Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Central Asia/Archive 4

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4 Archive 5 Archive 6

Invasion of Tibet (1950–1951) → Chinese Invasion of Tibet

There has been a requested move filed for Invasion of Tibet (1950–1951) → Chinese Invasion of Tibet 76.66.198.171 (talk) 21:33, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Copyright question for potential images

I've been looking at the Digitales Turfan Archiv, and they have some excellent images of old Central Asian manuscripts which I think would be of great value for related articles. At the bottom of that page, they discuss copyright issues (Nutzungsbedingungen und Copyright). Sadly, my German stinks, so I'm not sure if, based on what is written on the site, we can use the images for Wikipedia, or if we need to ask for permission first (since they did take the actual photos). Can someone with a better understanding of German (and image policy) help on this? Otebig (talk) 00:20, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't speak any German, but running that page through Google's translator suggests that their copyright policy is (paraphrasing) "for non-commercial use only, with extra rules, regulations, and procedures if you want to do anything with it". In other words, it's not free enough for Wikipedia, unfortunately. -- Hux (talk) 06:45, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
Those are faithful reproductions of two dimensional works, on which the copyright has long expired, which means they are in the public domain. Consequently, there is no legal basis for any of the demands that the Academy makes in their term of use. Of course, we should still mention them as the source, just because we're nice people (and because our guidelines require it). --Latebird (talk) 10:50, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
"Those are faithful reproductions of two dimensional works, on which the copyright has long expired" - It would help if I actually checked out the images before I gave an opinion, wouldn't it? ;) You're quite right about them being in the public domain so please disregard my earlier post. -- Hux (talk) 07:17, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Massive Chinese cavalry operations at the Caspian sea in 97 AD?

(cross-posted on China and Iran Wikiprojects)

Hi,

the article on Han Dynasty-era general Ban Chao (and a lot of other articles linking to it) currently states that in 97 A.D., he undertook a massive military expedition with about 70.000 men, and established forts on the Caspian Sea, in Merv and "only a few days" from where is now Baghdad. Problem is that I could find nothing about this in The Cambridge History of China or The Cambridge History of Early Inner Asia. Rene Grousset's The Empire of the Steppes actually does contain some more words on Ban Chao's actions in the relevant time frame, but only in the context of the Tarim Basin. So I wonder how solid the source basis for this claim ("Ban Chao started an expedition with 70.000 men and established forts on the Caspian and in Merv") really is.

Regards, Yaan (talk) 18:34, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like this stems from one interpretation of some state names in the Hou Han Shu. http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=28146&st=0&p=4956211&#entry4956211 --Stacey Doljack Borsody (talk) 21:37, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Articles Needing Work

Just reminding folks about our stub-class articles that have been rated either top or high importance. If you're looking for something to do, it should be easy to get any (or all) of these up to start-class:

Otebig (talk) 02:18, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I've added few articles: List of kazakh khans, Tauke khan and Bokei Horde (Interior Horde). I am not quite sure how to add them as articles within this project. Also, I just want to say that here in Kazakhstan there is a lot of material regarding the history. History of Kazakhstan is a mandatory knowledge (as well as kazakh or russian language (for russian speakers)) unit if one wish to apply to any university. It is also thought as a mandatory course in all Universities (in spite of the course subject). The main and basic materials for study today are the school materials (textbooks). History of Kazakhstan is thought from 6th grade of school til 11th. There are seven books for that. Here are 5 of them (in russian):

  • 6 класс-История древнего Казахстана, Т.С.Садыков, А.Т.Толеубаев, Г.Халидуллин, Б.С.Сарсеекеев, Алматы, «Атамура», 2006;
  • 7 класс-История средневекого Казахстана, С.Жолдаспаев, Д.Бабаев, Алматы, «Атамура», 2003;
  • 8 класс-История Казахстана (ХVIII век-1914), Ж.К.Касымбаев, Алматы, «Мектеп», 2004г.;
  • 9 класс-История Казахстана (1914-2004 г.) М.Козыбаев, К.Нурпей, К.Жукешев, Алматы, «Мектеп», 2005г.;

Aizhol (talk) 08:24, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Districts of Tajikistan

