Wikipedia:Village pump (assistance)/Archive D

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Village pump (assistance) archive  

This page contains discussions that have been archived from Village pump (assistance). Please do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to revive any of these discussions, either start a new thread or use the talk page associated with that topic.

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How do I investigate sockpuppets?

I have noticed suspicious parallels between the conduct of two accounts. I have clear evidence that, if they are indeed the same person, they have been used to mislead other users and frustrate Wikipedia policy. Where do I go from here? Susvolans (pigs can fly) 12:33, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It depends. do you think it is an arbcom issue?Geni 00:42, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It may be. The two accounts cast a number of double votes, and there is further behaviour implying contempt for the Wiki process. Susvolans (pigs can fly) 12:02, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Template assistance

When I searched for the accounting firm in the Enron scandal, I looked up Arthur Anderson. I quickly realized I was not where I wanted to be. What I actually needed was Arthur Andersen. "-En" as opposed to "-on". I thought that there'd be a template to add to the "-on" article which would direct me to what I was actually looking for. I haven't found one though (though I did add some text to redirect the next bad speller). Is there a template for homophones? Or are people just to be the victims of their own inability to spell? And yes, I checked the template page but didn't find anything. Thanks, Dismas 03:40, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You could try Template:For. A good place to find templates is Wikipedia:Template messages. Bovlb 04:58, 2005 Jun 17 (UTC)

Thanks! That's what I was looking for! Dismas 13:12, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Trollish / Vandalish / Sockpuppetish User. How to deal with this?

The user BrowardDon has been repeatedly posting nonsensical votes in the VFDs, adding nonsensical information to articles, and creating articles based on people with no notability whatsoever (though apparent personal connections). He may be a sockpuppet of BrowardPlaya.

I have no experience with things like this at all, and the Wikipedia:... pages are not being very helpful. What can be done, should I post his name somewhere, what? -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 02:41, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

BrowardPlaya is very obviously the same as User:Broward_something_else_again (sorry, I forget), who I noticed a week or so ago, amusing himself by writing nonsense and puerile threats about "bitches" etc. etc. Sorry, can't be of more help. -- Hoary 03:22, 2005 Jun 16 (UTC)

• The place to mention it is Vandalism in progress, as adding nonsensical information to articles is a form of vandalism. Since it's rather backlogged, you may want to try the admin noticeboard instead, or in this particular case you could notify me on my talk page since I've already permablocked two or three of his sockpuppets. Radiant_>|< 12:32, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

• In addition, if this is an urgent case, you could post it at WP:AIV. Flcelloguy Give me a note! Desk 15:06, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

New articles posted, blatanly copied word-for-word from a web site that comes up listed first in Google...options?

I was viewing the 500 newest articles, and I found that one anon user in particular, was posting new articles that were copied directly from a copyrighted web site, word-for-word, that was the first result in Google for the subject of the article.

I have watch-listed the ones that I could find, most of the articles have the notice of wikified and need of attention.

An example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_Muhammad_bin_al-Husain_al-Aajurree_al-Baghdaadee

and if you search the name "Abu Bakr Muhammad bin al-Husain al-Aajurree al-Baghdaadee" in Google, and click on the first result, you will get the same thing from the Web site that is in the Wiki article.

My question is what are our/my options? Can I VFD this, since it is a word-for-word copyright violation?

Thank you,
Srcrowl 09:02, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

• see Template:copyvio and Wikipedia:Copyright problems <>Who?¿? 09:04, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Thank you...Srcrowl 09:15, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

Postcard image in Public Domain

Is an image on a postcard, sent through the US mail, considered in the Public Domain? Does this have the same fair use exception as a book cover?

The person or entity that created the artwork and/or text on the card would retain copyright, unless they were an employee of the U.S. government, copyright has run out, or in some cases if the materials were originally public domain. Books and postcards are used for different purposes, so fair use might be construed differently. Fair use images seem to be discouraged on Wikipedia. -- Beland 03:52, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Condemnant qui non intellegent (Latin expertise only)

Not exactly a dispute or anything serious, a conversation has been taking place about this in my talk page. I'd personally like some assistance and most of all, somone who is really good at Latin to check this up. EliasAlucard|Talk 23:24, 14 Jun, 2005 (UTC)

• Me, a poor Latin student, commented on the page, though we would all appreciate another opinion. Flcelloguy Give me a note! Desk 01:20, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

VfD

I want to VfD Brian Wolden. There was a VfD on a different article with the same name several months ago. How do I create the VfD for the current article? Joyous (talk) July 3, 2005 20:19 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Maintenance#Renominations. --cesarb 3 July 2005 21:00 (UTC)

Thanks! I couldn't find that page. Joyous (talk) July 3, 2005 21:06 (UTC)

Nobody who doesn't already know can. It's wonderfully obscure. Took me more than a month before I stumbled upon it. --cesarb 3 July 2005 21:10 (UTC)

Odd. It looks as if the previous discussion has never been closed. The article doesn't show up in the deletion log, either, although it looked like a clear "delete" over half a year ago. Rl 3 July 2005 21:08 (UTC)

Why does this anchored link not work?

On NOS, the link to National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration gets you to the right page, but doesn't follow the anchor to the right section. I can't figure out why. Why does it not work? --RoySmith 3 July 2005 11:28 (UTC)

Worksforme. -- Cyrius|✎ 3 July 2005 18:06 (UTC)

Hmmm. OK, I tried some other browsers. It fails on Safari 1.3 (v312), but does works fine on IE 5.2 and Firefox 1.0 (all under OSX 10.3.9). I guess I'll have to chalk it up to a browser bug. Thanks. --RoySmith 3 July 2005 19:55 (UTC)

• Linking to a specific section on another page is discouraged. It won't work on any browser if the section gets renamed and there's no easy way to see if there's links to a specific section within a page. - Mgm|^(talk) July 4, 2005 10:57 (UTC)

Lord of the Rings music CD BBC Radio play (music by Stephen Oliver)

Hello Folks: I am seeking the music CD that was included in the UK release of the BBC radio play of the Lord of the Rings. The North American version did not include the music CD - cheapies at Bantam, or lacking in class. There are numerous people selling the CDs on ebay, but it's not clear which ones might have the additional CD of music only. I have read the Wikipedia description of the various releases, but it's a little confusing as to the one that has the music available. Does anyone know the version that I should seek? Is the CD available on its own? Thanks for any help - July 2/05 --206.116.67.138 3 July 2005 01:19 (UTC) LB

• This question is better directed to the Wikipedia reference desk - Mgm|^(talk) July 4, 2005 10:56 (UTC)

Gnu FDL articles from elsewhere

I was going to write a new article, but when I googled the subject, one of the first hits was to an good article explicitly licensed under GFDL on the Bible Wiki. Would it be suitable to copy the text? thanks Salsb 2 July 2005 22:48 (UTC)

If you provide full authorship information about the article being moved, it's legally okay. -- Cyrius|✎ 3 July 2005 01:53 (UTC)

What happens if someone would like to edit/add? Aliter 3 July 2005 13:00 (UTC)

They click "edit this page" and do so. GFDL allows for derivative works. -- Cyrius|✎ 3 July 2005 18:06 (UTC)

Hačky in titles

Hello,

It used to be that you couldn't have the diacritics called háčky in Czech -- there's one on top of the "c" in háčky -- in article titles. That appears to have changed. I'm working an article on Prague city districts. It includes links to names of individual districts in case articles are created on them (some districts already have articles). Should I type the links in as "Vinor|Vinoř" or just "Vinor"? Thanks Mwalcoff 2 July 2005 21:54 (UTC)

• The two reasonable choices are [[Vinor|Vinoř]] and [[Vinoř]]. Certainly not just [[Vinor]]. With the new software, there seems to be a move toward placing the article at [[Vinoř]]. -- Jmabel | Talk July 3, 2005 17:11 (UTC)
  • Oops. I meant to put a háček in the last "Vinoř." Mwalcoff 4 July 2005 00:51 (UTC)

• • But leave a redirect at [[Vinor]], of course. Bovlb 2005-07-03 18:43:50 (UTC)

Israel Photo link

I'm not sure how to deal with this. A user with an anonymous account is repeatedly putting a link to his private site on the Israel page. He's sent me personal mails that are abusive and this gem on my user page. I'm a bit stuck about what to do. He's had about 4 different IPs, and has been constantly adding this link for about 5 days now, despite reverts. What do I do??? Jgritz 2 July 2005 14:13 (UTC)

• Sometimes, rather than merely remove a link, it is better to comment it out with a remark why it was removed. Then, if the person re-adds the link, anyone who is looking at the diffs can spot what is going on. -- Jmabel | Talk July 2, 2005 17:19 (UTC)

Watch list is empty even when I choose all

Hi,

My watchlist gradually showed fewer and fewer items. Even my own edits don't show! Thanks. --Emico 1 July 2005 21:12 (UTC)

The same thing happened to me - but it started working again half an hour ago.--Fenice 1 July 2005 21:16 (UTC)

Yeah, me too.illWill 1 July 2005 23:53 (UTC)

• The watchlist problem is an ongoing systemwide bug after the software upgrade to version 1.5. See Wikipedia:MediaWiki 1.5 bugs#Watchlist problems for more. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 1 July 2005 23:59 (UTC)

Where should I list pages that need to be divided?

I have a page with two diferent people's biographies on it - it needs to be divided and disambiguated, but I can't figure out where to list it to gather other people's help in doing so... I remember that there is a page, but I can't find it now... JesseW 1 July 2005 06:58 (UTC)

There's the {{Split}}, which puts the article into Category:Articles to be split. Would that work? --Dmcdevit 1 July 2005 07:15 (UTC)

Yep, that's it. I'll look into getting [[[:Category:Articles to be split]] listed in all the appropriate places that I looked (and didn't find it) in. Thanks for the astonishingly prompt response. 17 minutes. On a web page. Wikis are fun. :-) JesseW 1 July 2005 08:04 (UTC)

Elections for the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation.

Although I vowed never again to wander into the sinister hall of mirrors that is Wikipedia politics, I thought nevertheless I'd take up the invitation that's currently blaring out from the top of every page, and vote in this election.

Having studied the candidates' statements, however, I find I cannot agree with any of them. Therefore I would like to vote for "None Of The Above". This doesn't appear to be an option, however.

Furthermore, the voting page is not a wiki and there is no associated talk page on which to make comments.

Since I don't wish to endanger my sanity by entering the Kafkaesque labyrinth of bureaucracy that the Wikipedia policy pages have become, I'd be grateful if somebody with more patience than me could direct me to a page where it would be appropriate to make the above observations and politely register my protest.

Many thanks. GrahamN 1 July 2005 01:50 (UTC)

It's an approval ballot, if you want to vote for none of the above, check none of the boxes. If you'd like a meaningful protest made on your behalf, you're going to have to say something more concrete than "I find I cannot agree with any of [the candidates' statements]". -- Cyrius|✎ 1 July 2005 02:28 (UTC)

Image Help Pleas

Can someone resize these two images pleas?

File:Peaches.JPG

and

File:Rikki.JPG

. Thanks. --Admiral Roo June 30, 2005 13:31 (UTC)

There you go, and for future reference: Wikipedia:Picture tutorial -- Essjay · Talk June 30, 2005 13:47 (UTC)

I would be very happy to do any image editing for any WikiMedia-related project, just drop me a note, if you want something done that's beyond your scope.Pedant 2005 July 2 03:59 (UTC)

Watchlist

How in the world can I have 225.5 pages on my watchlist??? Jaberwocky6669 June 28, 2005 16:15 (UTC)

It's a minor known glitch. Don't worry about it. -- Cyrius|✎ 28 June 2005 16:27 (UTC)

I'm not sweating about it but it struck me as, odd Jaberwocky6669 June 28, 2005 16:33 (UTC) lol

It is odd, but it has been reported about a thousand times already. -- Cyrius|✎ 28 June 2005 19:07 (UTC)

It's not odd, it's fractional! -- Jmabel | Talk July 2, 2005 03:49 (UTC)

page counter

Is there a tool to read the page counters, like the edit counter? Uwe Kils June 30, 2005 17:17 (UTC)

Knitting web friend from another culture

I am an American knitter of 25 yrs. who unlike some of my countrymen, wants to learn about another culture while pursuing a craft.If we are both enjoy knitting I tnink it would be a great knitting and learning experience. Can you help hook me up? Thanks

Lack of relevant article name

I wrote a short article about a case where a pile of waste stayed in a Haitian beach for number of years (among other things). However, I am not at all sure about a proper title. Now the text resides in User:Skysmith/Temp. Would anyone have any good suggestions, especially if they know more about environmental politics that I do. - Skysmith 30 June 2005 10:23 (UTC)

I would suggest something along the lines of Khian Sea waste disposal incident. I think the name of the ship is the main distinguishing factor here, and 'waste disposal incident' seems to be the more neutral way of describing it. --Gareth Hughes 30 June 2005 11:00 (UTC)

Funny, I was about to suggest exactly the same title. Fredrik | talk 30 June 2005 11:02 (UTC)

I hope you would have put the s in waste though! --Gareth Hughes 30 June 2005 11:05 (UTC)

WP:VFD/Yesterday

WP:VFD/Yesterday is still displaying the log of votes for deletion for June 26; it should be up to June 29, or at least June 28, by now. Purging the cache doesn't seem to help. --Metropolitan90 June 30, 2005 02:18 (UTC)

I've never viewed this page in my life (and my host is very good with clearing its cache) and yet I see June 26 as well. Perhaps the bot or tool used to generate it isn't 1.5-compliant? Master Thief Garrett^Talk 30 June 2005 02:45 (UTC)

I suspect this is connected to the notice at the top of AllyUnion's user page.Bovlb June 30, 2005 03:12 (UTC)

double spacing?

It seems that all the text in the Classic skin is double-spaced. Is this a new Wikipedia feature, or is my browser messing up? --Ixfd64 2005 June 29 06:21 (UTC)

edit: it happened to be a problem with my browser.

Re: user name-Alaman7191

My user name is Alamander. I made a mistake and also signed up as Alaman7191. Please delete Alaman7191. I will continue to use Alamander. Thank you.

Meyer Moldeven (Alamander) User:Alaman7191

Removed e-mail address (see history if you really need it) and replaced w/ username. We need devs for this I believe? — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 28 June 2005 18:51 (UTC)

Album COvers

Are album covers and other pictures packaged with albums free to use here? Jaberwocky6669 June 28, 2005 03:51 (UTC)

• Yes on cover, not sure about inner pics, would assume free use.. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags <>Who?¿? 28 June 2005 04:07 (UTC)

Album covers are copyright to the producers or artists, but Wikipedia uses them to illustrate appropriate articles under the rationale of "fair use". Part of the justification of this is that we only upload relatively small images of the albums, making it impossible for someone to print a high quality duplicate cover. If you intend to upload album covers yourself, do so only to the individual language Wikipedias such as en: and not to the Wikipedia commons, and use existing images as a guide to acceptable resolution.-gadfium 28 June 2005 04:12 (UTC)

Citing Sources

According to Wikipedia guidlines, its a good idea to cite sources. However, the majority of Wikipedia articles don't cite sources at all, or at most, leave a brief "further reading" list at the end of the article.

I'm a bit unclear about what citations in Wikipedia should ideally look like. Here is a link to what I would consider to be a scholarly review article with proper citations. However, is this the kind of detailed citation style really called for in a general encyclopedia? The number of citations in such an article greatly lengthen the amount of text and the resulting bibliography takes up about 25% of the article's text (almost 2 pages out of a total of 7). I'm used to writing research papers and I could easily write an article using this kind of citation style, but I'm unsure whether this would be too lengthy for an "encyclopedia" type article.

Could someone point me to a well-written Wikipedia article that you would consider as having adequate citations and makes good use of citation and bibliographic style? It would really help if I had an example to work from.

--Peter G Werner 00:27, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• The common practice is generally "External links" and/or "References". See Cite resources; is an example of wikilinks for reference.

Usually if there is no easily verifable data, or some obscure topic, I use the html tag sup; ^[1] to reference items. Or if you don't want an external link in the middle just use ¹ and then list them under References:

References

1 Cite resources.

Hope thats some help, as far as style, I'm not very much help there. <>Who?¿? 05:17, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Help!

I created a page recently and I believe someone blanked it out and somehow destroyed the page history! I have no clue about how to get it back =( Please help me! Sincerely, Crying in WP Jaberwocky6669 19:56, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)

• What was the page title? Also, if there is no page history, it may have been deleted. <>Who?¿? 19:58, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Wikipedia:Checkers The talk page is still intact and the sub-pages are still there too... Jaberwocky6669 20:00, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)
  • It was deleted.. see log by User:Danny. You may want to direct your question to his user page for more info. <>Who?¿? 20:03, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

***I thought the page was a redirect to Draughts. Steve block 20:05, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC) Ah, no, it was the page where you could play checkers, wasn't it. Sorry. Steve block 20:07, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• • • I thought there were other Wikipedia games though, dont remember the link, but remember seeing it. Wonder if this would fall under the same area. <>Who?¿? 20:09, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• The page was not deleted per VfD policy because the talk page remains. VfD policy was not used at all. Chess exists why cant Checkers? Jaberwocky6669 20:29, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)
  • I agree, I reviewed Wikipedia:Deletion policy and Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion and I do not see how it would qualify. Especially since I knew that I had seen Chess game as you mentioned. I am not an admin, I suggest you either ask him why he speedied it, or post a comment on Wikipedia:Requests for administrator attention, as it can be undeleted if decided. <>Who?¿? 21:10, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Thank you for all of your advice! If no one thinks that checkers should be here then that is just fine with me. But I think I got shafted here... Jaberwocky6669 21:12, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)

Need Help on Templates

Is there a template for articles that tells editors to please view the talk page before making edits? We're currently trying to make a collaboration on FOX News (as I have crossposted in a lot of places) and I would like to get anons to see what we're doing on the talk page and perhaps help out before making possibly controversial edits in the article. — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 17:24, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• You can check the Wikipedia:Template_messages/Disputes#Disputes , I think one of those may help, otherwise you could always just put

Please see Talk:FOX News for current discussion.

