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Archive 1 ← Archive 5 Archive 6 Archive 7

Remove some English monarches

I think we have every English monarch on here. I think we can get rid of some of them.

Remove Ælfweard of Wessex

PASSED
7-0 Aurangzebra (talk) 07:00, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

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Guy was only king for a month.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:30, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 06:28, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
  3. pbp 12:54, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
  4. Iostn (talk) 18:01, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
  5. Seems to have maybe been part of a succession crisis, but it was short-lived. He died before he could do anything. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:56, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
  6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
  7. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:37, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Remove Edmund Ironside  5

NO CONSENSUS
The Blue Rider 21:21, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

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Was only king for seven months.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:15, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. This one seems very important. He started a rebellion against his father, ultimately becoming king, and became a major figure in the war against the Vikings. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:11, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. per above Makkool (talk) 15:00, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
Discuss
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Remove Harold Godwinson  5

FAILED
Not removed 1-4. Makkool (talk) 17:23, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

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Only king for nine months.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:16, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. I think his involvement in the Battle of Hastings is enough to retain him. pbp 12:54, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. Strong oppose He represents the losing side of the Battle of Hastings  4 and the Norman Conquest  4, his reign marks the end of the Anglo-Saxon era, which is often considered the biggest turning point in English history, in terms of for example, Franco-Norman cultural influence, the rise of feudalism and the fact that line of heriditary succession of the British monarchy today can be traced back directly to the Norman Conquest. Iostn (talk) 18:01, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
  3. Per Iostn. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:57, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
  4. His success over Harald III alone is probably enough to make him vital, not to mention his involvement in Hastings. Idiosincrático (talk) 07:00, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
Discuss
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Remove Edgar Ætheling

PASSED
4-1 Aurangzebra (talk) 07:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

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Only king for two months.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:34, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. Really it's no months. Article states, "Elected King of England by the Witan in 1066 but never crowned." pbp 12:54, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
  3. You can only do so much in two months. The Blue Rider 10:53, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
  4. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:38, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. Not as vital as Harold II, but still important as a figure of English resistance to the Norman Conquest  4. Iostn (talk) 18:01, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
Discuss
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Move Edward V of England to Miscellaneous

FAILED
Not moved 1-0, but swapped with Princes in the Tower. Makkool (talk) 19:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

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Besides only reigning for only two months, he also in the same position as Caesarion and Alexander IV of Macedon, which is "not doing anything beyond being a potential threat (in this case to Richard III) once he's an adult". However, I do think the whole Princes in the Tower mystery is enough to keep him on here. Therefore, I am instead requesting to move him to the Miscellaneous page, preferably under victims (although since we have no idea what actually happened to him, I'm fine putting him under socialites).

Move
  1. Under victims. SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:01, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
Remove
  1. @SailorGardevoir: This guy is really only notable for the Princes in the Tower  5 mystery along with his brother, but that mystery is very important. Therefore, I propose we swap Edward V with Princes in the Tower. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:31, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
    I’m fine with a swap. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:14, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. Support swap. Victims would be a good place for Princes in the Tower as well. Makkool (talk) 15:00, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. Support swap. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Remove Caesarion and Alexander IV of Macedon

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 02:18, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

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I don't have any problems have kid rulers here, but other than being the heirs of Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great (and therefore potential threats to Augustus and the Diadochi), I'm not sure they even did anything.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:23, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
  3. Makkool (talk) 15:05, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

FWIW, Caesarion was the successor to Cleopatra in Egypt, not to Julius Caesar in Rome pbp 16:10, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

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Imbalance in martial arts?

The Blue Rider 21:23, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

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There are currently 15 articles on mixed martial arts, a fairly recent phenomenon. By contrast, there's just one practitioner of taekwondo, four of judo and five of karate, even though taekwondo and judo are in the Olympics and MMA is not. Seems off to me pbp 21:21, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

I think it sort of makes sense. Though more recent, it is now a global cultural phenomenon and MMA celebs have more impact and presence on our society. I don't even follow MMA and I can name at least 5 fighters. Gun to my head, I couldn't name a single judoka for example. By your logic, we should be listing more wrestlers or archers or even pentathletes (all events at the Olympics as well) since these are all ancient sports. But clearly that wouldn't make sense. Aurangzebra (talk) 20:25, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
I don't exactly watch MMA regularly. I've caught some fight highlights very occasionally. I recognize the names of 12/15 MMA fighters on the list. I recognize the names of 1/4 judokas, 0/5 karate/kickboxing, 0/1 taekwondo, 0/1 aikido, 0/1 muay thai, 0/1 capoeira, 1/5 sumo wrestlers, and 1/9 wrestlers. Even boxing I recognize only 9/43. starship.paint (RUN) 07:14, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
User:Purplebackpack89, You have to keep in mind that a lot of famous martial artistst are listed in other categories (e.g. Chuck Norris, Steven Seagal, Jackie Chan and Jet Li). It is not clear to me that MMA fighters really have more slots than traditional discipline specialists.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:33, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
They do if you think about the people who are listed for participating in and winning competitions rather than making movies pbp 14:02, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
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Remove Callicrates and Ictinus

