Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tim Cross

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Tim Cross[edit]

Nominator: HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?


Old nomination (from March 2010) here. Time to try this again!

This was the first GA I wrote from scratch and it's one of only a small number of high-quality articles to which I added almost all the content, so it holds some sentimental value and, for some reason, I find the bloke fascinating. Anyway, the first ACR failed on comprehensiveness just over a year ago and I barely touched it since until a few weeks ago. I've re-written parts and hugely expanded the material on his service in Kosovo and early service in Iraq, which is where much of the criticism was directed last time. I think it's ready for A-class now and I'm pondering the prospect of taking it to FAC, so I'd appreciate comments in that general direction. Thanks for reviewing! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:02, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments

  • "His first tour was in Germany, with the British Army of the Rhine in 1971," --> West Germany, as Germany wasn't reunited then.
  • " from 1982–1983" --> "during 1982–1983"
Very well-written article, so one might need a very large magnifying class to spot any faults. Support from me. Sp33dyphil Vote! 09:33, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed both of those, thanks. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:31, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm leaning to support, but was wondering about one or two things:
  • do we know where he lived when young, or which school he went to;
    • No idea. It's not even in Who's Who, which is the usual source for such things
  • "In early 2003, he was appointed the British representative ... following the invasion, and one of three deputies to American Lieutenant General Jay Garner." really needs a citation;
    • Ref'd before I saw your comment (a legacy from it being taken to pieces in my sandbox)
  • the two refs immediately before that are in the wrong order;
    • Fixed already
  • is the weighting on his religion fair? I'd be tempted to cut about a sentence off that, or add one (if one exists) that gives the reader some handle on how it affected his command;
I only make a big thing of the religion because he does—one doesn't appear on a series called Belief or on the Christian Broadcasting Network if one doesn't want to talk about it. I think I've mentioned how it affected his career, but there's another good quote or two I could find
  • has he received any special mentions/awards when a soldier?;
    • A CBE, but nothing else. The highly decorated officers usually come from combat units
  • "married" is mispelled in the lead;
    • No it's not
  • I'd cut "Having always wanted to be a soldier, Cross applied to join the army at the age of fourteen, but was rejected due to his age." from the lead, doesn't seem to warrant inclusion;
    • Snipped
  • in the early part of the "high command" section, are these part of UN, NATO, or merely Army operations, might that be worth a mention.
    • I added that they were NATO operations, but if I keep saying it, it gets a bit repetative, and it is in the first senstence of IFOR, SFOR and Kosovo Force.
None of that alone warrant opposition, but given the article's previous failings it might be worth addressing some – I would support once progress had been made. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 14:32, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Please forgive me for re-formatting your comment, it just makes it easier to reply to (and for me to see what I've addressed and what needs more work). Thanks for the review. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:31, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sure. I didn't expect the list to be so long. I now support accordingly. (Not wishing to make a mountain out a molehill, but "married" was misspelled, and you corrected it. So it's dealt with. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 16:45, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I see! That's what you get when you edit at 2AM! ;) Thanks a lot. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:39, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support -- Another succinct and well-written article, little to copyedit as far as I'm concerned. Prose, content, structure, references and image look fine. As I suggested in a previous ACR, if you could find one or two free "contextual" images (not necessarily of him but representing actions in which he was closely involved) it'd be great, but nothing stopping this being promoted IMO. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 01:14, 29 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks a lot. I see you fixed a few typos, so thanks for having a sharper eye than me (despite the three times I read the whole article just before I nominated it and the two since)! I've struggled to find any images that are at all relevant and freely licensed. I've sent an email requesting permission for another image of him on the Cranfield University website, but I think almost every educational establishment in England is off for the next week, so any response could take a while. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:30, 29 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - only a few minor comments:
    • Probably should be careful here. "Following his retirement, Cross attacked US foreign policy on Iraq, calling the plans "fatally flawed"..." Do the sources say he was attacking US foreign policy, or is this wording editorialising? If this is what the sources say then thats fine, however to me this sounds more like a criticism of operational planning than strategy.
      • Well he's criticised Donald Rumsfeld (then-US Defense Secretary) personally and almost all of the planning was done by the American departments of State and Defense, so I think it's probably fair.
    • This is a little repetitive: "officer he met there to convert. After converting" (convert twice). You might consider rewording. Anotherclown (talk) 11:31, 29 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • BTW the Earwig tool (see here [1]) reveals no copyvio issues or close paraphrasing either (no action required). Anotherclown (talk) 13:46, 31 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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