Hope that helps. <>Who?¿? 17:35, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think I'll do that one, because none of the other templates really fit, and the neutrality one is already up there and isn't helping. Thanks for your help. — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 17:49, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You could use {{comment}}. smoddy 18:06, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Username alterations?

Hi there, I was wondering if it is possible to have an admin alter my username to improve my privacy by deleting my surname? --Naresh 16:25, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)

• No, admins don't have the database access necessary to do that. You'd have to contact a developer. But those are generally backlogged with such tasks. I suggest, you simple set up a new account and make sure the two accounts can't be linked until a developer has the time to reassign your edits. - Mgm|^(talk) 21:20, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)
• In the meantime, I see you already masked your signature, not sure if you did it manually or not, but that can be setup in preferences so it only shows "Naresh" with the ~~~~. If you do setup a new account, you may be able to move your current userpage to it, not sure how that works with userpages though. <>Who?¿? 00:57, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • If you have not done so, edit your preferences to change your signature. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 01:01, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Interwiki images

How do I display (not link) to images in other Wikipedia's; I'm trying to do it in the Reaction section of Anna Lindh. - RoyBoy ⁸⁰⁰ 05:33, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• I havent tried that yet, as I do not know any images other language versions. But I would try

[[Image:de:imagename.jpg]]

as an example for a Wiki German image.

I know it works for regular wiki links, not sure if it will for images. Granted I'm probably way-off, but figured I would give a suggesiton. <>Who?¿? 06:33, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If the image does not have a copyright problem you can upload it to commons [2]. Images from there can be tied into any article on any language wikipedia, using the same sytnax as for local images. Click on the image in the foreign language wikipedia and see if it isn't already on commons. There would be a template with a link to the description of the image on commons.--Fenice 06:49, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Help with a VfD decision

Physical space was nominated for deletion and survived as a redirect. Does that mean it has to remain a redirect? I don't want to get involved in an edit war, and I just want to find out what the policy is. Steve block 09:20, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• I would say no, it doesnt have to be a redirect permanently. If a topic arises that warrants its own article, than the page can have a disambig note at the top, or the page could even now be used as a disambig page w/o any content other than the articles that it may refer too. I am not sure on the policy either though. <>Who?¿? 09:32, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • That's frustrating. I thought the page couldn't be deleted because the content was merged and so the history needed to remain, and so I voted accordingly. I also then do not see the point in a redirect result in a VfD, if someone is going to ignore the decision and keep reverting it to the prior state. Steve block 09:41, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If the consensus was to not have the page as it was when listed at VfD, but to have a redirect to some other article, and someone reverts the redirect to the page that was originally listed at VfD, it's considered vandalism. (Same as recreating a deleted page with the same content). However, unless I've missed something, it doesn't look like Physical space is a redirect; it looks like the VfD was closed (two days ago) but nothing was done. -- Essjay · Talk 09:49, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

That's because it has been reverted. Steve block 09:54, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The article has been reverted back to the redirect. If there is a revert war, it will be dealt with accordingly. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 09:52, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ah, I see. I was thrown because the VfD template was still at the top; odd that they would revert but not remove the VfD template. Good to see it's been taken care of. -- Essjay · Talk 09:57, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

Where does it say categorize people by surname?

Hello!

I noticed that the Musicians category was a mess with some sorting by surname and some sorting by first name. I assumed that it should sensibly be done by surname, but I want to check before I commit man-days of effort!!

Thanks

Brequinda 08:28, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, categories should be organised by surname, although it gets a little bit complicated with Asian names, and with some European names too (those with 'van' or 'de' or similar in the name). If you're happy dealing with such exceptions, or just want to sort those names that don't include such complications, then each name should have a sort code, for example John Webster (musician) should go in [[Category:Musicians|Webster, John]].-gadfium 09:32, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

APA style puts the extra bit as part of the surname, like "van der Chappelle, Christopher" or whatnot. They've already made the tough choice of how to rationalise them for English-language usage, so maybe you should follow their example! Master Thief Garrett^Talk 20:36, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Question that I don't know what I should name...

Is there anyway that I could (for personal uses) put a floating edit window directly on an article page. The article page will not be accesible to the public as of now. Lemme see, ok, You go to an article and instead of click Edit This Page there is already a miniature edit window floating on the page. If anyone is interested about seeing the page that I would like to do this for then go here: User:Jaberwocky6669/Checkers!. WHat I plan is: put a small floating edit window to the right of each board so quick changes can be made on the fly! Jaberwocky6669 05:13, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

Um, you might be able to edit your user CSS to do this. Failing that, you could code a javascript engine to use with the Greasemonkey Firefox extension. Master Thief Garrett^Talk 05:44, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ok, over my head lol. What is my user CSS? Jaberwocky6669 16:45, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

I'm afraid to say I really don't know! The interface you're reading and writing with now is fully engineered with CSS (Cascading Style Sheets, a layout and formatting definition language) but apparently each user can run a modified version instead. I don't know how though, sorry! :( Master Thief Garrett^Talk 20:31, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

1923 PD Rule

My understanding is that the PD status of works published before 1923 applies only to items published in the USA. So, everything, and anything else does not fall under this rule. So, how is Britannica in the Public Domain? Peregrine981 04:15, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

Um, I'm fairly certain that it's the other way around--that in the US things are PD if before 19XX (varies between mediums) whereas elsewhere, even the country of origin, it might not be. The US cannot possibly take thousands of law clauses from the various countries into effect in every case, so judges everything solely under their own law. So that's no doubt the explanation you're looking for. Garrett^Talk 09:53, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

I thought it was wikimedia policy to apply the law of the country of creator if possible.

Also, isn't it kind of silly to label things as "public domain" without specifying what country it is public domain in? It certainly seems as though legal complications could certainly arise, with this kind of simplistic labelling. Peregrine981 11:59, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

The 1911 ed of Britannica was published in New York. All editions since then have been American. Apwoolrich 12:45, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Okay, then it all works out, although I still think its a bit misleading to have such a general PD licence, when the picture is clearly more complicated than we are presenting it, especially since wikipedia has such an international readership. Peregrine981 13:22, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

SlimVirgin

Someone please help SlimVirgin. Her edits on July 11, 2005 at Talk:Terri Schiavo indicate levels of arrogance so uncharacteristic of her, I feel someone who knows her well should have a talk with her. Hope you get better soonest Ms. Virgin !!! 4.250.168.51 03:35, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Open Tasks - Project Clarification

I decided to take on one of the stated requests:to create a page of Greek municipalities by area (see Community Portal - Open Tasks - Requests - Greek cities by area). My problem is that Wikipedia already has a List of municipalities of Greece, many of which also include the area.

How do I find out more information about this request and what is exactly being asked?

Tim Graff 02:35, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

Need VFD closed

A VFD was created for In flagrante delicto on April 21 and it seems to have been forgotten about. Can an admin close it please? Thanks! Tufflaw 15:24, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

It's a incomplete nomination, where step 3 was never made. When you find one of these old VfDs, look at the Special:Whatlinkshere output for it; you will find no link from the VfD log pages. You just need to complete the nomination (adding to today's log, just like I did for this one) and wait some more days. --cesarb 15:46, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Why is Disneyland Resort Station (MTR) protected?

There's nothing in the page history or on the Talk page to indicate any past problems warranting protection. Russ Blau (talk) 16:30, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

This has no entry on the Protected page list and doesn't even have the {{protected}} tag! Please raise this issue at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection and I'm sure it will be quickly opened (if it isn't already as I type this). Garrett^Talk 21:50, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

• 08:43, June 10, 2005 PZFUN protected Disneyland Resort Station (MTR) (protecting until naming consensus is reached.)

I don't think a naming discussion warrants a complete protection, maybe it's protected against moves only? I'll unprotect if it's not the case. - Mgm|^(talk) 09:25, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

'One word for many' softwares

It is easy enough to find the meaning(s) of a single word, with very effective and useful tools like wikipedia available. But what happens when you have more than one word, like a phrase or an expression? Are there any such tools available for download or on a CD? I mean something like a revese dictionary. If there are, I would be really pleased to know about them. -anon

I would say Google with quotes around the phrase is the way to go. Example: Goon of fortune Google search Spalding 21:17, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

Drawing Graphics in WIKIPEDIA

Hello WIKI-FOLK,

I'm a real newbie, so pardon if I'm asking a dumb question in the wrong place.

I have a notion that at some stage, after lurking & learning, I'd like to contribute a page about a topic which enthuses me, and I haven't seen explicitly seen (yet - I'm not real good at searching) in the WIKIPEDIA.

The topic will require me to draw "straight lines" and "circles" and "ellipses."

Is ther a graphic tool available from the WIKI-PEDIA toolbox - or should I use an external tool, and import an image ?

Thanks for your time, ozogg.

You could try any of the programs from our List of vector graphics editors page. To import it into Wikipedia, you will probably want to save it as a PNG file, and then go to [[Special::Upload]] to upload it. Ojw 21:16, 9 July 2005 (UTC)

What do I do about this "problem" article?

I have stumbled upon the entry Goon of Fortune which strikes me as something that should be drastically modified or even deleted from Wikipedia (The entry gives the instructions for a drinking game). Though the content of the entry certainly seems problematic to me, I can't really fit it into a category of something Wikipedia is not, and I can't find a strong clear reason it should be deleted. What is the best thing to do with this article? MinorEdit July 9, 2005 00:09 (UTC)

• Is it verifiable? Is it notable? -- Jmabel | Talk July 9, 2005 01:01 (UTC)
• It looks like it may be a how-to more suitable for Wikibooks. --Dmcdevit July 9, 2005 01:09 (UTC)

Is there any way to edit an edit summary after saving an edit?

Like comments in computer programs, edit summaries can often be out of date, a revision or two behind the actual edit. For instance, in my recent edit to Common sense, I wikified a book title, and needed a couple of iterations to get it right, but since I added the edit summary first, I forgot to update that, so it points to a red link. One thing I may do is get in the habit of leaving the edit summary until I am done previewing and I am satisfied with the edit. But is there any way to go back and edit a saved one?

Also, on edit summaries, good ones would save a lot of time by allowing the reader to avoid opening the article based on the descriptiveness of the edit summary, but all too often they are blank. Also, is including links in them a good thing to do? I like those as a reader. I'll look for a guideline. Thanks, Spalding July 8, 2005 16:41 (UTC)

• Although not pratical, or recommended, an admistrative rollback would erase the entry, and the edit, I believe.

As far as the link in the summary, do you mean the section link? If so, it's just a shortcut to allow someone to get to that section to see that area and/or change. If it doesnt work, that happens all to often anyway, and I just scroll down to where I need to be, or hit diff to see what was modified. I have good faith that most registered users are making good edits, so shorter summaries do not catch my eye as much as a blank summary or an anon edit. <>Who?¿? 8 July 2005 17:28 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll just try to be more careful - oops! I should have checked the talk page for Wikipedia:edit summary first (Wikipedia_talk:Edit_summary). There is an extensive discussion on the subject there that includes how to make a dummy edit for the purpose of correcting an erroneous edit summmary. Spalding 21:19, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

Wow, I thought I was being of "some help", and you helped me. Didn't realize that was there. Thanks :) <>Who?¿? 09:54, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

NPOV disputes

Background

A few weeks back I discovered the articles on kilobyte, megabyte, etc. At the time the kilobyte article was strongly worded to suggest that a kilobyte is defined as 1000 bytes and that although other people use another definition (1024 bytes), those people are wrong.

Now I've been working with computers all my life, I'm a professional software developer with a computer science degree. In my experience the 1024-byte kilobyte is by far the most common definition in use. Although it doesn't agree with SI units, the byte is not an SI unit. The term "kilo-" is used by analogy with SI rather that precise agreement with SI. The value of 1024 is useful and is the standard among software developers.

So I immediately recognised this as a POV article, and boldly modified it to better describe my experience of reality. My changes were immediately reverted and I was told that I should discuss any changes I wanted to make on the talk page. This I did, but first I used the template to mark the article as POV. Quickly a minor edit-war eventuated, the other parties removed the POV comment every time they contributed to the discussion.

I realised I was getting too heated about the debate shortly afterward and drew away from editing and contributing to those articles.

Questions

The whole experience leaves me with a few questions:

1. What is the process for adding a POV template to the top of an article, and later removing it? I found that it was removed as soon as I put it there. At one point I was accused of not coming on regularly enough, how often is regularly enough?
2. I found that I was a lone voice against two or three people defending a extreme point of view. Is there some way to flag a POV dispute to give it wider attention? Hopefully to get neutral people involved?
3. Is there a page that tells people what to do in these circumstances? "How to work out your differences?"

Thanks in advance for your help.

Ben Arnold 8 July 2005 03:23 (UTC)

OK, lessee... first of all the thing to do when dealing with POV in an article is find how new it is.

• If something's crept in within about the last three editors--NOT edits, editors, someone with an agenda could add something and it go unnoticed for up to a week--then you'd have more justification for your concerns.
• If it's been in the article for a while it'll require treading carefully.

Either way, be sure that you raise your concerns BEFORE applying the tag. Leave your concerns there, and let others read it. Give it about a day or so and THEN apply the tag.

The thing is that "silently" applying the tag can rub people up the wrong way. They've been happily editing an article and suddenly have some upstart come and (indirectly) accuse them of being "bigoted" by labelling "their" article as having a questionable POV. "How dare you?!? I know my topic!" they cry! So you must always question first, and mark later. MUCH later, ideally.

Backing out was VERY wise of you! :) The lack of contact (or of a target to hurl abuse at) allows everyone to cool down, and, hopefully, allow a compromise to be made.

1. A POV tag is added when there's a clearly visible dispute well underway with lots of name-calling and nasty stuff. Therefore someone adds a POV tag, people stop killing each other, and when everyone's calm it gets removed. But if something's crept in and no-one disputes its rectification, there is no POV issue at all, a quick edit or two will fix it without needing the tag in the first place.
   • In the case you speak of it is likely because there was no sign of a dispute (as yet) on the Talk page. Also see the above about the order of "accusation" :)
   • As for not being on often enough, that's ridiculous. Certainly if someone asks for your input and you have access to a computer you should do your best to reply to them, but as for putting in a set number of hours, no... we're not getting paid by WP, so there's no expectation of you doing your "20-hour week" for us! Just come on when and if you feel like it. :)
2. Um, not sure. If things get really gnarly you can ask for Arbitration, but I'd say there would be other ways. For example posting about it here would probably be acceptable (IMO of course), or, alternately, find a "parent page" and discuss there. For example, say there was a dispute on the Star Wars: Episode I page. You could simply go to Star Wars and tell the editors there to get a wider audience.
3. Um, I think Wikipedia:Wikistress covers some things but that's more about how to not get into a battle in the first place!

Anyway, hope that covered everything all... um... clearly. And if not ask some more! :) Master Thief Garrett^Talk 8 July 2005 04:48 (UTC)

I suspect I was one of the "extremists" you were referring to. Let me try and explain what happened. You made an edit which added a few paragraphs to Kilobyte discussing the hard drive manufacturers problem ("The other definition, 1,000 bytes, was first used by manufacturers of data storage devices as advertising spin to inflate claims about the storage capacity of their products.") Because there was already an in-depth discussion of this at Binary prefix, your edit was reverted without a proper explanation, and I can see why you were annoyed at this.

Unfortunately what then happened was that there was a war over whether the POV tag should be present on the article until your points, most of which were totally valid, were discussed. I and the others found it irritating that you wanted the article to remain tagged for several days over some quite trivial and easily-fixed problems, and it seemed that you were more interested in keeping the article tagged than in improving it. Now I see that you simply wanted to point people at the discussion, and I apologise for calling you a troublemaker.

I think the general idea is that the POV tag is directed at casual users rather than editors. It's supposed to alert them not to take everything the article says at face value. On articles like these which deal with pure matters of fact, it seems silly to have such a prominent alert when the dispute is only about small matters of wording or balance.

I'm sorry that you were discouraged. In arguments like these, I often find it helpful to remember that I'm here to make as good an encyclopedia as possible, and that's more important than having articles worded as strongly as I would sometimes like. In the case of Kilobyte, there was a lack of balance before you came along, and your actions have caused it to be corrected. So relax. :) – Smyth\^talk 8 July 2005 09:38 (UTC)

Thanks for all the food for thought. This is the first "battle" I've been a major particpant in and I hoped to learn some lessons from it.

I guess the main thing I learned was that if I find an article that seems to need a lot of change, be circumspect and make changes slowly. This gives other people a chance to vet each change. My biggest mistake was to change a whole lot of things at once.

If I get a surge of enthusiasm at some stage I might see if I can consolidate this and write something to give people a bit of advice for how to deal with these situations. No promises though!

Ben Arnold 9 July 2005 01:13 (UTC)

If anyone needs images for articles

I'm making them as requested. User:CAPS LOCK/ImageRequests

I'm posting this under assistance because I've seen a number of people post here asking for somebody to take a photo of foo.

You might also want to keep an eye on Wikipedia:Requested pictures which is where we normally request pictures. Ojw 21:12, 9 July 2005 (UTC)

Issue of trust and copyright paranoia: complicated process to upload pictures which were already permitted

I placed several photos in the Opus Dei article, my first ever attempt. I was given permission by the organization to publish them under GFDL. However, an official of Wikipedia who was editing the article (just to state the facts: he made anti-Opus Dei edits) did not allow the photos to appear in the article due to copyright issues.

He said: If the photos were commissioned, we need clear evidence of that. Stating that they were published on the Opus Dei website and you have permission from them to republish them is not sufficient. What was the nature of the contract, and who entered it? You need permission from the specific person who entered the contract with the photographer, and that contract needs to clearly state that all rights are transferred to the contracting party. Finally, the party holding the copyrights must explicitly agree to release the photos under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License or a similar free license (see Wikipedia:Image use policy). In the interest of transparency, it would be best for you to fully document your correspondence in this regard.