Please visit Districts of Tajikistan to view the new numbered map of districts developed by Ahonc. This map should be a tremendous help to all users trying to navigate the country's 58 districts. Also visit the various district pages, where Ahonc is in the process of inserting district locator maps. Happy editing. --Zlerman (talk) 01:26, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Request for Transliteration of Mongolian Text

I would like an English transliteration for the Confederation of Mongolian Trade Unions (CMTU) article. The Mongolian is: МОНГОЛЫН YЙЛДВЭРЧНИЙ ЭВЛЭЛYYДИЙН ХОЛБОО. I have basic Russian and came up with this: Mongolin Uildvehrchnii Eyvleyluudyin Cholbo. Any Mongolian speakers can help confirm/correct/improve this? Thanks. --Goldsztajn (talk) 05:08, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Apologies, moving question to Mongolia Work Group.--Goldsztajn (talk) 05:15, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Mongolia during Tang rule

Mongolia during Tang rule has been nominated for deletion at WP:AFD 76.66.193.90 (talk) 05:16, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Renaming Mongolia during Tang rule

The content of Mongolia during Tang rule has changed somewhat and while it still contains biased information, it seems to have assumed a form that can be improved upon. A first step towards including this article and changing it into a useful article on Central Asian history would be renaming it, eg. Tang dynasty and Central Asia. But maybe some of you could come over to Talk:Mongolia during Tang rule and voice your own opinion! Regards, G Purevdorj (talk) 20:16, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Coordinators' working group

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Portal:Roads

The World Roads Portal is at Peer Review, if any editors know of any articles, images, news items or DYKs which could be added to the Portal, please add them directly to the portal or contact ....SriMesh | talk 00:36, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

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Request for assistance

The Arbitration Committee is requesting assistance from editors knowledgeable on Chinese/Asian affairs to elaborate on the proposed case at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#Verifiability/Use English/Burdens in proxy battlefield article. Anyone who can provide information is asked to assist. MBisanz talk 04:12, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Azerbaijani banknotes depicting instruments

Is the fact that certain musical instruments are depicted on Azerbaijani banknotes worthy of mention in the corresponding articles ? – Please, provide your imput at:

Thank you already. - Regards, Ev (talk) 18:39, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Third opinion

If you are familiar with the history of Central Asia, please share your opinion in Talk:Samanids#Title, about the title of the page, the infobox and the lead. Alefbe (talk) 03:23, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Xibe script assistance request --- maybe a Mongolian-reader can help?

Can someone create an SVG file of the name of the Qapqal News (čapčal serkin)? Tried typing it out on my computer but it doesn't seem to join properly, all the letters show up in word-initial form: ᠴᠠᠪᠴᠠᠯ ᠰᡝᠷᠺᠢᠨ --- maybe I'm doing something wrong? You can see a picture of the name properly here: [1]. Actually I think if you can typeset Mongolian script, you might be able to help too: the only Xibe-specific letter here is ᡝ (e; it's like an "a" with a dot on the right) in the second word. Thanks, cab (talk) 03:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi! I think currently only Windows Vista and certain IMEs can really deal with Mongolian script. But I don't have a computer with Vista now, so I can't really help you out.
Actually, I think it might be possible to create a template for writing Mongolian by displaying individual characters in a vertical table, i.e. something similar to those templates for railway diagrams, just with Mongolian letters. But it will take some days. And then I don't have an svg image of that Xibe-specific letter yet. Yaan (talk) 09:13, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
No worries, I got MonTeX (a decade-old LaTeX package I'd never even heard of) installed and running this evening ... now I can write a .tex file in Latin alphabet, it makes a PDF with Mongolian script, then I convert it with pdf2svg, and fix it up in Inkscape, all under Linux. A bit round-about but it seems to work okay: File:CabcalSerkin.svg. =) No problems at all with the extra Xibe letters. I'm not ambitious or skilled enough to try making a template for all this, though. cab (talk) 15:25, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
I also toyed around with montex once, but I think I was told it looks a bit ugly. Much better than nothing though. :) Yaan (talk) 15:52, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Buddha's Birthday and Vesak

Hi, everyone. We have a DYK event for Buddha's Birthday and Vesak just like events for Christmas or April Fool's day. Many of Asian culture is based on Buddhism, so I think you guys can create/edit interesting Buddhist articles in upcoming five days. Once you create or five fold expand Buddhist related articles (famous temples, monks, movies, literature, paintings, foods, festivals, etc) within 5 days, and then nominate it to the below place. After a review, your article can be featured on the main page. So be hurry if you are interested. :) Thanks.

