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Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2023 February 4

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 16:50, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All these year navboxes for U.S. states link to categories of the year in the respective state and not to articles. And the articles these are used on are completely wrong and irrelevant. Per the discussion Alaska year nav on January 15 they all have been replaced by Template:Year in US state category which are used on the respective cats for the year in each U.S. state. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 22:51, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@WikiCleanerMan: While your evaluation is likely correct about most of the included templates, I wanted to mention an exception: Michigan's. Michigan's year navigation box has a majority of its links direct to articles covering said year in Michigan, not simply categories. RoundSquare (talk) 01:04, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for catching that. It had the year nav title hence why I made this error. I have removed it. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 01:06, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. These link to categories but are used on a few articles so navigation is broken. Navigation templates should also not be used on categories so there is no salvaging these templates. Template:Michigan year nav should be cleaned up from category links but that is outside this TfD. Gonnym (talk) 14:10, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 16:45, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unused and current blue links have been replaced by Template:Kremenets Raion or Template:Ternopil Oblast. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 21:41, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Added the 3 village links that were missing. Gonnym (talk) 14:14, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 16:46, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unused transclusion to article Free area of the Republic of China. Created in 2016. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 21:32, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Gonnym (talk) 14:11, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 16:50, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unused with no articles for use. Just links of railway stations instead of a railway route. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 20:01, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Could be placed in Railway to Beersheba#Passenger service. Useddenim (talk) 00:42, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 21:01, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Use or Delete if not transcluded to the article Useddenim suggested by the time the listing ends. A template, including route maps, should be used when they are created. If they are not used, that usually means that there is no need for them. Gonnym (talk) 14:08, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
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The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 16:51, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unused. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:59, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Izno (talk) 18:01, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete if not transcluded into an article by the time the listing ends. A template, including route maps, should be used when they are created. If they are not used, that usually means that there is no need for them. Gonnym (talk) 14:07, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
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The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 16:51, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unused with no articles for use. All links are train/railway stations rather than a route which is what these templates are usually for rather than listing stations. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:28, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Izno (talk) 18:01, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete if not transcluded into an article by the time the listing ends. A template, including route maps, should be used when they are created. If they are not used, that usually means that there is no need for them. Gonnym (talk) 14:06, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
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The result of the discussion was keep. I think it's fairly obvious which way this is ending; closing early to get rid of the "see TFD" indication that's showing up on thousands of pages. Hog Farm Talk 21:16, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Deprecate, replace with more useful and meaningful alternatives, e.g. {{about}} and {{for}}. This template is not helpful: first off, nothing is to be confused with anything else. Secondly, it's not clear from the hatnote which of the two things is which. E.g. if one uses {{for}}, then it's clear that the article I am about to read is about a singer and not a baseball player, so I immediately know to go to the article about the baseball player. Third, the when to use documentation still proves a weak use case, which is mostly related to misspellings. In practice, this is used for all kinds of kinda/sorta similar spellings, but to use the example from the documentation, if one sees a {{Distinguish}} hatnote at Coma that reads "not to be confused with Comma" (again, nothing is to be confused), then wouldn't it be more helpful to use {{for}} and have something like "For the typographical character, see comma" or {{about}} reading something like "This article is about the medical condition. For the typographical character, see Comma"? I see no use case where this is superior to a more specific hatnote. To use a final real-world example, the subtle distinction between Anarchism and Anarchy is not really explained by the hatnote: you'll have to read the article and suss out the difference, whereas something like "This article is about the political philosophy advocating a stateless society, for a state of affairs where there is no government, see Anarchy" be more helpful? ―Justin (koavf)TCM 17:07, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep, to take one real world example, there have been at least four association football clubs called Clydebank, founded in 1874, 1914, 1965, and 2003. Not only does it help to remind which one you are reading, but it is also an instant indication that the club you may have found information for from the 1930s is not the same one as you have found information for from the 1970s. In Vitrio (talk) 20:09, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Snow close you could improve {{distinguish}} by