Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/History and geography

General Level 1 Level 2 Level 3 Level 4 Level 5

Level 5 Subpages

People History and geography Society STEM

Introduction

The purpose of this discussion page is to select 50,000 topics for which Wikipedia should have high-quality articles.

Any article currently on this list may be challenged. The discussion is open to the following rules:

Voting count table (>60%)

P = passes F = fails		opposing votes
		0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
0	supporting votes	–	–	–	–	F	F	F	F	F	F
1		–	–	–	F	F	F	F	F	F	F
2		–	–	F	F	F	F	F	F	F	F
3		–	F	F	F	F	F	F	F	F	F
4		P	P	P	F	F	F	F	F	F	F
5		P	P	P	P	F	F	F	F	F	F
6		P	P	P	P	F	F	F	F	F	F
7		P	P	P	P	P	F	F	F	F	F
8		P	P	P	P	P	P	F	F	F	F
9		P	P	P	P	P	P	F	F	F	F

1. Before being closed, a Level 5 proposal must:
   1. Run for at least 15 days; AND
   2. Allow at least 7 days after the most recent vote; AND
   3. Have at least 4 participants.
2. For a proposal to be implemented on the Level 5 list:
   1. It must have over 60% support (see table); AND
   2. It must have at least 4 support votes !votes.
3. For proposed additions from August 2024 onwards, the nominator should list (and possibly link to) at least one potential section in the level 5 vital articles list for the article to be added to. Supporters can also help in this regard.

For reference, the following times apply for today:

• 15 days ago is: 11:25, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
• 7 days ago is: 11:25, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

The following link represent all current Level 5 Vital articles that are classified as History and Geography subjects:

Further information: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/History

Further information: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Geography/Physical

Further information: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Geography/Countries

Further information: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Geography/Cities

Swap Fredericton  5 out for Moncton

Moncton's been NB's largest city since before V5 existed. I think Fredericton would be the most appropriate article to swap out since we only have 42 US state capitals and we can cut a Canadian provincial capital. Canada also looks a bit overrepresented at V5 with 22 cities and a population of 39 million. Vileplume (talk) 02:33, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume (talk) 02:33, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 13:58, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
3. makes sense Aurangzebra (talk) 21:57, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose removal, support addition - We are under quota in Cities and Fredericton seems important in its own right (as the cultural, educational and administrative center of the province). --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   New Brunswick has a population of under 900k, and Saint John is much more important than Fredericton, so it and Moncton should be NB’s two representatives at V5. Vileplume (talk) 13:11, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   I don't doubt that Saint John is important too. Why can't we have three cities for New Brunswick? -Makkool (talk) 14:46, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   Q3 2023 population ~843k. Quebec’s three largest cities are all larger than any of NB’s, yet Sherbrooke is not V5. Vileplume (talk) 15:12, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

• Comment to stop automatic archiving. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:10, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Add Battle of Guilford Court House

The American Revolutionary War  4 could definitely use more than 3 battles when the Civil War has 16. This battle had major effects on the war, led to the Siege of Yorktown  5 which ended the war, became the first American Revolution battle to have its battlefield preserved by the National Park Service, and it even has a town in New Hampshire named after it!

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:51, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support as a swap with some Civil War battle, 16 is way too many. Oppose otherwise. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:11, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

   Which battle would you suggest removing? QuicoleJR (talk) 13:56, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

3. Support add, can't say which Civil War battle should be cut Makkool (talk) 15:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. 16 Civil War battles is too many but the Civil War was still fought on a greater order of magnitude than the American Revolutionary War. (The biggest Civil War battles killed more than the entire Revolution). And if we added another American Revolutionary War battle, I'd add Trenton or Brandywine before this one. _pbp 12:51, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

Remove Blida  5

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Being one of the 58 provincial capitals in Algeria does not make a city vital. Population is not that high and there is not very much historical importance. All it has going for it is having the home stadium for the Algeria national football team, which is not vital. It is also very close to the capital, further decreasing its vitality. Decent number of interwikis, but that is likely for the same reason as the U.S. state capitals. Overall, this city just doesn't have enough going for it to make the list.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:20, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

   I would support either of the swaps listed below. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:29, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

2. Per nom. Would support a swap with Tlemcen or Bejaia. --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. 10 cities for Algeria seems about right ratio-wise and in general, I'm inclined to oppose any city removal unless it's blatantly obvious it shouldn't be included because we are actually under-quota for Cities. However, I would support a swap with either Tlemcen (former capital of Medieval Muslim Algeria, more populous, other important historical events) or Béjaïa (largest city in Kabylia which is a region of Algeria that is large enough, culturally unique enough, and significant enough to the history of Algeria that it should also be at VA5 imo, 6th largest port on the Mediterranean, more populous). Aurangzebra (talk) 17:43, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak oppose per Aurangzebra, although I would support either of the swaps. Vileplume (talk) 22:27, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