I replied: Once I have obtained the correspondence, how will I show it here to prove that it is authentic?

The answer: I would say that putting the text of the correspondence online is sufficient - we try to assume good faith - but that's just my opinion. To get more general feedback on the matter, I suggest visiting the Wikipedia:Village pump.

Please help to clarify what I need to do. I find it strange that this is a very complicated process. I looked at that the other image description pages and the word of the one uploading is trusted. But I am ready to do what is needed. You can check how the exchange went at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Opus_Dei Thank you. Walter Ching 7 July 2005 23:49 (UTC)

Appropriateness of a link on "Post Apocalyptic Science Fiction" page

I've never seen this before, wondering where to go to find where this sort of thing is arbited. On this page (Post Apocalyptic SF), there is a link to the novel "Full Circle" by an author named Boyle. The link is not to a Wiki page, but to a personal website describing the book. The URL indicates that it belongs to either the author of the book, or a relative. This seems to go against the rules about promoting oneself. The book is published by controversial vanity press PublishAmerica as well (in other words, this is not a writer who was published professionally by a legitimate publisher). My understanding was that it was not okay to have inner links go to outside pages, only websites listed below the main article, and that this kind of publicity for one's self is a no-no.67.10.131.229 5 July 2005 21:38 (UTC)

• There are occasions when an inline external link is apropriate, but in a long list of internal links is clearly not one of them. As we don't appear to have an article on the book - and from your comments it doesn't appear noteable enough for one - I have removed the entry from the list completely. We're not exactly short of examples in the list so one fewer entry wont harm it. (The page in question is Apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic science fiction). Thryduulf 6 July 2005 11:05 (UTC)

Can't move page to deleted redir page--why?

Someone created Francais Blanc et Noir as a redirect to Francais blanc et noir instead of moving the latter to the former. So I deleted the former, but now when I try to move Francais blanc et noir to Francais Blanc et Noir, it says I can't because the articles have the same name. I've never had this problem doing this same thing before. Anyone know what's up? I don't see anything reported in the 1.5 bugs. Elf | Talk 5 July 2005 01:54 (UTC)

I just moved it. -SV|t 5 July 2005 02:25 (UTC)

Thx. I wonder what the problem was? Elf | Talk 5 July 2005 02:44 (UTC)

could have been the database timing lag: it does not update immediately, if you just deleted the page. Wait about a minute or so next time. mikka (t) 5 July 2005 03:53 (UTC)

I waited about 5 minutes, actually, and tried again. Maybe I should've waited even longer. But--I have no patience! That's why I hang around on Wikipedia instead of doing something that actually pays the bills. :-) Elf | Talk 5 July 2005 04:26 (UTC)

• You do realize the move destination is the same as the current page by default? You probably typed the destination in the reason field when it didn't work. - Mgm|^(talk) July 5, 2005 11:43 (UTC)

How to fix systematic misspelling of "threshold" as "threshhold" throughout Wikipedia?

Is there any way other than manually plowing through? I can't program a bot, so I think someone before suggested contacting a bot person? How could this have happened? Thanks, Spalding July 4, 2005 10:17 (UTC)

• There's several typo projects running. You could leave a note at the Humanbot project... - Mgm|^(talk) July 4, 2005 11:00 (UTC)

OK, thanks. I did leave a note there, but I'm not really sure how this bot stuff works - it looks like there are no active projects. I downloaded Greasemonkey and the user script, but I have to wait for a project to use them? I'll try to learn a little about Greasemonkey first. Spalding July 4, 2005 19:33 (UTC)

No, with this particular thing you have to wait for him to run the bot. Either that or code your own. Each bot has to be given special permission to run, as it could easily **** things up. Master Thief Garrett^Talk 5 July 2005 04:23 (UTC)

Airline articles and an anon poster(s)

This is not vandalism, but a series of questionable edits with the discription of (Updated and made consistent).

These edits remove any tables in the article and replace them with text that contains less information. They replace templates with a heading and text that replaces direct links with redirects. They also either remove the owner of the airline or bury the owner at the bottom of the text. They include the destinations back into the main article from the destinations article and change the heading to Services. The destinations are added in one sentence, making something difficult to read and the bots have to disambig some of the entries. This editor makes changes to the content of the articles that other editors discussed over a period of time to reach the point were it was.

While some of the edit changes are good, these changes also combine unrelated points into one paragraph, not good. I have seen this on AirTran Airways and America West Airlines. Since America West was the second time I saw this, I'm bring it here. Don't know what the best place to discuss this is.

Was there an airline project to standardize these pages that I'm not aware of? How do we deal with something like this. Vegaswikian 3 July 2005 18:55 (UTC)

• Tables were agreed upon in the Airport wikiproject, right? I'd just revert with a detailed explanation in the edit summary. - Mgm|^(talk) July 4, 2005 10:59 (UTC)
  • Yes, but this is about airlines, so close but also different. I decided to start a sister project to that, Wikipedia:WikiProject Airlines to allow discussion about this since it is as important as the airport project. I'll flesh that out and see where it leads. Thanks for the reminder about projects. Vegaswikian 5 July 2005 00:18 (UTC)

Wikiproject Echo

WikiProject Echo is looking for participants to integrate information from other-language Wikipedias into the English one. The scope is to find articles present in another Wikipedia but not this one, and echo and translate them here. Some language skills recommended. Radiant_>|< 13:25, July 23, 2005 (UTC)

Mark_Hatfield NPOV or Vandalism.

Could someone please take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hatfield and let me know whether they consider the repeated recent postings from the IP address represent an NPOV dispute or vandalism. I have reverted the same addition of text three times.

Naraht 02:00, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

I think it's clear that it's neither inarguable vandalism nor explicit bad faith. See WP:-(. I note that you have not attempted to discuss this material either on the article's talk page, or on the contributing user's talk page. Having said that, the text does seem POV to me. At the least, its claims are sufficiently forthright that they need to be attributed to specific people and have their source cited. Bovlb 04:29:39, 2005-07-24 (UTC)

FWIW, your most recent edit didn't actually revert the text in question (despite the edit summary claiming it did). Rl 09:01, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Posted a article but didn't log in?

Ok I wrote and posted a article but thougth I was logged in but it was timed out, is there a way I can change it so its added to my contributions now?

Thanks --Djanvk 09:58, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

see Wikipedia:Changing attribution for an edit. Thryduulf 12:14, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Thesis Statement

Can someone help me? An anonymous user edited the Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Thesis Statement to blank the page. I went to the history and pulled up the version prior to the blanking and tried to save that, but when the save took, the page was still blank. I did it again, did a Show Preview prior to the edit, and saw a good page, and saved again, but it is still blank. I did a Refresh and also a Control-F5, but I still see only a blank page. John Barleycorn 05:34, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

I added an unnecessary character at the bottom of the page to force an edit, and that seems to have done the trick. John Barleycorn 05:37, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

Post

I want to post/contribute an article about "Exploring the Last Frontier" how can I do that ?

Building a new Wiki

I love Wikipedia and the way it works. So much so that I want to set up my own for a specialized purpose. To aid my new users, I'd like to copy large portions of Wikipedia, in particular the Help, Tutorial, and Template pages. These would be tailored to fit the application, but the existing pages would be a great head start for the new Wiki. Is it possible to copy those pages in bulk? Is it legal? How can it be done (relatively) easily? --129.198.241.67 23:30, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Somewhere or other there's an export function that I think lets you save pages as raw wiki code. Failing that, you'd have to edit and copy-n-paste each; that's quick, but only if the wiki you're moving to uses MediaWiki markup--for example Peanut Butter Wiki uses some different symbols to create formatting. As for legality, I assume you can just put a "content taken from" like the sites at Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks do. Hope that helps. :) Garrett^Talk 01:05, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

---

I have a kind request. There is a problem on the Wikipedia Article For Sathya Sai Baba (SSB).

This article has links to both Pro and Anti SSB articles. However, my link is NOT being allowed. There was a section entitled "Rebuttals" that had only three links, including my site (SaiSathyaSai.com).

My site is the ONLY systematized site that specifically addresses (in my opinion) unsubstantiated and serious claims made on Anti-SSB sites. Since an entire section is devoted to Anti-SSB Sites, there should also be a Rebuttals section that provides information that happens to be 100% relevant to Sathya Sai Baba. Willmcw has gone to great extents to promote Anti-SSB sites and to remove sites that counter their claims. This is unfair and biased. It shouldn't be allowed. He removed the "Rebuttals" section without any open discussion. You can view the discussion here.

The current article for Sathya Sai Baba is, by no means, indicative of the majority opinion regarding SSB. The entire article is mottled with Anti-SSB remarks and links.

I believe that the Rebuttals section is relevant and the following three links should be reposted:

1) http://www.geocities.com/the_sai_critic/

2) http://www.saisathyasai.com/

3) http://www.saibaba-aclearview.com/

It is important to point out that NONE of the Pro-SSB links cited, provide any rebuttals to the Anti-SSB remarks and links. These three links are the ONLY ones that do.

Please tell me what I must do to have this situation resolved amicably and fairly.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

SSS108 15:58, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Your account has only one edit to that page. Why don't you try working with the other people before running for help? Secondly, fighting to add links to your own site is heavily frowned upon. Third, the external links section on that page is already a mile long. Wikipedia is not a web index, and articles are not supposed to carry exhaustive links on a subject. -- Cyrius|✎ 18:03, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

---

Cyrius, I edited the page several times without logging on. I am new to this site and I am not entirely familiar with it by any means. My link keeps being removed. Willmcw decided to remove the category and he and Andries (who happens to be the webmaster and contact for the largest Anti-SSB site on the internet) have the page under their control. THEY are choosing the content. My link would not be listed under "external links". It would be listed under "Rebuttals". I never posted any other link except my own. The only "fighting" that was done, was in relation to an attack page against me. I felt that if the attack link against me could be posted there (although it was irrelevant to the topic), I should also be allowed to post my response. Willmcw would not allow this, although he allowed the other link! Something is seriously wrong and it needs to be addressed. What are my other options?

SSS108 18:46, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Userpage which is just advertisement

Should the page of User:InternetBali.com stay? The account was created to add spam links and the userpage contains text advertisement, nothing else. Are there some rules/precedents how to deal with such pages? Pavel Vozenilek 22:53, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

WP is not a free web host, so, no, this breaks rules. This has been done before and I'm sure it was merely blanked/deleted. Garrett^Talk 00:54, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

I've speedily deleted the user page. It was so blatant an ad I didn't see any reason to waste people's time on it. -- Cyrius|✎ 04:12, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Use of GFDL images

I originally posted this question on the Wikimedia Commons Village Pump [3] but didn't get a response, so I'm reposting it here:

I used a few images from Commons:Rio de Janeiro as backgrounds for logos on my (more-or-less-commercial) website. [4] [5] ) Both are licensed under the GFDL. I need to know what information I need to include in order for my use of the images to be correct, but some cursory research didn't help me out. (Unfortunately, the wikipedia article on the GFDL doesn't mention its restrictions for image licensing!) If it were text, I could very easily tack a GFDL notice onto it, but since these are navigational images for a larger web page it wouldn't work to slap a bunch of licensing text at the bottom. What's the very least I have to do to conform to the GFDL, and what method would you recommend to include the information in as small a footprint on my site as possible? (For example, could I reference the GFDL in the image's ALT tag on the page?) Thanks -- — Adam Conover † 19:11, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

I think the minimum you coudl do is mention the GFDL in teh ALT tag and have a link back to Wikipedia. IANAL though so you ought to check, you might find people knowledgeable if you post at talk:GNU Free Documentation License, Wikipedia talk:Copyrights and/or Wikipedia talk:Mirrors and forks. Thryduulf 20:33, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Personally I would make sure a copyright notice is linked from every page, listing the images which are GFDL and the sources and authors. Rhobite 03:05, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

Use of a Wikipedia article in print

Q: How do I make a bibliography entry for a Wikipedia article that I have quoted in print?

A: See Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia gkhan 17:39, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

Can't Log In

I haven't logged in (as AlexSwanson) for several months, so when I couldn't this afternoon I figured I had been removed for non-usage and recreated myself. A couple of hours later I still exist but my password doesn't work. Help! 18:20 20 July 2005 (UTC+1)

We don't remove users for non-usage. User:AlexSwanson has existed for several months. I don't know what user you created this afternoon, but it wasn't that one. If you supplied an e-mail address when you first registered, then you can have your password sent to you. If you didn't, and if you can't remember your original password, then I think you may be out of luck, and will have to create yet another account. Bovlb 18:33:39, 2005-07-20 (UTC)

I can remember my original password, it just doesn't work. User:AlexSwanson is a new page I created yesterday. I will try having the password sent to me, to see what the system thinks it is. AS 07:55 21 July 2005 (UTC+1)

To clarify, the user page for User:AlexSwanson was created the other day, but the user's contributions are back in January. BTW, mailing the password will create a new password which will also work until you change your password. Bovlb 13:21:06, 2005-07-21 (UTC)

Well, whatever was happening, seems to be sorted now, thanks for the help. AS 01:48 23 July 2005 (UTC+1)

Mud Fish

is there such a thing??

No. Please knock off the nonsense. - 67.52.188.182 17:16, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

I think there might be a mud fish and no nonsense.

Do you mean the Mudskipper? Moriori 00:15, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

Korean naming convention: Sea of Japan/East Sea

Sorry for crossposting, but I am desparate to involve as many Wikipedians as possible. We've discussed the matter endlessly, and now have a vote to help us reach consensus: Korean naming convention what order should Sea of Japan and East Sea be used in the articles? Kokiri 08:41, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Flying VfDs under the radar

A series of VfDs have been proposed for Moral compass, Elliott Valenstein, and Thought police, in an apparent attemptt at marginalization. The moral compass article has been updated to address criticisms brought up on its VfD page; instead of addressing shortcomings on the discussion page, it was blindsided with a VfD. While these articles certainly could use attention and cleanup, the significance of each is greater than many trivial articles and stubs. Wikipedians may now be in danger of wandering adrift, as the vote stands now, if the Wikipedia loses its moral compass. Ombudsman 05:18, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

• If a page significantly improved since being nominated, the best thing to do is to inform earlier voters about the change (and ask them to reconsider their vote) and to put a note on the vfd page to inform the closing admin. - Mgm|^(talk) 10:33, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

British vs American spelling

Can someone help me find the part of the Wikipedia How-To Guide that mentions British vs American spelling? ♥purplefeltangel 02:12, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Manual of Style#National varieties of English and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (spelling). —Cryptic (talk) 02:35, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Merci buckets. ♥purplefeltangel 02:36, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Editwar on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Albrecht Prinz von Croy and Talk:Albrecht Prinz von Croy

Hello together, may anyone (perhaps a sysop because of the right to close pages) please have a look on these two pages and cool down the editwar. I don't understand, what's going wrong there. Thanks a lot - --Rax 01:17, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

WikiProjects in need of assistance

I've sifted the WikiProjects, and here are the lonely ones that could do with a bit of love and attention. Please sign up as a participant if you see one you can contribute to!

Architecture; Baseball; Cheeses; Christian liturgical year; Computer music; Dance

Eurovision; Family and relationships; Fictional series; Finnish provinces; Fluid dynamics; Gastropods

Geologic timescale; German districts; Hats and headgear; Herbs and spices; Historical states; History of Scandinavia

History of Sweden; Holmes; Horse breeds; Irish literature; Japanese districts and municipalites; Jesus

Knots; Latin alphabet; Leaders by year; Library of Congress Country Studies assimilation; Materials; Numismatics

Oregon Wikigroup Project; Philately; Playground; Prussia; Prussian Kreise; Prussian provinces

Prussian Regierungsbezirke; Prussian Standesamter; Radio and television; Royal Air Force squadrons; School Years; South Africa

Swedish cities; Taiwanese counties; Television Schedules; Theme songs; Time; Transnistria

Transportation in China; Treaties; U.S. politicians; U.S. special districts; UK subdivisions (Northern Ireland)

UK subdivisions (Scotland); Wikipedia:WikiProject UK subdivisions (Wales); United Nations; Vikings

Viruses; Wars; Wikification; Wikipedia Namespace; Writing Captions; Years; Years in science

Thank you for your time Steve block talk 23:02, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Also Airlines Vegaswikian 23:09, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia:WikiProject Community +sj + 17:02, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Deleted, re-created, then Vfd tag added

The article "Stephan Kinsella" was deleted some time ago. It has now been re-created, and someone has just added a Vfd tag without recreating a proper vote page, and without adding reasons for re-deletion. What should be done? Is there any policy for this? Thanks for your assistance. --Edcolins 15:18, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

It's alright, I have now the answer on how to proceed to create a Vfd renomination. See Stephan Kinsella Vfd heading. --Edcolins 18:28, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Computer generated Speech - Possible Vandalism

Hi All,

I've happened upon the computer generated speech page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_speech_recognition) on random, and it just contains a row of 'w's. I looked at the history to see if I could revert it back, but didn't see any prior sensible versions - they were all the same.

Can someone more experienced with wikipedia have a look at this?

Thanks.

217.39.44.38 11:50, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

It was either vandalism or an editing experiment - but as these w's were the only thing in the editing history I simply deleted that page, so it's now ready for creating the article again. andy 11:56, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

what solution can be added to prevent the melted plastics to dried up or cooled off?

july 19,2205:what solution can be added to prevent the melted plastics to dried up or cooled off?

61.9.78.3 12:18, 19 July 2005 (UTC):what solution can be added to prevent the melted plastics to dried up or cooled off?

Library of Congress / Dewey / Colon Classification Code Usage

What is WikiPedia's policy regarding using Library of Congress Classification Codes, Dewey Codes or Colon Classification Codes? What is the policy re listing BT, NT, RT for Broader, Narrower and Related Terms as an alternative to "See also"?--merosonox 05:50, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

You mean giving pages here an ID #? That has problems. The wiki is so open and mutating that categorising is hard enough as it is with the Category: system, let alone applying a dead-tree numeric system intended for fixed-content works.

