Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 508

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Greetings!

I am writing this question about a problem of a redirect page of Kane. Now, this page (If you normally type it in the search box of Wikipedia page), would show under the heading of Fictional Characters that 'Kane Family, family in the Kane Chronicles book series by Rick Riordan'. But it originally directs to some fictional family of American Broadcasting Company (ABC) whereas the 'real' article should be about the Egyptian myth family, The Kanes. The main characters here are Sadie Kane and Carter Kane.

My Problem

The redirect page has wrong information about the article. Please advice me to change it or if it really is necessary. It provides confusion among the users who would type this title in future. Amy2563 (talk) 15:48, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Amy2563. Thank you for noticing the error. I have corrected it by adding another item to Kane, so that there are separate items for each of the fictional Kane families, each of which wikilink to the proper article. In the future, when you see such an error, please correct it yourself. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 16:42, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't know how to correct those. Would you give me any guide about how to rectify them? Amy2563 (talk) 17:07, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Amy2563, I suggest that you go to Kane and click the "View history" tab at the top. There, you can study the series of edits I made in response to your question. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 18:10, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

continology

Hi, I just added a new title under the name of Continology, Registered this year,,It is the neo science for creating continents. My name is professor Hala Mohamed El Chamaa. may I know why the title has been deleted and how it can be added Hala Mohamed Chamaa (talk) 16:40, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean by "registered this year" with regard to a "neo" science for creating continents. However, if the ideas about creating continents are your own, and have not been published in mainstream journals, they are original research. Your article on Continology has been deleted three times, including as being promotional (of your own ideas) and as having been invented by you. I haven't seen any of the deleted versions, but I am inclined to agree with the deletion. If you really think that your ideas should be documented in Wikipedia (and it isn't our job to document new ideas that haven't been published elsewhere), you could try submitting the draft to Articles for Creation for comments by experienced reviewers, which reduces the likelihood that your draft will be deleted again, because it will probably be declined rather than deleted. However, I don't even encourage you to do that, because I see very little chance that it will get constructive comments from the reviewers (unless the comment to drop it is considered constructive), and the review process is backlogged and staffed by volunteers. Those are my thoughts for now. Stop trying to create an article about a concept that you just recently invented. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:51, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Welcome to the Teahouse, Hala Mohamed Chamaa. A core content policy here is that we do not publish original research. In addition, we do not publish articles that promote a neologism. Only if a topic has received significant coverage in reliable, independent sources is it eligible for a Wikipedia article. Since you created this concept, you have a conflict of interest and should be very cautious about promoting it on Wikipedia. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 16:55, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, This is yes an original research by my organization, for the real concept of continology, the science for creating continents, It is registered in Egypt by court order and the public notary. My company, is headed by a governor and a dean of faculty to generate training materials for trainees. I resigned from the University in abstainment from the violence that has occurred in Egypt to generate useful concepts away of life - I also lost track of the original article that I wroteHala Mohamed Chamaa (talk) 17:11, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

You know what my evaluation is very negative too - Einstein did not follow the order, nor gates. You know what, I will delete my name from Wikipedia in protest. Just as every service that we evaluate, and as a lead evaluator: I do not recommend you to any organization.Hala Mohamed Chamaa (talk) 17:47, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Hello again, Hala Mohamed Chamaa. Your contributions to Wikipedia are irrevocable and you cannot delete your name. If you are unhappy with Wikipedia, just stop using this website. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 18:06, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
I have combined the three sections you created into one, Hala Mohamed Chamaa, since they are all about the same topic. Cordless Larry (talk) 18:18, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Hi Hala Mohamed Chamaa. Since you are a scientist, you must be an innately analytical person, and be highly trained in complex conceptual classification, use of premises, conceptual frameworks for thinking about things, etc. Because of that, I can only assume you never familiarized yourself with the concept of what an encyclopedia is, before embarking on this article writing process. If you do so now, then you will come to understand precisely why an article on a new concept / new science / an up and coming thing, has no place in an encyclopedia—why it cannot be a proper topic for an article by the very nature of the type of reference work Wikipedia is. In short, an encyclopedia is a compendium of mainstream knowledge, and so proper subjects of encyclopedia article entries are topics of mainstream knowledge, as reflected by reliable and independent sources out in the world having previously published significant material about the topic, sufficient to demonstrate that. You are like a person coming to an atlas project and crying foul because they won't accept a word definition for publication (because it is not a map!); to a dictionary project that won't accept a map you submit (because it is not a word definition!). If you performed that investigation process of just what an encyclopedia is, and thereby inevitably reached that understanding of why an article on Continology could not belong here now, you would ineluctably understand why your statement about having a negative opinion of Wikipedia based on the deletion is patently illogical and incorrect and something you should be chagrined at having said. I expect no less of a scientist.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 20:03, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Question about the Teahouse

Hi what you really do on teahouse. Mikael — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikael Phillips (talk • contribs) 17:58, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

As it happens, Mikael Phillips, this question has been asked and answered below. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:30, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Hello Mikael Phillips. Do you have any connection to Troy 9876? If so, please be careful to comply with our policies and guidelines, especially regarding use of multiple accounts. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 22:19, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Will removing a section affect more than just that section and its placement in the table of contents?