• Bilda is the fourth largest city of Algeria, Sidi Bel Abbès  5 seems like a better removal. The Blue Rider 18:28, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

  Strangely, that metric at list of cities in Algeria shows the population of Blida as over 100k more than the article on Blida does, despite being only four years older. Blida has the lowest population among the listed cities going by what the infoboxes in the articles say. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

• Swapping has 4 supporting votes, so it is going to go ahead instead of a removal. So we would have to decide which city to replace Blida with. It's a very tough choice, because both alternatives are quite viable, per Aurangzebra. I'll still nominate Tlemcen, as it is the former capital and because it gets more monthly pageviews than Béjaïa. Makkool (talk) 12:17, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

  I'd also prefer Tlemcen, since we recently added Kabylia  5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 13:52, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

  I vote for Tlemcen too. Aurangzebra (talk) 19:29, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add History of Go

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Go (game)  4 is VA4 and has been around for over two millennia, and the History of Games section is way too sports-based. The only other board game history article we have listed currently is History of chess  5, and I think that there is room for a second one.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:27, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I'm aware that History of gambling does not exist as an article, but it would be the first "history of [game]" topic I'd want to add to the list if it does. I feel like "the most important game for which we have a separate History article on" is not a very good reason to include it, because it probably excludes more important topics which should be added first. I also think sports in general are more popular than games globally, and the greater element of competition in these sports means they have had a more developed history. The average Chinese person probably cares a lot more about, say, the China women's national volleyball team than they care about the game of Go, despite Go being strongly associated with China. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:12, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
2. I feel there's too much of "history of X thing" articles already listed. Go (game)  4 is sufficient. Makkool (talk) 16:31, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

• I beliebe mancala is older and played more. The Blue Rider 00:30, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

  History of mancala does not exist as an article. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:09, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

• I'm not convinced that "history of [recreational item]" is a particularly important class of articles for us to include on this list. Most articles on entertainment and recreation topics are not long enough to warrant splitting out its History section into a separate article. Our article on Doll  4 for example is mostly about the history of dolls, which is fine – there is no issue with not having History of dolls as a separate article, nor is the lack of inclusion of such an article on the V5 list a sign that we don't regard it as an important topic. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:18, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Swap Bratsk  5 with Novokuznetsk

Bratsk is already covered by Irkutsk  5 and Irkutsk Oblast  5. Novokuznetsk, on the other hand, is a major coal mining and industrial centre and has the 16th highest GMP of all Russian cities. Up until recently, it had a higher population than Kemerovo  5. It feels odd excluding it from a list of 6 cities in the Siberian Federal District, let alone 12. Compared to Bratsk, Novo has slightly more interwikis, double the English and Russian pageviews, and 2.4 times the population. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:27, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:27, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Bratsk has 53 daily page views, which quite low. Makkool (talk) 12:19, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Support swap. Interstellarity (talk) 23:08, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Trinity (nuclear test)

Important subtopic of the Manhattan Project. Interstellarity (talk) 13:42, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 13:42, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Manhattan Project  4 is Level 4, so we could spare a subtopic. Makkool (talk) 15:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Battle of Muye

Considered one of the most important battles in East Asian history. _pbp 20:50, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 20:50, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Interstellarity (talk) 00:45, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 15:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
4. The battle ended the 550+ year Shang dynasty  4 and started the 750+ year Zhou dynasty  4. starship.paint (RUN) 12:28, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Add Bessarabia

Currently we list Banat, Galicia, Pomerania and Silesia. Bessarabia is another historical region of Europe with relevance in the modern day.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 18:20, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Decided to land on this side. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 23:54, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:46, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. I would support historical regions like this, but it's really just Moldova  4 with Transnistria  4 traded for Budjak and part of Chernivtsi Oblast  5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:56, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Add Brașov

Brașov has a metropolitan area population of around 350k, making it the fifth-largest city in Romania, and in the same boat as the other Romanian cities on the list, excluding Bucharest  4 and Târgu Mureș  5. I would propose a swap with the latter, but I'd weakly oppose the removal since we're 25 under quota in Cities. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:26, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:26, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Support swap with Târgu Mureș Makkool (talk) 15:01, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Support swap with Târgu Mureș Interstellarity (talk) 00:46, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Makkool (talk) 14:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

   @Makkool: I understand if I am overestimating Romania's importance, but what is your rationale? Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 15:18, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

   I think 8 cities for Romania is just about enough. I would actually support a swap with Târgu Mureș, but not a straight-up add. Makkool (talk) 19:13, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

   I just thought we could have another Romanian city since it is the most populous country in the Balkans  4 (a region that may warrant V3). Mures gets its importance from being the largest city in the Hungarian-speaking Székely Land  5, but I'm not sure if having both the region and the city is necessary.

