Wikipedia talk:Featured article review/William Henry Harrison/archive1

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Checking sources[edit]

Owens[edit]

  • "His father was a Virginia planter, who served as a delegate to the Continental Congress (1774–1777) and who signed the Declaration of Independence" - Owens p. 3
    • Sourcing here is messy. Virginia planter is supported by p. 3, congress delegate and signing the Declaration is on p. 6, but the exact 1774-1777 dates don't seem to be in Owens
Cite removed–text is covered by the next citation.(Smith) Hoppyh (talk) 17:05, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "His Episcopalian father removed him from the college, possibly for religious reasons, and after brief stays at an academy in Southampton County, Virginia, and with his elder brother Benjamin in Richmond, he went to Philadelphia in 1790" - Owens p. 14
    • Good enough
  • "In April 1791, he boarded with Robert Morris and briefly studied medicine at the University of Pennsylvania with Doctor Benjamin Rush and William Shippen Sr.; though he did not graduate, he was considered part of Penn's medical school class of 1793" - Owens p. 14
    • Doesn't mention Rush or Shippen by name, does not state that he was considered part of the Class of 1793
Cite removed–text is covered by the next citation. Hoppyh (talk) 17:26, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He was initially assigned to Fort Washington, Cincinnati in the Northwest Territory where the army was engaged in the ongoing Northwest Indian War" - Owens pp. 14, 22
    • Actually appears on Owens p. 16 (and yes, I'm pretty confident the edition of Owens I got from the library is the same one as was used)
Corrected. Hoppyh (talk) 17:28, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • " In 1793, he became Wayne's aide-de-camp and learned how to command an army on the American frontier; he participated in Wayne's decisive victory at the Battle of Fallen Timbers on August 20, 1794, which ended the Northwest Indian War" - Owens p. 27
    • Aide-de-camp is actually on p. 23, description of Fallen Timbers is pp. 24-25, the the battle broke Native American strength is on p. 26, "learned how to command an army on the American frontier" is probably original research. Harrison seems to have primarily done staff work/courier riding
Citation corrected. Hoppyh (talk) 17:37, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Copyedit and citation added for “learning command”. Hoppyh (talk) 19:48, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Under the terms of the treaty, a coalition of Indians ceded a portion of their lands to the federal government, opening two-thirds of Ohio to settlement" - Owens p. 21, 27-29
    • Better page range is pp. 28-30, doesn't seem to give the 2/3's number
Cite corrected–numbers may be covered by other cites. Hoppyh (talk) 17:41, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "At his mother's death in 1793, Harrison inherited a portion of his family's Virginia estate, including approximately 3,000 acres (12 km2) of land and several slaves. He was serving in the Army at the time and sold the land to his brother." - Owens p. 39
    • Checks out
  • "Harrison asked the judge for permission to marry Anna but was refused, so the couple waited until Symmes left on business. They then eloped and were married on November 25, 1795, at the North Bend home of Stephen Wood, treasurer of the Northwest Territory" - Owens pp. 38-39
    • Actually only p. 39, but at least it's only
  • "Harrison won over his father-in-law, who later sold the Harrisons 160 acres (65 ha) of land in North Bend, which enabled Harrison to build a home and start a farm" - Owens p. 40
    • Doesn't seem to specifically say the he won over his father-in-law. Owens p. 40 discusses Judge Symmes involving Harrison in business stuff, but attributes it to the judge thinking Harrison needed help supporting Anna. p. 39 does say that the men eventually became cordial, but never close, though
Corrected. Hoppyh (talk) 18:58, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Anna was frequently in poor health during the marriage, primarily because of her many pregnancies, yet she outlived William by 23 years, dying on February 25, 1864, at 88" - Owens p. 56 (And another source)
    • Talks about poor health due to pregnancies, I guess date of death is in the other source?
I will assume so. Hoppyh (talk) 18:58, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • " The 13-room home was one of the first brick structures in the territory, and it served as a center of social and political life in the territory during his tenure as governor." - Owens p. 56
    • Does not fare well. 13-rooms does not seem to be support, source says that it was one of the first in Vincennes itself (not saying the territory), and while it refers to it being a place for meetings with the tribal chiefs, does not directly support the "center of social and political life"
Replaced by citations supporting the text. Hoppyh (talk) 20:12, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He campaigned to encourage further migration to the territory, which eventually led to statehood" - pp. 41-45
    • Encouraging further migration is p. 48, but the eventual leading to statehood is not in the immediate area of 41-45. Shouldn't be too hard to source, though
Citation replaced. Hoppyh (talk) 20:33, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He had no authority to vote on legislative bills, but he was permitted to serve on a committee, to submit legislation, and to engage in debate" - pp. 45-46
    • pp. 45-48 is a better range
Corrected. Hoppyh (talk) 20:49, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The eastern section continued to be known as the Northwest Territory and consisted of Ohio and eastern Michigan; the western section was named the Indiana Territory and consisted of Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, a portion of western Michigan, and the eastern portion of Minnesota." pp. 49, 50, 54