adding |about= to it. If you want to replace it, you'd need to add |distinguish=, |distinguish1=, |distinguish2=, |distinguish3=, ... to {{about}}; slotting it it between the "about" portion and the "for" list. As {{about}} does not support such, there's no way to currently replace it. -- 64.229.90.199 (talk) 20:47, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong keep: This template is used in almost a hundred thousand articles and is definitely useful. Of course, you can use other, similar templates, but this one is kind of like a catch-all. Deleting this template would cause a lot of red-links to appear and it would take quite a while to replace them. Also, "see tfd" is annoying. from Piperium (chit-chat, i did that) at 21:03, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep. Obvious case of WP:SNOW. What kind of tortured reasoning is "nothing is to be confused with anything else"? Phiarc (talk) 21:06, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What is confusing about the reasoning? Nothing is supposed to be confused with anything else, so writing that is just an obvious statement. ―Justin (koavf)TCM 21:13, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 16:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No transclusions, documentation, incoming links from discussions, or categories. Does not appear in any template code. Created in 2009. {{RfCU-OS-links}} exists and is used. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:10, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 16:53, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No transclusions, documentation, incoming links from discussions, or categories. Created in 2015. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:08, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Partofthemachine (talk) 19:51, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
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The result of the discussion was relisted on 2023 February 12. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 16:53, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 16:54, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Topicon for WikiProject that never existed. No transclusions. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:48, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 16:54, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No transclusions, documentation, categories, incoming links from discussions, or template parameters. Created in 2013. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:44, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
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The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 16:54, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No transclusions, documentation, categories, or incoming links from discussions. Created in January 2022. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:44, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
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The result of the discussion was no consensus. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 16:55, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Right now, just a collection of red links. Liz Read! Talk! 02:16, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Liz,
Those red links you mention are for tournaments that are scheduled to take place this season. The pages for those tournaments have not been created yet - but will. There is a working link for Copa Oster - currently taking place in Cali. They will be created throughout the season. The red links will therefore become live/"working" throughout the season, as each page is created.
Just as an example, have a look at the following templates
- 2023 WTA Tour
- 2023 ATP Tour
They also have red links for tournaments that have not yet taken place and working links for current and past tournaments. So very similar to this template.
As I'm sure you know, there are multiple pages with red links on Wikipedia. It just means that the page to that link has not been created yet. I don't see why that should be the sole reason to deleting a template that many people are familiar with and find it useful. 0add0n (talk) 15:27, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Create a navigation template when the pages it should navigate to and from are created. Not before. Placing these empty or semi-empty templates on a page isn't helpful. Gonnym (talk) 08:46, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Did you read all of my answer? 0add0n (talk) 16:49, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Read this: Wikipedia:Deletion_policy and point out which criteria, if any, does this template meet to qualify for deletion. Because I couldn't find one. 0add0n (talk) 18:49, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Liz, here's what it says in this page: Wikipedia:Red link
"Red links may be used in navboxes which also contain links to existing articles, but they cannot be excessive. Editors who add excessive red links to navboxes are expected to actively work on building those articles, or the links may be removed from the template." As I said, there other templates out there with red links, which will become "live" once their target pages are created. I created some pages last season and can do so again. I don't see your reasoning for deleting this template other that you don't like the look of it, @Liz. 0add0n (talk) 18:27, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that out of 49 links only 4 are blue. That is an excessive amount of non-links in a NAVIGATION template. 4 is also barely the minimum amount for a valid navigation template (people often quote 5 as the bare minimum). I suggest removing the sea of red links until such a time as those are actually blue links. Gonnym (talk) 10:12, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Gonnym, I understand that many people will find it excessive but red links are not sufficient reason for deletion of the template - it's not in the deletion policy. You could also say that "excessive" is the debatable, as there's no specific max. number in the guideline. Currently, the 2023 ATP tour template has more than 160 red links and 2023 WTA Tour over 100! So, if you just put that in perspective...
I could also list a number of these sort of templates, from previous seasons, that have had red links at some point but won't bore you. I hope you vote keep. Thanks. 0add0n (talk) 14:00, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I won't vote keep but won't vote delete either since it has 4 links which to me is very close to the bare minimum. That said, if this does become a new issue of creating empty templates, I will change me stance and vote to delete them as that is indeed an issue that should be stopped. Gonnym (talk) 14:03, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).