   Demographically speaking, Mureș has a much weaker case. The largest FUAs in Romania are Bucharest  4 (2.221m), Iași  5 (395k), Cluj-Napoca  5 (386k), Timișoara  5 (352k), Brașov (348k), Constanța  5 (346k), Craiova  5 (264k), Ploiești (248k), Galați  5 (244k), and Oradea (201k). Mureș is a long way down, at 156k. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:18, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

   Bulgaria, Hungary and the Czech Republic have 4 cities each, and their population is about half of Romania's, so that's the reasoning for 8 cities. I've changed my stance now from oppose to swap. Makkool (talk) 15:01, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

   Hmm, Bulgaria has five cities (Sofia at V4, Plovdiv, Varna, Burgas, and Ruse) and a population of under 7 million. Are the five of them really all important enough for V5? Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:34, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

Add Causes of World War I

Covers several events that may not be vital in themselves but together are quite important, such as the First Moroccan Crisis, the Bosnian Crisis, the Agadir Crisis, and the Anglo-German naval arms race. It is ranked Top Importance by WikiProject European History, same as Causes of World War II  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
2. We list Causes of World War II, may support Causes of the Great Depression. Interstellarity (talk) 00:48, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 15:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
4. It's needed. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 03:11, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

1. How many war causation articles are at VA?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:17, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Some post-Soviet regions

Add Central Federal District

It has by far the highest population (40m+) and GDP (~566b) of Russia's federal districts. Should most certainly be at V4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Strong support as nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 14:02, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Interstellarity (talk) 11:32, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Moscow Oblast

Major component of the Moscow metropolitan area with a population of ~8.5m and a GDP of $72 billion. Most certainly more vital than the vast majority of the republics. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 14:02, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:49, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Sure. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 03:10, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Krasnodar Krai

The Kuban is a culturally distinct region of Russia with a population of ~5.8m. and a GDP of $35 billion. Most certainly more vital than the vast majority of the republics. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 14:02, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:49, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Donbas  5

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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A historically relevant region of Ukraine that only became more relevant during the Russo-Ukrainian War  5. 3 of the 24 Ukrainian cities we list are located in the region and so was one-seventh of the pre-war population. I'd probably support this at V4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Support per nom. Gizza (talk) 01:47, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 14:02, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
4. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:24, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add all 7 geographical regions of Türkiye

Türkiye and Iran have comparable populations, but Iran gets over twice as many cities as Türkiye. Iran also has all but two of its provinces and Türkiye has NOTHING under country subdivisions? The geographical regions of Turkey are definitely all vital at this level. The articles in question are:

We should have a bit more from Türkiye, but this is just a start. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:07, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Add Aegean Region

Population ~ 10.5m. Largest city is İzmir  4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:05, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:07, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:50, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Black Sea Region

Population ~ 7.7m. Largest city is Samsun  5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:05, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:07, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:50, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Central Anatolia Region

Population ~ 12.9m. Largest city is Ankara  4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:05, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:07, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:50, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Eastern Anatolia Region

Population ~ 6.5m. Largest city is Van, Turkey  5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:05, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:07, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:50, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Marmara Region

Population ~ 26.7m. Largest city is Istanbul  3. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:05, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:07, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:50, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Mediterranean Region, Turkey

Population ~ 10.6m. Largest city is Antalya  4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:05, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:07, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:50, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Southeastern Anatolia Region

Population ~ 8.6m. Largest city is Urfa  5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:05, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:07, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:50, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

General discussion

1. Not sure I am comfortable adding these as a group.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:25, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

   I will reformat my proposal. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:36, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Add Cappadocia  5 (not OP)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

We should list some of the historical regions as well. Cappadocia definitely, as its still relevant today and a popular tourist destination. Place under Central Anatolia Region.

Support

1. As nom.Makkool (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:45, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:27, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
4. J947 ‡ ^edits 22:54, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add East Thrace (not OP)

The part of Turkey that's in Europe. Place under Marmara Region.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 12:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Has a higher population than Belgium. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Euskadi Ta Askatasuna

Major separitist group that was active during many decades in the Basque Country, an armed conflict so big that it had France, Spain and the European Union on their back (see Basque conflict). In its begginings, it was created to oppose the dictatorship of Franco, but soon their started kidnapping, exploding and shoot many civilians and police men, the deathpool reached 829. Several attacks are notable, such as 1980 Markina attack, 1980 Ispaster attack, July 1979 Madrid bombings, Assassination of Juan María de Araluce Villar, among many others. The Blue Rider 18:52, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 18:52, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Prefer this at V5 over Bilbao at V4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 19:38, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
3. I'm surprised this wasn't already included. Aurangzebra (talk) 22:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Agree this is a surprising omission. J947 ‡ ^edits 22:10, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Languedoc and Midi-Pyrénées