Or is this not what you're meaning? If not please elaborate. :) Garrett^Talk 02:21, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Ever seen The Matrix? You know the scene where all the guns, rifles, grenades, bombs, etc fly out? The map may not be the territory but this digital empire still exists. Only when WikiPedia ceases to exist will its components be scattered across the desert of the real.

"A database is only as blind as it's best searching algorithms." - Terence McKenna, on interpreting Marshall McLuhan

Dealing with a bizarrely hostile editor

I'd like to request that someone experienced take a look at Italian Beef and especially Talk:Italian Beef and see if they can come up with a way to resolve the dispute there in a reasonable manner. (In brief, an anonymous editor using a variety of IP's refuses to allow any edits of which they don't personally approve, and generally responds to all communication with obscenities, insults, and rants against Wikipedia.) --Dcfleck 03:16, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Implementing own alphabetical index ???

Does anyone know how to implement an alphabetical index for one's own mediawiki like the one here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Quick_index

Copying the source code across should work. All this does is call the special page listing every page existing, so it should be transferable. Hope this helps, smoddy 18:14, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

It doesn't seem to be that easy. I tried copying the code but whichever two letter prefix I click on, it always display a list of ALL of my pages. Ideas?

How many pages do you have? If its very few, then it won't display them from a particular point. Is there a link I could have a look at? smoddy 19:34, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

"If its very few, then it won't display them from a particular point" <-- What do you mean? I do have very few pages (about 10-15), but others I know had trouble and they had hundreds of pages. Unfortunately I don't have a link for you since its on a private intranet. Actually I was slightly wrong about what I said before about displaying all the pages. It actually displays all the pages that start with any prefix AFTER the one you search for. For example, if I search for pages that begin with "Pr" it will display all the pages start with "Pr" PLUS all the pages that start with start with Q, etc. through the ones that start with Z. I guess that's how the behavior is supposed to be. Seems like it works that way on wikipedia.org as well.

what is this "www.wikipedia.org"? It's not you guys I think

I never used wikipedia before but I'd heard of it so I googled wikipedia. The top rank was wikipidia.org which I assumed was the correct thing. What I got looked a lot like a search page but all I received were what were obviously paid commercial links. It was nothing but a low grade ad server masquerading as a dictionary. I tried googling "wiki" an finally managed to find the real site, but what was that thing!? Shouldn't someone be getting sued here? I've never seen a more blatant example of parasitic sleaze.

Did you spell your original search correctly? When I Google "Wikipedia, I get our site, but if I enter Wikipidia, I get the site I believe you're referring to. Joyous (talk) 15:41, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

Commenting on numbered lists

Is there a way to make a comment in a numbered list, and keep the numbering consistent?

Example 1:

1. fred
2. bob

• 1. comment to bob

1. sara
2. sally

Wiki markup
# fred
# bob
*# comment to bob
# sara
# sally

Example 2:

1. fred
2. bob

comment to bob

1. sara
2. sally

Wiki markup
# fred
# bob
; comment to bob
# sara
# sally

Example 3:

1. fred
2. bob

comment to bob

1. sara
2. sally

Wiki markup
# fred
# bob
:comment to bob
# sara
# sally

The numbering starts over after any type of break. I have tried several different ways, and there is nothing listed on wiki markup. Any suggestions? ∞Who?¿? 09:53, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

You just need to reverse Example 1: #* instead of *#

1. fred
2. bob
   • comment to bob
3. sara
4. sally

-- Michael Warren | Talk 10:18, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

D'oh! Thanks for the reply, I could have swore I tried that :) ∞Who?¿? 20:21, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Greasemonkey

Would anyone mind making a grasemonkey script that lets you add tabs to the top in monobook and specify something for each tab to add into an edit box? — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 02:55, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Far simpler would be to tack a line onto the end of the insertion section below. Of course a lot of options would mean a long insertion box, but it'd be easier to do than tabs. Unfortunately my skills only go as far as editing existing addon line code rather than writing it myself.

What I'd suggest you do is find something extremely similar and modify it. That's what I did for LibraryLookup (to search my own library instead of the prepackaged one). Garrett^Talk 03:31, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Template help, please

I'm trying to construct a template {{bioxref}} that I would like to have an optional second parameter. I can't seem to make it work. From reading the Help, I suspect it may not be possible, but from reading other areas, I get the impression that it can be done with some more sophisticated techniques. Can anyone help?

Here's what I'm trying to do: create a hyperlink to a previously-defined target {{{1}}}. If the target is on the same page, then

[[#{{{1}}}|<specialformatting>{{{1}}}</specialformatting>]]

is all that is needed. But if the target is on another page (which is the exception, thus the desire for this to be an optional parameter), then

[[{{{2}}}#{{{1}}}|<specialformatting>{{{1}}}</specialformatting>]]

is what is needed. But if {{{2}}} is omitted (99% of the cases) then we get the template code fragment there instead. I know I can use an extra pipe symbol to hold the place as null on the input, but since the need for another page is the exception, not the rule, I'd like to avoid that in the interests of simplification and ease of use.

I've tried using {{{article}}} instead of {{{2}}}, willing to pay the price of putting article=Imperial Crypt Vaults for the few times it will be used, but the template just substitutes the word "article" when there is no parameter value of that name given.

Is there a way to do what I'd like to do?--StanZegel 20:19, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes. Check out Template:Infobox CVG, it uses several optional components.

I'm not sure with this bookmarking system why you couldn't use {{ref}} and {{note}} though... and to rename a link in that just put a space, for example {{ref|Wikipedia is so cool}} generates ^{[is so cool]}. Garrett^Talk 03:52, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Bot Please

I posted a request at Wikipedia: Bot Requests. I posted it here so that it would gain visibility. Thanks. — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 04:03, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Intelligent Design

I'm just sifting the WikiProjects for active and inactive, and discovered this one, which states This is a project page and therefore does not fall under the wikipedia guidelines. We reserve the right to censor/ban any remark/user that is not in favor of Intelligent Design or constructive to our organization. (Their bold.) It struck me as odd, provocative and untrue.

Thoughts? Steve block 13:27, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

It's odd, provocative and untrue.
First of all, and obviously, that page does fall under Wikipedia guidelines, just not the article guidelines. There's no such thing as ownership for any page in Wikipedia. Even your user pages only have "de facto" ownership because there's community pressure not to edit what the user doesn't want edited, but if the community as a whole decides a page should go or be rewritten, it still is.
So no owners, either individual or collective. In particular, a WikiProject page is not owned by its participants. Furthermore, nobody can "reserve the right" to "ban" (I guess they mean "block") anyone for anything not described under the blocking policy. So effectively this is claiming that "disrupting" the WikiProject in the eyes of its "owners" amounts to disrupting Wikipedia as a whole. That just doesn't fly.
Maybe we need "what WikiProjects are not", in particular: a WikiProject is organized, but not an organization. JRM · Talk 15:00, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

That someone would put that on a Wikiproject about such a contentious topic does not raise hope in their ability to work with others...sigh. -- Cyrius|✎ 16:03, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Since its main purpose appears to be simply to have a list o' links which people can check for easy reference, can it not be userfied to a subpage of User:Dbergan? The page itself does not actually appear to be that provocative, except for the disclaimer (which was removed) and the statement that the page is only for people who are in favor of ID.

By the by, there is precedence for deleting non-neutral or exclusionist wikiprojects: see Wikipedia:Wikiproject/Inappropriate projects, and note for instance Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/GRider/Schoolwatch. — Asbestos | Talk 23:00, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Revert battle in true and truth

The obscurantists insist on having things their own way, ignoring the npov guideline.

anyone heard of a band called Tripod?

Fegh Maha, Middleborough Rd, the list goes on... they all link to this band.

A search for "bands+Tripod" lists Tripod's web hosting on the first page so I'm not convinced this is a very noteworthy band, but I thought I'd ask about it here before I put them up for a speedy. Garrett^Talk 08:57, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

I have redirected the album pages (just lists of songs) to the band's article A curate's egg 13:22, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

OH! I forgot to check here! Thank you. Garrett^Talk 02:46, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Giant bugs that live in the water?

Please tell me some --Wikinative 19:14, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

This is a Reference Desk question. But Arthropods just might fit your question.

New Era (hat company)

Where would this go for a request? --Wimtennis2005 17:30, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Are you looking for someone to create the New Era (hat company) article? You can click on the link in my reply and start writing it yourself. Just add {{corp-stub}} at the bottom if it is a stub. General guidance is on Wikipedia:Requested articles. Happy editing. Vegaswikian 18:06, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Under Requested Articles where should i put it? --Wimtennis2005 18:30, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

I added it for you in a new heading of equipment under baseball which seems to be a reasonable place. Also note the :: characters I added to your response to keep it under the text you were following up on. This is a general practice here. Vegaswikian 18:43, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Revert war @ Wolverine (comics)

It's between new users User:ScifiterX and User:Nightscream concerning the level of detail there should be on speculation (or perhaps fanon) of Wolverine's abilities. ScifiterX wants none whatsoever (trying to adhere to canon?) whereas Nightscream wants some information on the "debate", and/or inconsistency of the issue given there is currently little said on the matter. I have no expertise on Comics; so I have no idea what is appropriate, but since Nightscream requested assistance from me in dispute resolution I'm posting here. (This dispute is also on User talk:Nightscream#Editing Wolverine) - RoyBoy ⁸⁰⁰ 21:10, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Moved rest of debate to Talk:Wolverine (comics) Steve block 12:22, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

Can't figure out how to add info to article

Thought I was fairly intelligent until I tried to understand the "how to's" in Wikipedia.

My original reason for trying to get to a 'post message' page was about the featured article on the Civil Air Patrol. The content here makes it sound like big Boy Scouts. In Yolo County, and other counties, in California the CAP is very active in supporting both sheriff and federal CAMP to constantly patrol areas looking for cannibus, mapping it and calling in the cops and federal agents. This is an on-going active participation in drug enforcement by CAP that has even been written up in the Davis Enterprise some years back.

There is no mention of their DEA-related activities in the article.

My guess is that this self-selecting group (pilots who choose to be in CAP and are accepted into) probably are the more Neo-con conservative types who wish they could actively (but safely) participate in law enforcement and this fulfills all their fantasies. It wouldn't suprise me if the DEA has some way of directing money toward their gasoline and other flying expenses, but then again, these guys have enough money to own planes and fly so maybe the DEA doesn't have to share.

I would like to clarify that I do not use cannibus and never have, although I am a strong supporter of medical cannibus. Also, the huge growing operations in the public forests are usually done by violent criminals and I don't mind them being busted. I do have great objection to CAP patrolling over private property. The article only mentions "search and rescue"--their extensive law enforcement involvement needs to be added.

Crusader Rabbit

Wow! Talk about feeling really stupid...Now I can't seem to find the 'send' button. I can find how to save it (although why and where are mysteries to me) and how to preview it (maybe that will lead to a send button--Nope, no send button there either). The 'show changes' is also a mystery. I'll try them and hope my e-mail isn't erased.

Is there a SIMPLE way to direct people with additional info or correction of an article on how it can get added--either directly or to the oversight group. I did try using the "edit" button but it only produced long lists of things that seemed irrelevant to what I wanted to do.

The "Show changes" button is such a great tease. Wish I could understand how to make the changes it says it will show. Save page indicates it will save my changes. Well, this is getting very confusing. The headline for this page says "Village Pump (assistance) (comment)", not that it directly edits or alters any page or article.

Templates: I tried to see what they did but just got more mysteries.

PLEASE!!!! Can't there be just a SIMPLE send button to get messages to you people?

Do I have to have an account and be logged in in order to communicate with you? I'll try that. Just did that but doesn't seem to provide any remedy.

• It is the save button. You just save to the page you are editing. (Previewing to make sure it looks good is appreciated). If you can edit then you can make changes. (A few pages are protected from editing and the edit button won't be present). Discussion, comments, questions about changes, etc. should go to the talk page, reached by the discussion button. RJFJR 15:49, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

• A few other things I came back to add: You can sign your name by using ~~~~ (it will be replaced, except in this case because I explicitly told it not to). The signature will also be a link to your page so we can leave a message and you'll get a 'new message' message. Please remember to use the edit summary when you post messages. RJFJR 15:59, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
• Maybe you should stop by Wikipedia:Tutorial? - Mgm|^(talk) 10:14, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

Category name changes

This may not be the right place to post this, but there are problems with some category and article name changes that are going through at the moment. Someone has recently changed the lead article Cinema to Film. The naming issue had been discussed on the talk page, but there was never any consensus for a change. However, someone made the change themselves, and has now argued that Film is now the default term and has listed all categories that use the word Cinema in the title for renaming. This has been presented as a simple change based on the lead article being called Film and so people are generally voting for the changes. However, Cinema articles are being forced into a change to Film when it is not appropriate. An attempt to change Category:Cinema by country to Category:Film by country was resisted, but other categories are being changed en masse on the grounds that Film is the default term, when this has never been agreed. I'm not sure how to deal with this, I could always change the lead article back to Cinema but there must be some mechanism for resolving an issue like this. JW 08:40, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Why the heck isn't CAMERA film at Film?!? I mean, cinema may be a term on the decline but at least it wasn't ambiguous as to what the page would be about. "Film" could mean any of a dozen things. Hm. Well I think it was a good idea to bring it here as there's bound to be a solution--maybe even call a Wikipedia-wide vote or something? Garrett^Talk 09:48, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

I am not sure about the articles, I proposed the Category:Cinema by country → Category:Film by country, only as a category standardization. I think there was another one after this, but would have to go check. You may want to take a look at WP:ANI, I think this might be the same user on Talk:Film. Actually, I just went through the history of cinema, and it was merged with film by Grunt on 18:36, 17 August 2004. Still need to discuss the further changes and happenings on all of this, concerning the direction of the articles and categories, if that users persists (User:12.73.198.28). <>Who?¿? 10:07, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Use of the User monobook.js page?

I tried the following as suggested: User:Spalding/monobook.js. I refreshed the cache, but nothing happens in either Firefox or IE, and javascript is enabled in both. Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong? Thanks, Spalding 22:03, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

First of all, try visiting a page you've never ever seen (Special:Random) to see if the new code will appear on it.

Failing that, see if your CSS is faulty. Try changing the entirety of it to something simple like

a:visited { color: #7755dd; }

And see if that changes things. In the case of this example, you should be able to see purple-pink visited links instead of the dark blue color. If not, um, hm. But try that :) Garrett^Talk 23:47, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

What I am trying to do is use javascript in monobook.js to force an edit summary - nothing with CSS. But I am seeing nothing at all as a result of having code in the monobook.js

Oh! JS, right! :) Um, maybe you're using code MediaWiki doesn't like or something? I really don't know... you'd think someone would have replied by now... hmmm... Garrett^Talk 01:06, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Try an alert() at the top of addForceSummary. Last time I tried playing with monobook.js, I couldn't get document.addEventListener to work; the function added as a listener was never called. If you manage to make it work, please tell me how you did it. --cesarb 01:22, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Well, I did at least get Hello world to work as a very nice sanity test with the following snippet from that article (without the quotes, which I hope will prevent execution in this page): "javascript:alert('Hello, world!'); "

(BTW, how do you get those nice boxes with the dotted line outlines?) I don't see any markup for it in edit view. Oh my, the answers are breeding more questions as usual for me! Thanks, I'm at least started now. Another question: wouldn't a link to Hello world be a good addition to almost any article on a programming language? It sure helped me here. Spalding 21:22, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

I did finally get the original javascript to work part of the time (it is very sensitive to purging the browser cache), but it doesn't seem to work if you preview first, which of course is commonly done for most edits. I'll keep playing and experimenting with it. Spalding 11:50, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

Questionable image additions

I'm not sure if this counts as vandalism, but if it does, you can move this message to the VIP page. If you look at the contributions of Inhighspeed, the user seems to be adding pictures to biographical articles some of which already have pictures on them. Most of them seem to be of celebrities without shirts on, when you could easily find better pictures of these people with shirts. It's one thing if it the pictures we in context of the article – some of the pictures were of people who played Tarzan, but clearly you can find and use more relevant pictures of David Arquette and Erik Estrada. Adding three pictures of [Tobey Maguire] without a shirt really doesn't add much to an article. I've marked a few of the user's orphaned uploaded images for deletion. Can anyone assist with the proper course of action to take? --Jtalledo (talk) 18:16, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

I agree. While shirtless photos of celebrities like wrestlers, athletes, models,etc. is appropriate, its questionable for others, especially if they're not known for their physique. If it's someone like Usher or LL Cool J who regularly appear shirtless in their music videos its fine; otherwise its just's not very professional for Wikipedia. --Madchester 06:57, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

Jtalledo, the proper course of action would first be to chill out. You seem to be on a witchhunt here. Okay, I'll admit I've added some pics of my favorite celebs shirtless, but I don't think it counts as vandalism. If any of the pics were inappropriate, then I apologize -- however, just because a pic "doesn't add much to an article," doesn't connote ill intention, and certainly not vandalism. I think you should just calm down and get a hold of yourself. I've done work on other articles that do not include just adding shirtless pics. And I haven't removed other pics from the same articles, as you have alleged in other places on the site. You might in the future contact someone through their Talk page if you wish to discuss something with them, instead of putting libelous talk about them around the site. I'm sure some might consider you an asset to Wikipedia, but you may wish to come down off your high horse, and brush up on your etiquette before going any further.Inhighspeed 00:10, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Furthermore, according to Wikipedia etiquette, you are supposed to notify someone on their Talk page if you put up an image of theirs for deletion, which you did not do. By the way, you sure seem to spend a lot of your time criticizing and editing what others do. I guess it's easier to find fault with others than with ourselves.Inhighspeed 01:34, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Problems with Image:Bamun_artisan.jpg

I uploaded the photograph at right about a week ago. It appears perfectly fine on my Macintosh machine using Safari as my browser, but the picture fails to show up in Internet Explorer on both Windows computers I've tried it on. Can others see the pic? What's wrong with it that's causing Windows or IE to dislike it? BrianSmithson 14:04, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

It looks like the picture is broken (i.e. contains invalid data) and some programs are more strict than others when dealing with such files. The meta data seems to indicate it's a black and white image, altough it isn't. Not sure that is the problem. Anyhow, I suppose the best you can do is open and save the image with a program that produces proper output and then replace the existing image with the new one. Rl 14:16, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Well, I resaved the image and reuploaded. Now it at least shows up on Windows machines -- sometimes. I'm now able to get the image to show itself here and on my user page. However, it's not showing up on Artisan and West Province, Cameroon. Any further ideas about what's going on? BrianSmithson 18:00, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

It shows up in both articles you mentioned. Looks good to me. Rl 08:55, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

3 UK copyright templates

I propose that we add the words "of the UK" to the end of the first line of 3 UK copyright templates. That way it makes more sense of which country it is from. I can not do this because the page is currently protected. Can an admin please help? This will make things clearer. The 3 templates are : Template:NationalAuditOfficeCopyright, Template:LearningandSkillsCouncilCopyright, and Template:NHSCopyright. PS. Am I at the right spot to post this? --michael180 15:36, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

Documenting your deleted entry on a nonwikipedia link.