Hello, Location-based_service has a section of Marketing Best Practices that I'd like to delete entirety as it has already been flagged and seems both impossibly opinionated and unsalvageable. Before doing so, I want to make sure I don't need to make any changes beyond that deletion and its pointer in the page's Table of Contents since I've never removed an entire section before and don't want to leave some loose end from it. Thanks. BologniousMonk (talk) 00:35, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Maybe I have missed something, but it appears to me that if you delete the Location-Based Marketing Best Practices section, which I agree is poor, you will delete that section. Do not try to do anything to the Table of Contents. The Table of Contents is generated automagically from the section headings, and deleting the section from the article body will delete its entry from the Table of Contents. (If you delete the section and have done any unintended harm, you can always undo your own edit, but I don't see a risk.) Is there a remaining question? Robert McClenon (talk) 02:43, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
That's exactly what I was hoping the answer was going to be. Thank, Robert.

BologniousMonk (talk) 00:45, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

DRN question

i've filed a case and other users want to be added to the users involved. can i add users by just editing the case and adding the names to the "Users involved" section and opening a "Summary of dispute" section for every one of them? or is there a special template or sth for that action? --HamedH94 (talk) 03:48, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

solved! --HamedH94 (talk) 04:23, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Bigu (avoiding grains): rice radical.

On the page: "Bigu (avoiding grains)" and the last line of the heading; "Grains in Chinese Agriculture and Culture", is a popup (after clicking; rice radical 米) showing the character for rice (supply) being drawn. Is someone able to direct me to the source of this programme or app. of the character being drawn, please. "Stroke order animation" is the key phrase - I found, on rice radical 119 page. I was wondering on the animation's source in case there were more as they are easy to read for the sight sensitive. animations are a good learning tool. Or it may be outside Wikipedia's scope. Maproom|maproom has it correct. Thank you, I found the Chinese stroke animation software downloads via google chrome.:.Sudaama90 (talk) 01:17, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Hello Sudaama90 and welcome to the Teahouse! I believe the feature you're thinking about is the Hovercard, which is a Beta feature on Wikipedia, which lets you see the summary of another Wikipedia article by hovering your mouse above a page link. You can find the feature here. Adog104 Talk to me 02:25, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
I'm not entirely sure what you mean. The "rice radical" page you mentioned seems to be Radical 119, but there's no video of it being drawn there. Did you mean to ask if we could direct you to a video? That would be outside Wikipedia's scope, yes, unless the video was uploaded (with proper licensing) to Wikipedia or it's sister site, Wikimedia Commons. There doesn't seem to be a video about how to draw the "rice radical" (as Radical 119 is apparently sometimes called) on Wikipedia or Commons, so I would recommend a Google search for a video. -- Gestrid (talk) 05:42, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
Gestrid, I believe that the article being discussed is Bigu (avoiding grains), about a traditional Chinese medicine ritual. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:50, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
@Cullen328: He said something about "after clicking rice radical". The wikilink "rice radical" leads to Radical 119. -- Gestrid (talk) 06:13, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
rice
At Radical 119 I see the animation shown to the right. This must be what the OP means. Maproom (talk) 07:33, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
And, Sudaama90, if you click on that radical on this page, it takes you to the file's information page, which has a lot of information about the origin of the animation. --ColinFine (talk) 11:37, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

ColinFine|talk]] I'm sure that's good information but I couldn't find "file's information"..Sudaama90 (talk) 11:48, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Sudaama90, I mean the page File:米-order.gif, which has information about the origin of the .gif file which holds the animation. --ColinFine (talk) 17:21, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Sorry ColinFine|ColinFine, I know you mean that but I don't register my intelligence regards .gif file origin. I'll get help in person later. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sudaama90 (talk • contribs) 00:18, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Sudaama90, the page I directed you to says "This image is part of the C:Commons:Stroke Order Project(zh-de-ja), a project to create a complete set of images depicting the right stroke order". If you follow that link, it shows you which characters have so far been prepared, and what their work plan is. --ColinFine (talk) 10:47, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. I've got the Chinese Writing Master 4.0 downloaded, now I just have to figure how to use it.Sudaama90 (talk) 09:56, 25 July 2016 (UTC) FYI ColinFine; employing English phrases translated to Chinese in the ImTranslator popup, the Chinese Writing Master popup takes the first character from Imtranslater after shift a and shift c, immediately. One then removes the first radical(?), copy/pastes and continues for 10,000 characters, ImTranslators limit.Sudaama90 (talk) 10:33, 25 July 2016 (UTC).

Speedy Deletion

Speedy deletion nomination of Dr Repalle Shiva Praveen Kumar.

I have added a page for Mr.RS Praveen Kumar. Find the details in the below link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr_Repalle_Shiva_Praveen_Kumar

What should I do to avoid this. Please help.Catalogcits (talk) 12:35, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. As it said clearly in the notice on the page and in the notice on your user talk page, you must not remove the speedy deletion tag from a page you have created yourself; your attempt to delete the tag has been reverted. You need to read the various useful links which have been added to your user talk page, including WP:Your first article. --David Biddulph (talk) 12:43, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
I cannot help you much for that, that leave it to others, but you can refer WP:IWASTAGGED. Please note that you should not remove CSD tags. --NgYShung huh? 12:43, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Another link that you need to read is WP:Referencing for beginners. --David Biddulph (talk) 12:45, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
If you are confused about why the article is being regarded as promotional, Catalogcits, I suggest reviewing your use of non-neutral language such as "Dr Praveen Kumar breathed new life into Social Welfare Residential Schools by introducing P5 Model" and use of words such as "prestigious", which appears four times in the article. Cordless Larry (talk) 13:02, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Dr Repalle Shiva Praveen Kumar appears to be very popular today. Another article with the title R. S. Praveen Kumar was created today by different user and is likewise nominated for speedy deletion. Voceditenore (talk) 13:21, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

banned from live chat

Hi I did not sign out after being on the help chat the other day and I think that is why I am now banned. I believe my computer kept connecting. what can I do about this? I wanted to chat because I have a question about an article I made that was tagged for deletion (I accidently posted it before it was ready because I forgot about the sandbox) now the article is ok and I got a message saying it was reviewed however the "tagged for speedy deletion" box is still up. Will it go away? Help Stagehero (talk) 02:19, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