    • Actually pp. 47-48, although the source doesn't specify that it was only part of Michigan
Citation fixed. Hoppyh (talk) 20:56, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The two new territories were formally established by law in 1800." - pp.47-48
    • Checks out
  • "On May 13, 1800, President John Adams appointed Harrison as the governor of the Indiana Territory, based on his ties to the west and his apparent neutral political stances." - Owens p. 51
    • Okay, except that the page range is actually 50-51
Done. Hoppyh (talk) 20:59, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "His governorship was confirmed by the Senate and he resigned from Congress to become the first Indiana territorial governor in 1801" - 50-53 and another source
    • Is okay
  • "Harrison began his duties on January 10, 1801, at Vincennes, the capital of the Indiana Territory" Owens p. 53 and Barnhart
    • Okay
  • "The 1804 Treaty of St. Louis with Quashquame required the Sauk and Meskwaki tribes to cede much of western Illinois and parts of Missouri. Many of the Sauk resented the loss of lands, especially their leader Black Hawk; this was a primary reason they sided with the British during the War of 1812" pp. 65-66
    • Actually 87-89, but doesn't mention the War of 1812
Cite fixed and 1812 omitted. Hoppyh (talk) 21:07, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Harrison thought that the Treaty of Grouseland (1805) appeased some of the Indians, but tensions remained high along the frontier" p. 79
    • Actually 104-106
Done. Hoppyh (talk) 21:06, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Treaty of Fort Wayne (1809) raised new tensions when Harrison purchased more than 2.5 million acres (10,000 km2) inhabited by the Shawnee, Kickapoo, Wea, and Piankeshaw tribes; he purchased the land from the Miami tribe, who claimed ownership" - p. 80
    • This is a mess. The article says it's the 1809 Treaty of Fort Wayne, but the 1803 Treaty of Fort Wayne would seem to fit the details and chronology better.
Replaced citation. Treaty of 1809=2.5 million acres. Also copyedit to improve transition to slavery issue in the next paragraph.Hoppyh (talk) 02:08, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He expedited the treaty process, offering large subsidies to the tribes and their leaders, so that it would be in force before Jefferson left office" - p. 92
    • Not on p. 92. This doesn't make sense if the 1803 treaty is being referred to, because Jefferson was in office until 1809. But if it's the 1809 treaty, then the previous sentence doesn't fit as explained in the note above.
Replaced cite and adjusted text accordingly. Timeline looks ok. Hoppyh (talk) 19:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Harrison's pro-slavery position made him unpopular with the Indiana Territory's abolitionists, as he attempted unsuccessfully to introduce slavery into the territory. In 1803, he lobbied Congress to suspend Article VI of the Northwest Ordinance for 10 years, a move that would allow slavery in the Indiana Territory" - pp.68-69
    • Should probably be mentioned that this lobbying occurred after a Harrison-led convention approved the lobbying. Not sure about "introduce slavery", though. Owens p. 67 says that Frenchmen had had slaves in the Northwest Territory for years before Harrison
Done. Hoppyh (talk) 19:59, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "At the end of the suspension period as proposed, citizens in the territories would decide for themselves whether to permit slavery. Though Harrison asserted that the suspension was necessary to encourage settlement and make the territory economically viable and ready for statehood, the proposal failed" pp. 69-72
    • Just says that at the end of the suspension period that it would go back into effect, not seeming to mention the vote, but the rest is fine
Done. Hoppyh (talk) 19:59, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Territory's general assembly convened in 1810, and its anti-slavery faction immediately repealed the indenturing laws enacted in 1803 and in 1805" - pp 179-180
    • pp. 179-180 talks about divorce laws, temperance, and various other morality laws
Replaced citation. Hoppyh (talk) 20:11, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "When reporting to Secretary Eustis, Harrison informed him that the battle occurred near the Tippecanoe River and that he feared an imminent reprisal attack. The first dispatch did not make clear which side had won the conflict, and the secretary at first interpreted it as a defeat; the follow-up dispatch clarified the situation.[71] When no second attack came, the Shawnee defeat was more certain. Eustis demanded to know why Harrison had not taken adequate precautions in fortifying his camp against attacks, and Harrison said that he had considered the position strong enough. The dispute was the catalyst of a disagreement between Harrison and the Department of War, which continued into the War of 1812" - pp. 219-220
    • Talks about post-battle stuff, but the details about the dispatches to Eustis is not there at all
Replace citation. Hoppyh (talk) 20:33, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The press did not cover the battle at first, and one Ohio paper misinterpreted Harrison's first dispatch to mean that he was defeated." - Owens p. 220
    • Checks out
  • " By December, however, most major American papers carried stories on the battle, and public outrage grew over the Shawnee" - pp. 221, 223
    • What is not mentioned, is that while opinion shifted to support Harrison later (p. 222), he was also initially criticized, especially due to the death of Major Hamilton Daveiss. Also, 220-222 is a better page range.
Page range fixed. Hoppyh (talk) 20:36, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Taylor & Taylor[edit]