Your submitted entry gets deleted. You want to keep the entry around on another wiki. What would be a good nonwikipedia wiki that could be well used to document the deleted entry?... keeping it available on the nonwikipedia link.

Trinquier's book La guerre moderne

Can someone help me with this: In how many languages has Trinquier's book "La guerre moderne" been translated?

Neutral Wikipedia?

Dear all

I am writting about the issue of Macedonia, Republic of Macedonia, Macedonian Slavs (like Wikipedia calls the Macedonians) and the problem between Macedonia and Greece about the term Macedonia. I am aware that this issue is largely discussed here, at Wikipedia, and Wikipedia claims that it is trying to take a neutral side. But, that is not the case. Wikipedia is everything except neutral in this question. In the following lines I will explain you why.

From the text in Wikipedia most of the people will conclude that Macedonian nation appeared during the World War 2 and Tito was the one who 'invented' us. The family of my wife (she is Mexican) read this and asked me is it truth. That was actually the first time I read what Wikipedia says about my nation, which was a direct reason for my reaction. My grandfather is born in 1911th. Yesterday I had a talk with him. He took a part in the strugle for independence since 1925th and he took a part in the 2nd world war. He is alive and personal prove that Wikipedia is full of bullshit and lies about our origin. He spent half of his life proving and fighting for that. He was shot 3 times, all 3 from the Bulgarians who wanted to ocupy Macedonia in the Balkan wars and in the WW1 and WW2. Just a 1 min with him will show you how many lies you suport in Wikipedia.

I tried to edit some of the text few days ago, but everithing I wrote was deleted. And all I wrote were facts. Fact 1. Macedonians (or Macedonian Slavs, like ONLY Wikipedia, Greece and Cyprus calls us) is the only nation of many living in the area concentrated inside the borders of the geographical region of Macedonia. This is a pure fact, something that you can even find on the CIA web page. Can you give any fact to deny my fact? If you can not, why you erased it from Wikipedia? Fact 2. Republic of Macedonia has diplomatic relations with about 150 countries in the world. Wikipedia says that "at least 20" countries recognize Macedonia under the name Macedonia. Guess what? That number is more than 100. And this is an officially confirmed by our ministery for foreighn affairs. Fact 3. Wikipedia says that my country Contraversialy calls itself Republic of Macedonia. This is a pure example of taking a side in the problem. Why you don't say that Greece contraversialy deny us the use of the name Macedonia? If you intended to be neutral, just write that we have the naming problem with Greece, but do not call my name "contraversial"!!! Fact 4. While explaining about the antient Macedonia, its kings etc. you highly support the claim for their Greek origin. I can give you 1000s of facts that that is not truth and I beleive that some Greek guy can give you 1000s facts that those claims are truth. That was 2400 years ago and there is no chanse for us to know the real situation. We can only guess. But, when you give the Greek suported version, why you ignore the version suported by the newaged Macedonians? In this moment I can give you 10 names of internationally respected scientist supporting our theory. If you are neutral, why you ignore it? Fact 5. Wikipedia says that the Turkish Empire were calling us Bulgarians. Strange, because the Turks were recognizing the uniqueness of our nation since the moment they occupied the teritory of Macedonia. Actually, the Turkish history archives are the biggest prove of our existance, history and culture. Did anyone of you ever read anything from those archives? Even on the birth certificate of Khemal Ataturk says that he is born in Bitola, Macedonia. And his autobiography is full of memories of his childhood spend with the Macedonians. Fact 6. Wikipedia ignores the egsodus of the Macedonian people from Greece and says they were running because they were supporters of the comunists. 1/3 of the Macedonians have origin from this part of Macedonia. They were runned away from there by force and you can find many historical proves for that. Again, big part of my family has origin from there. As a matter of fact, my grand-grand father was married to a Greek woman, my grand-grand mother. But, no matter of that, his house was burned and he was forced to run away for his life and the life of his family. How dare you deny this? Do you know that even today my grand father is not allowed to visit Greece, because he was a kid when his family runned away from there? Fact 7. There are about 500 000 Macedonians that live outside Macedonia, mostly in Canada, Australia, USA, Sweden etc. At least 1/3 moved there before 1930s. If we were a product of Tito, how can you explain that even they feel of Macedonian nationality? I have a family in USA which moved there in 1927th. Their ancestors (my cousins) do not even know how to talk Macedonian well. But, they still feel Macedonian. One of them is even one of the financiers of the party of the Macedonians in Bulgaria, trying to help their strugle to keep their national identity. I repeat, first time he visited Macedonia was in 1995th, far after Tito. And his family moved in USA in 1927th, far before Tito. Fact 8. Wikipedia claims that the book of Macedonian songs by Dimitar Miladinov is actually Bulgarian. Have you maybe seen a original copy of the book, printed in Croatia? IT says clearly "Macedonian". Not to mention that the same author wrote one of the most important books in the Macedonian history "For the Macedonian issues", again printed in Croatia, where it clearly talks about the Macedonian nation and non-Bulgarian origin.

All this was simply erased from the database. I didn't erase anything when editing these pages, I support the other side and I do not want to hide their facts. But why Wikipedia wants to hide our facts, which show that we are not a product of Tito's ambitions for the Aegean Sea. In Tito's time, the Yugoslav army was far superior in the region. If he wanted the Aegean Sea, he would get it very easily.

Many things in Wikipedia are very offensive for the nowdays Macedonians. Wikipedia simply ignores us, gives us a new name and supports the theories of denial of our existance, culture and history.

I will try to give you an example that includes with Mexico. I beleive that you know that the Maya civilisation was invaded by the Spanish kingdom. Spanish were ruling Mexico for centuries and millions of Spanish people moved at Mexican teritory. Later, after the liberation war, Mexicans formed its own country. Fact 1. Mayas were living in Mexico (same as Antique Macedonians). Fact 2. Spanish invaded them and great number of Spanish people moved to Mexico (The Slavs moved on the theritory of Macedonia and there was no reported fights or movements of people away from the teritory where the Slavs settled). Fact 3. Nowdays, everyone of the Mexican is aware that they are partly Spanish, but they still have Mayan origin (Wikipedia says that the people living in Republic of Macedonia are Slavs. When there was no reported resetling of the Antique Macedonians, how is possible they not to mix with the Slavs? It is a fact that the nowdays Macedonians are not same as the Antique Macedonians, but they certanly have a significant part of their genes. Same as I beleive that Greece has a part of their Genes, but they are definitly not their direct ancestors). Fact 4. Mexican speak Spanish. Reason: The Spanish culture was superior in that time. (The Antique Macedonians accepted the Helenic culture, including a variation of the Greek language. Reason: the Helenic culture was superior in that time. Everyone who knows at least little history will know that Hellenic and Greek are not synonims. Greek is nation, Hellenic is religion/culture. USA and England both speak English, both are mostly cristians, but they are SEPARATE nations. Aren't they? Same happens to Germany and Austria, or Serbia and Croatia, or Canada and France, or Brazil and Portugal, or the rest of Latin America and Spain)

And here is a comment about the claims of the Bulgarians, that the Macedonians are actually Bulgarians. If that is truth, I am going to kill myself. Bulgarians through the history made the worst for my nation. During the strugle of the Macedonian people for independence from the Turkish empire, at the end of the 19th and begginbing of the 20th century, the Bulgarians were the ones who killed the most of our revolutionaries, including 4 members of my close family which were members of the Macedonian revolutionary organization (VMRO). Whis is not something that I was told by Tito. My grandfather (the same grandfather from above) was in fact a member of the same organization. He personaly knew many of the revolutioners that Bulgarians claim are theirs, including 2 of the leaders: Goce Delcev and Gorce Petrov. They were Macedonians and they all gave their lives for free and independent Macedonia and they had nothing to do with Bulgaria. There was a part of them who were Bulgarians inserted in the organizations, who were actually the killers of the real Macedonian revolutioners, because it was in Bulgarian interest to weaken the organization, so they could take the lead in the organization and later put Macedonia in the hands of the Bulgarians. Thanks god, they did not succeed. Wikipedia claims that VMRO was pro-Bulgarian and the revolutioners were Bulgarian fighters. You suposed to see the face of my 94 year old grandfather when I told him your claims. Neurtal Wikipedia? I do not think so.

At the end I have to ask for Wikipedia NOT TO TAKE A SIDE IN THIS. I am not asking to remove the Greek and Bulgarian side of the story. But, why you ignore our claims, which are suported by many non-Greek and non-Bulgarian scientists and very largely through the web. There are just about 2-2.5 million Macedonians around the world. We do not have enought influence and strenght as Greece has, which is much more powerful and richer country than Macedonia. The Macedonian-Greek question is too hard and too complicated to solve. History can be interpreted in 1000 ways, especially on a teritory like the Balcany, where there are so many nations on so little space. Fortunately, DNA testings are getting more and more reliable and soon it will be possible to be used to acuratelly show the origin of our nations. I hope that then the denyal of me, my history, culture and existance will finaly stop. It is very disapointing that Wikipedia takes a part in all that.

With all the respect, Igor Šterbinski Skopje, Macedonia is@on.net.mk

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ALL the Macedonian history (the one that the Macedonians, the one that Wikipedia calls Macedonian Slavs) before the 6th century is given in Wikipedia as Greek history. I am talking mostly about the Antient Macedonia. I do not claim that Macedonians (Macedonian Slavs in Wikipedia) have the exclusive right to this history. But, Greece can not have that right eighter. It is a history that this region shares and both, we (Macedonians) and Greeks have a part of our origin from those people. In the same time ALL the Macedonian history after the 6th century is given in Wikipedia as Bulgarian history. I am talking about the Wikipedia claims that in the 9th century the Macedonian Slavs got Bulgarized or assimilated by Greece, that in the 10th century Macedonia become a center of Bulgaria (which is not truth, because there are 1000s of hard proves and writtings found in Ohrid denying the Bulgarian claims), the tzar Samoil kingdom (which was everything than Bulgarian, because he had several fights with them and won in all and you can find again 1000s of proves in his fortress in Ohrod), then the Macedonian Ohrid Archbishopry which was clearly Macedonian and everything else than Bulgarian, with dressings and crowns with a completely different stile than the Bulgarian ones. Later Wikipedia claims that after 1018th Byzantine Empire makes Macedonia a Bulgarian province, but it doesn't say the reason for it (the Bulgarians were fighting at his side, so this was his reward towards them, something that will happen in the WW2, when the biggest part of Macedonia will be given to Bulgaria by the Germans. 3 of 4 sons of Samoil were actually latter killed by pro-Bulgarians Another reason is the wish of Vasili II to make a revenge towars Samoil and his people, with denying them, something that Wikipedia does NOW). Then, Wikipedia claims that the Ottoman Empire was seeing us as Bulgarians, which is completely not truth. You have incredible written archives in Turkish museums for this, so you can make a search by your own. All the Macedonian uprisings were characterised as Macedonians. Even the after-capture execution of the leaders was taking place in Skopje, the biggest town in the teritory of Macedonia and not in Sofija, which was the Bulgarian biggest town. Wikipedia says that the following Macedonian history is Bulgarian: IMRO, Ilinden Uprising in Krusevo (where the only newspapers that write about it as Bulgarian uprising are the ones who didn't have their Journalists in the region and were using the Bulgarian sources, which in that time was already liberated, who wanted to show the uprising as their own. Why you don't read some Russian sources which have their journalists in Krusevo and Bitola at the time? Some of the grand sons and grand daughters of the revolutioners are still alive, so you might ask them what their grand-fathers were fighting for. The Krusevo Manifesto says that their goal is FREE and INDEPENDENT Macedonia. Why would their form their own Republic, if they wanted to be part of Bulgaria? All Wikipedia claims simply have no sence), Goce Delchev and the other revolutioners (NOTE: Goce Delchevs nephews which are still alive all spent half of their life proving Goce Delchev's belongding to the Macedonian nation. NOTE 2: Why would he fight for Macedonia's independence if he was Bulgarian? If he was Bulgarian, wouldn't he fight for unification of Macedonia and Bulgaria? Why was he betrayed by a Bulgarian, which resultet in his death in Banica 1903rd? You are corupting our biggest revolutioner, something that we keep as a saint). Wikipedia says that the "St Cyril and Methodius" high school in Solun, where Delchev studied was Bulgarian. How come, when no Bulgarians were living in Solun?... A prove for the Bulgarian, Serb and Greek ambitions to assimilate the Macedonians and take their teritory is the deals and fights they had in the both Balcan wars. They were all exterminating the Macedonians, burning their houses and grabbing their lands, but Wikipedia completely ignores all that. I (and many more) have a living family members who were witnesses of that time. Then, the WW2, when 2/3 of Macedonia was given to Bulgaria by the Germans. Why the hell 100000 Macedonians were fighting against the Bugarians? 25000 died in that war, again many members of my family. And Wikipedia says that we have Bulgarian origin. Why they didn't fight at the Bulgarian side if that was the case? Wikipedia later claims that our country (Republic of Macedonia) was given to us by Tito. What a lie!!! As I said 100000 Macedonians were fighting for freedom. If Tito made us be under the Serbs again, that wouldn't be freedom and 100000 heavily armed Macedonians would continue fighting for it. Even my 94 year old grand-father, who took a part in the WW2 fighting for the partizans, and who was looking at Tito as a saint agrees with this, that he wouldn't rest till he saw Macedonia free. Wikipedia even denies the exodus of 250 000 Macedonians from Greece, saying they were running away by their own. Who the hell will leave his house and land if he was not forced to? My other grand father's house was burned and he was shoot at in order to make him leave his hometown.

On some places Wikipedia says that this 'Bulgarian part' of the history might be Macedonian, but that is very well hidden so it even can hardly be noticed.

On the other hand, Wikipedia says that 'In 2000 several teenagers threw smoke bombs at the conference of pro-Bulgarian organisation 'Radko' in Skopje causing panic and confusion among the delegates'. Yes, that is completely truth. But in 1000s of years, you find one incident that we caused against the Bulgarians and you wrote it. What about centuries of incidents, murders, wars, assimilation made by the Bulgarians towards the Macedonians? What about the fact that Bulgaria and Greece do not allow the Macedonian parties in those countries to register and take a part in the ellections? This is something that was taken even to the European court. HOW CAN WIKIPEDIA IGNORE THIS??? BTW, Radko had just about 50 delegates and members. Most of them born in Bulgaria and moved latter in their life in Macedonia.

In this case, Wikipedia is only a tool in the Bulgarian and Greek propaganda of denying and stealing the Macedonian history, culture and existance. Just search the internet and you will see that this kind of 'history' can ONLY be found on pro-Bulgarian and pro-Greek web sites. I am a living prove of the existance of the Macedonian nation. And that is not because I was told so by Tito. Macedonians were Macedonians far far before Tito. That is a fact that NOONE can change. How dare you deny everything what I am? How dare you to deny 1000s of killed people, who gave their lives for FREE and INDEPENDENT Macedonia?

Senceirly, Igor Šterbinski Skopje, Macedonia

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JUST SEARCH THE WEB, YOU CAN SEE HOW WRONG WIKIPEDIA IS!!! ONLY THE PRO-BULGARIAN AND PRO-GREEK SITES HAVE THE SAME CLAIMS AS WIKIPEDIA. MOST OF THEM ARE ONLY CLAIMS THAT ARE CONFIRMED BY FALSIFICATED LETTERS. The TURKISH WERE SUPERIOR AT THAT TIME AND ARE A NEUTRAL SIDE. AND FAR BIGGER PART OF THEM IDENTIFY THE MACEDONIANS AS SEPARATE NATION, MACEDONIANS. WIKIPEDIA IS NEUTRAL??? I DO NOT THINK SO!!!

Wikipedia - the encyclopedia that anybody can edit. That's the point. If you calm down and decide what is wrong with the article, then YOU can add any corrections or additions you think it needs to put the article into a better state than it is now. I'm not taking sides, I know nothing about this issue - but instead of jumping up and down shouting about it, you can fix it. This is how it works - someone writes a draft of an article, then it gets revised, and revised, and revised... and though that process can probably never be said to be complete, in principle the article converges to a view of the truth that most people are willing to accept. In fact if you don't do this, and just give up and decide that WP is biased, who WILL fix it? Graham 12:39, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, actually reading the initial rant (which is quite a task given the length) reveals that the guy complains he's being reverted whenever he tries to fix it. I know nothing about the issue, but there sure are many organized POV pushers on WP. In most cases, the only way to fight them is to build your own gang. Or so it seems. Rl 13:04, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

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Yes, already tried to fix them in a very neutral way. I never erased anything, just added. It was always simply undo-ed. To be honest, I am not planning to make my gang here in Wikipedia. I respect all of you administrators, but I am not planning to waste a part of your life on this issues. If you want to help, you can, but it should be your own decision. I was here to raise my voice. This is not the first time this happens with some web-page, radio, tv station etc. Sooner or latter, if this doesn't change, Wikipedia will officially be proclaimed like pro-Bulgarian or pro-Greek. It already was, on the Serbian Wikipedia in the discussion parts, and several other non-Wikipedia discussion forums (suprisinly, but most of them were non-Macedonians).