You are not banned. Why do you think that you are banned? You have logged on. (Do you think that you have been banned from IRC? I don't know anything about that.) The article that was tagged for speedy deletion is still tagged because an administrator needs to review the statement contesting the speedy deletion. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:55, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Thank you, yes it's the IRC that I am banned from, I have no idea how it works really, just that it won't allow me to connect to the help channel because it says I have been banned and I don't know how to ask them as it seems my communication has been cut off. Anyways, I will look into it some more. With regards to the article. Thank you for the clarification. I got an email message saying User:JTtheOG had reviewed the article but I saw no change. I guess they are not an admin. That's what i was confused about. I will just be patient then. Stagehero (talk) 03:02, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Hello Stagehero. According to WP:IRC, "Wikipedia IRC is not owned or controlled by Wikipedia/Wikimedia. It is a project run by volunteers of their own accord." Accordingly, here at the Teahouse, we have no access to information about your situation there. I will say that I have been a very active Wikipedia editor for over seven years and have never once used IRC. Participating there is not at all necessary to being a Wikipedia editor. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:35, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Hello Cullen328 Thank you I seem to have it figured out. IRC is handy to get a quick response but this is pretty quick too.Stagehero (talk) 15:25, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Citing none online sources Vajrasati Yoga

I want to beef up my citations for my page Vajrasati Yoga but many of the refs I have are in offline magazines that have no corresponding online url. How do I reference these? Thanks! MrAliMcCall (talk) 14:56, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Hello, MrAliMcCall. You reference an off-line source exactly the same way as an on-line one, but omit the URL. The other information (title, date, publication etc) are all required. Please see referencing for beginners. --ColinFine (talk) 15:51, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
You can also cite magazines by using this template citation. There are also examples mentioned below for different types of offline sources which you can refer. Ayub407talk 15:53, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Brilliant, thank you! MrAliMcCall (talk) 16:01, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Changing a redirect/deleting redirect

Hello. I have written a page on RAF Pembroke Dock. There is a redirect which takes you to the Pembroke Dock page about the town (which has a short paragraph about RAF Pembroke Dock). On Wikipedia:Redirect, it says to swap the redirect for my new page, but doesn't say how to do it.

I could just copy and past into the redirect, but then the history will not come over as well. What is the best way of removing the Redirect and getting the article out there? (NB - the article is in my sandbox, so at the moment there is no conflict over names). Thank you. The joy of all things (talk) 13:19, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

The joy of all things, When you get redirected to a page, there will be text at the top of the page saying in this case "Redirected from RAF Pembroke Dock". If you click on the link there, it will take you to the redirect page so that you may edit it. Otherwise, you can add "&redirect=no" at the end of the url to bypass the automatic redirect and see the actual editable redirect page, such as in https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=RAF_Pembroke_Dock&redirect=no. Hope this helps. TimothyJosephWood 15:30, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
But, Timothyjosephwood, The joy of all things said that they have the new article in their sandbox, so you are implicitly inviting them to copy and paste. This is usually not the best way to do things, because it loses the history. In this case, since nobody but The joy of all things has edited the draft, it would be acceptable to copy and paste it; but it would be neater to ask at requested moves (since you are wanting to move it over an existing page). --ColinFine (talk) 15:37, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Ah, good point on keeping the history. I'm just gonna go ahead and be WP:BOLD, as recommended by WP:RM, and move it myself. The article in sandbox looks dang good, and I see no reason for it to be controversial. TimothyJosephWood 15:43, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Ooooh. Well I feel dumb. Apparently I don't have permission to overwrite the redirect via move. Hmm. TimothyJosephWood 15:50, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Yes, sorry - I tried the overwrite via move, hence why I asked for help from the Teahouse. I can always put in a Technical Request move, it's because it involves possibly deleting the redirect that I have become confused. Thanks anyway, it's all good learning for me. The joy of all things (talk) 15:53, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Yes, Technical Request seems to be the best route. Apparently we're all learning. TimothyJosephWood 15:57, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and moved the sandbox article over the redirect. Deor (talk) 17:51, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Difference between sandbox draft and the draft space?

I'm trying to edit an article and got a message asking me to stop submitting my draft from the sandbox and instead send it from the draft space. What is the difference between the two and where can I find each?Soccerlad604 (talk) 17:43, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Soccerlad604: the problem was not your submitting a draft from your sandbox; that is a normal and acceptable thing to do. The problem was that you had created two versions, one in your sandbox and one as a draft, and both had been submitted. Your sandbox version is here, the draft version is here. Maproom (talk) 18:22, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for asking. When a draft is submitted from a sandbox, the reviewer usually moves it from the sandbox into draft space. As Maproom says, there is nothing wrong with submitting from the sandbox, but the reviewer will often move it into draft space. In this case, as is noted, you already have two versions. You need to select which version to work on, and either ignore the other version or delete it. The references in the version in draft space are in better shape, and I would suggest that you work on that version. Both versions currently read non-neutrally, but the version in draft space is, in my opinion, the better version to work on making more neutral. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:45, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
If you want to have one deleted, you can put {{db-user}} on it to request that it be deleted. -- The Voidwalker Discuss 18:48, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
True. However, there is no need to request that a sandbox draft be deleted. It can simply be reused. My advice is to ignore or reuse the sandbox, but to work on Draft:PressReader. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:26, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Reddit AMAs as sources of info