PASSED
Removed 4-1. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 02:29, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

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I don't like the argument of limiting vital status on an article because we already made another article vital, especially when the other article is a level 4 or higher, but for the architects of the Parthenon  5… yeah just having the temple is enough. More importantly their articles are pretty bare, even in different languages.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:01, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 16:43, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:49, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
  4. Support Callicrates per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:43, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. Oppose Ictinus. The article points to a few other large projects he was involved with, as well as cultural influence in the form of a contemporary play and a later painting. Just because it is a stub does not mean it is not vital. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:43, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
    @SailorGardevoir, Starship.paint, and Makkool: Pinging so that you can consider my argument for keeping Ictinus. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:44, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
    @QuicoleJR: - not convinced. In 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica wrote that we know little about him. In 2024 quite the same, really. starship.paint (RUN) 14:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
    I'm sorry, but this project is ostensibly about bringing certain articles to featured status. If there are no signs that an article is ever going to escape stub-status, then there's no reason for it to be here. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:30, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
Discuss
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Remove Tanburi Büyük Osman Bey

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 02:31, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

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This guy has no article on Turkish Wikipedia. In fact, this guy doesn't have an article on ANY Wikipedia besides ours. Which is a shame, because his article does suggests that he is somewhat vital.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:29, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 16:43, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
  3. If you think the article suggests that he is vital, then don't vote to remove him. Article quality is not the deciding factor. That said, I do not see a good enough claim to vitality to keep him on the list, and the type of music he makes is not vital. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:35, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Add Nicholas Miklouho-Maclay

PASSED
Added 4-0 Idiosincrático (talk) 23:48, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

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I was surprised to learn that Nicholas Miklouho-Maclay's biography wasn't already included as a vital article. This 19th century Russian-born academic studied many fields and became a name in biological research as early as age 23; however, he later became known more as an explorer and anthropologist. Miklouho-Maclay's exploration and study of the North-Eastern New Guinea Coast (now the "Maclay Coast") was among the first and most famous of the region. The "man from the moon" was among the first Europeans to contact the Papuan people and learn several local languages; he developed trust and became accustomed to unseen rituals and culture. His work created a foundation for contemporary Oceanic anthropology which, on the island of New Guinea, is still not completely researched. His Wikipedia article doesn't quite do justice to his work which expands far beyond the scope of his famous stay in New Guinea; his work is highly regarded in the Australian scholarly community and he has several commemorative shrines across the region. I'd like think this article fits in the miscellaneous sub-page under 'explorers', but I'm open to other suggestions. Idiosincrático (talk) 00:40, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. As nominator. Idiosincrático (talk) 00:40, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. As an anthropology major I am ashamed I had never heard of him, but he seems very important. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 05:23, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:16, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Move the following people to socialites

WITHDRAWN
Withdrawn by the nominator in 27 June. Makkool (talk) 19:46, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

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I'm seeing a lot of people who are in the politicians and leaders page who were "merely" the spouses/lovers of actual politicians/leaders. Now, some of them did in fact had political power/clout despite not being in an actual position (Theodora, Jiang Qing, Eleanor Roosevelt, etc.). Others… not so much. Since we have the socialites section in miscellaneous, I think the following figures should be moved there:

  1. Agnès Sorel (already moved)
  2. Pocahontas
  3. Martha Washington
  4. Mumtaz Mahal
  5. Marie Antoinette
  6. Anne Boleyn
  7. Catherine of Aragon
  8. Sophia of Hanover
  9. Dolley Madison
  10. Joséphine de Beauharnais
  11. Marie Louise, Duchess of Parma
  12. Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha
  13. Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother
  14. Alexandra Feodorovna (Alix of Hesse)
  15. Menen Asfaw
  16. Ruth Williams Khama
  17. Michelle Obama
  18. Kim Jong-nam
  19. Queen Rania of Jordan
  20. Asma al-Assad
  21. Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh
Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:38, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. First ladies of countries and royals should remain in leaders. Makkool (talk) 17:08, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. Per Makkool. Mistresses of French monarchs makes sense but First Ladies, consorts and princes less so. Also not all First Ladies on the VA5 list are slated for move. Finally, what is the definition of socialite here? It's being used to apply to people who were alive before the term was commonly used pbp 05:46, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
    That's a good question. I'm largely basing it off the vibes I get looking at that section, which other than Sid Vicious's girlfriend who I just moved to Other I feel like everyone fits. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:22, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
    I'm still unclear how you're defining socialites, especially for people from before the Victorian or Edwardian eras when socialite wasn't even a word. I suppose Pocahontas could qualify for getting promenaded around London, but what about her life in Virginia? pbp 00:17, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
    My definition of socialite is “rich person”. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:41, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
    I think there's more going on than just Wealth. There are rich people who are businessmen, leaders, etc. pbp 12:10, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
Discuss