  • p. 102 - ok

Langguth[edit]

Link at archive.org has been provided for this ref. I will begin sequential review of citations. Hoppyh (talk) 23:14, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • p. 160 - replaced
  • p. 161 - ce text per cite; now ok
  • p. 158-160 - ok
  • p. 163 - chg. to 164
  • p. 164 (1) - chg. to 165
  • p. 165 (4) - ok
  • p. 166 - ok
  • p. 167 - ok
  • p. 168 - ok
  • p. 167-169 changed to 169
  • p. 268–270 changed to 257–270
  • p. 290–292 changed to 290–291. Done. Hoppyh (talk) 19:57, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Madison & Sandweiss[edit]

  • p. 45 (2) - one removed
  • p. 46 - ok

Dowdey[edit]

Greene[edit]

  • p. 9 - changed to p. 44 and ce text Done. Hoppyh (talk) 02:30, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Calhoun[edit]

Cleaves[edit]

  • "On March 26, 1841, Harrison became ill with cold-like symptoms. His doctor, Thomas Miller, prescribed rest but Harrison was unable to rest during the day due to the crowds in the White House; that night he chose instead to host a party with his army friends" - (p. 151). Not verified by source (in case it matters, I used a copy of the 1969 edition). Just really states that he got a cold and asked for a physician on March 27
Text partially adjusted. Hoppyh (talk) 20:46, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • " The prevailing theory at the time was that his illness had been caused by the bad weather at his inauguration three weeks earlier." - again, using a different edition, but not finding this. Source discusses Harrison walking to church though the rain and then walking through cold slush to meet with someone he wanted to make a diplomat
Leaving this as is since it may be the edition; the theory is widely referred to, and is easily sourced. Hoppyh (talk) 20:46, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "More generally, Harrison's death was a disappointment to Whigs, who hoped to pass a revenue tariff and enact measures to support Henry Clay's American system. Tyler abandoned the Whig agenda, effectively cutting himself off from the party" - Also, not finding this in Cleaves - at least the 1969 edition ends with his funeral and doesn't discuss the Tyler presidency
Removed. Hoppyh (talk) 20:49, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Collins[edit]

  • "The following day, Harrison reported to his cabinet that he had become suddenly ill" - not finding this in Collins
Leaving it in for now. Hoppyh (talk) 20:52, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. Hoppyh (talk) 18:12, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He was also administered laudanum, opium, castor oil, camphor with wine and brandy" - no issues
  • "All this only weakened Harrison further, and the doctors concluded he would not recover" - source says "perhaps it was the care that killed him" but does not seem to directly support this
Ok for now. Hoppyh (talk) 20:52, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. Hoppyh (talk) 18:12, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source checking the archived links[edit]

Hoppyh, you asked for help in how to source check the archived links.