How valid are Reddit AMAs done by people as sources of info that will be used for their respective articles? Verified Cactus (talk) 17:33, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi Verified Cactus, what are "Reddit AMAs"? Reddit is social media, thus it is not a generally acceptable source. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 18:26, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
AMA = "ask me anything". Either way, reddit is not a reliable source. shoy (reactions) 18:47, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Dodger67, AMAs are extended question and answer sessions between individuals of some particular note and Reddit users. Often these are persons of general interest such as celebrities, and take place on the main /r/AMA sub-reddit, a community dedicated to this format. Sometimes they are of particular relevance to a community, such as prominent academics and scientists who regularly do AMAs on the /r/AskScience sub-reddit.
The larger of these communities, such as the two above, generally have established formal protocol for verifying that the individual doing the AMA is the person it is claimed to be, and not a representative or impostor. Smaller communities, such as /r/AskSocialScience, of which I've been an on-off moderator, verify identities more informally. So long as there is a process for identification/verification, these may very well arguably fall under the purview of WP:SELFSOURCE as social media. TimothyJosephWood 19:06, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
@Verified Cactus, Timothyjosephwood I agree, WP:SELFSOURCE is applicable, as an AMA is basically an interview. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 19:39, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Fort A.P. Hill instead of Meisberger on the view history page

I just made some changes to the Fort A.P. Hill page and they showed up as Fort A.P. Hill instead of Meisberger. What did I do wrong? Meisberger (talk) 16:22, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi Meisberger. I am guessing that you looked at your contributions, rather than the actual history of the article, where the changes made are indeed shown as having been made by your account. When you are looking at your own, or someone else's contributions, the listings are of the pages edited by that person, and do not provide the name of who made the changes next to the individual entries because they are all by that person. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 16:30, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Fuhghettaboutit, thank you so much for explaining to me the difference. Your patience and understanding are most appreciated. Meisberger (talk) 16:40, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
@Meisberger: You're most welcome.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 21:37, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Question about Twinkle

How many days you have to wait to use twinkle? When will it show in your preferences? --ThunderFan109 (Thunder Up!) 18:15, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Once you are autoconfirmed, you will be able to use it. Ruslik_Zero 19:52, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
@Ruslik0: thanks man! Could you please hand me the rights so that way I can use it. Thanks! --ThunderFan109 (Thunder Up!) 20:15, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
I think you can wait one more day. Ruslik_Zero 20:16, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Okay thanks Ruslik. --ThunderFan109 (Thunder Up!) 23:09, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Was copyright violation cited

Hi My article was cited for copyright violation without any explanation on what was violated. All I now see is that page is under consideration. What can I do to resolve this? 203.181.31.24 (talk) 06:44, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Hello, IP editor, and welcome to the Teahouse. We would be much better placed to help if you could provide a link to the article concerned. Cordless Larry (talk) 06:49, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
The article, In Japanese, is here:

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A4%A7%E5%B1%B1%E5%AF%BA_(%E5%8D%83%E8%91%89%E7%9C%8C%E9%B4%A8%E5%B7%9D%E5%B8%82) 203.181.31.24 (talk) 06:52, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the Teahouse is specific to the English Wikipedia, so I don't think we can help you with this. Is there a help desk on the Japanese Wikipedia that you could ask at? Cordless Larry (talk) 09:28, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
The Japanese help desk is at ja:Wikipedia:利用案内. --David Biddulph (talk) 10:26, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
Cordless,

I will check. Maybe someone can help with how I can address this iisue? Talk to that claimant? 203.181.31.24 (talk) 10:16, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

I don't recall any of the Teahouse regulars being able to communicate in Japanese. I might be wrong, though. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:18, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
I am really new to this.
In general terms, what usually happens when someone cites a violation which is not specific? There is no suggestion for a remedy aside from deletion. Also, I see that there is a type of 'editing war'. Some are putting text back in and others are removing. Now it seems to be editing protected.

Who has the final say about this? 203.181.31.24 (talk) 10:41, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

You can read about the English Wikipedia's policy on copyright violations at Wikipedia:Copyright violations. Each language Wikipedia has its own rules, though, and there should be a similar page on the Japanese Wikipedia - ja:Wikipedia:著作権侵害への対処 if I have got the right inter-wiki link. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:47, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Recent event updates, to a biography- redacted . Reason un-understood

I added recent event updates, to a biography of living person namely (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piyush_Manush ) and my edits were mostly redacted with the comment - "Edited as per biography of living people and notability".

Not sure what this means . Can recent events not be added to the "biography of living person".