And you are completely right. I was mad, I still am. I would just like to ask you if you can put yourself in my possition and possition of the other Macedonians. I just visited the Bulgarian Wikipedia. I have to be honest that I didn't understand well, but I could notice many places where the word Macedonian is simply changed with Bulgarian.

Yes, there are some actual researches about the HLA genes of the Macedonians and Greeks. Just, I didn't gave you any link, because that research include Spanish, Portugeese... and between them Macedonian scientists. It is officially publicated and accepted research, but it is the first one in the field. This technique is possible only in the last couple of years. It is expected many researches like this still to come, and the techniques are getting more and more advanced. So, to keep the Wikipedia's neutrality, I wanted to wait till several researches like this appear. That is why I didn't talk about that research and I talked about the researches that are going to happen in future, which will be much more advanced, using newer techniques. Anyway, for those who are interested, here is a link of the research: www.makedonika.org/processpaid.aspcontentid=ti.2001.pdf Another links can be found with google: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=HLA+genes+macedonia&btnG=Search

BTW, I already noticed some possitive changes in Wikipedia. When I say possitive, I am talking for Wikipedia's neutrality, not for my point of view. They are few, but incuraging. Anyway, there are many more that should be worked on.

About the number of countries that recognized Macedonia under its constitutional name, I only got an oral information few days ago from our Ministery for External affairs (www.mnr.gov.mk). I asked for written information, but it will take longer. As soon as I get it, I will post it here.

If "Macedonia" cannot be agreed upon, why not "Vardaria"?

Dear Igor, - I agree that Wikipedia is not neutral, although it makes a great pretense to be. I have had my own fight on the question of my own country, which is in a worse status than yours, and have given it the fight on Wikipedia. However, coming to the question of Macedonia, I would like to make some suggestions:

1. I agree that the Greeks and Bulgarians are being unreasonable. However, Greece does have some right to object, given that the ancient Macedonia is much larger than modern Macedonia, and that Greece owns a large part of that ancient Macedonia. Greece can therefore fear Macedonian irredentism or territorial claims, and insist on pre-empting them. We know from history, that certain ancient lands have been colonized by new peoples, eg. as Britain by the English, and Gaul by the Franks to make England and France. Unfortunately, in the case of Macedonia (and also Thrace), these lands are divided by the present occupants.

2. I remember seeing old maps showing Yugoslavia where the present Republic of Macedonia was styled "Vardarska" or something like that. What is wrong with using that name? Bosnia is also named after a river, isn't it? I think that if Macedonia agrees to use Vardaria as its official name, and Macedonia as its alternative name, the dispute would be ended.

Just a suggestion.

Regards,

Elmer

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Editing my signature

How do I personalize my signature? I can't find it in Preferences. Revolución 02:41, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

It's the "nickname" field. Relevant help is at m:Help:Preferences#Your_nickname. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:42, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

Pornography Link

Dear Community,

I have just discovered Wikipedia, and was looking for instructions on how to use. However, when I click on the word "wiki" in any of several introductory pages, I am linked to a porn page instead of an explanatory page. Is this a vandalism, or should I remain disenchanted and simply go away? I haven't been able to learn enough on how to "revert" such a page--but I should know first of all if this is acceptable to you all.

Thanks for your help.

Sincerely,

dadexter 2 August 2005

Could you give some details? Which pages? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:20, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

If you are specific enough, then a notice either here or at the reporting vandalism page will do. To revert, you look at the history page for the article and select that last good version, then save it. You will get a notice that you are saving an out of date page, but that's ok. It helps if you put the word revert in the edit comment. Spalding 10:21, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

I can't find any sign of this on any "introductory pages". I suspect that it's either a problem at the user's end, or a troll. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 12:04, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

I tried these two links again today, and they appear normal (no porn link this time): Village Pump>Wikipedia (P.1,L.1)>wiki fashion (P.2,L.3); and Community Portal>wiki community (P.1,L.1). Thank you for your responses. If the trouble is on my end, how should I deal with it if it happens again? Now I can try to learn how this all works. --dadexter 3 August 2005

Hi dadexter and welcome to Wikipedia. If a page has obviously been vandalized, locate the "history" tab at the top. Click the link and an archive of all revisions to the page will be displayed. The vandal's edit is probably stored at the top most link. Go to the link below (second top most link), and check the page. If it appears unvandalized then click edit at the top. You will be warned in red that you are editing an outdated version. You do not need to modify any text in the main body. Just insert "RV vandalism" into the edit summary and save the page. You've killed an instance of vandalism -- thanks.

Tip:Your name and timestamp will be displayed if you write four tildas ~~~~

lots of issues | leave me a message 12:26, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Chronicles of Narnia CS Lewis

I find it interesting that one part of article refers to the Chronicles as children's fantasy, while another gets into Christian symbolism. From the point of view of a child reading these books, how is it interpreted. Does a child need to get into the Christianity, or can the story be read for the fantasy alone. I am an adult reading the books for the first time, finding them a wonderful fantasy. And yet, if I were reading the Screwtape letters, for example, or Mere Christianity, I would be concerned with understanding the theology. What was CS Lewis's purpose? Christianity in the young child, or pleasurable reading? And, why would it matter to Lewis how it was interpreted?

Maps

Map of pangasinan

http://www.pangasinan.gov.ph/theprovince/towncity.htm

http://www.pangasinan.gov.ph/theprovince/map.htm

http://www.pangasinan.org/surfmap.htm

I hope wikipedia could make a detailed political map of pangasinan with its towns and cities.

Newbie question: original research and relatives

Hi, i asked a question on Talk:Joseph Ransohoff about the 'No Original Research' policy that I'd like some comments on. Kit 23:49:01, 2005-08-01 (UTC)

Thanks, Sn0wflake for your help. Kit 01:05:40, 2005-08-02 (UTC)

User:Theodore W. and Frisian

On July 26, I found the article Frisian and noticed that it seemed to be a bizarre disambiguation page. I checked the history, found that it had once been a redirect to Friesian, and reverted to it because that seemed right.

On July 27, Theodore, the creator of the bizarre disambig, reverted to his version and left this message on my talk page. He also put a message on Talk:Frisian. Of course, I never intended to insult anybody by calling them a cow.

I then left a message on User talk:Theodore W.. Three days later, he replied in an unpleasant fashion.

Now, since I haven't found any policy relating to how disambiguation pages with spelling variants, like this, should be treated, I've left it alone except to put {{disambig}} on his version of Frisian, which has now been removed. I'd appreciate if someone could help figure this out.

Nickptar 18:27, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

The discussion on spelling (if it can be made POV) belongs in the article Frisia. Frisian should redirect to Friesian, which properly notes the variant. Unfortunately most of the current page is a personal essay about which spelling is correct, which doesn't belong anywhere. —Wahoofive (talk) 22:28, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Is there some policy saying as much that I can quote to justify correction? ~~ N (t/c) 23:08, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Improving search on Wikipedia, especially with Firefox?

Does anyone have any suggestions on using Google site searches with Firefox? I'm about ready to download the Google toolbar for Firefox, but I would prefer to find a way to use the built-in Firefox toolbar. One would think it would work as well as a Google site search when set to search in Wikipedia, but it is not even close (in Firefox 1.0.3 - I just noticed that Firefox updates are available, so of course I'll try that first in the (probably futile) hope they have improved it). Has anyone noticed that Wikipedia searches don't end up with Google searches as a last resort like they used to? Good search really is critical when searching for any possible mention of a subject. Spalding 20:13, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

If you look at [6] at the bottom where it says "Add mote search-engines" you can add search-engines that search a bunch of sites, including wikipedia. Combined with the ConQuery extension, this is killer for finding anything online (see a name you don't recognise? select it, right click, Query To -> Wikipedia, and bobs your uncle). Was it something like this you meant? gkhan 10:53, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! That is pretty nice, but I'm not sure how it's materially different from the standard Firefox toolbar, other than being slightly more user-friendly. I guess my first preference would be for Wikipedia search to work as well as it used to when it reverted to Google, so maybe I do just need to download the Google toolbar, except that I don't want to devote more screen space to yet another toolbar. Spalding 22:13, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Zealous search for childhood internet acquaintance: Pokemorphs

Upon staying at my eight-year-old cousin's house this weekend, I was reintroduced to Pokemon. I was a total fanatic when I was his age, but now that I am fifteen I realize that it isn't the center of life. In no way am I a pokemon fan at all. But, it was a big part of my childhood, and I remember I had a good friend on the internet by the name of Melissa. She was the creator of the now defunct online stories, the Pokemorphs.

After seven years I am consumed with a zealous desire to find her. Now, it doesn't make sense, but I just HAVE to find out if she is still on the internet and how to contact her. Upon making a google search I found this site as having deleted the Pokemorphs article in 2004. By all means, I agree with the deletion, but is there anyway I can view the article as it once was? Does anyone now anything about Melissa.

Sorry to waste space on this forum, but I didn't know where to go. Can anybody help me out?

Er. I'm going to assume this is for real, because I don't see the harm in it. I've looked at the deleted content. Ther's not much to it, it's just a short fan fiction, but what may interest you is that at the end it cites http://www.pokemorph.com and http://kokobean220.tripod.com/. --Dmcdevit·t 05:03, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

WP:FLC

Hi, could someone have a look at the Featured List Candidate Page for me please. I tried adding a page but seem to have got into a mess and can't work out whaat i've done wrong. Thanks -- Ian ≡ talk 15:31, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

• Please ignore - I worked it out -- Ian ≡ talk 15:41, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Old VP content

I'm trying to find a Village Pump discussion from around November 2003. The history only goes back to 2004. Is the earlier stuff accessible? Thanks, Tualha (Talk) 13:48, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Update: I've found Wikipedia:Village pump archive 2004-09-26. However, some edits to VP I made around November 2003 are not to be found in the history. Also, oddly enough, postings from July 2005 are in the recent versions. Bug? Tualha (Talk) 14:03, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Some archives reference content by template-like transclusion (in the page source, this looks like {{somepagenamehere}}). In these cases, updates to the transcluded page will appear in the archive. Users also sometimes add new entries to archives, not realizing they're editing an archive. -- Rick Block (talk) 17:54, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

Admiral Roo needs some help

I am trying to put up an info box for Conneaut, Ohio, and I am experimenting with it here (in my personal sandbox). I don't know how to do this. Could someone fill in the blanks for me so I can post it in the article? You have my permission to edit in my personal sandbox (where the infobox is located at). Thanks. --Admiral Roo 13:02, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

Hornbill ivory—Chinese?

Hornbill ivory could use some attention from someone who speaks Chinese, at least to check my Pinyin and linguistic comments. It might also be of interest to speakers of Japanese and languages of Malaysia and Indonesia, or those who know about the culture of those places. Thanks, JerryFriedman 16:34, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Transferring recorded radio plays from audio cassettes to CDs

Can anyone tell me how this can be done without expensive professional equipment? Regards jmphep@yahoo.co.uk

Connect the output of a tape player to the "Line In" input of your sound card. DO NOT use the microphone input; it can damage the player, and possibly also your sound card. You can now use any sound-recording and CD-burning program. You may need to use a sound editor to clean up any noise.

A proper non-computer CD recorder will probably achieve higher quality; I doubt it costs more than $100.

Welcome to Wikipedia! Future questions not related to Wikipedia should be directed to Wikipedia:Reference desk.

Nickptar 21:53, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

translation

I wonder if someone can help me with the translation of "prosecutor's fallacy" in as many European languages as possible ? Chris de Veth

You should prabably see if you can find some helpful native speakers to ask at the index at Wikipedia:Babel. --Dmcdevit·t 05:08, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

Another newbie question - Using 'foreign' images

I appear to be unable to use a picture from the english version in a german article. The current case would be Green Bank Telescope where I simply copied the image-link into the german version. Didn't work as expected: Why? What do I do?

Regards, Wolfram (27 July 2005)

1. In general, please ask questions like this at Wikipedia:Village pump (assistance).
2. But, since you asked here: one language's Wikipedia cannot access images from another. Assuming that the intellectual property rights for the image are also OK for the German Wikipedia, you can copy the image to your hard drive and then upload it to the German Wikipedia. Alternately, if the intellectual property rights for the image are OK for the Commons, you can upload it there; then it can be accessed from all language's Wikipedias. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:38, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

(copied from Embassy) Upload to "Commons" ... all right, I'll try and find out ;-) Thanks & regards, Wolfram

Clark Pernsoil Potter

What is this? It redirects to a page on Meta which is blank. John Barleycorn 20:13, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

• It appears that it was once a possibly non-notable biography, so someone moved it to meta 3 years ago. This was before my time, is this how we handled userpages long ago? I'll drop a note to User:Maveric149; he's the one who did the move. Joyous (talk) 22:30, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

We used to dump non-notable rubbish to Meta. Now deleted since interwiki redirects have been disabled. --mav 01:33, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Table formatting codes

Where can I get a listing of all the functions for creating tables and their function, i.e. cellspacing, cellpadding, etc. I would be looking for functions for creating lists and their coding structure. Thank you HJKeats 18:10, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

If you're trying to create tables on Wikipedia, see Meta:Help:Table. If you're trying to do it in HTML, I recommend htmlhelp.com. Bovlb 05:45:23, 2005-07-26 (UTC)

Plame

There is currently an article about the Plame affair, but you will also find extensive sections in various other articles: Valerie Plame, Karl Rove, Robert Novak, etc. While those articles deserve to have some mention of their principals involvement, it seems they are actually becoming far to extensive and need to be pared down. What is the proper avenue to have this "project" of trying to unify the Plame coverage into the Plame Affair article?--Gangster Octopus 17:28, 25 July 2005 (UTC) Links fixed. Bovlb 17:46:59, 2005-07-25 (UTC)

Be Bold and Summary style. --mav 01:35, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Editing

I have edited the text of a photograph of Ascophyllum nodosum (a seaweed) which had been entered under: "Fucus vesiculosus.JPG" However I cannot edit the title of the Image as given at the head of the page. How should I do it please? --81.144.158.195 11:12, 25 July 2005 (UTC)Osborne Morton osborne.morton@magni.org.uk

I don't believe you would want to do that; the image page's header is simply the filename. There's no provision for changing the way the title is displayed. In any case, 90% of the readers of the article won't ever see the filename; they'll just see the thumbnail image that you place in the article, and of course you can caption that however you like. Tempshill 17:04, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Trying to learn about my heritage..

My grandmother left Akwesasne when she was a young girl after the death of her mother. She is full blood as were all of her ancesters..However, she is old now and her memory is failing. I want to know all there is to know about my maternal ancestry. Please, if someone could point me in the right direction so that I may explore my indian heritage. This is important to me.. Thank you, Harmony

Cyc References

References in an article are great. But I'm not sure about thisrecent addition of lots of references - I've no idea what value a bulk addition of references adds. Can anyone suggest what should be done with them? Josh Parris ✉ 04:18, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

That's nothing. Can you top this? Rl 11:56, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Unicode / Malayalam language help required

I've just spotted the following in a comment at the top of the Kalaripayattu page:

There is a slight problem with the malayalam spelling. I was unable to get the double pa, It would be great if some one could fix that.

I have got no idea what a double pa is or how to get it, (or even if it has been fixed already), so I would appreciate it if someone who does can fix it. Thanks, Thryduulf 18:40, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

"The Flowers Of Romance"

Hi. I'm administrator over at the Interlingua wikipedia, and I was hoping for help...

Over at ia:The Flowers Of Romance, a bot has created a page. However, in the english page about The Flowers Of Romance, it's a disambiguation page, and, well, I don't know anything about punk music.

My questions, then, for any punk-rock wikipedians here:

1. Is this information accurate?
2. Is this band notable, or is this VfD material?

Thank you for your time. Almafeta 18:28, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

The Interlingua page looks like a mixture of the English articles on Sealand and The Flowers of Romance (band 2). The exact same article appears to have been created on many of the smaller wikis (e.g ca, chr, ang and bd).

I presume they're notable enough for an article as there has apparently been work done on the English, French and particularly Danish wikipedias. There are some links in the interlanguage links of the IA page that go to pages with no text, which I presume means that the administrators of those wikis decided to delete the articles.

Given all this, I'd be inclined to treat it as spam. Thryduulf 18:53, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

There are two bands with this name. One was an early punk band formed in 1976 (see here), the other a 1999 band claiming to be the comeback of the former (see here). The article about the former had been re-written so that both bands appeared to be one and the same. This has since been disputed and corrected (see discussion), but only in the English version. It would appear that other languages still contain the disputed information. (It would also appear that the current band is using the various Wikipedias for self-promotion). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:17, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

NPOV is gone in this article!