Looking here, we find that five sources (Burr, Carnes, Gugin, Hall and Remini) appear to be archived and accessible. Gugin is used to cite quite a bit of text, so I suggest starting with it. All you do is go through all the text cited to Gugin, as indicated here, and make sure that the text in the article is an accurate representation of what is in the source. Hope that helps, if you need more, I will do a more specific sample, as in the ones Hog Farm has done above. If you find lots of problems similar to what Hog Farm is finding, that may inform your decision re whether to continue working here. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:25, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hoppyh, if need be I might be able to borrow a copy of Langguth from a relative over Thanksgiving. And I might be able to get a copy of Collins from a library on the far side of the county. Hog Farm Talk 21:45, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hoppyh keep in mind that a source check involves several things: is the page number or range correct, does the text adequately represent the source, is anything essential left out (ie, one would typically keep an eye out for cherrypicking), is it a reliable source, is there any too close paraphrasing and is there any copyvio. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:57, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Understood. Hoppyh (talk) 23:01, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Gugin & St. Clair source-to-text check by Hoppyh[edit]

  • p. 18 - ok
  • p. 19 - ok
  • p. 20 - 1 adjust. text for accuracy; now ok
  • p. 20, 23 - pp. combo not correct; pages adj. and ce text for accuracy; now ok
  • p. 24 - ok

Burr source-to-text check by Hoppyh[edit]

  • p. 69 - changed to pp. 67–69; now ok
  • p.227–244 - changed to pp. 232–244; ok now
  • p. 258 - changed to pp. 257–258; now ok. Done. Hoppyh (talk) 20:31, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Carnes & Mieczkowski source-to-text check by Hoppyh[edit]

  • p. 38 - correct to p. 39; ok now
  • p. 39 - ok
  • pp. 39–40 - ok
  • p. 41 - 3 refs; first one replaced, others ok Done. Hoppyh (talk) 02:03, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hall source-to-text check by Hoppyh[edit]

  • pp. 301-309 - replaced; no other cites–moved Hall to further reading section. Done. Hoppyh (talk) 02:34, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Remini source-to-text check by Hoppyh[edit]

  • pp. 511-515 - ok
  • pp. 520-521 - copyedit per cite; now ok. Done. Hoppyh (talk) 03:08, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Web sources[edit]