Thanks Venkat1001 (talk) 13:00, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Venkat1001. Of course recent events can be added if they are reliably sourced. But looking at Neechalkaran's edit to Piyush Manush, they have removed several paragraphs of extremely non-neutral text, and replaced them with a few sentences neutrally reporting what the sources say. It is possible that they have removed some material which could legitimately have been included: I haven't checked. But no Wikipedia article should ever contain text like "What else can be expected, when the official machinery is the culprit", unless it is directly quoting a cited reliable source. Please read WP:BLP and WP:NPOV, and WP:SOAPBOX. --ColinFine (talk)

article problem

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulating_the_regulators

what can i do??Mohammad Iqbal Ghori (President ICMAP) (talk) 12:06, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
  • Hello, Mohammad Iqbal Ghori (President ICMAP) and welcome to the Teahouse. As it says on the deletion page, it was a copyright violation, pasted from http://www.dawn.com/news/1232160, i.e. an article written by you, assuming your are editing under your real name. There are two problems. First we cannot republish copyright work. Secondly, we do not publish opinion pieces, so even if the text is not copyrighted. They are completely unsuitable for Wikipedia. Voceditenore (talk) 12:39, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

my mostly article published on somewhere else and i also want to upload those article here, but due to copyright restriction i'm not able to upload on Wikipedia what can i do kindly help me?Mohammad Iqbal Ghori (President ICMAP) (talk) 11:53, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

when i am creating an article page, i received a message about speedy deletion what does it mean kindly help me out from this. what is the easy way to upload an article on Wikipedia?Mohammad Iqbal Ghori (President ICMAP) (talk) 11:46, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

how to upload image?Mohammad Iqbal Ghori (President ICMAP) (talk) 11:24, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) your account has been blocked for repeated copyright violations and that is part of the problem you have run into. You appear to be trying to use Wikpedia to reprint your own essays/media articles about various non-notable topics. That is not what Wikipedia is about. Please read up on what an encylopedia is before applying to have your block lifted. Nthep (talk) 12:45, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
Mohammad Iqbal Ghori (President ICMAP). You have now been indefinitely blocked for multiple and persistent copyright violations and must now read all the linked policy pages in the warnings on your talk page. You will not be unblocked until you can show you understand them and undertake not to do this again. But, as I wrote above, you must also understand that Wikipedia does not publish opinion pieces, essays, or original thought and research, regardless of their copyright status. Those involve our core policies and they are not negotiable. Please read those policies on Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Verifiability. I suggest you start your own website if you wish to republish your articles which were previously published in Dawn. Voceditenore (talk) 13:03, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Page Deleted - Need help to understand why it was deleted and how to restore the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Akun_Sabharwal

this page was deleted and i dont understand why it was deleted. Need help to restore. Sureshnischal (talk) 11:07, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Hello, Sureshnischal, and welcome to the Teahouse. This has already been answered on your talk page. The article gave no credible indication that the subject meets our criteria for inclusion, called "Notability" for short. Akun Sabharwal was actually created by another editor, not you, unless you are also editing under the account User:Slu tsu. I note that the article about Mr. Sabharwal's wife Smita Sabharwal, IAS was created by you and deleted for the same reason in 2014. It was recreated under the title Smita Sabharwal by User:Split25 in 2015 and has all the hallmarks of a paid-for article. Voceditenore (talk) 13:29, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Need feedback on the page i created

Hey everyone, just signed up on Wikipedia and created my first page. I am trying to ad some Kurdish content, filmmakers, movies etc. just created my first page Safin Taki. Any feedback would be very much appreciated. I have received several messages regarding that my page might be deleted. So any feedback would be much appreciated Sthlm12345 (talk) 07:18, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Your article has no footnotes, only endnote references. I suggest that you move your article from article space to draft space, Draft:Safin Taki, and request the review of experienced editors at Articles for Creation, because you are correct that, as it is, it is likely to be tagged for deletion as an unsourced biography of a living person or nominated for Articles for Deletion. Robert McClenon (talk) 13:48, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

How do I get the Speedy Deletion notification off

How do i delete the Speedy deletion nomination on the Wiki Page of my professor. Ravindra Bhan. Also how do I convert this from a simple article to a biography page. thanks Siddharth Siddharths123 (talk) 06:34, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Hello, Siddharths123, and welcome to the Teahouse. Your article, Ravindra Bhan, has no references to sources that would indicate why the subject is notable. On Wikipedia, notability is demonstrated by significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the topic. Please see Help:Referencing for beginners on how to add references. If you are writing about your professor, you also have a conflict of interest, and should declare this by following the instructions at WP:DISCLOSE. Cordless Larry (talk) 06:53, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
You ask how to convert this from a simple article to a biography page. That isn't a real question in Wikipedia terms. An article about a person is a biography page. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:14, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
What you can do is to use Articles for Creation to ask for review by experienced editors and try to provide adequate references. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:14, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

New to Wikipedia and will appreciate any help

I am an independent writer and have interviewed an individual who is somewhat notable, (radio show host) and I have a draft in word I created with my notes, research and references and am wanting to create a new Wikipedia article about them. How difficult will this be and can someone review my draft before submitting? 2602:306:CC52:9590:151C:FAD:4CBD:8D51 (talk) 17:57, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

See Articles for Creation for the procedure by which you can create a draft article and have it reviewed by an experienced editor. Thank you for asking in advance how to have a draft reviewed. I suggest that you create an account, but unregistered editors are allowed to use Articles for Creation. Also bear in mind that your interview is not itself considered a reliable source and that your article will have to be based on previously published reliable sources. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:06, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Trying to understand the reason for a proposed deletion of an article.

The article says that it may be deleted because:

"No independent RS identified"

I just have no idea what an "independent RS" is, and if I knew, I might try to correct that article.

can anyone tell me what is meant by that phrase?

Thank you.

William Slawski (talk) 00:37, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

A "Reliable Source" -Fëanor (talk) 00:40, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks.