All of the pre-2016 regions of France should have representation imo. These were the two regions that were merged into Occitania  5 in 2016. Languedoc in particular was kept at V4 for an extended amount of time during the cull. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:21, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:21, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 14:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:52, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add 180th meridian

Similar in importance to international date line and prime meridian. Interstellarity (talk) 21:33, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 21:33, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 15:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Sarasota, Florida

This Southwest Floridian city is a historically and especially demographically important city in Florida. The metro area in particular is projected to hit 1 million by the end of the decade. Unlike Greenville, however, its urban area population is actually significant. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:49, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:49, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. When I look at the cities that we've removed or almost removed, I don't think Sarasota has a chance. Compare that we removed Palm Springs. _pbp 03:10, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

   Resort towns are not necessarily vital, especially when they are part of agglomerations that are already listed. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 13:00, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

2. per above Makkool (talk) 14:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

Remove Paphos  5

Under 100,000 people and not a national capital. 4 cities for Cyprus is too many considering it has just over a million people 20:13, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 20:13, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 23:09, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 14:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. UNESCO World Heritage Site, European Capital of Culture, and some pretty decent historical importance. It even has a little Biblical importance! I would much rather choose Larnaca  5 as a removal for Cyprus, since it has much less going for it, only having a somewhat higher population and the international airport in comparison. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:03, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

Recent additions without discussion

I have recently reverted several edits adding entries without discussion by a certain user, mainly to history, which possibly got a lot closer to hitting/exceeding the quota solely based on their additions. I realized I had already reverted these at least twice before, which went seemingly unnoticed and I just had to leave a talk page telling them to stop. Aside from that, I'm not sure how other entries they added should be dealt with, especially as it seems one of them was 8888 Uprising  5 which had an active proposal for when it was added and it was closed seemingly without being noticed. Iostn (talk) 19:11, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

We should probably undo all of their changes that haven't been passed. It seems like we can keep the 8888 Uprising  5 since it passed regardless but everything else should be rolled back. I am going to assume that maybe they were operating in good faith and didn't realize changes required a discussion so hopefully there will be no more after your warning. I can roll some of them back later today. Aurangzebra (talk) 17:03, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

I am removing even more of these that haven't been removed yet. Hoben7599 Varoart2005 and Zanahary - you need to achieve consensus for additions, not just add them yourself undiscussed. starship.paint (RUN) 07:46, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Apologies @Starship.paint! I was under the impression that level 5 VAs could just be designated boldly. Looking again at the policies, I don’t know where I got that idea. I will initiate a discussion, thank you! ꧁Zanahary꧂ 19:08, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

@Zanahary: - previously it was okay to do so when the lists were far from full, but as we approached quotas then we stopped that practice already. No worries. starship.paint (RUN) 01:56, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Countries with too many or too few cities?

Based on number of VA5 cities per total URBAN population:

Underrepresented

Fewer than one city per 4 million

• China (5,767,810)
• Lebanon (5,321,908)
• Brazil (4,995,205)
• Guinea (4,474,929)
• Dominican Republic (4,318,085)
• Guatemala (4,236,821)
• Peru (4,125,303)
• Kuwait (4,052,584)

At least than one city per 4 million BUT
Fewer than one city per 3.25 million

• Venezuela (3,977,591)
• Ghana (3,955,994)
• Thailand (3,818,099)
• Ecuador (3,484,558)
• Uganda (3,291,379)
• Indonesia (3,281,747)
• Kenya (3,271,156)

No cities at all

City-states:

• Singapore (5,622,455)
• San Marino (32,273),
• Vatican City

Territories/possessions/state-like entities over 30,000

• Guam (154,425)
• U.S. Virgin Islands (100,402)
• Mayotte (98,596)
• Northern Mariana Islands (50,401)
• American Samoa (48,482)
• Aruba (45,493)
• Sint Maarten (39,537)
• Gibraltar (34,408)
• Turks & Caicos Islands (32,492)

_pbp 13:08, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

• @Purplebackpack89: = to compare, what is the number for USA? starship.paint (RUN) 15:26, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

  1,922,977 Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:10, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

  @OhnoitsvileplumeXD @Starship.paint about that, yes. The average is something like 2.1M-2.2M so the U.S. is about average _pbp 21:34, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

  But significantly below average among highly-populated countries. J947 ‡ ^edits 22:16, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

  Among countries with at least 100 million TOTAL (some of with have way less than 100 million urban), Japan and the Philippines have more entries per million urban population than the US does, Russia has about the same, while the other nine have fewer entries per million urban than the US does _pbp 01:19, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Overrepresented

One city and an urban population of < 1 million (dependencies in italics)