@User:Makkool and @User:Purplebackpack89: I think I'm just going to withdraw this. I have actually long since came around to the idea that only the mistresses/favorites should be moved to the socialites section. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:13, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Move Françoise d'Aubigné, Marquise de Maintenon and Madame de Pompadour to socialites

Primarily notable for being court mistresses pbp 13:29, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 13:29, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. I didn't nominate them because I felt like they actually had an influence on their lovers' policies, but since they weren't even queen consorts, sure. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:36, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

Move George Villiers, 1st Duke of Buckingham to socialites

Related to the above, here's the favorite/possible lover of King James. Again, didn't nominate him on the belief he had political clout, but if we're going to place the favorites/lovers in the socialites section, it should probably include him.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:36, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss

Move Grigory Potemkin to socialites

Only nominating him for consistency since he was Catherine's lover. As I mentioned, I only wanted to move the people who I felt were apolitical, which is certainly not the case for this guy.

Support
Oppose
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:36, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
Discuss

Move Yang Guifei to leaders

Since there appears to be a consensus that monarch consorts should be listed under leaders, she should probably be move to that page.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:36, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Remove Jenna Marbles and Cara Cunningham

PASSED
Cunningham removed 7-0, Marbles 6-1. Makkool (talk) 15:59, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

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I would argue the majority of internet personalities at V5 are worthy of vitality. These two are not in that majority, and I fail to see how either are worthy of V5 (outside of maybe diversity, but they're not even the most successful female content creators). Plenty of content creators have twenty million followers and billions of views at this point (and they weren't some of the first), and I don't feel like any of their achievements are particularly noteworthy. Maybe we could do a swap if there's any objection to an outright removal?

Support
  1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 01:32, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. pbp 14:59, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:00, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. Hardly ever heard of the latter nomination. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 02:24, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
  6. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  7. Support removing Cara Cunningham as she is only highly well-known for the "Leave Britney Alone" video Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. Oppose removing Marbles since I am aware she was one of the biggest YouTubers at one point, the article does need significant work however. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Neutral
Discuss
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Host removals

American television hosts is out of control. There are three at VA4 and 94 at VA5. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Remove Bob Eubanks

PASSED
Removed 6-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Look, I loved his coverage of the Rose Parade and all, but we recently removed Gene Rayburn and I don't see how Eubanks stays if Rayburn goes. Only three interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  6. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Chris Harrison

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Only eight interwikis pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Chris Harrison

Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Roy Clark

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 08:55, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

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I have a hard time believing he's one of the 50-60 most important television hosts pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 04:22, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Mike Douglas

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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I have a hard time believing he's one of the 50-60 most important television hosts. Only 13 interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Morton Downey Jr.

PASSED
Removed 6-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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I have a hard time believing he's one of the 50-60 most important television hosts. Only six interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. I was going to argue against removing him since his page suggests he was a major pioneer for trash TV, but he actually only has 6 interwikis. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  6. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Joe Franklin

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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While he may have been one of the first talk show hosts, he only has three interwikis pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Jeff Foxworthy

FAILED
Not removed 3-2. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Another Rayburn-level host. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Support removal. I agree that he is more important as a comedian than a game show host, but I would rather list Larry the Cable Guy than him to represent blue collar comedy. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. Eh, he has 41 interwikis and he's considered high-importance on the Comedy WikiProject. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Per above Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Discussion
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Remove Nicole Richie

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Mostly notable as the sidekick to Paris Hilton pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Craig Kilborn

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Only seven interwikis. Overshadowed by fellas like Conan, Letterman and John Stewart. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Julie Chen Moonves

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Only six interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Richard Dawson

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Another Rayburn-level host. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom.starship.paint ~ starship.paint (RUN) 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Jinx Falkenburg

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Only two interwikis. While she was one of the first talk show hosts, she's overshadowed by later but more famous hosts pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Elizabeth Hasselback

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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13 interwikis, which is more than some but still not a great deal. Mostly known as being part of an ensemble. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Dennis James

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Maybe slightly more notable than Rayburn but in his neighborhood. Only six interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Ricki Lake

