Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Frank Worsley

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted Hawkeye7 (talk) 20:18, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Frank Worsley[edit]

Nominator(s): Zawed (talk)


I am nominating this article for A-Class review because it has been substantially expanded and I believe it meets the A-Class criteria. Frank Worsley was a merchant seaman, a sailor, a polar explorer alongside Ernest Shackleton, a lecturer and he did a bit of treasure hunting on the side. In WWI, he was captain of a Q-ship and took on German U-Boats and was awarded a DSO for sinking a sub. After the war he went to Russia to deal to the Bolsheviks and picked up a bar to his DSO (in a land action!). In his late 60s at the start of WWII, he was keen as mustard for a second round with the Germans. In short, he was quite a tough bugger. I found this 'start' class article earlier this year and have really enjoyed expanding it from what it was. I hope to take this one up to FAR in the near future. Zawed (talk) 10:31, 1 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

SupportComments: G'day, I've just had a quick look so far. I've made a few small tweaks and have a couple of minor comments. I plan to come back tomorrow night:

  • this sentence doesn't quite make sense: "With a party of sailors from the SMS Falke, also anchored in the harbour, boarded the Tutanekai looking for the ensign";
  • inconsistent presentation: 'Q ship', Q-ship and Q-ship. AustralianRupert (talk) 12:19, 1 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have made tweaks to the article to address the comments above. Zawed (talk) 09:05, 2 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • G'day, overall I think that the article is quite good, but there are a few minor prose issues that I think need to be worked through. A few examples below (happy to discuss if you disagree):
    • "He became a third mate" (can third mate be linked?)
    • I found this sentence a little awkward: "That night, Worsley snuck ashore and absconded with the Imperial Germany ensign that..."
    • "Despite an approach by Worsley to the authorities just prior to the departure of the Endurance, he was advised..." --> "Just prior to the departure of the Endurance Worsley approached the authorities and was advised..."
    • "Trapped in the ice, the ship would slowly drift westwards with the ice, and the expedition settled in for the winter" --> "Trapped in the ice, the ship slowly drifted westwards with the ice, and the expedition settled in for the winter"
    • "The original plan had been to leave a shore party on the Antarctic mainland and Worsley to take the Endurance northwards. There had not been..." --> "The original plan had been to leave a shore party on the Antarctic mainland while Worsley took the Endurance northwards, and there had not been..."
    • "By July, it was becoming obvious that the ice was likely to result in the Endurance, which creaked and trembled under the pressure, being crushed and..." --> "By July, it became obvious that the ice might crush the Endurance, which creaked and trembled under the pressure, and...
    • "Throughout August and September, there were several close calls where the ship was in danger of being crushed by ice" (the second part seems repetitious);
    • "Worsley was initially incredulous, asking Shackleton: "You seriously mean to tell me that the ship is doomed?" who responded "The ship can't live in this, Skipper." --> "Worsley was initially incredulous, asking Shackleton: "You seriously mean to tell me that the ship is doomed?" Shakleton responded "The ship can't live in this, Skipper."
    • "Having travelled only a mile and a half (2.4 km) from where the Endurance sank" --> "Having travelled only a mile and a half (2.4 km) from where the Endurance had sunk";
    • "they set up camp to await the breakup of the ice" --> "they set up camp to wait for the ice to break up";
    • "The expedition stayed here for several weeks" --> "The expedition stayed there for several weeks";
    • "It took a week to reach Elephant Island, the ice and currents inhibiting the progress of the lifeboats" --> "It took a week to reach Elephant Island, the ice and currents inhibiting progress".
    • "His handling of the Dudley Docker was admirable" (to whom was it admirable? or is their a better way of describing it?)
    • "on April 15" --> "on 15 April";
    • I stopped at the start of the Voyage of the James Caird section. AustralianRupert (talk) 08:56, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have dealt with the above comments as well as having another pass over of the remainder of the article. I look forward to the rest of your comments. Cheers. Zawed (talk) 23:35, 6 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No worries, your changes look good. Continuing my review below. AustralianRupert (talk) 03:07, 7 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Imperial Germany ensign" --> "German Imperial ensign"?;
  • "On 24 April, the weather dawned clear and after being provisioned with 30 days of supplies, the boat left Elephant Island the same day" ("the same day" is probably redundant here);
  • should "PC.61" and "UC-33" be presented in italics?
  • "the return trip was nearly a disaster". Could this be clarified? Did they nearly sink, or was the ship damaged in someway?
  • "The expedition included several Endurance" (Endurance here should be in italics, I believe);
  • "This was the last of his involvement with the expedition" --> "This was his last involvement with the expedition"?
  • "displays the Ensign " --> "displays the ensign"? AustralianRupert (talk) 03:07, 7 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Dealt with the above comments now. Thanks for taking the time to review this article. Zawed (talk) 08:51, 7 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No worries, your changes look fine. Good luck with taking the article to FAC. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:36, 11 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • CommentsSupport
    • No dab links [1] (no action req'd).
    • External links all check out [2] (no action req'd).
    • Some of the Images lack Alt Text so you might consider adding it [3] (not an ACR requirement - suggestion only).
    • The Citation Check Tool reveals no issues with reference consolidation (no action req'd).
    • Images are all PD/free and are appropriate for the article (no action req'd).
    • The Earwig Tool reveal no issues with copyright violation or close paraphrasing [4] (no action req'd).
    • No duplicate links per WP:REPEATLINK (no action req'd).
    • In the lead this is a little repetitive: "He was responsible for the ramming and sinking of a German submarine, SM UC-33, in a skilful ramming manoeuvre on 26 September 1917." Ramming twice. Consider more simply: "He was responsible for the ramming and sinking of a German submarine, SM UC-33, in a skilful manoeuvre on 26 September 1917." (suggestion only)
    • This seems a little off: "He also wrote several books relating to his experiences in polar exploration and sailing career.", perhaps: "He also wrote several books relating to his experiences in polar exploration and during his sailing career..." or something similar.
    • Typo here: "By July, it was became obvious that the ice was might crush the Endurance..." delete "was" in "was might".
    • Possible typo here: "After just three days, it was clear that the condition of the ice was too rough for sledging...", is "sledging" right or should it be "sledding"?
    • "...Shackleton he could not calculate their position to less than ten miles accuracy...", perhaps add the {{convert}} template here for 10 miles so those more familiar with kms know the distance?
    • A little repetitive here: "Despite extensive searching with a crude metal detector, no trace of the treasure had been found by September. Worsley, with a lecture season beginning in London in October, left the island in early September. This was his last involvement with the expedition. Despite searching...", perhaps reword? Anotherclown (talk) 10:17, 14 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for the review AC. I have made the changes suggested although I went further in a couple of instances, so check you are happy with them. Regarding your "sledding" query, I checked my main source (Thomson) and the use of "sledging" is correct. Zawed (talk) 11:23, 14 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Too easy, "sledging" sounds like cricket to me but no worries. All the best. Anotherclown (talk) 19:11, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Some comments not a complete review: - Dank (push to talk)

