Wikipedia:Peer review/Sholay/archive1

Sholay[edit]

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This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review, looking for all kinds of suggestions. Specifically, content improvement, and prose enhancement suggestions will be highly helpful.

Thanks, Dwaipayan (talk) 04:35, 20 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Dharmadhyaksha

I did not understand this line; "Also, a set of jail was constructed outdoor near Rajkamal Studio in Bombay, and uniformity of natural lighting was maintained in film sequences." Are they supposed to be different sentences?
"Kuthe Kamine, Main Tera Khoon Peejaunga". Not worth noting?
Not much is written about the comedy scenes. "Angrej Ke Jamane Ke Jailor", the Mausi-Jai wedding proposal scene, Veru water tank scene, Soorma Bhopali's scenes are kinda considered quite popular in comedies. Maybe not as much as other fight sequences or other comedy scenes from other films of that era.
I don't know if this could be added; but the 1991 film 100 Days has a song "Gabbar Singh Ye Kehkar Gaya, Jo Dar Gaya, Wo Mar Gaya". Maybe there are many such examples, but then one or two could go in.
Isn't the title track part of soundtrack, old or new?

Other than that i don't have any comments on the current content. But i have some stuff which you guys can probably verify from reliable sources and then add them. All these things i have heard from other people and are analogies and could easily be made-up stuff. So not sure. I also don't know where you will look for it; but maybe the books on this film could have them.
- In the train sequence, there is a scene where Jai is in the last compartment, kinda open. A dacoit shoots a bullet and Jai ducks down. The bullet hits a small poster on the compartment. The train and the horse-riding dacoit are still moving and second bullet comes which again Jai dodges by ducking and the bullet hits the same poster at that same spot again. Its said that dacoit's good aim is shown through this scene. A closeup of the poster also follows indicating that this wasn't some fluke shot but most probably written that way. (Ofcourse, one could say that the dacoit was dumb enought to not change his aim such that Jai wouldn't escape it.)
- Same train sequence. Jai/Veru shoots a dacoit and the dacoit falls down from his horse. But the horse is still shown running with same speed. I don't remember now, but i guess this is shown more than once. It kinda indicates the loyalty of that horse towards its master; even if he is dead, the horse still follows the train. Also, the time for which the running horses are shown is quite considerable and not like something that goes between the shots. (Ofcourse, one could say that the horse was not loyal at all and did not even care if his master was dead or what.)
- The scene of Jai's funeral shows Radha in background looking at the pyre from a window on first floor of the house. The frame shows two windows on the wall, one already closed and the second one through which she is seeing the pyre. She then closes this second window also. The first closed window represents her life with her husband which is over and now this second part with Jai also ends.

§§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 10:02, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Dharmadhyaksha

As a summary response to your input, I have a feeling we can have a section named "Sequences" or "imagery", or, "notable sequences". In this section, famous scenes can be discussed. Problem is of course references. In newspapers, and some books, we have discussions on some of the scenes. I think we should start that sequence in a sandbox, and let it grow there, even if in a haphazard way. Once we reach a substantial size, the section should be incorporated into the article.
On the three anecdotal imagery that you listed at the end, I doubt we have any reference for those. I read Anupama Chopra's book a few years ago (and have lost the book now), and don't remember anything mentioned about those.
On the song from 100 Days, firstly thanks for reminding the song! I completely forgot that song. However, I don't think we can add that song. There are so many references to sequences from Sholay, some even more notable (such as Kajol doing a Gabbar Singh in Baazigar), that including one and excluding others would be difficult. A summary that Sholay is repeatedly referred to in later-day movie/TV shows etc is there in Legacy section.
In summary, IMO, we may build up a "Notable sequences" section. What say?--Dwaipayan (talk) 15:28, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
here is the sandbox for developing "Notable sequences" section. If it looks promising, we would include it.--Dwaipayan (talk) 21:17, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am not too sure that this is gong to be possible. These kinds of things always balloon out of control as everyone wants to add their own favorite scenes and homages. "I like the suicide scene re-enactment in HAHK", etc..etc... There is room in the cast section for more one or two line descriptions of minor characters and scenes like I added for the jailer. BollyJeff | talk 01:08, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am more agreeable with Bollyjeff's opinion, especially after I started the sandbox. Such a compilation of scenes probably would get out of control, or, at least, become very large in size. Even then, keeping the sandbox alive for now, in case some other suggestion comes up.--Dwaipayan (talk) 01:28, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well sure. You guys decide. It was just a thought. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 07:10, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Redtigerxyz's comments