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Just don't feel she's VA5

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Art Linkletter

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Only eight interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Mario Lopez

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Just don't feel he's VA5 pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Allen Ludden

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Only eight interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom.starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Phil McGraw

PASSED
Removed 4-2. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Oprah spinoff. She's vital but IDK if he is pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. I do think he has a large impact on the way we view mental health (albeit a negative one). SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. per above Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Discussion
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Remove Mehmet Oz

PASSED
Removed 4-2. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Oprah spinoff. She's vital but IDK if he is pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. I do think he has a large impact on the way we view health (albeit a negative one). SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. per above Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Discussion
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Remove Ed McMahon

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Johnny Carson sidekick. Johnny's vital but IDK if Ed is. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Jack Paar

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Only a dozen interwikis. The Tonight Show is an influential program but we have Carson, Leno, Conan and Steve Allen already. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Drew Pinsky

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Only eight interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Maury Povich

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Another Rayburn-level host. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Jeff Probst

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Another Rayburn-level host. Only 12 interwikis. I get that Survivor was a big deal for awhile but... pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Sally Jessy Raphael

PASSED
Removed 6-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Only six interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  6. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Cristina Saralegui

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Only nine interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Buffalo Bob Smith

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Only five interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. Fine with removing him, but Howdy Doody only has four interwikis? SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Tom Snyder

PASSED
Removed 6-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Only four interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  6. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove David Susskind

PASSED
Removed 6-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Only four interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
  6. Iostn (talk) 11:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove John Walsh (television host)

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Only seven interwikis. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Lawrence Welk

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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My family comes from North Dakota and as such liked his show. But apparently many people don't...only a dozen interwikis.

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Montel Williams

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Another Rayburn-level host. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Wendy Williams

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Another Rayburn-level host. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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Remove Chuck Woolery

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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Only six interwikis. Another Rayburn-level host...if that. Overshadowed by his successor Pat Sajak. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom. starship.paint 02:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
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General discussion

I feel like an area where a mass removal proposal like this should happen next is popular musicians. We have 860 of them at V5 compared to 60 at V4. Plus the "Artists, musicians, and composers" section is nearly 100 over quota. I feel like the most we should have at V5 is around 600... λ NegativeMP1 19:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Add Jeanine Basinger

WITHDRAWN
"Belived the hype" in the article, and overestimated her vitality. I'll propose some more known film scholars later. Makkool (talk) 11:30, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Her article says that she "has been described as 'one of the most important film scholars alive today.'" and that "She was a pioneer of taking Hollywood film seriously as a subject of academic study".

Support
  1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 17:28, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. One single interwiki usually isn't a great sign. Kevinishere15 (talk) 18:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Discuss
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Dorothy Kamenshek, Sophie Kurys, and Jackie Mitchell

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 02:25, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

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I hate to advocate against gender parity but for the case of baseball, it just doesn't make sense. Women generally don't play baseball (we list 2 women in the Softball section) and there hasn't been a professional women's baseball league since 1997 (the Ladies League Baseball league which folded after one year due to low fan turnout). The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League  5, which both Kurys and Kamenshek were a part of, makes sense at VA5 because it was probably the first professional women's sports league and it is an element of the (American) cultural zeitgeist through the movie A League of Their Own. However, I feel like this is sufficient and their best players don't need to be VA5 as well (both Kurys and Kamenshek have 1 interwiki each). Jackie Mitchell is an even more egregious inclusion. She was signed to a minor league team as a publicity stunt, played in one game where she struck out Lou Gehrig and Babe Ruth, was cut from the team a few days later, and never played in the MLB system ever after that. She is effectively a novelty (albeit a very impressive one) and should not be classified as VA5.

Support
  1. as nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:52, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:40, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:16, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss
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Add Donna Haraway

PASSED
Added 4-0. Makkool (talk) 18:36, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

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One of the most important feminist scholars of recent decades

Support
  1. As nom Iostn (talk) 21:32, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 19:53, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
  3. J947 ‡ edits 05:40, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Add John Kricfalusi

FAILED
Not added 3-2. Makkool (talk) 18:36, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

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Extremely influential yet controversial animator. He is known primarily creating the cartoon The Ren & Stimpy Show  5, which is extremely influential to animation. He is also known for his controversies around the show. He's often known as trying to be a "perfectionist" on producing episodes for Ren and Stimpy and pushing the limit on television animation with violence and innuendos. (His article doesn't go deep on it, but read Stimpy's Invention's production section for more info) Many animators credit him as a influence so I think he's vital to be here including with the show

Add John K.
  1. 49p (talk) 22:43, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:51, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose John K.
  1. I'd list Richard Williams (animator) before him, as a more influential example. Makkool (talk) 12:13, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. The subpage where animators go is overquota (although maybe subpage quotas should be abolished too like section quotas were) and I'd rather re-add Disney's Nine Old Men (which was removed without discussion to fit the section quota).--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 15:40, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Discuss
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Remove James T. Farrell

Last comment 17 days ago. Removed 4-0. QuicoleJR (talk) 11:34, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

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He is only known for one book series, which had only minor cultural influences and TV/film adaptations that don't even have articles.