1. Abkhazia (122,089)
2. Andorra (68,085)
3. Antigua & Barbuda (24,837)
4. Bahamas (324,723)
5. Barbados (88,634)
6. Bermuda (61,666)
7. Bhutan (326,286)
8. Brunei (328,400)
9. Cape Verde (354,491)
10. Cayman Islands (60,765)
11. Comoros (230,724)
12. Curaçao (142,000)
13. Djibouti (733,135)
14. Dominica (51,848)
15. East Timor (388,213)
16. Equatorial Guinea (880,694)
17. Faroe Islands (20,875)
18. Fiji (505,103)
19. French Guiana (241,249)
20. French Polynesia (173,169)
21. Greenland (48,966)
22. Grenada (38,956)
23. Guinea-Bissau (788,013)
24. Guyana (205,699)
25. Iceland (311,861)
26. Kiribati (61,888)
27. Lesotho (621,478)
28. Liechtenstein (5,386)
29. Luxembourg (523,930)
30. Macau (612,167)
31. Maldives (170,247)
32. Malta (406,176)
33. Marshall Islands (40,861)
34. Martinique (360,842)
35. Mauritius (514,950)
36. Micronesia (23,821)
37. Monaco (38,499)
38. Montenegro (419,915)
39. Nauru (11,347)
40. New Caledonia (192,783)
41. Palau (17,181)
42. Réunion (347,970)
43. Saint Kitts & Nevis (16,885)
44. Saint Lucia (33,289)
45. Saint Vincent & the Grenadines (57,234)
46. Samoa (35,513)
47. Sao Tome & Principe (145,534)
48. Seychelles (53,427)
49. Solomon Islands (142,062)
50. Suriname (369,081)
51. Tonga (24,745)
52. Trinidad & Tobago (726,160)
53. Tuvalu (6,925)
54. Vanuatu (68,412)
55. Western Sahara (467,101)

Multiple cities and fewer than 400,000 per city

• Belize (83,849 per city, 2 cities)
• Cyprus (195,411 per city, 4 cities)
• Guadeloupe (224,988 per city, 2 cities)
• Papua New Guinea (355,740 per city, 3 cities)
• Sri Lanka (384,772 per city, 10 cities)
• Eswatini (159,829 per city, 2 cities)

Multiple cities and between 400,000 and 1,000,000 per city

• Afghanistan (883,729 per city, 10 cities)
• Albania (882,294 per city, 2 cities)
• Armenia (922,779 per city, 2 cities)
• Austria (846,529 per city, 6 cities)
• Botswana (520,560 per city, 3 cities)
• Burundi (684,068 per city, 2 cities)
• Cambodia (526,914 per city, 7 cities)
• Croatia (599,337 per city, 4 cities)
• Estonia (452,136 per city, 2 cities)
• Finland (939,935 per city, 5 cities)
• Gambia (624,801 per city, 2 cities)
• Ireland (995,627 per city, 3 cities)
• Israel (688,114 per city, 11 cities)
• Italy (909,536 per city, 46 cities)
• Jamaica (534,972 per city, 3 cities)
• Kazakhstan (794,228 per city, 13 cities)
• Laos (591,356 per city, 4 cities)
• Latvia (447,310 per city, 3 cities)
• Libya (720,128 per city, 7 cities)
• Lithuania (656,295 per city, 3 cities)
• Moldova (864,697 per city, 2 cities)
• Namibia (619,928 per city, 2 cities)
• Nepal (951,601 per city, 6 cities)
• Norway (719,893 per city, 6 cities)
• Palestine (916,222 per city, 4 cities)
• Turkmenistan (973,958 per city, 3 cities)

Add Jiaxing

One of four Tier 2 Chinese cities to not be V5. Located in Zhejiang  4. 45 interwikis. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
2. And support the other three Tier 2 cities as well. China is underrepresented relative to its population _pbp 23:50, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

   @Purplebackpack89: May I copy your support for the other three, which I have proposed below? Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:38, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

   Certainly _pbp 01:07, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Jinhua

Per my nomination above. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:33, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:33, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Adding User:Purplebackpack89 per his vote at Jiangxi at 23:50 Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:43, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Taizhou, Zhejiang

Per my nominations above. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:34, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:34, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Adding User:Purplebackpack89 per his vote at Jiangxi at 23:50 Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:43, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Jiujiang

Per my nominations above. Note that Jiangxi  5 only has Nanchang  4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:36, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:36, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Adding User:Purplebackpack89 per his vote at Jiangxi at 23:50 Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:44, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Tripolitania and Cyrenaica

If we have as many Libyan cities as we do, then we can most certainly make room for these. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:51, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:51, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 16:23, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Weimar

Surprising omission under Cities. Definitely the most important city in Thuringia. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 02:34, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 02:34, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Influential philosophically and politically, the birthplace of the Weimar Republic  5. The Blue Rider 00:43, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Add Jacobitism

Major political movement in Great Britain. Cause many a headache for the British government due to foreign support and Irish nationalist undertones.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:32, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 15:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Manitoulin Island

