Wikipedia:Peer review/Olga Rudge/archive1
Olga Rudge[edit]
Olga Rudge had a spell on FAC here [1] where she was more or less ignored. One objection which was not actionable, and a couple of half hearted suggestions she came here - so here she is. What do you think? - all comments welcome Giano | talk 13:00, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
- Needs more sources, but you knew I was going to say that. The lead should be two full paragraphs; expand it a bit to summarize more of the most important things about her. The early life section isn't written nearly as well as the rest. It's choppy. As it stands it could be better as one whole cohesive paragraph, but it could be expanded a bit too. The first question that comes up is did her parents divorce, or just live in different places? Is there any more info on how she came to be a great violinist? As it is now, we just know she studied under one guy and then is suddenly a great violinist. Who says she's great by then anyway? The rest is good until the last paragraph of the first section in 'Alone in Venice'. We just finish talking about the daughter and then jump into Venice being tough to live in. Where do you know the epitaph from? Was it written in English or Italian? With those additions/changes the structure should be clean enough that it will pass if no major objections can't be found. A violinist will never draw as much interest from editors as a pop culture controversy, so you may have to ask people to review it specifically when you nominate it at FAC next. - Taxman Talk 00:17, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
- The writing I can manage, finding more sources? That will be harder, I think what is listed is probably all there are, she is not very well documented at all - that's why I chose to do her, to see what I could dig up - perhaps there is just not enough information to make a FA. If only she had put a few rings through her nose and and snorted a few lines - it would be so much easier! Giano | talk 07:28, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
- If that's all there is, then that's fine, just make sure there aren't any other significant ones. Various large library databases could help you find some more decent ones that you could get on an inter-library loan. Wouldn't books on Pound cover her some too? Even if other books have short mentions they help balance out the potential POV that a source just on her might have. I don't think you need to expand the article much at all, just verify the information from additional sources and make sure they don't differ on significant points. - Taxman Talk 15:53, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
- How legit are foreign (ie Italian) language references? Giano | talk 16:21, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
- Very, as long as they meet the same quality guidelines. I believe WP:V and Wikipedia:Reliable sources have guidelines on them. Basically it's a little more difficult to verify them because a native speaker has to get a hold of the source, but for major languages that's not a problem. In short, English sources are preferred because of that extra difficulty involved verifying other language sources, but high quality sources from other languages can be very valuable, especially where English sources aren't available. - Taxman Talk 17:48, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
- How legit are foreign (ie Italian) language references? Giano | talk 16:21, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
- If that's all there is, then that's fine, just make sure there aren't any other significant ones. Various large library databases could help you find some more decent ones that you could get on an inter-library loan. Wouldn't books on Pound cover her some too? Even if other books have short mentions they help balance out the potential POV that a source just on her might have. I don't think you need to expand the article much at all, just verify the information from additional sources and make sure they don't differ on significant points. - Taxman Talk 15:53, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
- The writing I can manage, finding more sources? That will be harder, I think what is listed is probably all there are, she is not very well documented at all - that's why I chose to do her, to see what I could dig up - perhaps there is just not enough information to make a FA. If only she had put a few rings through her nose and and snorted a few lines - it would be so much easier! Giano | talk 07:28, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks for the help. OK - It will take a few days to lay my hands on some further references, but the page will becme far more musical as a result. I'm sure on one of my FAs somewhere, or perhaps someone else's there was an onjection because a couple of Italian reference books were in the list - perhaps that's all changed now - One can't keep up these days! What do you think of the extended lead? Giano | talk 19:20, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
- The lead is good. Don't necessarily add more material unless it needs it. Make sure to keep it in proper balance to the important information about her. As far as foreign language sources we relatively recently hacked out the consensus on that, but even then, not every FAC commentor knows all the rules, and may sometimes simply be wrong. If there are no English sources that is a problem, but as long as there is a balance people have agreed that the better the source, the more reason to include it, whatever language it is in. - Taxman Talk 16:14, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
- I've thought for a while it was a little light on her musical side, on its original FAC someone wanted it merged with Ezra Pound claiming OIga a was not notable in her own right - while that (IMO) is rubbish, a little more detail about her own career would not come amiss to prevent that claim being remade. More information could be given on the relationship with her daughter, but as the daughter is still alive I want to cut a fine line between necessary act and scandal mongering - without losing human interest - difficult. I've ordered a book, all we need now is the Italian and British postal service to display a greater efficiency and co-operation than is normal! Your point of asking people "to review it specifically when you nominate it at FAC" - I thought that was frowned upon - spamming or whatever it's called - I've hesitated before even dropping subtle hints to my closes friends here. Thanks for the help Giano | talk 16:30, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
- Well FAC isn't a vote, so it's not quite as much of a problem as say RfA or whatever, but of course don't ask 15+ people or something. I've gotten say 20+ requests to review articles, and I usually accomodate them when I can. If you ask for honest appraisal of the article that helps too, and If you get it beyond the first one or two commentors, for whatever reason you'll attract more. - Taxman Talk 00:15, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- I read this a couple of days ago and reviewed the FAC nomination. I think JoaoRicardo's comment about merging with Ezra Pound was misinterpreted. Most of the article is spent discussing her relationship to Pound (how many paragraphs do not have the word "Pound" in it?) rather than Rudge as an independent person (eg. Relationship of Ezra Pound and Olga Rudge). I can see this is not an easy article to write and will require a lot more work than the more common (core) topics which have many potential sources. There are some sources on Rudge herself but you may have better luck picking pieces out of Pound-related sources (but that probably won't help the Pound-POV of Rudge). Anyways, at this point the article appears well on its way to FA status. --maclean25 06:04, 11 March 2006 (UTC)