Support
  1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:15, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 15:34, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss
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Remove Bernardo De Pace

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 19:28, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

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I have been nominated some articles largely based on being stubs, so let me nominate an article that's actually decent. I'm not really a fan of using the number as a way to determine an article's vitality (I've has come across some articles with single digit interwikis that I feel should have more), but he only has two interwikis, and rateyourmusic does not have a page for him.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:56, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
  3. Makkool (talk) 08:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
  4. J947 ‡ edits 05:38, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Remove XXXTentacion

PASSED
Removed 5-3. Makkool (talk) 19:28, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

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Definitely popular but I don't think he's vital enough to be included in the hip-hop section. You could say he popularized the emo rap and soundcloud rap scene but I think that's way too specific to be vital. Juice WRLD or Lil Peep are similar yet we do not include them. Mid importance on Hip-hop and alt music.

Support
  1. 49p (talk) 05:22, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 08:00, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
  3. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 10:21, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom. Makkool (talk) 11:04, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
  5. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:21, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. I think mumble rap is biggish enough to warrant having someone representing the scene. SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:23, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
  2. Oppose. Even though it may not have cross-generational appeal, Soundcloud rap is a significant enough global phenomenon among the younger generations that its most important artist probably deserves a spot here. It even says on his Wikipedia article that, according to a YouGov poll conducted in 2023, a majority of Americans have heard of him. He is also credited with being inspirations for other clear-cut VA5-level rappers Kendrick Lamar  5 and Kanye West  5 and even mainstream pop artist Billie Eilish  5. He is also in the top 20 for all-time artists in digital single sales. That is very impressive for someone who only makes music in a genre that is too specific to be vital. Aurangzebra (talk) 00:10, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
  3. Per Aurangzebra Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:01, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
Comment
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Remove Gulshan Kumar  5

FAILED
Not removed 3-2. Makkool (talk) 19:28, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

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Known for creating T-Series (company), which isn't even vital (we don't list any record label as vital AFAIK). Not much argument is made in the article to prove he's vital compared to what we have in his section. We add record label owners like Rick Rubin  5 because their actions within the label helped popularize a genre or influenced music heavily. I don't see this in Kumar's article.

Support
  1. 49p (talk) 05:39, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
  2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 08:00, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
  3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 11:04, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. Founder of the largest record label in the world's most populous country. And FYI, EMI  5 is vital.
  2. Per above. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:24, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Discuss
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Remove Milton Sills

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 13:49, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

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Suggested for removal in the Jared Leto discussion. We have too many actors, and this one does not seem vital enough to make the list.

Support
  1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:11, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Glad to see this clean up happen. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 16:07, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. Iostn (talk) 09:55, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. Makkool (talk) 18:16, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss
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Remove Harry Page Woodward

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 19:28, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

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I don't even get how he got on here. Even ignoring that he only has three paragraphs and two interwikis, there's nothing that indicates any vitality whatsoever.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:04, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 06:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. Would not even make a hypothetical VA6. Should not be listed. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:23, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Remove Vytautas Kernagis

PASSED
Removed 5-0. Makkool (talk) 19:28, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

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He was not one of the world musicians I wanted to remove, but yeah his page is a stub. I took a look at his Lithuanian page and it's not much longer.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:22, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 06:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. Doesn't seem to have any noteworthy impact. λ NegativeMP1 06:15, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
  5. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Remove Billie Eilish  5

FAILED
Not removed 4-3. Makkool (talk) 19:28, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

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When it comes to vitality, I think a music artist like this should only be listed if they have left a truly significant long term impact to their field of work, rather than being a popularity contest. And at present, Billie, an artist with only nine years of activity, is yet to leave any long term impact, and her article doesn't even have a legacy/cultural impact section. Her accolades, popularity, and acclaim are irrelevant if they hold no weight. While she certainly has potential, this listing feels like WP:RECENTISM, and possibly Americentrism. We're also over quota in this section. I say we remove her (and many other yet-to-be-nominated artists with dubious legacies) now, and reassess at a later point.

