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August 9

David Collenette

I just noticed that in the David Collenette article, and I would assume others, he is referred to as "a Canadian retired politician." Wouldn't that be better worded as "a retired Canadian politician."? CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 05:03, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, see Adjective#Adjective order. -- Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:48, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 13:06, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Both Canadian and retired are adjectives, so, while "retired Canadian" is the preferred order, it is in no way a required order. See adjective order. μηδείς (talk) 15:51, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Further, the list Dodger cited supports the original version. #6, origin, "Canadian". #8, qualifier, "retired". But, while "Canadian retired" is the preferred order, it is in no way required. --69.159.9.219 (talk) 21:00, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"retired" isn't a qualifier in the sense used in the list. A "retired politician" is not a distinct class of politician in the way that a "rocking chair" is a distinct class of chair. From a bit of messing about with what sounds idiomatic, I'd say it's roughly equivalent to "age" - "a beautiful retired politician", "a fat retired politician", but "a retired black politician", "a retired Canadian politician". Smurrayinchester 07:45, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"Retired Canadian politician" is a tiny, tiny bit ambiguous. It leaves open the possibility that he hasn't retired from the (ig)noble profession in another country. Actually, now that I realize he's an interloper, "English-born Canadian retired politician" works better. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:56, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

OK this is making my brain hurt. In what variety of English is "Canadian retired politician" proper wording. It sounds very strange and somewhat discordant to me and the few others I showed it to. I changed it earlier but I did notice at the time that it could be confusing. So instead I changed it again. The first sentence could still be a bit ambiguous but it is clarified in the second. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 04:59, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"Retired Canadian politician" implies that the gentleman could have retired from some other profession, such as teaching, and in his retirement became a politician. The alternative posed by the OP, "Canadian retired politician", describes him as firstly, Canadian, and secondly, as a retired politician. I'm assuming that the second meaning is appropriate for the individual, and it is therefore the correct version. Akld guy (talk) 05:54, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Adjectives qualify their nouns. So "retired Canadian politician" indicates someone who has retired from politics and has Canadian nationality. Now, if there was a discussion about politicians from different countries who have retired from politics, "Canadian retired politician" might be the correct form. 92.23.52.160 (talk) 12:12, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Just thought that "Canadian politician (retired)" might work. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 16:37, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I stand by the original version. There is more of a difference between "retired politician" and "politician" than there is between "Canadian politician" and "politician". Therefore the adjective "retired" is the most essential one, the "qualifier" in the language of Adjective#Adjective order, and it belongs next to the noun. "Retired Canadian politician" just sounds weird, and "is a Canadian politician (retired)" is worse. --69.159.9.219 (talk) 20:26, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Your original version, though slightly awkward-looking, makes more sense - because he's not a retired Canadian, he's a retired politician. He remains Canadian. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:06, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That's a straw man. Nobody "retires" from their nationality or citizenship. Your argument might make a tad more sense if we were discussing "a former Canadian politician". It is possible to be a former Canadian as well as a former politician, although nobody would ever take the "former" in "a former Canadian politician" to refer to anything but "politician" unless the context demanded a wider interpretation. And even then, saying that someone is "a former Canadian" does a terrible injustice to the reader, who will undoubtedly be wanting to know not just what his nationality was but also what it is now. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:27, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ted Cruz did. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:39, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

^{[citation needed]} -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:02, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ted Cruz is a former Canadian. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:55, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, exactly. A former Canadian. Not a "retired" Canadian. Being a Canadian or any other nationality is not a profession or occupation from which one can retire. One can relinquish one's citizenship, but one does not retire from it. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:03, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Depends on how you interpret "retire". It actually means "to retreat".[1] And there's no question Ted Cruz has retreated from Canada. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:09, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Have you considered retirement from the reference desks? That might be a retreat for you, but a definite treat for us. :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 05:42, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Somebody has solved the problem by changing the article to "former Canadian politician". Or have they :)) Akld guy (talk) 21:45, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That was the OP, me. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 05:27, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, how about "is an English-born Canadian and a former (or retired) politician"? CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 06:19, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've been making fun of "former Italian prime minister" for so long, I was delighted when it appeared that India might get one (Sonia Gandhi being a former Italian). —Tamfang (talk) 10:43, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]