William Slawski (talk) 00:42, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi William Slawski. "RS" means reliable source. Wikipedia articles are only intended to reflect what independent reliable sources say about something and only those subjects which have received significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources are generally considered to be Wikipedia notable enough to have articles written about them. For the most part, Wikipedia is not really concerned what a subject has to say about itself; it's more interested in what others unconnected to the subject have to say about it. Primary sources can be used to verify certain non-contentious information, but they cannot be used to establish Wikipedia notability. Now, if you can let us know exactly which article is being proposed for deletion, then it will be easier for Teahouse volunteers to provide you with more specific advice. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:47, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

single cite, multiple quotes

I have a simple question which has almost certainly been answered elsewhere, but I'm not seeing it. Usecase:
One wants to cite a long webpage (though question would apply to other cite types) which addresses multiple subtopics relevant to a single Wikipedia article. One wants to reference different quotes from it in different places in the article. One does not want (though perhaps one should) cut'n'paste a possibly quite big {{cite web ... | quote=...}} in several places just to have separate quote='s. One wants to do something like

<ref name="foo">{{cite web ... lots parameters here, for completeness ... |quote="First interesting quote." }}</ref>

and then

<ref name="foo" quote="Second interesting quote."/>

but which actually works :-) Can this be done? or must one do

<ref name="foo1">{{cite web ... lots parameters here, for completeness ... |quote="First interesting quote." }}</ref>

and then

<ref name="foo2">{{cite web ... same parameters again ... |quote="Second useful quote." }}</ref>

? Apologies again if this is a FAQ, but I'm not seeing it. Tlroche (talk) 22:18, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
@Tlroche: You can use {{harvnb}} within a ref tag:
  • This is my fact.<ref>{{harvnb|Smith|2016}}: "A quotation from Smith."</ref> Another fact.<ref>{{harvnb|Smith|2016}}: "A different quotation from Smith."</ref>
Then define the Smith source in the references section.
  • {{citation|url=http://example.com/|title=The Big Web Page of Reliable Facts|last=Smith|first=Joe|year=2016|accessdate=2016-07-26}}
It would look like this:
This is my fact.[1] Another fact.[2]

References

  1. ^ Smith 2016: "A quotation from Smith."
  2. ^ Smith 2016: "A different quotation from Smith."
  • Smith, Joe (2016), The Big Web Page of Reliable Facts, retrieved 2016-07-26
There may be more complicated ways of doing it, but this is how I'd do it. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 04:02, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

How do I contact a specific editor of a specific page?

Is it acceptable practice to contact the specific editor of a specific page in order to better understand the rationale behind the edits? If this practice is acceptable, how do I go about doing this? Thank you very much. NG1799 (talk) 07:48, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

NG1799: Yes, contacting another editor to discuss something is good practice. You can do it by leaving a message on their talk page, which should have a "New section" tab at the top. Maproom (talk) 08:03, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Help.

I am in terrible need of some guidelines for how to create a page on Wikipedia? and how to become a paid editor? Waiting for your kind reply.Syed Zain Hussain (talk) 08:20, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Syed Zain Hussain: you have already asked this question, below, where it was answered. Maproom (talk) 08:34, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to teahouse again!
First, take a look at these guidelines:
And please also note that wikipedia is not the place to become paid editor. Also look at Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. Thanks.—Constanstin 09:23, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Dr Repalle Shiva Praveen Kumar

A tag has been placed on Dr Repalle Shiva Praveen Kumar, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read the guidelines on spam and Wikipedia:FAQ/Organizations for more information.

Can anyone please help me how to rewrite this article to become encyclopedic???Catalogcits (talk) 08:33, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Rewriting the article in more encyclopedic language might be possible. But there is a more basic problem: the article does nothing to establish that Kumar is notable, in the strange sense in which that word is used here. I suspect that there's nothing that can be done about that, and it would be a waste of time trying. Maproom (talk) 08:44, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
We seem to have had several versions of this article. The current one is Dr Repally Shiva Praveen Kumar, which isn't currently nominated for speedy deletion, but is subject to a deletion discussion. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:57, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
Also, Catalogcits, you already asked about this below here, and received several answers there. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:39, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

User is incorrectly changing numbers

I have had to reupdate a page that a user with only an ip is changing the information incorrectly from the source material. Is there away to report that user or to stop bad edits? Porchpop (talk) 15:08, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. You can issue warnings on the IP's user talk page. If such edits continue after repeated warnings then you can resort to WP:Requests for page protection or WP:Administrator intervention against vandalism. --David Biddulph (talk) 15:17, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

adding photos

I have some illustrative photos to add but an error message indicating possible abuse appears and I can't add what are harmless but helpful pictures. Any advice grateful received.

Knowyourtown (talk) 12:47, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Knowyourtown, where were you trying to add them? I can't find evidence of your trying to upload photos here on en:Wikipedia, and there's no account named Knowyourtown on Commons. It would also help to know where you got the photos – did you take them yourself? Maproom (talk) 14:02, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
The editor's contributions on Commons are shown at commons:Special:Contributions/Knowyourtown. --David Biddulph (talk) 15:19, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

help to upload noncopyright photo

i am makin a page on vijyant thapar and dont know how to upload photo as i dont have the copyright. please help me on the sameRaksha57 (talk) 09:44, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

If the photo is protected by copyright (that is, it is less than about 90 years old, and has not been explicitly released by the copyright owner), and you do not own the copyright, then you cannot upload it to Wikipedia. Maproom (talk) 17:32, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

i have created a page on Captain Vijyant Thapar, kindly help me with this page as he was a martyr in kargil war and needs recognition

i have created a page on captain vijyant thapar this time i have made all the changes due to which my last page on same person was deleted.

kindly help me if any issues on this page i am new to writing and editingRaksha57 (talk) 15:35, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

You are presumably referring to Captain Vijyant Thapar. Note that there have previously been deletions of Vijayant Thapar and Vijyant Thapar. Repeatedly creating under different names is disruptive. --David Biddulph (talk) 15:54, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
Hello, Raksha57. "Needs recognition" is not an acceptable purpose for putting anything into Wikipedia. Until something has been recognised, by being written about in some depth by people who have no connection to the subject, and published in reliable places, there may not be a Wikipedia article about it. --ColinFine (talk) 18:22, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
Note that one of the previous incarnations of this article was deleted after an Articles for deletion discussion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vijayant Thapar so any attempt to recreate it not only has to pass the general notability grounds but also must stand up to scrutiny against speedy deletion criteria G4. Nthep (talk) 18:40, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Jade Bullion, same integrity as Gold Bullion was deleted.

