Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 March 18
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March 18
[edit]Who is "the latter" when several are mentioned?
[edit]I thought I understood "the latter" to be the last thing mentioned, but in The Big Short (film) I see "... Shipley and Geller unsuccessfully attempt to sue the ratings companies, with the latter electing to move to Charlotte, North Carolina to raise a family." If it had not said "to raise a family" I would have understood that the ratings companies for some reason moved to North Carolina. What is the usage rule for "the latter?" Edison (talk) 15:53, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
- The latter is always the second of two, and only of two. If more than two are mentioned, it is a grammatical error: it should then be the last. It works the same way as saying the elder of two siblings, but the eldest of three. 109.150.174.93 (talk) 16:19, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
- The sentence is basically correct but not ideally phrased, since you not unreasonably associated "the latter" with the ratings companies (and presumably "the former" with the plaintiffs). I'd divide it into two independent clauses: "Shipley and Geller unsuccessfully attempt to sue the ratings companies, and Geller elects to move to ...". -- Elphion (talk) 16:26, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, in this case it is not an error of "latter" use, because it is referring to a group of exactly two. But it is awkward, and maybe a garden path sentence. A minimal change fix would be "...with the latter [guy/person/character] electing to move...". SemanticMantis (talk) 18:02, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
- Does the lead in Garden path sentence article contain a error, or is it being self-referential? It refers to "The old man the boat," as a grammatically correct sentence ... -- which is not a "sentence" (or is it?). --2600:1004:B06D:A71E:1920:9331:C647:963C (talk) 21:18, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
- Keep reading. It's explained lower down. The very fact that you query the grammaticality of this (as it turns out) perfectly correct sentence makes it an ideal candidate for a garden path sentence. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 21:24, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
- You have to recall that "to man" is a verb - meaning to put a crew into a boat (or similar). 109.150.174.93 (talk) 08:56, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
- Does the lead in Garden path sentence article contain a error, or is it being self-referential? It refers to "The old man the boat," as a grammatically correct sentence ... -- which is not a "sentence" (or is it?). --2600:1004:B06D:A71E:1920:9331:C647:963C (talk) 21:18, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, in this case it is not an error of "latter" use, because it is referring to a group of exactly two. But it is awkward, and maybe a garden path sentence. A minimal change fix would be "...with the latter [guy/person/character] electing to move...". SemanticMantis (talk) 18:02, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
- The sentence is basically correct but not ideally phrased, since you not unreasonably associated "the latter" with the ratings companies (and presumably "the former" with the plaintiffs). I'd divide it into two independent clauses: "Shipley and Geller unsuccessfully attempt to sue the ratings companies, and Geller elects to move to ...". -- Elphion (talk) 16:26, 18 March 2016 (UTC)