Template talk:Did you know#Articles created/expanded for Buddha's Birthday (May 2) and Vesak (May 9) --Caspian blue 19:06, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Farkhor Air Base in Tajikistan

Farkhor Air Base in Tajikistan is presented in the main article as synonymous with Ayni Air Base. To the best of my understanding, the Farkhor Air Base is on the southern border of Tajikistan, "130 km south-east of Dushanbe". The Ayni Air Base is in the suburbs of Dushanbe, just 10 km west or south-west of the capital. If I am right, the two air bases should be disentangled into separate articles. Can anyone help? --Zlerman (talk) 02:06, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

List of requested photographs in Kyrgyzstan Kyrgyzstan geography stubs Wikipedia:WikiProject Central Asia

Template:Lists_of_schools_in_Asia

Hi there everybody, just like to point out that most of the links in Template:Lists_of_schools_in_Asia are red, if we could fix this it would be great. If this is not the right WikiProject to discuss this on please let me know. Cody Cooper  Talk  23:40, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Help with Tugh?

I only had enough info for a stub, but a random Afghan article mentioned a type of banner made from horse/yak tails on a pole, called a tugh. Only found a few mentions on GoogleBooks that at least confirmed such, but not much more info. Any help, any pics? Does an article exist about this under another name? MatthewVanitas (talk) 19:43, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

GA Reassessment of Mongol invasion of Khwarezmia

I have done a GA Reassessment of Mongol invasion of Khwarezmia as part of the GA Sweeps project. I have found the article to need considerable work on the references. My review can be found here. I am notifying the interesting projects of this review. I have put the article on hold pending work. If there are questions please contact me at my talk page. H1nkles (talk) 22:56, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Spotlight

 Chzz  ►  22:06, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

GA reassessment of Persian literature

I have conducted a reassessment of the above article as part of the GA Sweeps process. I have found a large number of concerns with the article which you can see at Talk:Persian literature/GA1. I have de-listed the article and when the concerns have been addressed it can be renominated at WP:GAN. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 18:47, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Naming dispute on Tajik Persian/Tajik language

Please see Talk:Tajik Persian#Tajikistani Persian and comment. There is a slow-motion edit war over the past few days about the proper title for the article --- Tajik Persian or Tajik language. Thanks, cab (talk) 10:38, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Blanking of Persian Empire page

Talk:Persian Empire#Blanked page. Ottava Rima (talk) 13:28, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Mausoleum of Khoja Ahmed Yasawi

After an extensive expansion by Joey80, the Mausoleum of Khoja Ahmed Yasawi article has been nominated for a good article review. Before the review process starts, it'd be be great if a few WPCA members would look it over. Otebig (talk) 04:25, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Persian Empire

Please note that there is an editwar occuring at Persian Empire, with content shifting from being a 60k article, a redirect, or a disambiguation page. Previous to the 2 month long edit war, the article was a 60k article. As this article falls in the purview of your wikiproject, I thought I'd let you know.

76.66.197.30 (talk) 00:21, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Turfan/Turpan

There is a discussion about the title of the page at Talk:Turpan#Title. Alefbe (talk) 04:29, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Eurasian Land Bridge- New article

I just posted a new article on the Eurasian Land Bridge. It appears that there may be more sources of information in non-English sources. If anyone is interested, please see this section of the talk page for a list of information that the article is lacking but may be available in other sources. Thanks in advance. Cla68 (talk) 12:41, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Cyrillic edittools

Hello everyone. I am currently updating some of the functions in the edit window here in Wikipedia. Below the edit window we have a list of Cyrillic characters, so it should be easier to insert them in articles. That list is currently not complete, so I would need some help from some editors than can read and write Cyrillic. See MediaWiki talk:Edittools#Cyrillic (2).

Oh, and please don't start a discussion about the edittools here on this page, instead come to that page.

--David Göthberg (talk) 00:54, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Ideas on Murad Beg?

