Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Alan Deere

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Hog Farm (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 23:20, 9 October 2021 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Alan Deere

Instructions for nominators and reviewers

Nominator(s): Zawed (talk)

Al Deere was probably the best known of the New Zealand flying aces of the Second World War due to his successes during the Battles of France and Britain, but also to his numerous close calls. I think he is a particularly interesting individual and I have enjoyed working up the article into its present state. It went through the GA process last May and I have since come back and made some revisions. As always, my thanks in advance to all those who stop by to provide comments and feedback. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 09:28, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by Ian

I've begun my habitual copyedit and gotten up to the end of the Battle of Britain. Looks good, as expected -- at this stage I have one general comment and one specific:

I think there's a bit of fat that could be trimmed but I'd like to complete my general copyedit first, and also see if anyone else feels the same, before we look further at that.
Re. "in the hands of a good pilot was a tough nut to crack. Initially, it was faster in the dive, but slower in the climb; the Spitfire could out-turn but it was at a disadvantage in manoeuvres that entailed negative G forces [sic] -- I might be missing something but not sure why the [sic] is required...

That is because I think it should be "g forces" rather than "G forces". I didn't want to be pinged for incorrect presentation when this was reviewed! Zawed (talk) 09:18, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, while lower-case "g" is correct I don't think the cap is a real prob in the quote. Since the "sic" made me go "Uh?" rather than the "G", you can guess my opinion! I suppose you could leave and see what others think... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:35, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:06, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, completed my copyedit, trimming a bit but not taking a meat cleaver to it. Having checked image licences and with Nick's source review saving me some trouble, happy to support.
Just a suggestion re. sources: some interesting snippets about Deere in Stephen Bungay's Battle of Britain history, The Most Dangerous Enemy -- obviously I don't want to add much more detail to the article, and there are many BoB books you could mine, this just happens to be a choice account that I have handy. If interested I could tell you more or just go ahead and edit in and see what you think... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:35, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ian, thanks for the support and CE. I have a copy of Bungay, acquired after going through the GA process for this article. I'll pull it out and see what I can do. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 10:59, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oh cool -- FWIW the items that first came to mind were his involvement in the Battle of Barking Creek (not in the article as yet) and his reaction to Churchill's "the few" speech (maybe a quote box?). Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:20, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ian, I have added some content from Bungay now if you want to take a look. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 11:04, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Hawkeye7

I don't think "Leader" needs to be capitalised in the headings. (MOS:HEADINGS)

Made lower case. Zawed (talk) 09:17, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comma before fns 74, 102 (in later life), 103, 108 (scraping the barrel here)

Done. Zawed (talk) 09:17, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Any idea when he was promoted to wing commander?

It will have been when he became wing leader at Biggin Hill in March 1943. However, the main source doesn't explicitly state that, it simply switches to referring to him as wing commander part way through the section dealing that period of the war. Zawed (talk) 09:17, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, one of my older sources confirms the promotion, so have added and cited it. Zawed (talk) 10:28, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Of the several New Zealanders who achieved the status of a fighter ace" Any idea how many there was?

There were quite a surprising number but I would prefer to not get into the exact amount as it will probably vary depending on how victories are tallied. Plus I don't have a source that tallies the exact number! Zawed (talk) 09:17, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"By this time he had been promoted to air commodore" Could we have the exact date? (avoiding by then... by this time)

Have added and rephrased. Zawed (talk) 09:17, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Link Hodder & Stoughton?

Done. Zawed (talk) 09:17, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

" In his later years, he suffered from cancer" Any idea what sort?

Cancer of the colon, have added. Zawed (talk) 09:17, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Consider adding Nine Lives to the Further reading list.

Done, don't why it didn't occur to me to add it. Zawed (talk) 09:17, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good to me. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:49, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review Hawkeye, much appreciated. Zawed (talk) 09:17, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - pass

Looks good:

All sources are reliable
There's a heavy reliance on Al Deere: Wartime Fighter Pilot, but this seems OK as it looks to be the only full-length book on this person.
- Butting in, I notice it's published by Grub Street, home to Chris Shore's book, which is something of a bible for us WWII Commonwealth ace biographers; it's also the publisher of what seems to be the definitive WWI Commonwealth aces tome, Above the Trenches by Shores, Norman Franks and Russell Guest. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:31, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thanks Ian. Yep, Grubb Street is a publisher with a good track record in this field. Nick-D (talk) 09:31, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Spot checks:
- Ref 80 (Thompson 1956, p. 174) - checks out
- Ref 120 ("No. 43369". The London Gazette (Supplement). 26 June 1964. p. 5643.) - checks out
- Ref 129 ( Moroney, Roger (5 January 2014). "Spitfire roars back into life". Hawke's Bay Today) - checks out
No issues with close paraphrasing with these spot checks. Nick-D (talk) 04:27, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the source check Nick-D, and congrats on being made emeritus! Zawed (talk) 07:55, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, and thank you Nick-D (talk) 09:31, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - pass

All images Crown Copyright or, in one case each, CC0 and a user's own work. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:15, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Ian. Zawed (talk) 07:56, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by AustralianRupert

Support: G'day, great work as always. Just a few minor nitpicks from me: AustralianRupert (talk) 13:19, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

infobox says service year 1937-1967, but the lead indicates he joined the RAF in 1938. This seems inconsistent.

He was in flight training from late 1937. I have tweaked the lead to refer to him being commissioned in 1938. Zawed (talk) 02:56, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"a worker with the New Zealand Railways" --> "a New Zealand Railways worker"?

Done. Zawed (talk) 02:56, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"he represented Wanganui at the New Zealand Boxing Championship": do we know where he placed in this competition?

No, unfortunately I don't and can't get access to Smith, the main source, at the moment because of being in lockdown. My other sources don't how he placed but I think they would mention it if he had done particularly well. Zawed (talk) 02:56, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"flying convoy patrols" --> "flying convoy escort patrols"?

Done. Zawed (talk) 02:56, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"although with his Spitfire badly damaged with its engine on fire" --> "although his Spitfire was badly damaged with its engine on fire"?

Done. Zawed (talk) 02:56, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"in an incidence of friendly fire" --> move the link to the first mention of friendly fire

Done. Zawed (talk) 02:56, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"rank of flight lieutenant" --> already linked earlier

De-linked. Zawed (talk) 02:56, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"his biographer considers" --> suggest naming this author in text

Done. Zawed (talk) 02:56, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

AustralianRupert, thanks for taking a look at this one. Hope life is treating you and yours well over there. Zawed (talk) 02:56, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

G'day, thanks for your tweaks, I have added my support now. Everyone back home is well, thanks. Hoping to see them soon. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 13:46, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.