Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Correction and Detention Facilities/Archive 1

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To Do:

Ok. First things first. We need to create a userbox and a page assessment box. I've created the following userbox. Let me know what you think.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 01:18, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Fx
This user is a member of the Correction and Detention Facilities WikiProject..
Since there has not really been any debate over this and I've noticed a few people (including myself) have put it on their user pages, I'm going to create the template and make this the userbox.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 00:29, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

(unindent) Here is the current version of the userbox, and its wikicode:

This user is a participant in
WikiProject Correction
and Detention Facilities.

{{User Wikiproject Correction and Detention Facilities}}

--Timeshifter (talk) 20:23, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Page assessment

I've found that one of best ways to organize a Wikiproject is with a page assessment tool. It's basically a template that you add to the talk page of each article that tells you what the importance and quality of the article. It also links to a box that goes to the Wikiproject page that tells you how many articles have been tagged and basically where you are in covering the project's goals. I have no idea how to create the page template or the assessment box. The assessment boxes I've seen at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Law#Assessment and Wikipedia:WikiProject_U.S._Supreme_Court_cases#Recognized_content are good examples.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 15:52, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok. I think I've figured it out.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 00:00, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Project Scope

One issue I've run into is whether to include individual prisoners in the scope of this project. Obviously, the treatment each prisoner receives reflects on the institution, but I wonder whether this project should expand to encompass all the people listed in Wikipedia who have ever been detained, imprisoned or institutionalized. Let me know what you think.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 17:18, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

In a nutshell; Within the scope of an entry, yes, but within the scope of this project, no (In my humble opinion). I think we should restrict ourselves to the facility itself. Obviously, prisoners of interest would be included within where appropriate, but should not fall within the scope of the project per se. I just don't want to see us get too mired down. --JeffJ (talk) 21:00, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
Another issue you could potentially run into is the veracity of claims made. Just because someone says they were treated in a specific manner doesn't make it true. Niteshift36 (talk) 03:32, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
Ok. So why don't we say that we'll avoid tagging pages of individuals who were imprisoned (at least for now), even if they are only notable for the fact that they were imprisoned (ex. Salim Hamdan). Maybe that deserves its own wikiproject anyway. Another issue I've noticed is that sometimes the only mention of a prison is on a page for the town it's in. I would say that at least until the prison gets its own article, we keep those places within the scope of the project.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 15:30, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

On a side note, I've also been tagging articles dealing with the treatment of prisoners and detainees (for example, articles dealing with execution).--Cdogsimmons (talk) 15:30, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Side note two. Google lists 59,900 articles on the English wikipedia as including the word "Prison".--Cdogsimmons (talk) 16:21, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
Fortunately, a lot of them shouldn't fall into the scope. That's a plus. Niteshift36 (talk) 07:25, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Another question on scope.......gangs in prisons? Niteshift36 (talk) 07:26, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
I would reiterate my above argument. I think there are many related topics that would link to the facilities, such as famous prisoners, riots, controversies, gangs, fallen officers, and so on, but I would like to see this project remain focused on the facilities themselves. Certainly, these sub-topics would be welcome within the articles, but fall within a much broader scope. As always, this is my humble opinion, which is known to be firm but maliable. --JeffJ (talk) 00:02, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
While I think detention facilities should be the bread and butter of this project, I also think that article regarding treatment of prisoners, correctional methodology, and the day to day life of a working prison should also fall within the scope (See Pruno). I think there should be some healthy overlap with other projects. So The Night Thoreau Spent in Jail might be appropriate, but Henry David Thoreau would not.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 01:13, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
  • What about the agencies themselves? Like the California Dept. of Corrections for example? Niteshift36 (talk) 22:42, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

To Do List

I've noticed that a few central articles could use improvement. Fore example, it would be nice to actually get a complete list of prisons by country so we can see how we are doing in creating and assessing individual articles. The current List of prisons is incomplete. The Category:Prisons by country page might be a good place to start in populating the list but it too is incomplete. Only 67 countries have categories on that page and quite a few of the countries only have one prison listed.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 21:59, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia has few and very short entries describing correctional facility policies and conditions overall. Looking over the prison stubs, I notice that they are mostly names of corrections and detention facilities. The conditions, rules, and problems that many corrections systems share should be described on Wikipedia. This is an area where there has been a fair amount of investigative journalism by both journalists and advocacy groups which could be cited. In the U.S. prison policies are often available on DOJ or BOP websites, but this information can be hard to find. There is also a lot of misinformation about prison policies on the internet and accurate information is important and helpful. I just created an article on Compassionate Release which is marked as a prison-stub, but this is just one example. Please create and edit these pages! Topics that could use expansion include jail, parole, solitary confinement, and prison riots. Topics that I couldn't find any entries for include prison medical facilities and research on prisoners (the famous Tuskegee syphilis study is described in detail but has no link to other prisoner research), and prisoner advocacy groups. Jessamyncp (talk) 21:24, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Notability of Content