Has really NO moderator yet seen the comment on GKIF put there three days ago by Peter Lee??? This comment is WAY out of the neutral point of view, it's not based on FACTS but is merely his personal opinion. I can take it away (again), but I was in several edit wars already with this fellow and I don't want to get me into another one. In my view, it's now the task of a moderator to do something about it. I have also commented on the text on the NPOV talk page, but still without any results. (text deleted!) Maybe here at the village pump it might get some more attention? -- MarioR 13:08, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Who are these "moderators" you speak of? r3m0t ^talk 20:28, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

Oops, I used the Dutch word "moderator". I meant administrator... I wasn't talking about any particular administrator but in general. Anyway, the problem is (kind of) solved, with a little help of Splash... Thanks Splash! -- MarioR 11:40, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Revert battle still going on in truth

A revert battle is still going on in truth. The obscurantists insist on having things their own way, ignoring the npov policy that all points of view should be given equal billing. Administrative assistance is needed. -- DotSix 67.182.157.6 19:59, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Possible solution to dispute over unbiased wording of lead section found: Just leave the lead section blank, let the article speak for itself? (Unless there is something in Wikipedia policy that requires saying something profound in the lead section of each article? Is there such a requirement, or can the lead section be left with nothing in it but the index?) -- DotSix 67.182.157.6 14:18, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Yo, for anyone else looking at the village pump, I just scanned the mess on the Talk:Truth page. It looks like the majority consensus of the WP editors tracking that article is that user 67.182.157.6 is part of the problem, not the solution. --Coolcaesar 04:33, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

So your bias is towards The tyrany of the majority? Doesn't that violate the Wikipedia policy of principled negotiation, "a cooperative process whereby participants try to find a solution which meets the legitimate interests of both parties, which in the context of Wikipedia usually involves appropriate mention of all points of view in an article thus improving the quality of the article." -- 172.192.66.3 17:45, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

See the RfC, Wikipedia:Requests for comment/DotSix Banno 20:30, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

You mean Bananas and RoadBites nasty little ad hominem personal attack/vendetta on somebody they are trying to scare off because they don't like it when he points out their logical fallacies? --172.193.110.200 14:53, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

"You mean Bananas and RoadBites nasty little ad hominem personal attack/vendetta on somebody they are trying to scare off because they don't like it when he points out their logical fallacies'?"

Wait, wait, I know there is something wrong with this, I just can't figure it out :D gkhan 15:07, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

Can I Have The Wiki Page Retrieval Code?

At the bottom of every Wiki page that I download and read offline, I find the line 'Retrieved from:' and the page url. I have tried to find the code for this, which I think must be a javascript, but cannot find the source, except a clue that it is embedded in some kind of a 'footer'. Can anyone help me to get this code, which I want to use for my own html pages?

Regards — Elmer

Wikpedia's default skin ("Monobook") uses CSS to show and hide a <div> with the class "pagefooter". See the print CSS file. -- Cyrius|✎ 16:05, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Cyrius. I take this CSS doc home and see what I can do with it. - Elmer

"The King"

Rather tiresome revert wars and charges of vandalism are flying around Elvis Presley. They seem to be about two issues: (i) claims that The Pelvis had homosexual liaisons, and (ii) claims that he prompted a surge in US sales of transistor radios. I made a small effort to help (or, if you prefer, additionally muddied the waters), but the "real world" is increasingly making demands on my time, so I can't pursue this. Perhaps cool heads could profitably take a look. -- Hoary 10:45, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

Alban vs. Saint Alban

Hi! Someone has screwed up the history of the article about Saint Alban by moving the text via copy&paste from Alban to Saint Alban would an admin please fix the problem by moving and joining the histories? Thanks in advance. --chris 論 10:35, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Repaired. -- Cyrius|✎ 11:01, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks a lot --chris 論 11:15, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Moving a section of an article

I read an article in which I think one section of the article belongs in anothe article. Should I simply cut and paste the section from one article to the other and enter my change and the reasons for it in the history, or is there some other preferred method? --David R Wright 06:03, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

That's the only way to do it. Say where you got it and where it went in the edit summaries. -- Cyrius|✎ 08:45, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Userpage ownership

Dispute at User:Gavin the Chosen: Can a proven sockpuppet of a user under an RfC and RfAr delete {{sockpuppetProven}} from their user page? ~~ N (t/c) 06:27, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Now Gavin is claiming that as he will only edit under that account and not his previous one, it's not a puppet. I think *some* indication that he's the same person as a user currently under arbitration is important. ~~ N (t/c) 06:41, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

The idea that he's not a sockpuppet if he "abandons" the old identity seems to be splitting hairs quite a bit... There should be a definite link made between the two for easy comparisons to his block log and so forth... I would think that his arguing to have the tag removed should be part of the RfAr process and not just something someone decides to do right now. DreamGuy 06:47, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

I should point out that the original question s still valid, as User:Devilbat and User:Pukachu have been removing "believed to be sockpuppet" tags from their user pages as well. It seem logic to me that those cannot be removed, or else what's the point of them? DreamGuy 06:49, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

They are probably doing that becasue they arent sock puppets. I woder why this doesnt seem to occur to people.?Gavin the Chosen 06:51, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Oh, I get it, they aren't sockpuppets because they say they aren't...? You've been through three sockpuppets yourself lately and with all of them you claimed to not be a sockpuppet until you were caught each time. Think about what you are arguing for a minute here... DreamGuy 06:54, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

I have no sock puppets, and your attempts to parkate in Wtch hunts is not particularly dignified.Gavin the Chosen 06:57, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

No, no, no, no... Apparently you are trying to defend yourself by claiming you no longer have sockpuppets because you abandoned all other names and went to this new one. But what I said is that you have been (past tense) through three recently... this one having been one until you officially "switched" sometime today. That is completely true, and it is rather ridiculous for you to try to mislead people about that fact at this point. It's not a "Witch hunt" to note this information. You can't just change your name and pretend to be someone else. You have a history here as User:Gabrielsimon and two other sockpuppets. If you think the new name is symbolic of a new start, make your new start instead of making deceptive comments. DreamGuy 07:10, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

but calling other users sock puppets when they are just newbies IS a witch hunt and this was my intent the entire time, to find a new person to bew, so i could edit in a relaxed atmo.Gavin the Chosen 07:13, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

sighs But you weren't a newbie, and the others almost certainly are not either. There's strong evidence in each case, and it was their bad actions that drew the spotlight on you and them. That's the whole point. DreamGuy 07:20, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

I would argue that the spirit of the rule on Wikipedia:Sockpuppets - that sockpuppets may not be used to get around 3RR or blocks - also applies to arbitration cases. As DreamGuy said on your talk page, if you want a fresh start, ACT DIFFERENTLY, ADMIT YOUR MISTAKES, and the arbcom will show mercy. I'll let the "just newbies" thing slide, although that was always obviously not the case. ~~ N (t/c) 07:23, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I have been acting differntly, and what better wayto act differrntly then a facelift and "personality makeover"?Gavin the Chosen 07:26, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Your change in behavior is very good. However, you are not absolved of your actions as Gabrielsimon. Please just admit that. ~~ N (t/c) 07:28, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

my plan was to go and be who i am now for a monthn or two, then to go and say " hello arb com, look, ive been really good for the past (howeverlong) , wouldnt that help me in my defence? dont i deserve a cookie?" but that cant happen now. O well, least i can still behave.Gavin the Chosen 07:31, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

It failed, and I'm sorry about that. It doesn't sound like all that bad a plan, and if you can prove yourself to be good, I think you should get off with reduced consequences. But you're going to have to live with the consequences of your previous actions. Also the graffiti - that looks very, very bad for an established contributor. Your intuition should surely have told you not to do it. ~~ N (t/c) 07:35, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

In fairness to Gavin, he did announce his intention a couple of days ago to go clean with Gavin the Chosen; he just didn't announce it publicly. The other accounts were being used as sockpuppets, but this account is not - it was and remains his sole account. He's on notice that if there's any repetition of the old behavior, he'll be blocked. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 07:40, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Sounds cool. I don't object at all, and hope he holds to it, and nothing like the graffiti happens again. I just want him to understand that he is not now exempt from arbitration. ~~ N (t/c) 07:50, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Because Gavin the Chosen is now the primary account, Gabrielsimon is effectively a sockpuppet (though an inactive one). I've placed the standard template on that account's userpage accordingly.  — Saxifrage | ☎ 08:26, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Please remove it, an abandoned account is not a sock puppet.Gavin the Chosen 08:30, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I've removed the tag. Explanation on Saxifrage's talk page. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 08:32, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Matt

I figuring things out, but I'm still confused. I found out who was editing my articles, but how to I post on his talk page? Eliezerke 04:34, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

forget it

Attention Matt (or anyone else reading this): I figured out how to post on people's talk pages. No need to repond :) Eliezerke 05:10, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Please help a new and confused user!

I edited the article on Yiddish by adding a section on genders. Somebody replaced what I wrote with a more brief version. I then wrote a section on case endings. Again, sombody replaced it with his/her writing. Whoever is writing these articles certainly knows more than me, but I think s/he is missing some important facts, and may use too much jargon for the uninitiated. I would very much like to chat with this person, but I don't know how to reach him/her. When I wrote the said additions to the Yiddish article I did not yet have a user name. Is there any way I can find out the user name of whoever is writing this stuff?

You can see who did each edit by looking at the page history. The best place to talk about the content of a particular page is on the talk page. There is where you can tell the other editors what changes you think are needed and listen to their opinions on how things could be worded. Thank you for contributing to wikipedia. You can sign all your comments on the talk pages (and on this page) by using four tildes. Matt 04:04, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

anti-NPOV edits in Choudhary Rahmat Ali

Hi! In Choudhary Rahmat Ali, I notice that circa 17 June, somebody added a number of pretty dubious edits. I don't know enough about the topic to sort the good ones from the bad. I added a comment on the discussion page, but I'm not sure how to bring this to the attention of a topic matter expert for cleanup. Any suggestions? --William Pietri 19:24, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

2005 NFL season

Is there a page for this? --Peacearoundtheworld 17:37, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Believe it or not, it’s at 2005 NFL season. Susvolans (pigs can fly) 17:44, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Thank you. --Peacearoundtheworld 17:50, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

I need help

I want to request a name, Abdinasir. Is there anyway that can be done? --Peacearoundtheworld 14:43, 8 August 2005 (UTC) Another thing who did the song I'am so lonely? --Peacearoundtheworld 15:17, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks I found out it was Akon. The song is lonely. --Peacearoundtheworld 19:25, 8 August 2005 (UTC) Abdinasir i'am still trying to find out if it can be made into a page or a request. --Peacearoundtheworld 19:25, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by "I want to request a name, Abdinasir." Do you mean that you want to create an article on it? If so, follow this link and type away. If you want to request that someone else writes an article, see Wikipedia:Requested articles. If you want to abandon your current account and create a new account under this user name, just log out and create the new account. Bovlb 01:16:43, 2005-08-09 (UTC)

search for numeric coding of languages, families and nations

Several organizations have issued standards om letter coding for languages , however for DB query purposes numeric codes [possibly in the short integer range] are much better

Is there anywhere a numeric coding standard for langiages and families to reference ?? and if so can you send the link to it or directly the electornic file ??? If not would an attempt from us be acceptable for you ???