  • In general, see WP:Checklist.
  • "Cornwall, Wairoa": What kind of ships?
  • "for a time ... for a time": repetition
  • "in 1887, [he] attempted to join the New Zealand Shipping Company. However, small in stature, his application was declined": in 1887, his application to join the New Zealand Shipping Company was declined because of his short stature
  • "despite minimal growth since his first attempt at joining the company": despite his minimal growth
  • "After the ship's captain protested, the Germans left without recovering the ensign.": but they left empty-handed after the ship's captain protested. - Dank (push to talk) 02:13, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the comments thus far. I have dealt with the specific issues noted above, and will review the text again with respect to the WP:Checklist. RE the Cornwall, I don't have info on what kind of ship it was. Zawed (talk) 10:09, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Dank, I have done a pass over of the text which has been tightened up in a few places for sake on conciseness mainly. Hopefully that will be satisfactory. Zawed (talk) 10:49, 23 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This wasn't meant as a review, only as a guide to help you spot some things that reviewers tend to point out, like repetition. I see some of the things I mentioned haven't been addressed, and that's fine, but I'm taking on extra work now and won't be able to finish up. Best of luck. - Dank (push to talk) 12:39, 23 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
For other potential reviewers, please note I am still monitoring this review and would appreciate any further comments and suggestions. Where possible I have made changes as a result of the specific comments above and assume that Dank's comment regarding things he has mentioned which haven't been addressed are in relation to WP:Checklist. Without further guidance on this and having looked at it again, I am not sure what hasn't been addressed. I'm not ignoring the feedback. Zawed (talk) 00:39, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on prose per standard disclaimer. I've fixed the repetition I pointed out earlier and more elsewhere; please check the history to see what I did. - Dank (push to talk) 17:55, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks Dank. Going through your changes was helpful - and I have to apologise; I thought I had fixed all the issues you initially raised but clearly missed some, which puts your comment on 23 July in better context for me. Cheers. Zawed (talk) 07:07, 3 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by Peacemaker67 (send... over) 11:55, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • what was he appointed OBE for? I believe the OBE should be mentioned in the lead given its precedence is immediately after the DSO and well above the Polar Medal.
    • The OBE was for services to Great Britain according to my main source. No further detail available. Zawed (talk) 10:22, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link the Order of St. Stanislaus, and maybe even include it in the infobox, it was actually an order of pretty high precedence in Imperial Russia.

more to come...

  • there are a number of instances of "the HMS". I believe the correct grammar is to drop "the". Per "He was posted to the HMS Psyche" It is rendered inconsistently in the article. Suggest you check all instances of HMS.
  • suggest "hove to" should be "heave to" in this instance.
  • "They had expected to use the Aurora, which was owned by Shackleton, with himself as its captain." Do you mean Shackleton or Worsley as captain?
    • Have moved the ownership mention to the previous paragraph and just stated "with himself as captain". Zawed (talk) 10:22, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • link torpedo when first mentioned (training) and rm the current link.
  • suggest "he participated onin a raid"
  • link Frank Wild and Leonard Hussey
  • insert a comma after "A week was spent in Portugal undergoing repairs"
  • link Rio de Janeiro
  • "Icelanic descent and preparing" → "Icelandic descent and was preparing"
  • insert a comma after "which had not been sighted since 1707"
  • link Tromsø

down to "The Arctic" more to come

  • The "Notes" could probably go to 30em rather than 3 columns, given how many there are.

Review completed. A really comprehensive article, well done. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 05:24, 30 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, thanks for taking the time to review this one. Secondly, I have dealt with the issues you have spotted - a couple of indented comments above for specific points. Icelanic? I am constantly amazed at the little typos that get overlooked despite going through the article dozens of times! Zawed (talk) 10:22, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I know what you mean, I often wonder how I could have missed a typo etc. A pleasure to review, took me back to the days of studying these crazy expeditions at school. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 10:43, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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