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Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Lady Saigō/archive1

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Addressed comments from Crisco 1492

[edit]
  • This view contradicts a common impression which maintains that Ieyasu was a ruthless leader who treated all the women in his life, and all of his offspring, as commodities to be used as needed to serve the clan or his own ambitions, but it is also known that he valued personal merit over bloodlines. - This sentence is likewise too long
  • Tokugawa Nobuyasu, Ieyasu's first son by Lady Tsukiyama, was held in confinement until Ieyasu ordered him to commit seppuku. - And a second son? You note that Hidetada was Ieyasu's third son
  • a disconcerting coincidence - According to?
  • As an adult she was adopted into the Saigō clan and as the first consort of Tokugawa Ieyasu, the title "tsubone" (pronounced tsu-BO-neh) was appended to the surname. - This seems to imply that she received both the name Saigo and title tsubone at the same time. Also, the pronounciation should use the IPA (if its necessary at all... this whole paragraph is interesting, but should be at an article on the title tsubone)
    • Clarified time laps between gaining name of Saigo, and later title of "tsubone".
    • Changed pronunciation to IPA, but not sure if it's helpful or not. Should it be removed?
    • Glad you think the section is interesting, and if there was an article on "tsubone", I would link to it. What with all the names presented in the lead and infobox, I thought it important to inform the reader at the beginning, and as best as concisely as possible, why there were various names, and what their significance was. Otherwise, if the topic is of any interest, the reader has to carefully scroll through the article looking for the events that led to each name change. I am of course, open to suggestions. Boneyard90 (talk) 15:21, 19 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The defeat at Yamanaka... was that during a particular war? Or should there be a link to the Sengoku period?
    • It occurred early in the Matsudaira Kiyoyasu's conquest of the Mikawa region. I didn't want to digress much, but I can mention that detail. Also, it's linked to the wrong "Yamanaka Castle", so I'm removing the link. Boneyard90 (talk) 15:31, 19 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Okay. I'm not entirely familiar with Japanese history, so I'm still a little confused on this point. A bit of contextual information may be useful. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:16, 19 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        • Ok, I added that Kiyoyasu was Tokugawa Ieyasu's grandfather, and a couple of other details about clan/clan relationships. That might give it some more context. I've never heard of that campaign described as a "war", because after all, it was the Age of Warring States in Japan. Everybody was at war. Mainly I wanted to provide the explanation of the ties between the Saigo clan and Tokugawa Ieyasu, so yeah, if you don't know that Matsudaira Kiyoyasu was the grandfather, then the significance of the Yamanaka battle might be lost. Boneyard90 (talk) 00:51, 20 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "adulthood" - Scare quotes don't really get your point across. Sexual maturity?
    • Quotation marks are used because that was the term in the source, and because it is unclear what age is precisely meant by "adulthood". Nowadays, of course, we usually mean "age 18"; in the past it probably was "sexual maturity", but it might also have been after some ceremony was performed after the attainment of "sexual maturity". I didn't want to presume the author's meaning. I think if I used "sexual maturity", I would need another source stating that in Sengoku Japan, "adulthood" = "sexual maturity", therefore I used quotes. Should I move the citation from the end of the sentence to the point following the quoted term? Or should I add a redundant citation, at "adulthood" and at the end of the sentence? Boneyard90 (talk) 18:32, 19 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]