Physical Geography is under quota. This island in Lake Huron  4 is the largest lake island in the world, with a sizable amount of importance to the natives and a little importance to Canadian history. 38 interwikis.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:14, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Strange omission. Thanks for spotting it. J947 ‡ ^edits 01:07, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Support as a Michigander. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 02:11, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

Third batch of history removals

Remove History of Svalbard  5

Features some interesting stories about Arctic exploration, but home to only 2,500 people.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:01, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 20:32, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove American automobile industry in the 1950s  5

Another interesting article, archetypal of postwar industry in many ways, but too narrow in my opinion.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:01, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 20:32, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove History of Franconia

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Since we don’t list Franconia. Has some coverage from History of Bavaria  5. Just 3 interwikis.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:01, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Support swap with Franconia  5, which definitely should be listed. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 13:05, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Swap with Franconia _pbp 16:42, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
4. support swap. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
5. support swap with Franconia Makkool (talk) 20:30, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove History of Guernsey and History of Jersey

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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These already have some coverage from the History of the British Isles  5 article. Minor regions of the U.K.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:01, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
2. _pbp 03:50, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 20:32, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove 2011–2015 Myanmar political reforms  5

These reforms were rolled back devastatingly after the 2021 Myanmar coup d'état  5. I would put these reforms on the same level as the failed Sudanese transition to democracy (2019–2021), which we voted to remove recently. Low pageviews and interwikis suggest this period is not yet well-defined.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:01, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 20:32, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove Iran–United States relations  5

This provides a convenient summary of conflicts between nations but isn’t technically a “History” article. It is the only “country relations” entry we list.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:01, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 20:32, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove History of monorail  5

Minor article in the History of rail transport  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:01, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 20:32, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove Danish colonization of the Americas  5

I think this falls under interesting but not vital. Keep in mind we have Danish overseas colonies  5 and Danish Realm  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:01, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 20:32, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove Death of Azaria Chamberlain

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Since we voted to remove Killing of JonBenét Ramsey, I was wondering what you think of this one.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:01, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
2. _pbp 03:51, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 20:32, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Pax Britannica

Period of relative peace between the Great Powers. Important concept for International relations (1814–1919)  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:30, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Yes. The Blue Rider 00:45, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Indo-Pakistani wars

Though I would support listing the four major wars fought between 1947 and 1999 (we only have the Indo-Pakistani war of 1971  5), this is a convenient grouping for one of the longest-lasting conflicts of the modern era.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:30, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 15:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Jewish exodus from the Muslim world

Important concept relating to the Arab–Israeli conflict  4.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:30, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
2. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 19:13, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add German atrocities committed against Soviet prisoners of war

Not the snappiest title, but these were responsible for around 3 million deaths. From the article: “The deaths among Soviet prisoners of war were numerically exceeded only by the (civilian) Jews and has been called "one of the greatest crimes in military history".

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:30, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Historical region additions

Since we have cut back the number of regions quite a deal, we could add a few more historical regions.

Add Appenzell

As suggested by QuicoleJR above.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 19:31, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Was an independent country for some time, and was a Swiss canton for some time after that. It fought several wars and had an impact on the history of Switzerland for the two centuries it existed for. It ended up being split into two Swiss cantons. Rated High-Importance by WikiProject Switzerland. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:26, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Karelia  5

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Historical region in areas of modern day Finland and Russia. We only list the Russian side, Republic of Karelia  5.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 19:31, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Total population adds up to almost a million. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:23, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
3. 70 interwikis, rated Top-Importance by WikiProject Russia, WikiProject Finland, and WikiProject Geography. Those are the best stats I have seen for an addition proposal in a while! It also appears to be a vital area according to the article's lead. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:29, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
4. _pbp 14:05, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
5. Surprised we didn't have this already, good find. Aurangzebra (talk) 19:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. Would Ingria also be a reasonable addition? Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:16, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

1. Yeah, I didn't think of that. Added a proposal below, thanks! Makkool (talk) 21:36, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Livonia  5

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Historical region in areas of modern day Estonia and Latvia.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 19:31, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:23, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Seems to have a lot of historical importance. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:30, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 19:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Courland

Another historical region of Latvia. We could add more of them, but suggesting these two for now.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 19:31, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Latvia has a population of under two million, so two regions should be enough. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:23, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Ingria

Another historical region from European part of Russia

Support

1. As nom. Makkool Makkool (talk) 21:36, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:23, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Central Hungary

We list now Transdanubia  5, Northern Hungary  5 and Great Hungarian Plain  5. If we would list Central Hungary as well, that would complete all four main regions of Hungary.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 16:36, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 03:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Tyrol

We list the Austrian side Tyrol (federal state) and the Italian side South Tyrol  5, but not the whole historical region itself.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 10:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:10, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Politically and historical important region. The Blue Rider 00:46, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Metropolitan area additions