The former Emir of Bokhara, Murad Beg (also at one point governor of Qunduz?) seems quite notable, and is mentioned in several existing articles, but I'm not finding much info about him. It seems there's only one such notable guy, also called Mir Muhammad Murad Beg. I'm going to attempt a stub, but would appreciate any help. MatthewVanitas (talk) 01:59, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Pageview stats

After a recent request, I added WikiProject Central Asia to the list of projects to compile monthly pageview stats for. The data is the same used by http://stats.grok.se/en/ but the program is different, and includes the aggregate views from all redirects to each page. The stats are at Wikipedia:WikiProject Central Asia/Popular pages.

The page will be updated monthly with new data. The edits aren't marked as bot edits, so they will show up in watchlists. You can view more results, request a new project be added to the list, or request a configuration change for this project using the toolserver tool. If you have any comments or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks! Mr.Z-man 00:39, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement

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Unreferenced living people articles bot

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Asian Games by country articles

FYI, several Asiad related articles have been prodded for deletion on March 23, see WP:PRODSUM for that day.

76.66.194.32 (talk) 04:39, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

They have all ended up for deletion at AfD, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2010 March 25
76.66.194.32 (talk) 04:38, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Greater pakistan

Greater pakistan has been prodded for deletion.

76.66.192.73 (talk) 07:13, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Kotak: hoax village with offensive name?

In patrolling {{geodata-check}} tags I came across this article. On the talk page Thermokarst (talk · contribs) says that the village does not exist and that the name is offensive in Uzbek. Since I don't speak Uzbek, I can't say yes or no to that, but as I explain on the talk page, there does seem to be some reason to believe Thermokarst may be correct. Could someone here who knows what they're talking about check it out? If it is a indisputable hoax, it ought to be tagged with {{db-hoax}} for speedy deletion. — TRANSPORTERMAN (TALK) 02:41, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Looks like this one is okay. It's one letter off from the offensive word. Here's a link to a google map showing it in approximately the same location: Google map of Kotak. Also replying on your talk page in case you aren't checking here. Aelfthrytha (talk) 00:52, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Discussion on the usage of "Turkmen" and "Turkmenistani" on categories and templates

Please refer to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries#Turkmen or Turkmenistani? for further discussion. Thanks. Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 19:48, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Qaraei

Could people take a look at Qaraei? It's a mess. Woogee (talk) 21:22, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Editing dispute at Afghanistan article

The above article has been fully protected for a month, to allow the dispute to be resolved, and a consensus reached.

Any comments from knowledgeable people from this WikiProject would be appreciated. -- PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 15:13, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

July 2009 Ürümqi riots is at FAC

Anyone interested is welcome to leave comments, suggestions, or opinions here. Thanks, rʨanaɢ (talk) 16:00, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

A big discussion on the talk:Turkic peoples

Greetings. I'd like all interested parties to participate in the discussion "The Turkic ethnicities, Turkic languages and the population data in the article" on the talk page above. I am trying to include as many participants as possible from different projects. Please be active Aregakn (talk) 01:56, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

FAR

I have nominated Iranian peoples for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Dana boomer (talk) 01:32, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Mongol script proposal

People might be interested to leave comments and feedback at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Mongolian)#Mongol script proposal. More opinions and ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 10:18, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Turpan/Turfan

There is a dispute over the naming of this article, outside input at the talk page would be appreciated. rʨanaɢ (talk) 18:59, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Salamat Sadykova

Please take a look and help if you can.--Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 16:13, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Project proposal

A Parent Asia-wide project has been proposed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals/ to pick up the parts of asia not covered by any projects and to co-ordinate between projects (SEA, Central and so-on) in relation to scope and boundary issues - any thoughts here about that? SatuSuro 02:34, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Missing task forces - propose creation (for categorization purposes)

I am often adding assessment templates, and I am surprised that Central Asia seems to be the only region without country task forces. For example, WP:AFRICA has task forces for all African countriues, WP:CARRIBEAN for its region, and so on. Even if the task forces are inactive, this allows implementation of categorization and assessment through assessment templates, such as {{WikiProject Central Asia}}. As such, I'd like to strongly recommend that this project creates the missing task forces (and ties them to the assessment scheme). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 16:34, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