  • "Harrison was the Northern Whig candidate for president in 1836, one of two times that a major political party intentionally ran more than one presidential candidate (the Democrats ran two candidates in 1860). Vice President Martin Van Buren was the Democratic candidate, and he was popular and deemed likely to win the election against a single Whig candidate" - not in source
Done. Text revised, cites added, another removed. Hoppyh (talk) 01:21, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Whig plan was to elect popular Whigs regionally, deny Van Buren the 148 electoral votes needed for election, and force the House of Representatives to decide the election. They hoped that the Whigs would control the House after the general elections. This strategy would have failed, nonetheless, as the Democrats retained a majority in the House following the election" - sourced to a paper on a university file-sharing platform that no longer exists. Given the nature of the platform, we'd need to verify that this is RS and not just some student paper.
Done. Text revised and cite added to verify. Univ. paper retained in case it's ok. I can remove if needed. Hoppyh (talk) 01:21, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The plan narrowly failed, as Van Buren won the election with 170 electoral votes. A swing of just over 4,000 votes in Pennsylvania would have given that state's 30 electoral votes to Harrison and the election would have been decided in the House of Representatives" - same two sources as above, same issues apply
Done. Text revised, cites added to verify. Univ. paper retained but can be omitted if necessary. Hoppyh (talk) 02:03, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Harrison also earned money from his contributions to James Hall's A Memoir of the Public Services of William Henry Harrison published in 1836, and he made an unsuccessful run for the presidency as a Whig candidate" - not in source
Reference to the Hall memoir removed. Text added with Burr cite referencing hero type reception in Phil. Hoppyh (talk) 16:17, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 75 supports the content about Jackson removing him, but also states that he made "bad and frequent" mistakes in his post and states that Colombia was considering expelling him. It looks like the latter bit may be a fact missing from the article, which doesn't state anything about him being problematic there
I have included Freehling’s comment about unspecified “bad and frequent missteps”. I have also added a comment from James Hall’s work which gives a contradictory view of things in Columbia.
Shouldn't Freehling's comment about Colombia wanting to expel him be included as well? Hog Farm Talk 18:16, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Hoppyh (talk) 18:38, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have also made additional reference to Harrison’s ten-page letter to Bolivar before leaving the country, which so struck biographers Hall and Burr that they have reproduced it in full in their works. Hoppyh (talk) 19:59, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He ran for a seat in the United States House of Representatives, but in 1822 lost by 500 votes to James W. Gazlay." - source says he lost, but doesn't mention Gazlay or the margin of victory
Done. Text revised and cite added. Hoppyh (talk) 23:26, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Fellow westerners in Congress called him a "Buckeye," a term of affection related to the native Ohio buckeye tree" - not in source
Text omitted. See end of 1840 campaign section for new material plus two sources that claim the 1840 presidential campaign as the origin for the use of "Buckeyes." Hoppyh (talk) 23:26, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He declined an offer to serve as Secretary of War under President Monroe in 1817." - not in source
Fixed. He wasn't offered it, but sought it. He also was passed over for a post to Russia. Text revised and cite added. Hoppyh (talk) 23:51, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He settled well into a life on his farm but he soon returned to public life." - can't find in source.
Fixed. He settled "well" alright - per the cite, he was well beyond his means. Text revised per cite. Hoppyh (talk) 00:13, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 75 states that he chose "celebrity over duty" after his War of 1812 victory, mentions him running himself into debt, and alludes to him having a "rabid thirst for lucrative office" (possibly a quote from Adams). I wonder if the article is avoiding less positive things about Harrison in sections.
Fixed. See text revision/additions in Ohio politician and diplomat section plus cites. (I have not found the Adams attribution.) Hoppyh (talk) 02:02, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I see the Adams comment about "rabid thurst for office". I am reluctant to include it; Adams and WHH's father were contemporaries, and strong opponents in the Continental Congress; that additional context would be required, and is too tangential. Hoppyh (talk) 02:44, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is just from the three sections Ohio politician and diplomat, private citizen, and 1836 presidential campaign. Hog Farm Talk 14:43, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I’ll be glad work on these. Hoppyh (talk) 15:47, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think the issues raised above have been addressed. Let me know if anything needs further work. Hoppyh (talk) 02:06, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "a requirement for statehood.[2] He was also eager to expand the territory for personal reasons, as his political fortunes were tied to Indiana's eventual statehood" - not seeing where the source discusses statehood
Cite replaced. Hoppyh (talk) 17:15, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This was a prominent political family of English descent whose ancestors had been in Virginia since the 1630s" - source doesn't include all this detail
Cite added. Hoppyh (talk) 17:34, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Harrison was tutored at home until age " - source doesn't seem to mention tutored at home
Cite added. Hoppyh (talk) 18:49, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "John Scott (1804–1878) father of future U.S. president Benjamin Harrison," - source doesn't mention the Benjamin Harrison that was president
Cite added. Hoppyh (talk) 19:09, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Through ref 30; need to take a break here. Hog Farm Talk 06:25, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • "The appointment was made for a twelve year term" - source says that he was appointed and served 12 years, but doesn't explicitly state that this was a single term with a fixed length like the article implies.
Text revised per cite. Hoppyh (talk) 02:42, 9 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Harrison founded Jefferson University at Vincennes in 1801" - source doesn't mention the former name of Jefferson
Text revised per cite. Hoppyh (talk) 23:19, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Harrison had wide-ranging powers in the new territory, including authority to appoint territorial officials and to divide the territory into smaller political districts and counties" - not finding this in the source
Text revised per cite. Hoppyh (talk) 23:33, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • What makes Warof1812.org reliable?
I am unable to confirm RS here; text and source removed to talk page. Hoppyh (talk) 01:40, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Through 50; back later. Hog Farm Talk 14:17, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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