I've run into a few instances where content that I would consider to be within the scope of this project has been deleted for lack of notability. For example, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of laojiaos in Anhui. A great number of articles regarding specific prisons have been nominated for delation but kept, for example Masanjia Labor Camp. Perhaps we should set some standard for the notability of specific prisons and detention facilities. I personally am an inclusionist and think Wikipedia can be used to aggressively expand the scope of knowledge through lists of topics that don't yet have articles or stubs that are very minimal. I understand that others disagree. I would in favor of setting a standard that any prison or detention facility that can be verified to exist should meet notability requirements because it is a demonstration of State power repealing certain civil rights of individuals (ex. liberty). Let me know what you think.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 17:28, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Articles with minimal/unsourced content could be deleted. I suggest that minor lists of relevant units should be written as non-list articles. I list a few countries as examples of countries, whose prisons have a particular significance: Turkey, Syria, PR of China and Tanzania. Sarcelles (talk) 18:09, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Cdogsimmons, I think ALL prisons or detention facilities that verifiably exist (In active use, or defunct) are worth an inlusion on Wiki, isnt this what its for? Bleaney (talk) 12:43, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

A dumb question

So how exactly does one put up an original article in the first place? Niteshift36 (talk) 07:21, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry this response came so late. You type the name of the article in the search bar. Then when the search page comes up with the results (when there's no article under that name) you click on the red link which should open a box to write the new article in.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 23:32, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Removals of lists in other wikipedias

In the German and Russian wikipedias one respectively two lists of Chinese labor camps, in the Dutch and Polish wikipedias one respectively two lists of Chinese labor camps have been removed. Sarcelles (talk) 14:17, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

A question of naming the articles

Hello everybody.

I was just recently wondering about how to name articles of prisons in non-english-language-countries. To specify my request just a short example: I wrote nearly all of the articles about austrian prisons in german wikipedia and am now planning to do so in english too. In German these prisons are called "Justizanstalt + Location" (for example Justizanstalt Innsbruck). Sould we use this name in en.wiki too or should we call all of them "Location + prison" (for example Innsbruck prison)? This regards every prison of non-english-language-countries. The other question is the name of the location. Should we use the official name in the foreign language (such as Justizanstalt Wien-Josefstadt) or should we use the english translation instead (like Justizanstalt Vienna-Josefstadt)? Thanks for commenting, Plani (talk) 12:11, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Sorry that my response to this question is so late. I would think we should use the official name if it is known and if there is an english version, redirect it to the official name. There is probably an official policy for this issue for all articles. I'm just not sure what it is.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 00:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Surveillance and Incarceration in the U.S., Russia, and China listed for deletion

I have listed the new article Surveillance and Incarceration in the U.S., Russia, and China at AfD for being an arbitrary cross-categorization (ie, the only thing these three countries have in common in this article is that they were listed as the 3 countries with the biggest incarceration systems). Comments from people in this project would be welcome at the AfD discussion. —Politizer talk/contribs 08:47, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Scope

Does this project include fictional prisons, or portrayals of prisons in fiction, in its scope? I ask because User:Cdogsimmons has tagged the articles Alien 3 and Dagger of the Mind with the project banner, and on first glance they don't appear to belong within the project's scope. The stated scope of the project is "articles related to the field of corrections and penology", but it seems to focus on real-world topics such as prisons, court cases, etc...not works of fiction. Including fiction seems silly; I mean, imagine if the Military History project included Star Wars and Star Trek in its scope... --IllaZilla (talk) 09:41, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Just my opinion, but I'd say it shouldn't. The Star Trek project has some very intense editors and the Aliens movie belongs to 4 other projects. I know articles can be under multiple projects, but it seems like a stretch to fold these into this project. Niteshift36 (talk) 13:28, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
I think its difficult to make a distinction to be honest. And therefore its best to include any articles that MAY be related to the project. Some works of fiction will UNDOUBTEDLY be related to this project if they talk about themes of penology etc, and if that fiction in some way relates directly to real world prisons (historical or current) its valid on this project. Bleaney (talk) 22:36, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
I see that I may have stepped on some toes. I tagged those pages because the central plot point of Alien 3 and Dagger of the Mind was a prison. I've done the same in the past where the focus of a feature film was a prison (see Shawshank Redemption and Carandiru (film)). I see where IllaZilla is coming from. After all, where do you draw the line? However, in my judgment, fictitious portrayals of prisons do fall within the scope of this project as long as it is a central plot point.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 01:51, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
I will also point out that the Military History project implies that the projects within its scope are actual history. That restriction does not apply to this project.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 01:53, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
I guess I can see where you're coming from. If the theme of the work in question is the penal sytem or prisons, then it might be appropriate. I advise not letting it get out of hand, however, to the point where any work of fiction that has any type of prison or jail scene anywhere in it is included. You might want to expand your "Scope" section to make that distinction clearer. IMO a good scope section should also give some guidance on what the limits of the scope are. --IllaZilla (talk) 03:09, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