One issue: there's several different definitions of "Central Asia" and which countries comprise the region. It isn't a static region with clear boundaries like "Africa". Second issue: not all the countries are wholly within "Central Asia"; Russia for example, which already has its own Wikiproject (see also related Wikiprojects on Wikipedia:WikiProject Central Asia). These two issues lead to the impracticality of creating inactive country-based task forces of this Wikiproject. --Stacey Doljack Borsody (talk) 21:25, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to add that categories are a more useful tool for purposes of categorization. Task forces and Wikiprojects are tools for collaboration of effort. The creation of inactive task forces sounds like preemptive effort collaboration, which could be useful to those who become interested in the effort in the future, but I have to ask why not just use the parent Wikiproject for such purposes? --Stacey Doljack Borsody (talk) 21:30, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Ideally, we would have active wikiprojects for each country. As things stand, Central Asia countries, roughly defined, are within the Central Asia WikiProject scope. It makes sense to create such task forces, and if a controversy arises about one, it will probably mean there is enough interest to justify a split into a proper wikiproject :) Regarding the use; consider the specific case I am working on: I am adding assessing "Economy of..." pages. Sure, I can just add the Central Asia project tag; but it would be more useful to be able to add a country subproject, too; particularly because the importance may vary (economy of a given country is usually only of a mid-importance for the region, but of top for the country in question). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 23:23, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
The national subprojects basically exist. The question you're asking is more about the project banner having syntax to provide separate assessments for them. John Carter (talk) 23:40, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Well, in that case could the project banner be upgraded to that syntax? I'd do it myself, if I knew how to. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 16:01, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
That would be up to the other members. I could do it if there were consensus. I might also point out that I am making a real effort, even if it is regularly interrupted by other matters, to try to create lists of the various journals and other English language periodicals which regularly deal with given topics, be they countries, disciplines, or whatever. But, like I said, this gets interrupted frequently. I also intend, where possible, to create separate bibliography articles for these topics. When they are created (hopefully before I die of old age and innumerable distractions) I would think that they would be serve as a good basis to help activate some of the topics. And also, yes, I do think that, if properly done, indicating which articles are the most important to the individual countries or regions (including material regarding their prehistory under other names) would probably help see those more central articles get developed faster. That is harder to do with only the regional importance ratings. John Carter (talk) 14:51, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
I didn't realize earlier that the other WikiProjects are considered sub-projects of this one. I see what you mean regarding assessment and how useful it would be to have the ability to work off the Central Asian template. Looking closer, the sub-projects do not have their own template and instead use the Central Asian template. It looks like John Carter added the Kazakhstan sub-project to the template a year ago (someone had asked why it doesn't work on the Kazakhstan project talk page). None of the other sub-projects have it. At this point I see two options. 1) Add the rest of the sub-projects to the Central Asian template or 2) create new templates for the sub-projects (and then can the Central Asian template read the assessment information for the sub-projects from them?). I'm not sure which is better. I think option 2 might be more elegant due to simplicity. Let's get some more input from members here and members of the sub-projects. --Stacey Doljack Borsody (talk) 18:16, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
I take that back; the Kyrgyzstan sub-project has its own template. There may be others. Kazakhstan did not have its own template. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Kyrgyzstan#Templates --Stacey Doljack Borsody (talk) 18:19, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Central Asia articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release

Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the Central Asia articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (♦) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.

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WikiProject cleanup listing

I have created together with Smallman12q a toolserver tool that shows a weekly-updated list of cleanup categories for WikiProjects, that can be used as a replacement for WolterBot and this WikiProject is among those that are already included (because it is a member of Category:WolterBot cleanup listing subscriptions). See the tool's wiki page, this project's listing in one big table or by categories and the index of WikiProjects. Svick (talk) 20:16, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Bayanzürkh

Hello, my friends: A group of us are working on clearing the backlog at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Articles_lacking_sources_from_October_2006. The article in the above header has been without sources for the past four years and might be removed if none are added. I wonder if you can help find one or two good references. Sincerely, and all the best to you, GeorgeLouis (talk) 19:56, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Mongolia Premier League

The article Mongolia Premier League has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

A few mentions online support the existence of the league, no published (gBooks) WP:RS references, the majority of the content can not be validated. Only the minor mention web links in the other language articles. Fails WP:N and WP:V

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Jeepday (talk) 23:12, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

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