Add Randstad

Houses half of Netherlands's population.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 12:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. These concepts might encompass a lot of population but they are not vital per see. The Blue Rider 12:32, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

Add Gush Dan

The largest metropolitan area of Israel, consisting of Tel Aviv and surrounding communities

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 12:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Greater Tokyo Area

The largest metropolitan area in the world by population

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 12:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
2. λ NegativeMP1 20:17, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 03:07, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
5. Weak support. I am usually not a big fan of adding metro areas that are centered around some city we already list but, in this case, at least there are other major cities in the metro area (unlike NY metro area where no one has heard of the second-biggest city (Hempstead, New York) and it is 9 times smaller than New York City). Besides that, there is also the novelty of it being the largest metro area in the world. Aurangzebra (talk) 19:29, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add New York metropolitan area

The largest metropolitan area in the world by urban landmass, and the largest metro area of the US. I tried proposing this before, but I'm trying again as @OhnoitsvileplumeXD: expressed support for it above in another discussion.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 12:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Well known metro area. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 03:07, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Once again opposing because this does not provide any new information that isn't already covered by other articles (we already have New York City  3, Manhattan  5, Brooklyn  5, Queens  5, The Bronx  5, Staten Island  5, Long Island  5, Newark, New Jersey  5, Jersey City, New Jersey  5, Bridgeport, Connecticut  5 etc. etc.). The region's relevancy comes almost entirely from New York City so I believe that article is sufficient. Aurangzebra (talk) 18:56, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

Remove ALL or MOST history by country, subdivision and city

This is a bold proposal. Many if not most countries should have stand alone pages in Vital articles already. These stand alone pages will have links to their respective history pages. Many, if not most, of the articles in this section are therefore redundant. There are also many articles that are very American centric, and it would be impossible to expand the same treatment to other major countries (or countries in general) while keeping the section tame. For example, there are 41 articles on History of US States, and one article for each of the original 13 US colonies. As an example, Virginia is a level 5 article, Colony of Virginia is a level 5 article, and History of Virginia is a level 5 article. By removing most if not all of the "History by country, subdivision and city" we can remove this redundancy and free up several hundred articles.GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 14:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As NomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 14:08, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. These articles are useful summaries of many things that happened in a country's history but are not important enough to include. Additionally, countries themselves are primarily made of geography, so those were redundant, but the history of a country encompasses a wider range of activities and events. History is also going to be more important internationally than geography is. Saying that these are redundant because the country articles link to them is absurd. US-centric bias is something that is being dealt with in a more moderated way by selectively removing some of the state history articles that are less important, and is also not a good reason to nuke the whole section. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:28, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

   Also, some of them, such as History of the United States  4, are VA4 and thus cannot be removed in this discussion. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:30, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 16:29, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
3. I'd rather they were discussed on a case-by-case basis and potential replacements identified for the space opened up by their removal _pbp 20:35, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

• I agree again that we could cut some of them, but I would oppose removing them all or even most. You say that it would free up hundreds of article slots, but what would we even fill the free space with? I find we are having less and less obvious missing articles in History. If we want to free up space, I'd suggest all or most of the flags as better articles to cut. They're more unnecessary than these broad history articles of vital countries and regions. Makkool (talk) 14:28, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

I would agree that almost all or even all of the national flags can go. I'd keep the Union Jack since it appears in a lot of currently-used flags, but that's about it. We don't need the number of flags we currently have. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:08, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

I'd say the US stars and stripes, the French tricolour and possibly the Japanese flag are necessary to keep as well. I'd support maximum 10 to stay, the amount we now have is really excessive. I'll make a proposal some time in the future. Makkool (talk) 15:26, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

South Asian early modern history additions

Add Kingdom of Nagpur

One of the four rajas (member states) of the Maratha Confederacy  4, in addition to Gwalior State  5 and Baroda State  5. Fairly large at its peak.

Support

1. As nominator. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 14:48, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 15:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

Add Indore State

One of the four rajas (member states) of the Maratha Confederacy  4, in addition to Gwalior State  5 and Baroda State  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 14:48, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 15:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

Add Ahmadnagar Sultanate

Member of the Deccan sultanates  4, and one of the three major of them not already a vital article, in addition to the Sultanate of Bijapur  5 and the Sultanate of Golconda  5. Larger and more prosperous than many of the small states currently in the same category.

Support

1. As nominator. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 14:48, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 15:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

Swap out Qajar dynasty  5 and Safavid dynasty  4 for Qajar Iran and Safavid Iran

The articles Qajar dynasty  5 and Safavid dynasty  4 are vital articles despite being only the dynasties for the countries they ruled, the much larger pages Qajar Iran and Safavid Iran. The latter two articles, about the countries themselves, are obviously the "vital" and more important of the two; 1319 words (Qajar dynasty) vs 7585 words (Qajar Iran) and 1239 words (Safavid dynasty) vs 19185 words (Safavid Iran). I don't see how we managed to have such mismatch in VA-ness, but these should of course be swapped.