About narnia visit the site www.narnia.com and take a look to their child contests story can be added up

~~~~ wkklaus

Help with page editing debate

I'm new and not sure how this should go. The page is Naruto:_Gekitou_Ninja_Taisen_4. The boxart image is first of all, not even the real boxart. Second, it was saved off PlayAsia, as you can see with the partial text on the image. Is this allowed? Also should the "Freeloader" section even be on that page? Also the previous existing page was redirected to a that new one. The original page was here Which page should be kept? --Zeno McDohl 01:23, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Help on deleteted articles please

I remember an article named instruction creep that has been deleted. My question is a general one for a case like this: Where would I see the Votes for deletion on it, and is there any way to see the old article for context? It appears that many links remain to this one, so it was not deleted very cleanly. I think it was in the Wikipedia:project namespace - does that make any difference? Thanks, Spalding 23:04, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

Edit: OK, I think I see a clue. There is one named Meta:instruction creep. I don't go to Meta very often - how do you manage back and forth? For example, Meta and Wikipedia both seem to have a "KISS principle" article, I think. Should I just change the links to instruction creep to point to the one on Meta? I'm SO confused.

Putting "m:" at the beginning of a link is the way to go to Meta; "w:" goes from Meta to en.Wikipedia. There should only be links to meta from project or user space (or any talk space). You could change those links. There should be no links to meta from article space. As for the VfD matter, just prepend "Wikipedia:Votes for deletion" to the article name. If there had been an old article, it would be visible only to admins. [[smoddy]] 23:14, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

That sounded good, so I tried it with no results: Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Instruction creep Spalding 23:31, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

Addendum: to indisputably determine whether an article was deleted, use Special:Log/Delete and Wikipedia:Deletion log. The prepending trick doesn't always work, as VfD nominations haven't always been subpages of VfD (but of course you should try it first, as it's quick.) JRM · Talk 23:18, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

I tried that, but I would have to go all the way back to the actual deletion date, correct? So it may take some time to page through, but I'll try. Spalding 23:31, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

Oh, sorry for that! I was giving general advice. FYI: there never was an article named instruction creep or Wikipedia:instruction creep, I checked. (I didn't fully plow through the old deletion log, admittedly.) The links you mention are mostly botched attempts to go to m:instruction creep. (This happens all the time; people also often forget Wikipedia: in front of links.) JRM · Talk 00:13, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

I think m:instruction creep was never on en:. It was always, as far as I can see, on meta:. In general, you just have to use the "What links here" function, since both the VfD discussions and the old deletion logs link to the page. And the link from KISS principle is probably expecting an article about the general concept of instruction creep instead of the Wikipedia-specific version. --cesarb 00:07, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Good point. Here's an epistle on it! Wikipedia_talk:Categories,_lists,_and_series_boxes/Archive_2#m:Instruction_Creep So how about if I (or anyone else) just create the article as basically a clone of the one on Meta except in a general sense. It's a good point, although this Google search makes it apparent that it is only a Wikipedia term. Spalding 00:25, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

Interesting, I wouldn't have guessed that. It is most likely derived from feature creep, though, which is an older term. Once again Wikipedia's hacker bias shows through. :-) JRM · Talk 00:33, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

number of edits

how do I figure out how many edits I have done? --Revolución 16:20, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Go here and put in your user name. Joyous (talk) 20:36, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

First new entry

Just posted http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarleton, my first attempt at a new entry. Can someone tell me if I've done everything right, as I love this resource but don't want to fall foul of any rules

04:56, 7 August 2005 (UTC) Liam / Doktorb

It's a good start. I boldened the article name, removed the extra article heading, and added a stub notice and a category. I don't think that "It is a one-street affair" has the necessary encyclopedic air, but I'm not sure how best to rephrase it. Note that you can sign discussion comments (like this page) using four tildes (~~~~). Welcome to WIkipedia. Bovlb 05:20:39, 2005-08-07 (UTC)

You made some newbie mistakes, but nothing that would incur anything more than a pointer to style guidelines. -- Cyrius|✎ 06:19, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for this - it has been tinkered with and will continue to be looked at and cared for. Cheers. dok 08:26, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

If you're local to Tarleton, then you might consider taking some photographs. Is there a recognizable central feature, like a town hall, a market square, a village green, or a historical town sign? Bovlb 15:55:35, 2005-08-07 (UTC)

Must break Wikipedia:Deletion reform

I expect this request will get even less attention than most. Nearly everyone has an opinion about deletion policy. Who will dare to represent himself as sufficiently impartial to archive, refactor, or split this page so that we may continue to debate the important points raised therein? — Xiong熊talk* 08:53, 2005 August 6 (UTC)

The first person to suggest it? :-) But you're right, the one thing we need a lot more than new proposals is a decent inventory of the main points in the issue. Maybe this note will serve to encourage people, so it can become a collective effort... JRM · Talk 10:49, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Hope you're not pointing at me, d00d. I'm about as opinionated as they come; and this page in particular brings all my biases to the surface, like an outbreak of hives. The only way I would refactor this page would be with a flamethrower. Poor choice of editor. How about you? — Xiong熊talk* 14:55, 2005 August 7 (UTC)

I'd love to, but... no, that's a lie. That page would crush my spirit and eat my soul if I got involved in it. I wouldn't have any trouble remaining impartial, but the sheer size of the task is daunting. I'd much rather have people think about the big picture themselves, rather than posting yet another brain dump... but of course this isn't going to happen, and the whole thing is doomed without some stewardship. *sigh* I don't wanna! JRM · Talk 15:29, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I gave it a shot. Love it, hate it, revert it whatever :P. I didn't touch the general discussion except for copying it, that is one beast I wish not to poke. gkhan 16:59, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

How do I create a sandbox in my namespace?

I apologize if this is described elsewhere but I was unable to find it. I want to create a sandbox in my namespace. How do I do that? I suppose this goes along the lines of "How do I create any new page in my namespace?" --David R Wright 22:38, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Type in the Search box something like User:David R Wright/Sandbox, and create the page from there. ~~ N (t/c) 22:44, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia's CSS - disappearing border in tabs

I've gone through all the CSS files I can find used in the Monobook skin, but I can't seem to figure out the code that makes the bottom border of the tabs (at the top of the page) disappear when your mouse hovers over them. There aren't even that many :hover instances in what I could find. Can anyone point out the rule that makes the border disappear, and take a chunk of the border of the article with it? Phoenix-forgotten 22:01, 2005 August 5 (UTC)

Looks like it's the z-index manipulations at http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/monobook/main.css on the rules for "#p-cactions li a", "#p-cactions .selected a" and "#p-cactions li a:hover". --cesarb 03:22, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Help!

On the article Left and right, in the "example" section, I want colours in italics and left/right/forwards/back in bold. It's all gone wrong! Could someone fix it please? Sorry to be a pain.-->Energy (talk) 18:13, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

How's that? Joyous (talk) 18:18, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

Category creation

I am trying to make 'Category:Alcohol abuse' and i've linked it up to a couple dozen pages. However, it still thinks it does not exisist, regardless of the 'few minutes' it takes for the database to update. Can anyone else see it? Do I have to put some special template in the page? What am I doing wrong? JoeSmack (talk) 18:09, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

You needed to create the category description page at Category:Alcohol abuse. Fawcett5 has done this for you in the meantime. -- Cyrius|✎ 21:02, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Webforum articles

I've noticed an influx of articles on borderline-notable discussion forums/messageboards. What seems to happen is that one of the forum insiders decides to post an article about a fave forum. Then others from the forum descend, prompted by a post back at the other site. Everybody contributes their own bit of trivia, including memes, usernames, insults, and in-jokes. They tend to end up as a huge mess, like EGM NGR. Basically, the article becomes an extension of the forum, rather than an impartial description of it. Do we have a few good articles about not-huge web forums, so we can point new editors to them as examples? Joyous (talk) 04:02, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

A sayyid-hater

Um, we've got a new user, an anon IP, 69.111.161.69, who has strong feelings about sayyids, or descendents of Muhammad, and is venting them in several articles (Grand Ayatollah al-Shirazi and Sayyid). When the intrusions were removed, his response was:

personal attack removed by Superm401 | Talk 02:03, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

Well, he's right in that I shouldn't have used the term "ranting", but I think his response was more than a little over-the-top <g>.

Could we have some admin attention here? This guy is on a roll, and a number of editors and articles are being attacked, some with much less justification. -- Zora 10:31, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

The Graphic Newspaper

Please can someone help me with this article i'm trying to create(The Graphic Newspaper) I have stared it but would be greatful if someone could help to format it and add more information to it. Thankyou. Yellowmellow45 13:30, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

My first suggestion is that you search for content from the paper itself. The best explanation of a grapefruit is a grapefruit, not a description or photo of a grapefruit. When you have located some fragment -- of any kind -- and integrated it into the article, talk to me. — Xiong熊talk* 15:06, 2005 August 7 (UTC)

encyclopedia or one reporter's opinion?

To anyone at Wikipedia,

I was told about this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_guitar , re:Strings and tuning

I don't know about you,but I find it to be a sad day when folks want to try and rewrite history with their version.

I don't know who wrote this article and where this writer got his/her information from , but it reads as an opinion and an advertisement as opposed to facts in an Encyclopedia.

The section in the article about" Strings and tuning" is somewhat "shaded' and excludes real,well know facts. I know Bill Dickens,I consider him a friend and a great bassist. However, is it a fact that he is the most prolific 7-string bass guitar session bassist? No. I had a 7-string bass guitar( widely accepted in the bass community as the very first one) custom made in 1987.It is documented.It wasn't until five years later that Conklin made 7 string basses commercially available.I have done hundreds of recording sessions with my 7 string bass since the 1980's.The contracts are on file at the Musician's Union.I have been playing 7 string bass longer than anyone.How does the writer know how many seesions Bill or I ,or any other 7-string bassist has done?

So this sentence: "

"The most prolific 7 string player is session man Bill "Buddah" Dickens. " is not accurate. Nothing against Bill,but it just is an opinion. How can anyone in their right mind make a statement like this?

Here is another example: "The 9 and 11 string basses are played by virtuoso Jean Baudin, best known for his work with metal band Nuclear Rabbit." Wrong

Bill Dickens may have been the first with a 9 string bass. Who is qualified to label Jean Baudin a "virtuoso"? As of today,none of his 11-strings (none of which are in his possesion yet) have strings on them yet. How can someone write that he is a virtuoso 11-string player? He really hasn't played one for any length of time. Jean is a nice guy and has some great concepts going on.There are many good 7-9 string players.Why not mention them? The word virtuoso does not proceed the othe player's names mentioned on this page,some of who are indeed virtuosos.

Please consider these well known facts:

The 11-string bass guitar was first built by Mike Adler in 2004 and,I own it and I am the first 11-string bass player. The first 7-string bass was a custom order made by me to Tobias guitars in winter 1986. There are many 9-string bass players, like Al Caldwell who plays for Vanessa Williams. Al also has an 11-string. I commisioned Adler Guitars to build the first single string,12-string bass with 92 notes ,7-1/2 octave range in 2003.It is the first of it's kind.It has a greater range than an 88 note piano.It was completed this year. Bassist Jauqo III-X conceived of a 17 hz low C# string and with S.I.T. strings,made it a reality. Jauqo is the first with the 3x5 15-string bass The original tuning of the 7-string bass is B-E-A-D-G-C-F. The original 6-string bass tuning was E-A-D-G-B-E Thanks to a new string I've developed ,the 4x3 12 string basses can now have 3 octaves. Why doesn't the writer of this article know this?

I have been playing bass for 40 years.When someone does a search on-line for extended range basses and "Wikipedia" pops up,they may read this article and actullay think it's all factual. It's not,it's incomplete,and very opinionated.I don't care if my name is mentioned in an encyclopedia,just facts. I attempted to edit it this,and found it was restored to how I found it. For example,I changed "The most prolific 7 string player is session man Bill "Buddah" Dickens. " to "A prolific 7 string player is session man Bill "Buddah" Dickens. "

What does it take replace opinion with fact on Wikipedia?

Thanks Garry Goodman ninestring@yahoo.com

Garry, you could easily add all of that material to the article in question. It seems like you must be one of the best-qualified people available to write about these types of bass guitar, so there ia no doubt that any article would be improved by your input. You should probably copy this material to the article's talk page and reference your edits to this explanation. Thanks illWill 21:05, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

NEED E-MAIL ADDRESS

Hello, MY name is DANE MARTIN, E-MAIL ADDRESS: [removed] . I was reading an article in Wikipedia today about Henry Ford II and it referenced the "Whiz Kids", a group of about a dozen very intelligent & think-tank type of people whom Henry Ford II hired at approx. 1950. One of these "Whiz Kids" was a man named Ed Lundy, and you have a page about him that you can link to from the Henry Ford II page.

Anyway, my family is friends with Ed Lundy, especially my father who worked with him for ten years prior to Mr. Lundy's retirement and remained friends with him for several years after that. However, in the past 5 - 6 years, my father has lost contact with Mr. Lundy, mainly due to two reasons: 1) my father moved to Florida about 6 years ago, and 2) Mr. Lundy's health was getting rather poor, but still OK for a man of about 90 years old.

My question to you is can you provide either or both to me: Mr. Lundy's e-mail address and/or his mailing address? I ask this so my father can contact him again, which I know Mr. Lundy would certainly greatly appreciate. He treated my father as a son, as Mr. Lundy was never married, nor ever had children (Mr. Ford made it very clear to his upper management personnel that they should be married only to the firm, and most did just that). Do you have either or both that you can provide to me so my father can contact him again? My father is also getting up in age (about 75 and has prostrate cancer, so who knows how long he has left on Earth and to again visit with his old friend, Ed Lundy?

If you or Mr. Lundy would feel better to contact me instead of me contacting him, from you giving me Mr. Lundy's e-mail and/or mailing address, that obviously would be more than fine. You have my e-mail address on the first sentance above and my cell phone number is [removed] (I live in the Chicago area).

• We do not have any contact information for Mr Lundy, or anyone else who is the subject of an article here. I can only suggest you try contacting Ford, who may be able to forward something to him. I have removed your phone number and email address from this page, as it is not a good idea to post these on a public internet site. Thryduulf 15:27, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Google's cache of edited Wikipedia page

Someone edited a biography of the conductor Sir Richard Armstrong to contain slanderous and threatening text. I have edited out the offensive material but the Google description of the URL (see top entry on a google search for Sir Richard Armstrong)still contains the old text. Will this change - how often does Google's bots look at Wikipedia pages? (Unsigned but by User:Starkiethescot)

I wouldn't worry about it, there's not a whole lot you can do. Google is pretty good at updating caches when it can, and I think I heard elsewhere that they recache Wikipedia more often than most. (By the way, if you add four of the ~ symbol at the end of your comments on talk pages it automatically leaves a signature with your username and time, which makes things much easier.) DreamGuy 11:55, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

User page as personal wiki?

Can I make a subpage to my user page and keep it for personal use like making grocery lists? I know how to make one (by adding a slash to the url) and I know anyone could edit it. My question is can I use the Wikipedia bandwidth for my own personal use? CDA 22:39, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a wiki host. Personal subpages should at least have some minimal relation to Wikipedia. A grocery list is going too far. -- Cyrius|✎ 23:02, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

I'd add that if you want a personal Wiki, there's at least one that doesn't require you to install anything. See TiddlyWiki. --William Pietri 23:08, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

We need a "Javascript only links are not acceptable" standard letter

(Originally posted on Wikipedia_talk:Standard GFDL violation letter) A lot of our mirrors now seem to be using the SEO trick of including the required links to the GFDL and Wikipedia page as javascript, so they don't appear to search engines. This is not acceptable(as many possible viewers of the content may not have javascript on, and so will not know about the GFDL status of the content, which is a violation of the GFDL), but we don't have a standard letter for this. Could somebody write one? I'll do it myself, eventually... JesseW 07:27, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Page issue, not updating?

On Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Taisen 4, I have [[Freeloader (Gamecube)]|Freeloader], but in the edit, it shows [[Freeloader (Gamecube)|Freeloader]] What is going on? --Zeno McDohl 00:40, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Well it's fine now, but took about 30min to show the change... why? --Zeno McDohl 01:33, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Advice please

I noticed that the external link Kerala Pictures was added to Kerala and removed it, commenting in the edit summary, Remove copyvio link. It clearly states "©2005 Funonthenet. All Rights Reserved. No content from our website may be reproduced without our prior written permission. The editor who inserted the link contacted me and there has been a little conversation about it. I think I acted correctly, but I see he has a point too. Can someone please go here and then leave an opinion back on this page. Cheers. Moriori 23:22, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

There is no copyright issue with our linking to an external site, unless perhaps that site is hosting illegal materials (which I don't believe to be the case here). There is an absence of clear policy on when it is acceptable to link to an external site. See Wikipedia:External links. What I enforce is to remove links which are to one of very many similar sites, such as collections of photos, travel agents, or forums, where if we link to one, we have the problem of many other sites also wanting us to link to them. I also prefer non-commercial sites to commercial ones. A site which is linked to from many articles is bad. The link should be to the webpage specifically related to the article, not to the topmost page of the site. Finally, an article which has many external links already shouldn't have more added unless they add extra value.

In the case of this specific site, it is mainly a collection of photos, but they are stunning ones, and the site is not covered with advertisements. It's a judgement call.-gadfium 02:54, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Goosnargh

I have been trying to revise and modify the existing content on towns in Lancashire. The existing Goosnargh entry originally had one line on the town, and a paragraph on a Hitchiker's episode. I would like this page to mention the town, whilst moving the episode info to another page, perhaps a Douglas Adams entry. How would I do this? Or can anyone help me out?

dok 15:15, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

• Move the info about the Douglas Adams stuff to the correct page by cutting it out of the page and including it in the other page and leave edit summaries in which you tell where the text came from and where it went. - Mgm|^(talk) 17:35, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

Formal name to common name, i.e. William Jefferson Clinton to Bill Clinton

Can someone point me to a reference for the best way to begin an article with someone's name. And should you use the formal name or common name for the actual page? Shouldn't Clinton be on the "William Jefferson Clinton" page? Right now he is on the "Bill Clinton" page. And shouldn't his name in the first sentence be written William Jefferson ("Bill") Clinton? And then there is the problem that his name was changed (when he was adopted by a stepfather, I think). Right now it is written in the first sentence like this: William Jefferson Clinton (born William Jefferson Blythe III on August 19, 1946). What is the correct way to do this? It seems to me that the page should be "William Jefferson Clinton" (with redirects for all the variations), then the first sentence should be: William Jefferson "Bill" Clinton (born William Jefferson Blythe III on August 19, 1946). I'm not just asking about Bill Clinton, I'd like to know what the style guide for names in general is but I haven't found it yet. CDA 23:19, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names):

Convention: Use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things.

Examples of common names that should be used instead of formal names are: George W. Bush, Bill Clinton (not [[William Jefferson Clinton]]), Al Gore...

-- Cyrius|✎ 06:16, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, I totally missed that page. CDA 22:31, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Sicilian School

Hi, some time ago I wrote an article about the Sicilian School (Italian Literature). Since the center of the story is Frederick II and his magna curia I wonder if we have a picture that potrays him with his court? By the way, thanks to all those who have helped me clean it up! --Wikipedius 12:24, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

The proper place to request this is at Wikipedia:Requested pictures. That's more likely to be successful than on the VP. Thanks for your work on Wikipedia! (copied to Wikipedius's talk) JesseW 07:34, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Possible copyvio

If anyone has a subscription to Webster's Unabridged online (or has the print version, I suppose), would you please check a possible copyvio? See Talk:Tribadism. Thanks, Tualha (Talk) 12:30, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Bot assistance

Image:Flag of Poland 320px border1.png should be Image:Flag of Poland 640px border1.png because marked as redundant in many wikis and Image:Canada flag.png should be Image:Canada flag 300.png. Can someone replace? I hope the templates are done. But I need to make sur before deletin on commons. --Paddyez 23:57, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Which version?

I am a newcomer, so this may not be the best place to place this. However, because of my limited knowledge, I am not sure if this change to New Kedampa is vandalism, a revert from vandalism, or a different POV. Thanks, --Lunar Jesters 23:52, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Minimum Municipal Obligation

When I searched Wikipedia for information on this subject, I found none. I asked some city officials and an accountant for information on the subject and started an article for Wikipedia. I have saved it as a sub page of my user page (User:Dog Whisperer/MMO), and would welcome any and all assistance in correcting errors , or improving it in any way.

Thank you, --Dog Whisperer 20:02, 13 August 2005 (UTC)Dog Whisperer

Looks ready to go. I added a cat and cosmetic changes. Thanks for your contribution. lots of issues | leave me a message 21:27, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

What exactly is the policy of {{WIP}} template???

I would like to know what the policy is of a WIP or INUSE template at Wikipedia. Is it just a 'courtesy' or is it really 'not done' to touch an article with such a template??? In other words: can edits done by others during a "WIP" be reverted without motivation??? I am currently working on the article WGKF, trying my best to make it more neutral and get the right point of view of this federation. Somebody is using all kinds of different ip addresses, this somebody is Peter Lee, to vandalize the article by deleting large parts of text which are important for the right understanding of this federation. This person should stick to HIS organization which is GKIF and he should write THEIR (or HIS) point of view on that article! HIS point of view which he tries to force upon us all is NOT that of our organization, the WGKF! I will wait shortly for a reaction and for an administrator to revert the vandalism of this guy, before I continu my work on the article... Thanks! -- MarioR 14:45, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Edit lock. --cesarb 14:58, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, thank you, I read that already. But nothing is said about {{wip}}. Besides it mentions that for the {{inuse}} template, editing should be finished within a time of 30 - 180 minutes. I have seen pages that had/have this template on for more than a week (e.g. NFTY-MAR and P-61 Black Widow)! How about that? Then I would like to know if there are any repercussions for the person that makes (larger) modifications on an article that has one of these templates on it.

Also, the edits that this person made on WGKF are not even of the kind he would be allowed to make WITHOUT any of these templates, for he deleted a larg part of the text without a legitimate reason. Stating "Removed all about Tosa sensei and Butokukai as neither belong to WGKF. Removed some incorrect information as this is included with the sole purpose of degrading others" is not a legitimate reason, since it DOES have to do with the VIEWPOINT of WGKF and for a better understanding of the reasons why WGKF was created. Besides, nobody is being degraded, only differences are pointed out. Read the text yourself, and tell me where it's degrading? Thanks again! -- MarioR 15:49, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

{{wip}} is a redirect to {{inuse}}. They are exactly the same template. Some people seem to forget the template on pages, and other people sometimes go looking for forgotten inuse templates to remove them. There is no problem with editing pages with the template, other than you are making more work for the one who added the template (who is supposedly editing an offline copy of the article and would have to work hard to merge the changes, or doing some complex shuffling which could get confused by new edits). --cesarb 16:07, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

It's not necessarily just for editing offline; it's also for moving material around within an article, putting a lock on while making a series of edits, etc. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:00, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

Gaps in info available?

A few days back I saw in the press an interview with a minor Indo-Armenian starlet, where she says that she has taken up the new religion of "Kimmaya" or "Kimaya". I can not find anything relevant either in Wikipedia or by a Google search - what is this new religion, and who are its founders, etc. Is there anyone who can help?

Also, I have been searching - on and off - for information on a "St. James' School" in London, England, since the last one year, ever since an Indian settled in London had told me of it; it was, he said, founded and operated by Jews, and operated on Hindu lines, though it had a Christian name. Today, at last, on a Google search, I found the "St. James' School" which is mentioned as a probable cult, founded by a Leon MacLaren, with some association with the London School of Economics, which was itself founded by the Fabian Society leaders - the Webbs, George Bernard Shaw, etc., and also with association with European New Age leaders (Gurjdievsky? / Ouspensky?) (The net does not speak of a Jewish connection) Yet, there is nothing in Wikipedia about any of this.

Tempest Smith

its uopsetting, but pleae go to that article ,and help me make it better. Its upsettting to me, and frankly i cant make it NPOV, becasue its upsettingGavin the Chosen 11:36, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Is this appropriate to put on the Village Pump? I took a look at the article, and I think it might be an idea if you got your ideas together into a more readable form before creating an article - it is decidely un-wiki at the moment, and will probably get VFd if you don't fix it. You could always get the text together oon a sub-page of your user page, and post it when it's a liittle more ordered. illWill 11:57, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Im asking for peopleto assit by fixing it up, i can write about subjects that dont upset me, such as {{SAM2]][ butthis, wll it reminds me to much of friends of mine who died. that sasid, its still important.Gavin the Chosen 12:00, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

If everyone who wanted help fixing up their articles came to this page and asked for it, the page would be overrun. -- Cyrius|✎ 08:47, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

You can add {{cleanup}} to the article to add it to a list of articles needing cleanup. I will do this for this article.--michael180 22:22, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

Untagged Image

I have found an image which is tagged..'Source unknown, Uploader please supply info. etc". I have found the same image in another language wikipedia with "Copyright, but permission to Wikipedia to use if source quoted etc" . What should I do ? I see that persons should not upload this type of image where permission is not given to 3rd parties besides Wikipedia. Conce 00:31, 2005 August 8 (UTC)

See WP:ICT for image tagging. If permisson is given only for Wikipedia and not for 3rd Parties put the tag: {{Copyrighted}}.--michael180 22:19, August 13, 2005 (UTC)