I tried to write about Jade Bullion because it is not on Wikipedia. I also noticed that the BC Provincial Gemstone, "Jade", the image redirects to Chinese Jade. I tried to edit this, and it was rejected. I believe those who are responsible for debating these posts know nothing about Jade. Why would they reject an image of BC Nephrite Jade over a picture and link to Chinese Jade? Jade Bullion (talk) 00:04, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Jade Bullion. On your first point, "Jade Bullion" is a commercial product offered by one company, BC Jade Designs, and the only information about it is on the company's website. It is therefore in no way comparable to Gold bullion, which has a long history worldwide and has been discussed extensively in reliable sources. Your efforts to advertise this product on Wikipedia are not acceptable.
You attempted to replace a freely licensed image of Jade in the article Symbols of British Columbia with an external link to an image on the BC Jade Designs website. This is not acceptable for several reasons. First of all, any image included in a Wikipedia article must be hosted on Wikimedia Commons, or here on English Wikipedia. We do not display images hosted on any other website. Secondly, your attempt has a clearly promotional/advertising intent, and we do not allow that on Wikipedia. You do have a point that the image is of Chinese jade. The solution is to change the image to a freely licensed non-commercial image of jade mined in British Columbia.
You also tried to remove an image of Chinese jade from Jade, an article with a worldwide perspective. This is also not appropriate, as the intent seems to be to reduce the visibility of a competing product. Any edits you make must be from the neutral point of view, and must not promote your own business interests. Please read about how to manage a conflict of interest, and make the mandatory paid editing disclosure if you are editing as part of your job. Also, your promotional account name violates our username policy. Please change it. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 01:56, 27 July 2016 (UTC)



References:

Resource World Magazine, January 2016, New Sun Jade Producing BC Jade Bullion.


Jewellery Business Magazine, July 2016, Page 64-71.

BC Jade Designs is not a company.

Chinese Jade is not the BC Provincial Gemstone. Chinese Jade is not a competitive product.

Gold Bullion was invented by someone, Wikipedia doesn't know for sure. Jade Bullion was invented by someone, the references are here.

It is a trade product like gold, like any commodity.

One or more or all of your editors believe that Chinese jade, which our provincial Gemstone links to, is a symbol of British Columbia. Nephrite Jade from BC comes in Jade Bullion form as a part of the New Canadian Jade Code of Conduct.

My post "promotes" this. Just like some one else's post promotes Chinese jade as our Provincial Gemstone.

If my user name is not correct, forgive me, I am new. My intent was to update Wikipedia with current factual information. See references above.

Please do not link our provincial Gemstone to a Chinese Jade page. My image, yes it came from a website, like I said I am new. In no way was it meant to be an advert, but YES it does promote the idea that wikipedia's current editors are not up to date with the literature. Again, see references.

If you would like me to change the user name for you to accept these facts then I can do that. Otherwise, your site is FALSE and misleading. The province of BC, and the entire industry, I speak for. BC Jade is not Chinese Jade. BC Jade comes in Bullion form, as a certified, Appraised and Registered national export. Same as Gold Bullion. Jade Bullion (talk) 02:53, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Please change your username, Jade Bullion, upload a freely licensed non-commercial photo of British Columbia jade to Wikipedia Commons, disclose your conflict of interest on your new user page, and if you want to try to write a new article, use the Articles for Creation process. Be aware that Wikipedia does not exist to promote commercial ventures. Accusatory language toward other editors accomplishes nothing. Please stop it. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 03:37, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

I'ts not accusatory. I made the proper edits, and they were rejected. I'm sorry but linking our provincial Gemstone to Chinese Jade is incorrect. It's like calling Canadian Diamonds the same as West African Diamonds. I made the necessary and appropriate edits. Your editors rejected them. Jade Bullion (talk) 04:02, 27 July 2016 (UTC)


(e/c) We are not buying your bridge. New Sun Jade Incorporated/BC Jade Designs however otherwise it styles itself and its product is a business venture, and not the name of a general commodity, and it is abundantly clear from your edits that you are here to promote that venture and the product. Wikipedia articles must be on topics of knowledge, as recognized by the world taking an interest in a topic by publishing significant material about it in independent, reliable sources. An encyclopedia article will not be warranted on the topic until that recognition takes place. There is not one mention of "jade bullion" in Google Books' catalogue of 27 million books (of the world's approximate 130 million). There are 144,000 mentions of "gold bullion" however, stretching back to 1720.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:39, 27 July 2016 (UTC)


"Jade Bullion" is the name of the post, not BC Jade Designs, nor New Sun Jade Inc.

And it's true, Jade Bullion is newer than Gold bullion. So is Silver Bullion, Copper Bullion and several other refined forms of natural resources.