Casting: Mention Sanjeev Kumar's love for Hema, which is also mentioned in the context Dharmendra playing Veeru
Censor Board also changed the ending. In the original, Thakur kills Gabbar. In the current format, Thakur hands him to the police. Not mentioned.

There is a section called "Alternate versions" that has this. BollyJeff | talk 23:26, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Characters and dialogues of the film continue to be referred to and parodied in popular culture" and "Major and minor characters continue to be used in commercials, promos, films and sit coms." Characters repeated.
"In the years that followed, Sholay has received more honors..." goes in Legacy, not awards IMO. Not really awards.
Themes digresses in some places. Talk about borrowing from Western genre is more about inspiration (Origin 2nd para is similar). "The character of dacoit Gabbar singh ..." is more about reception than themes.
Missing the iconic "But the showpiece of the set was Amjad Khan's Gabbar Singh whose terror, it is rumoured, is still invoked by mothers to put their children to sleep" http://web.archive.org/web/20110805124020/http://www.bfi.org.uk/features/imagineasia/guide/poll/india/01_sholay.html

Put where Gabbar is discussed.Redtigerxyz ^Talk 03:49, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not really sure what you are asking for. Maybe a slight amount of repeat is necessary to set context in another section? Feel free to make some changes yourself. BollyJeff | talk 01:05, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

the initial release was 188 minute, and directors cut 205 minute. Then what is this 198 minute DVD version? Is it a typo?--Dwaipayan (talk) 03:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There is some more investigation needed here. Open source 1, click on Video and Feature. Under video it has 205 and 188, but under feature it has 198 by Eros. I thought that source 26 explained the statement in this section, but I don't see that now. More digging needed. I hope you like the new poster. I really wanted one that actually said the word Sholay. BollyJeff | talk 12:57, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

These two sources [1] [2] speak about 204 and 198, the former backing up text from this (alternative versions) section, and the latter implying that 188 is wrong and 198 is correct. Of course, these sources may not be usable under WP:RS. BollyJeff | talk 15:20, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I think one eighty eight minutes is wrong, it should one ninety eight minutes. I just checked the youtube version of Sholay, it is 198:25 minutes.--Dwaipayan (talk) 15:45, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So what is this from the BBFC link? "Video 188m 28s Orson Video 16/12/1988"? BollyJeff | talk 15:54, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, really don't know. But the film runs for 198 minutes, I just saw it in youtube. And the 198 minute version does not have Gabbar getting killed, so cannot be the director's cut. Indeed it makes more sense that Gabbar getting killed and a few additional scenes (Sachin-killing, family massacre etc) would take about 5-6 minutes rather than 16 minutes.--Dwaipayan (talk) 16:04, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ok so, BBFC shows "three" runtimes!--Dwaipayan (talk) 16:05, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that BBFC page kind of explains this, "When a film is transferred to video the running time will be shorter by approximately 4% due to the differing number of frames per second.". So perhaps the non-directors cut was 198 minutes, and got shorter to 188 minutes when transferred to video. Then again came back to 198 minutes when done on DVD? Because the BBFC page also says that "When submitted to the BBFC the work had a running time of 198m 6s." This is a really weird problem :)--Dwaipayan (talk) 16:22, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Congrats on everyone who was working on elevating the article. I also think it s good to archive the URL's to avoid link rotting. Kailash29792 (talk) 11:23, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]