Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Mells War Memorial

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Peacemaker67 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 23:30, 9 October 2017 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Mells War Memorial[edit]

Nominator(s): HJ Mitchell (talk)

Featured article candidates/Mells War Memorial/archive1

I've been saving this one. I've been working on it on and off for a while but I've just put the finishing touches to it and I think it's ready. This is something a bit different. Mells is not a major city (its population in 2011 was just over 600), but the story of its war memorial poignantly tells the story of Britain in the First World War. People from all walks of life went off to the front, 21 of them never to return; Arthur Asquith (the prime minister's son, no less) had the unenviable task of unveiling a memorial on which his own brother and brother-in-law were listed. I'd love to take this to FAC, so as ever all feedback is much appreciated! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:52, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Harrias ^talk

References: 15 and 16 need full-stops at the end for consistency with the rest.
- Well spotted, done.
Images are all appropriately licensed. The A-class criteria doesn't seem to require alt text, but it would be a nice addition all the same.
- I'm not sure what the alt text could usefully say given that the memorial is described in detail in the text and the purpose of alt text is to give a description of the image but I'm open to suggestions.
"..including memorials to sons from the families killed in the war." The word here is a bit ambiguous; it could be read that the families were killed. Also, the use of "sons" jars a little with later in the lead, when it talks about someone's brother. Maybe change "sons" to "men", and rephrase to avoid ambiguity.
- I've reworded to avoid the garden path but I think "sons" is an important detail, given that it was their parents who commissioned Lutyens.
"..from the Doulting Stone Quarry in nearby Doulting.." Probably no need for the repetition of Doulting; maybe just "..from the stone quarry in nearby Doulting.."
- Done.
"..for his war war memorials.." Remove repetition of "war".
- Done.
"Mells is the most intricate of three of Lutyens' civic war memorials featuring.." Feels a bit clunky, how about "Mells is the most intricate of Lutyens' three civic war memorials featuring..."
- You're the second person to query this so I've rewritten that passage. Let me know what you think.

Overall a nice article, very little to quibble really. Harrias ^talk 13:04, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for the comments, and for the keen eye, Harrias! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:29, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support, nothing more to quibble from me, good work. Harrias ^talk 16:38, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

~~Comments~~ This is a very interesting, and very moving, article. I have the following minor comments:

"Lutyens also accompanied the family in placing a memorial," - this wording is a bit unclear. Can a more specific word than 'accompanied' be used?
- It just means he was there (he and Lady Horner were apparently quite close friends), but on reflection I'm not sure it's a necessary detail so I've written it out.
The article implies that the Horner family essentially commissioned the memorial - is this correct, or was it commissioned by the local council or similar?
- They certainly made the introduction and led the whole process. Even in the early 20th century the manor still dominated village life so it's entirely possible that they took things into their own hands. There was some public consultation (as detailed in the article) but if the council or some formal committee was involved, the sources don't mention it.
  - Fair enough Nick-D (talk) 06:40, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
When was the memorial to the Second World War added? Nick-D (talk) 05:27, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- We don't know. This is something I've found in many of my memorial articles—it seems nobody seems to have thought to record the details of the WWII additions to WWI memorials. Thanks very much for reading, Nick! Glad you found it interesting. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 06:20, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - That's interesting - the heritage listings for comparable Australian memorials tend to have these kinds of details. I guess we have a lot less heritage to research and record though!

Support My comments are now addressed - thanks for the very quick response. Nick-D (talk) 06:40, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Three images. All have appropriate licences. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:41, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

"the Thiepval Memorial to the Missing on the Somme" This sounds odd to me, as I'm used to the Somme being a department (although Wikipedi informs me it was abolished in a reorganisation in 2016) and I'd normally say "in the Somme". Would "of the Somme" be better?
- I've always thought of it as an area, not just an administrative unit, along the lines of, say, Salisbury Plain, but "of" works just as well.
  Oh. I though Salisbury Plain was an Army base, like Puckapunyal. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:45, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Surprised that Lady Frances Horner doesn't have an article, given that she has an ODNB entry. And what do you mean by "originally a 16th-century manor house in the centre of the village"? Has it been converted into a pub?
- Note that I was also initially confused by this; but the subsequent sentence (and the article) helped to clarify that it was originally a 16th century manor house that was demolished, and then rebuilt by Lutyens in the 20th century. But given that it threw us both, it might be worth seeing if it can be reworded to make it easier to follow in the article? Harrias ^talk 19:51, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - Does dating originally from the 16th century work better? And if it makes you feel better it's not a gender thing this time—Sir John doesn't have an article either. Both are clearly notable though. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:31, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Is the Kensington School of Art the Kensington School of Art in London?
- I think so, but art schools are not m speciality. I've created a redirect though.
Why are only 14 villagers listed if 21 died?
- I wondered this as well. My best guess is it includes later DOWs, or the criteria were changed (as happened in several places), for example to include sons who had moved away but whose parents still lived in the village, or men shot for cowardice weren't originally included (again not that uncommon). But I can't source any of that, it's just conjecture.
The motif of St George fighting the dragon is very common in Australia, because Sunday 25 April 1915 was the Sunday after St George's Day.
At the local church in Melbourne that I used to attend, not only was there a painting of St George standing over the dead dragon like a British 19th century big game hunter with the legend "Gallipoli 1915", but the stained glass windows depicted Christ's disciples in AIF uniforms with slouch hats. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:25, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
He's not very common in modern British art. One of the most prominent examples on a war memorial is Newcastle (upon Tyne, not New South Wales ;) ), which doesn't have an article. Yet. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:36, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Why do we need a footnote in the See Also section?
- We don't really; it was added by another editor and I kept it because it seems harmless at worst, but if you think it should go it can.

Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:41, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:31, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:25, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.