Jade Bullion is published...not in a book, but in Magazines. Do these sources, noted above, not have credit as reliable sources? I could ask the editors for you if you like? Google effectively does not show everything because these articles can be found using Google. Is "significant material" and "reliable sources" something I should discuss with the publishers?

The Registered Canadian Industrial Design is also published in Cambridge House International, June 2014.

I wonder if they would agree with you that they are not a reliable source, and that their publications have no significant interest?

This is not a "bridge". It's fact. See the independent reliable references above. Jade Bullion (talk) 04:02, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Jade Bullion, please abandon your efforts to advertise your business ventures on Wikipedia because we simply will not allow it. Please cease using this account which violates our username policy. Now. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:37, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
I have replaced the "jade" image in Symbols of British Columbia by an image from Commons that shows jade from British Columbia. I agree with the other editors who have replied above, that the "Jade Bullion" company, presumably the one described here, does not warrant a Wikipedia article. Maproom (talk) 09:04, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank you Maproom for editing the image of BC Jade. I would like to add, again, that Jade Bullion is not a company. It is a tangible hard asset, like gold, silver, Diamonds, and is a registered Canadian design, like gold and silver. I do not get paid to post. I would just like for Wikipedia to be updated. Nephrite is the proper minerological name of this gemstone, I tried to change that too, again rejected. My user name is not Nephrite. No company has this name. Are we not allowed to credit inventors? Jade Bullion (talk) 13:13, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia already has an article on Nephrite. Jade Bullion, you appear to be trying to promote something (though you're doing it so badly that some of us can't figure out what it is). Wikipedia forbids its use for promotion. Maproom (talk) 14:08, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Maproom, how am I promoting something that is not for sale? What is "badly" about it? You have already agreed that the image for BC Jade required editing. Thank you. It just seems that wikipedia's is really behind the times on the information it is publishing about our industry. If you don't know anything about it, and you have already motivated my request to edit the image, why are you claiming to know the Industry? Wouldn't professionals, government, publishers, and workers have that knowledge for you? They do, and we are simply trying to update the references and bring the world view of the Industry up to standard. As it is, we're it not for me proposing the image editing, the world would still be linking our provincial Gemstone to Chinese Jade. Several of your editors now have shown they don't know, but insist that they do. You at least respected the image change, after several deletes. Good job. Back to the Jade Bullion, I'll let the BC govies know that you and your team do not wish to recognize it. Good job. 24.108.34.128 (talk) 20:29, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

yeah, you do that and tell the BC government to send someone along who is capable of speaking sensibly. Get this, trading in jade bullion is not, as yet, a notable topic. 92.40.249.5 (talk) 21:09, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

how to link to (answer to) a Teahouse Question?

I'd like to save a link to an answer to a Teahouse Question (for future reference), but I'm not seeing a way to do this. (By contrast, this would be trivially easy in, e.g., a Stack Exchange forum. Hence it does not seem to me to be an unreasonable request or expectation.) Am I missing something? Tlroche (talk) 23:55, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi Tlroche. An internal link to a page section is made by enclosing the link in double brackets with page name followed by a number sign (#) and then the page section's name. So, to links to this section, you would type: [[Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions#how to link to (answer to) a Teahouse Question?]] To find the external link url of such a section follow that link and then copy the address from your browser's address bar. However, because of the type of page this is, posts get archived after a few days. So if you want a long lasting working link, you can wait until a thread is archived and then link in the same way to it permanently. The archives are linked in the TOC box to the right of this page. Of course, you could also visit the page history of this page, then click on a date when the answer you want is up, and then add to the url # and the name of the section, thus making a permanent section link to that prior version. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:20, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Tlroche (talk) 01:20, 28 July 2016 (UTC): thanks @Fuhghettaboutit:, but I meant how to save an external link, and ...
@Tlroche: If the post is currently visible here then another method is to click "Permanent link" under "Tools" in the left pane, and then click the section name in the table of contents. Then you can copy the url from the browser address bar. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:39, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
..., thanks @PrimeHunter:, this is a much easier way to get the desired external link to a Teahouse question (though, again, not nearly as userfriendly as the Stack Exchange affordances). Tlroche (talk) 01:20, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

how to archive webpage behind robot exclusion?

I'm guessing the answer to this question is "no," but thought I'd ask anyway, just to be sure. (After doing a brief search of Help and Tutorial and seeing nothing relevant.)

As a Good User Wannabe, I try to add references, and even sometimes improve old ones. When I <ref>, I try to add an archive-url by using archive.org. Unfortunately that won't archive any page that is on a site that excludes robots. So I'd like to know, *is* there a way to archive a page from a site that excludes robots? Tlroche (talk) 01:40, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

It looks like archive.is is an alternative archive that ignores robots.txt. You can see some discussion at Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Archive.is_RFC_4 RudolfRed (talk) 03:18, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

== What about G47 Shuangliao-Nenjiang Expressway? == (Expressways of China) [Click here] Charizardmewtwo (talk) 17:08, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Image from Wiki page removed

Hi! I uploaded an image on a wiki page of which I own copyright. But still it has been deleted. How do I prove that I hold the copyright of the image, and revert back the changes made?

For your help , am talking about this page : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Energy_and_Resources_Institute

The image : Dr_Ajay_mathur.jpg was removed.

Thanks!

Neeshu30 (talk) 05:22, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. The problem was explained to you, with relevant wikilinks, at commons:User talk:Neeshu30#File:Dr Ajay mathur.jpg. See also WP:Donating copyrighted materials. --David Biddulph (talk) 05:39, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive_508&oldid=1146813088"