Support
  1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 23:09, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Makkool (talk) 06:01, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 16:48, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]
  4. Support per nominator. I would like to see a formal rule put into place in terms of number of years active and impact though, and we can drop all the people who aren't within that span to be consistent.GeogSage (⚔Chat?⚔) 16:52, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
    Likely not something that'd be determined during this discussion, but my personal vote for a rule like that would be twenty years, save for a few special cases like Taylor Swift  4. λ NegativeMP1 23:06, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. This is a similar case to the Weeknd (which has had a lot of opposition to his removal), where I think a lot of voting patterns have become overtly counter-recentist which is only a hindrance in covering influential recent phenomena. Billie Eilish has been the most viewed page on a person born since 2000 continuously since August 2019, and by a large margin, which does not indicate someone who is likely to disappear any time soon. Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Per Iost Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:27, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. Per Iostn. Also it feels like anytime she releases something, she gets an award. SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:23, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
Neutral
Discuss
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Remove The Weeknd  5

FAILED
Not removed 3-3. Makkool (talk) 19:28, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

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With a career only spanning 15 years and an article with no impact or legacy section to be seen, this listing appears to be RECENTISM. The only semi-fair justification for listing him would be due to the success of "Blinding Lights", but that is only one song. One song is not enough to justify considering him as one of the few hundred most important modern era artists. Same as with other remove proposals, we can always revisit if he leaves a worthy impact or legacy on the music industry.

Support
  1. Makkool (talk) 12:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. An obscure figure to much of the world, he is primarily known and listened to by Western audiences. Instead, we should have more representation from the Global South. He is essentially a moderately popular artist whose fame will likely fade in a few years. The Blue Rider 16:23, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
    Do you actually believe this? Or are you just saying this because Tony wants to keep the Weeknd here while pbp finds the rationale of removing him questionable? SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:44, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
    I think you are taking such accusations out of a magic hat. I don't follow your reasoning; what does my support have to do with Tony or pbp?! The Blue Rider 18:14, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
    There is no shortage of figures already listed under "Non-English popular music". Iostn (talk)
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. OK, some of you have some very weird definition on what qualifies as recent. Only 15 years? That's more than enough time to judge someone on whether they're vital or not. And considering he's spent most of that 15 years as being on of the biggest pop stars on Earth, yes I would say he's vital. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
    OP, I'm sorry to come across as harsh regarding your recent proposals. I just don't like how people are acting like we need a full generation to judge the vitality of something. The Peter Thiel proposal got rejected (much too soon personally, since it was a 3-1 decision in favor of adding him, and was closed only a month after the last comment) because someone felt he was too recent, even though he's been a major figure since 1998. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
    I feel like that "generation" (which I specifically elsewhere gave room for special exceptions, if they truly proved themselves) is actually essential to determine whether or not something is vital. Especially when we're drastically overquota in this section. I guess it could be lower than 15 years, but there needs to be some sort of general cutoff or criteria if we plan on making this section reasonable. And I'm uncertain if The Weeknd or several other artists would meet whatever that criteria could be, even if it's not mine. λ NegativeMP1 16:06, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
    The Beatles' first hit was in 1962 and they broke up in 1970. Should we remove THEM because they only lasted eight years? Career length is the wrong metric for musicians. They should either be measured by:
    1. Popularity (#1 hits, gold records, ticket sales at concerts...), or
    2. Acclaim (winning a lifetime achievement award or several competitive awards)
    pbp 15:46, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
    Comparing the most influential band of all time to a singer we can't assess the industry impact of yet outside of popularity is certainly an interesting approach. In no world would I ever call for the removal of bands like that, or even shorter lasting ones like Nirvana (band)  5. It should have been obvious that I meant fifteen years after the career started, even if the act ended. And no, legacy and maybe acclaim (if a legacy can back it up) should almost ALWAYS come over popularity, unless that popularity is long lasting. λ NegativeMP1 03:21, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. 'Strong Oppose Generational.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. Iostn (talk) 00:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
Neutral
Discussion

I was going to say something similar: I'm not sure whether or not the Weeknd belongs on this list, but the OP's rationale is unconvincing. Most vital bios, musician or otherwise's, period of vitality is less than 15 years. pbp 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Minor Threat

FAILED
Not removed 2-3. Makkool (talk) 10:37, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

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Band was only active for three years and didn't have any significant chart-toppers during that time. pbp 13:06, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 13:06, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
  2. A very minor band (no pun intended) that isn't relevant to the history/concept of modern music. λ NegativeMP1 18:36, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
  1. Very influential band to hardcore punk and the larger punk subculture. Makkool (talk) 20:12, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
  2. Pretty much one the biggest faces of hardcore punk. Punk bands, especially hardcore punk bands, are rarely gonna hit chart-toppers. They're usually boom and bust bands, especially in the 80s. 49p (talk) 05:48, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
  3. "Didn't have any significant chart-toppers?" Some musicians might be vital based on chart success, but when it comes to genres like hardcore punk that's a horrible way to judge the importance of someone. Hardcore punks don't just rarely chart, they go out their way to make sure they don't break in into the mainstream. SailorGardevoir (talk) 04:04, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
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Western writer removal proposals