Support

1. As nominator. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 04:50, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I personally think the dynasties are more important than the states themselves (and some evidence to back this is up is the fact that both dynasties have more interwikis than their state counterparts). It's a shame that the dynasty pages are not great but that's the point of this whole VA5 project: to identify important pages that may have gaps in content and quality and fix them. Aurangzebra (talk) 19:32, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

• The Safavid swap would need to be proposed on the VA4 talk page instead of here, as it is a VA4 article. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:33, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Historical cities additions

Add Olympia, Greece  5

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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The location of the ancient Olympic games. Add to historical cities.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 13:23, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Iostn (talk) 08:12, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Why not. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 03:05, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Smyrna

An ancient Greek city in Anatolia, now Izmir, Türkiye.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 18:28, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 08:12, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 11:58, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

Add Lüshunkou, Dalian

Formerly the historical city of Port Arthur, now a part of larger city Dalian  4.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 18:28, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Iostn (talk) 08:12, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

Remove the following national flags

Previously, some of you expressed that our list had too many country flags (42) and suggested removing nearly all of them altogether. This proposal will reduce the list by a third, so while some of these may not be the most marginal, they probably don't make the cut by that standard.

• Flag of Algeria  5
• Flag of Tanzania  5
• Flag of the Democratic Republic of the Congo  5
• Flag of the Republic of China  5
• Flag of Israel  5
• Flag of Malaysia  5
• Flag of Myanmar  5
• Flag of Saudi Arabia  5
• Flag of the United Arab Emirates  5
• Flag of the Netherlands  5
• Flag of Ukraine  5
• Flag of Australia  5
• Flag of Colombia  5
• Flag of Argentina  5

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 16:09, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
2. They're flags. J947 ‡ ^edits 12:06, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 16:53, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
4. There are probably far more vital articles about individual countries than flag coverage. CMD (talk) 17:08, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
5. Support although we need to discuss what criteria, if any, make a flag vital _pbp 17:28, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
6. Support I think the list should be around 5, and this is a good start. We don't need every VA3 country's flag. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:06, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

   Besides the Stars and Stripes, the Union Jack and the French Tricolore, what else stays? I'd honestly say next after those is the USSR. _pbp 22:54, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

   Numerous flags could be represented by Triband (flag), instead of having individual listings. What other such convenient flag types are there?--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:28, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

   See Flag families, although the article should be taken with a pinch of OR salt. CMD (talk) 07:57, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

   Pan-African colours and Pan-Slavic colors could also be worth including. EDIT: Nordic cross flag and Pan-Arab colors definitely too. Makkool (talk) 18:04, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

   Maybe Japan because it has cultural connotations in both Japan and China, but other than that, we really only need these few. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:38, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Move Solidarity (Polish trade union)  5

I just noticed that Solidarity is listed in the history page, which is confusing to me, because it is an active trade union with hundreds of thousands of members, not a historical event (although I understand it was extremely important during the 1980s). I'm proposing it be moved to the individual trade unions list, which I think is a better fit. --Grnrchst (talk) 13:37, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --Grnrchst (talk) 13:37, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:45, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Weak oppose. Solidarity as a trade union is not VA5 in my opinion. I can't find current membership estimates but considering the trajectory, it most likely wouldn't even crack the top 100 largest trade unions in the world by active membership. All the trade unions we currently list are still massive and influential today. We could instead swap for the History of Solidarity article which, though it has only 6 interwikis, was a featured article. However, I'm fine with making Solidarity an exception we keep in History. Aurangzebra (talk) 21:33, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

Add Greater China

A historical-cultural region with ties to the Chinese people, including both People's Republic of China and Republic of China (Taiwan). It feels like an article we should list in Vital Articles: we have the space for it, and it's rated High-Importance in Wikiproject China. Also a decent number of language versions (32).

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 16:17, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Kolkhoz

Collective farming  4 is LV4 so we could have a subtopic for it. The kolkhoz was the collective farm on the Soviet Union. A vital topic for Eastern bloc history.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 17:17, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Split of Christianity and Judaism

A very significant historical process that gave rise to the Abrahamic complex of religions. Essential for the history of Christianity  3 and of Judaism  3.

Support

1. As nom. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 19:13, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:13, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Remove Sungai Ruan  5 and add Perlis

It's a village, not a state or a territory. It's not very noteworthy either. 2 interwikis. Perlis, however, is a state, and it's missing from the list. IDBLWK (talk) 05:27, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. IDBLWK (talk) 05:28, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 17:52, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Southwest Papua

It's the only Indonesian province that is not listed here. IDBLWK (talk) 05:52, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. IDBLWK (talk) 05:53, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 17:52, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss