Wikipedia:Peer review/Up Where We Belong/archive1
Up Where We Belong[edit]
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I've listed this article for peer review because the backstory of this song was not being told on Wikipedia before I posted my revision. The number of sources that had bits of information to contribute to the writing of the updated article was far greater than I had anticipated when I started the research, and I felt that the amount of detail to the story and the extensive number of citations necessary to back up all of it made it a much more interesting read than most would imagine. I'd appreciate any suggestions for improvement that people have to offer so that I have a sense of whether or not I should seek GA or FA status.
Thanks, Danaphile (talk) 00:28, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
- Updated/corrected infobox (easier than listing here). See Template:Infobox song#Parameters. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:11, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
- There are a couple of MOS issues that might be checked. MOS:ELLIPSIS recommends three unspaced dots with a non-breaking space before and a space after ("jumping up and down
… After a difficult battle", "Well ... perhaps"). Also, some uses of quotes within quotes are confusing: "'I was so moved, I was hollering out loud with joy, jumping up and down … After a difficult battle with drugs and alcohol, Joe was in total command once again. I knew at that moment that I would sing with Joe.'", "'I suggested to Joel that I sing on that film in a duet with Joe Cocker.'" – it seems that only one person is being quoted. I added|type=musicto the Listen templates and set the second one to|help=no; change as you see fit. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:45, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
- Some of the refs may not be considered reliable sources for WP articles. Sites that users may edit should be replaced: tv.com, discogs.com, secondhandsongs.com. Also, ref formats should be consistent – Billboard appears as "billboard.com", "Billboard", "Billboard". According to Template:Cite book#Publisher, "Inc.", "Ltd.", etc., are usually not included. Template:Cite web#Publisher includes "Do not use the publisher parameter for the name of a work (e.g. a book, encyclopedia, newspaper, magazine, journal, website)". AllMusic, Rolling Stone, etc., should use
|website=or|work=. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:35, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you so much for the time you're giving to this. So far I've replaced tv.com and discogs.com. The secondhand songs website was all I could find for those two artists. They were listed by someone else, and I was just trying to accommodate their additions. What do people do when there's not a good way to cite something that's not that crucial to the article--just delete it? —Danaphile (talk) 01:18, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
- If you're considering a GAN/FAC, material that doesn't meet the policies and guidelines should be removed. WP:SONGCOVER addresses when to include other renditions. Basically, all versions of a song are usually not noteworthy – only those that have been discussed by a RS should be added. Most of references for the covers in the article are individual album liner notes, which may only list the song. AllMusic lists many different artists[1], but BeBe & CeCe may be the only one actually discussed: "one of the first commercially available Christian single records", and "One day Tammy Faye Bakker was in a record store and heard Joe Cocker and Jennifer Warnes's love song "Up Where We Belong" and thought it would be a good song for BeBe and CeCe to record. After she presented the idea to them, BeBe met with Larnelle Harris", etc.[2] —Ojorojo (talk) 17:35, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
- I've added in the Winans story, so thanks. I'm wondering if the issue of having covers listed that aren't notable is more of an issue than it used to be. "Like a Rolling Stone" has YouTube listings to cite most of the artists who've recorded it, and when it received its FA star back in 2010 most of those citations weren't even there. I'm thinking I'll go through GAN when this process is complete, so if that's something they're going to point out as needing to go, then I'm fine with that. Otherwise, I think I've covered everything you've mentioned so far. Thanks again. —Danaphile (talk) 01:12, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
- Here are a couple of rather recent WT:SONGS discussions regarding covers: June 2017 and August 2017. Most of the LARS youtube links seem contrary to WP:VIDEOLINK (no copyright clearance, unlike Vevo). BTW, Template:Cite AV media notes is available for citing liner notes. This takes care of most of the little stuff (I caught a few stragglers – change as you see fit). It's definitely a GA – good work. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:05, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
- The song discussions have helped me feel more certain about the need to remove the covers. Thanks for that and the template suggestion. I will be putting it to use quite a bit, I'm sure. Huge appreciation for your edits and the time and support you've given me. I can't thank you enough. —Danaphile (talk) 22:15, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
- Here are a couple of rather recent WT:SONGS discussions regarding covers: June 2017 and August 2017. Most of the LARS youtube links seem contrary to WP:VIDEOLINK (no copyright clearance, unlike Vevo). BTW, Template:Cite AV media notes is available for citing liner notes. This takes care of most of the little stuff (I caught a few stragglers – change as you see fit). It's definitely a GA – good work. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:05, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
- I've added in the Winans story, so thanks. I'm wondering if the issue of having covers listed that aren't notable is more of an issue than it used to be. "Like a Rolling Stone" has YouTube listings to cite most of the artists who've recorded it, and when it received its FA star back in 2010 most of those citations weren't even there. I'm thinking I'll go through GAN when this process is complete, so if that's something they're going to point out as needing to go, then I'm fine with that. Otherwise, I think I've covered everything you've mentioned so far. Thanks again. —Danaphile (talk) 01:12, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
- If you're considering a GAN/FAC, material that doesn't meet the policies and guidelines should be removed. WP:SONGCOVER addresses when to include other renditions. Basically, all versions of a song are usually not noteworthy – only those that have been discussed by a RS should be added. Most of references for the covers in the article are individual album liner notes, which may only list the song. AllMusic lists many different artists[1], but BeBe & CeCe may be the only one actually discussed: "one of the first commercially available Christian single records", and "One day Tammy Faye Bakker was in a record store and heard Joe Cocker and Jennifer Warnes's love song "Up Where We Belong" and thought it would be a good song for BeBe and CeCe to record. After she presented the idea to them, BeBe met with Larnelle Harris", etc.[2] —Ojorojo (talk) 17:35, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you so much for the time you're giving to this. So far I've replaced tv.com and discogs.com. The secondhand songs website was all I could find for those two artists. They were listed by someone else, and I was just trying to accommodate their additions. What do people do when there's not a good way to cite something that's not that crucial to the article--just delete it? —Danaphile (talk) 01:18, 13 February 2018 (UTC)