PASSED
All removed 7-0, Dixon swapped with Hardy Boys. Makkool (talk) 10:37, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

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Prose writers > Modern > US and Canada

Support
  1. As nom. B3251(talk) 21:32, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
  2. Support pbp 15:41, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
  3. Swap with The Hardy Boys for "Dixon", support removal him otherwise and for everyone else. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:50, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
  4. Support all four, as well as the swap with Hardy Boys Makkool (talk) 21:53, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
  5. Support swap between Dixon and The Hardy Boys (we list Nancy Drew  5 so we should also list The Hardy Boys). Support everything else. Aurangzebra (talk) 22:59, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
  6. Support removals per nom, add Hardy Boys. starship.paint (RUN) 04:22, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
  7. Support swapping Dixon for The Hardy Boys because that is basically all the pen name is known for and the book series is more vital than the pen name, support the rest because I read their articles and they do not seem popular or influential enough. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Remove MacKinlay Kantor

PASSED
Removed 4-0. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 02:26, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

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Not every Pulitzer Prize winner is vital, and this guy does not have much else going for him. Most of his books don't have articles, and there is no indication of lasting influence.

Support
  1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:33, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
  2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
  3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:16, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss
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Add either Thomas A. Dorsey, The Dixie Hummingbirds, or Blind Willie Johnson

PASSED
Dorsey and Johnson added 4-0. Makkool (talk) 17:33, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

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I think we can squeeze one more gospel act on here, but unfortunately I’m not sure which of these three I want to add.

My first option was Thomas A Dorsey. I have frequently heard of him referred to as the Father of Gospel Music. Our article claims that he’s written 3,000 songs, including “Peace in the Valley” and “Take My Hand, Precious Lord”, the latter being the favorite song of Martin Luther King Jr.  4. Note however that he is rated low-importance on the WikiProject Christian music. (Although he’s also conversely rated as Top-importance on the WikiProject African diaspora.)

My next option is The Dixie Hummingbirds. Rated high-importance on the WikiProject Christian music, they are probably the most well-known jubilee quartet. They have inspired Jackie Wilson  5 and James Brown  4, backed Paul Simon  5 in his song “Loves Me Like a Rock”, and their rendition of Amazing Grace  5 is in the Grammy Hall of Fame.

My third option is Blind Willie Johnson. So, he’s a bit of a curveball; I know to a lot of people, Johnson is a blues musician first and foremost. I’m advocating him because unlike his fellow Texan Blind Lemon Jefferson, all of Johnson’s records had a religious bent to them. His songs include “In My Time of Dying”, “It’s Nobody’s Fault but Mine”, “John the Revelator”, and the one that went to outer space on the Voyager “Dark Was the Night, Cold Was the Ground”.

Support Thomas A. Dorsey
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:18, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
  2. Iostn (talk) 21:06, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 12:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom.Makkool (talk) 09:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
Support The Dixie Hummingbirds
Support Blind Willie Johnson (please indicate if you want to put him in the R&B section)
  1. Probably under R&B as he does seems to be more frequently described as such Iostn (talk) 21:06, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
  2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 05:30, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
  3. Interstellarity (talk) 12:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom.Makkool (talk) 09:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Add The Specials

PASSED
Added 4-0. Makkool (talk) 17:33, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

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Leading drivers of second-wave ska. Their label 2 Tone Records is the namesake of the Two-tone music genre.

Support
  1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:53, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. 49p (talk) 05:25, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
  4. per nom.Makkool (talk) 09:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Add Yigal Amir

PASSED
Added 4-0. Makkool (talk) 17:33, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

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Assassinated Yitzhak Rabin  5, who had signed the Oslo Accords in an attempt to end the Israel-Palestine conflict, and is arguably responsible for derailing the peace process and preventing a two-state solution as a result.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 00:29, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
  2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:41, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:37, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Swap C. R. Swart for D. F. Malan

PASSED
Added 4-0. Makkool (talk) 17:33, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

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C.R. Swart was the first State President of South Africa after South Africa became a Republic - which was at the time, only a ceremonial position, as the actual head of government was the Prime Minister, which is highlighted by him also being the last Governor-General (represenative to the British crown), also a ceremonial position. D. F. Malan, on the other hand, is responsible for being the first prime minister to implement Apartheid  4 (under that name, as opposed to the older forms of segregation present in South Africa) and also marked the start of over 40 years of continuous National Party rule. The only caveat is that he is less well-known for his role in constructing apartheid than his successor, Hendrik Verwoerd  5.

Support
  1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 18:26, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. per nom EleniXDD※Talk 05:37, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:39, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
  4. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Military personnel alterations

Move Julius Maada Bio  5 to politicians and leaders

PASSED
Moved 4-0 Makkool (talk) 20:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

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Briefly led a transitional military government in 1996, before returning to (electoral) politics and becoming elected president in 2018. Definitely only really seems notable as a politician.

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:18, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
  3. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
  4. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Remove Sebhat Ephrem

PASSED
Removed 5-0 Makkool (talk) 20:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

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If he was vital, then he should be under politicians. But even so, there's very little here to assert vitality.

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 08:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:40, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
  4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
  5. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Remove Fritz Loots

PASSED
Removed 5-0 Makkool (talk) 20:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

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Presumably included for founding the South African Special Forces - which isn't a VA. There's nothing else here that indicates vitality.

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 08:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
  4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
  5. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Move Samora Machel  5 to politicians and leader

PASSED
Moved 5-0 Makkool (talk) 20:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

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This entry was the original reason I made these proposals - the founding president of Mozambique, who served for over ten years, is listed here for his involvement in the Mozambican War of Independence  5. It seems fairly obvious he is much more well-known as a national "founding father" than a soldier or general.

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 08:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
  4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
  5. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Move Joseph Saidu Momoh  5 to politicians and leaders

PASSED
Moved 4-0 Makkool (talk) 20:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

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President of Sierra Leone for six and a half years.

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 08:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:42, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
  4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Move Valentine Strasser  5 to politicians and leaders

PASSED
Moved 4-0 Makkool (talk) 20:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

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Head of state of Sierra Leone for four years.

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 08:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:42, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
  4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Move Pedro Eugenio Aramburu  5 to politicians and leaders

PASSED
Added 4-0. Makkool (talk) 17:33, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

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De facto president of Argentina for 2.5 years, and only really known for that.

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:19, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
  3. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
  4. Makkool (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Move Ayub Khan (Emir of Afghanistan)  5 to politicians and leaders

PASSED
Added 4-0. Makkool (talk) 17:33, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

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Emir of Afghanistan, not much else to say. He is well-known for leading Afghanistan's troops during the Second Anglo-Afghan War at the same time, but I don't think that supersedes him being Emir.

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:19, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
  3. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
  4. Makkool (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Move Prabowo Subianto  5 to politicians and leaders

PASSED
Moved 4-0 Makkool (talk) 20:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Has been one of Indonesia's most prominent politicians since the late 2000s, and is currently president-elect.

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 08:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:42, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
  4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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Add Philippe Leclerc de Hauteclocque  5

PASSED
Added 4-0 Makkool (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

One of the most important military leaders of the French resistance

Support
  1. Nom. Iostn (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:20, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
  3. Per nominator. We should add the French Resistance as well Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
  4. Makkool (talk) 20:20, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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General comment

These proposals are testament to what I've been saying for awhile: it's silly to have politicians, military, activists and jurists in four different pots. The lines between the four are just too blurred. pbp

Addtional removals proposed by PBP89

PASSED
All removed 4-0. Makkool (talk) 17:33, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Sam Bockarie and Issa Sesay

Only five interwikis for Bockarie and only four for Sesay. We have five other VA5 articles to represent the coups and unrest in Sierra Leone pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. Makkool (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion

Remove Jan Breytenbach

Relatively minor/obscure figure in South African special forces who happened to write a book. Only six interwikis pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. Makkool (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion

Remove James Kabarebe

Only five interwikis

Support
  1. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. Makkool (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion

Remove Ras Mengesha Yohannes

Only five interwikis and only 800-odd page views a month. We already have Mikael of Wollo from the Mahdist War

Support
  1. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. Makkool (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion

Remove Benjamin Yeaten

Not one interwiki link. Not one. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. Makkool (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion

Remove Samora Yunis

Just one interwiki link pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 15:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
  2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
  4. Makkool (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Muqtada al-Sadr  5 to Lv 5. activists

PASSED
Added 4-0 Makkool (talk) 12:09, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

For awhile during the Iraq War era, seemed like you'd turn on the radio or TV and you'd always hear what "forces loyal to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr were up to. 44 interwikis. Could also be added under military or religion pbp 21:26, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Support
  1. pbp 21:26, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
  2. I was going to say he should be under politicians, but it seems he never held any office, surprisingly. Iostn (talk) 21:19, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
  3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
  4. Makkool (talk) 20:20, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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