GA Sweeps invitation

This message is being sent to WikiProjects with GAs under their scope. Since August 2007, WikiProject Good Articles has been participating in GA sweeps. The process helps to ensure that articles that have passed a nomination before that date meet the GA criteria. After nearly two years, the running total has just passed the 50% mark. In order to expediate the reviewing, several changes have been made to the process. A new worklist has been created, detailing which articles are left to review. Instead of reviewing by topic, editors can consider picking and choosing whichever articles they are interested in.

We are always looking for new members to assist with reviewing the remaining articles, and since this project has GAs under its scope, it would be beneficial if any of its members could review a few articles (perhaps your project's articles). Your project's members are likely to be more knowledgeable about your topic GAs then an outside reviewer. As a result, reviewing your project's articles would improve the quality of the review in ensuring that the article meets your project's concerns on sourcing, content, and guidelines. However, members can also review any other article in the worklist to ensure it meets the GA criteria.

If any members are interested, please visit the GA sweeps page for further details and instructions in initiating a review. If you'd like to join the process, please add your name to the running total page. In addition, for every member that reviews 100 articles from the worklist or has a significant impact on the process, s/he will get an award when they reach that threshold. With ~1,300 articles left to review, we would appreciate any editors that could contribute in helping to uphold the quality of GAs. If you have any questions about the process, reviewing, or need help with a particular article, please contact me or OhanaUnited and we'll be happy to help. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 06:26, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Map image on lethal injection page

The map image on the Lethal injection page that denotes what US states use lethal injection as a method of execution needs to be updated, because Nebraska has just adopted lethal injection as a method (although the state has not yet conducted any executions using this method.) CopaceticThought (talk) 19:46, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Marshalsea FAC

Hi, the article about the Marshalsea prison is up for featured-article status. If there's any interest, please see here. Many thanks, SlimVirgin talk|contribs 21:29, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Gefängnis Zürich

The Gefängnis Zürich article has been listed at AfD. Mjroots (talk) 09:48, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Popular pages

I have requested a list of popular pages for this project at [1]. --Ysangkok (talk) 21:17, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Pageview stats

After a recent request, I added WikiProject Correction and Detention Facilities to the list of projects to compile monthly pageview stats for. The data is the same used by http://stats.grok.se/en/ but the program is different, and includes the aggregate views from all redirects to each page. The stats are at Wikipedia:WikiProject Correction and Detention Facilities/Popular pages.

The page will be updated monthly with new data. The edits aren't marked as bot edits, so they will show up in watchlists. You can view more results, request a new project be added to the list, or request a configuration change for this project using the toolserver tool. If you have any comments or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks! Mr.Z-man 00:40, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Book about U.S. federal prisons

I found The U.S. federal prison system By Mary Bosworth on Google Books - One can use this book as a source to improve articles about U.S. federal prisons. WhisperToMe (talk) 01:20, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Imprisonment v Incarceration

It seems that a number of people on wikipedia and at the Bureau of Justice Statistics have gotten incarceration confused with imprisonment. Imprisonment should not redirect to incarceration...their is a difference.

  • Imprisonment rate- the number of prisoners sentenced to more than 1 year under state or federal jurisdiction per 100,000 U.S. residents. see page 16
  • Incarceration rate-the total number of inmates held in custody of state or federal prisons or local jails per 100,000 U.S. residents.see page 16

Incarceration is actually being captive, imprisonment is the sentencing.Smallman12q (talk) 14:37, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Please see definitions here:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Aimprisonment
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Aincarceration
I think the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) is incorrect in Appendix Table 1 on page 16. The chart uses the terms "imprisonment rate" and "incarceration rate" incorrectly in my opinion.
BJS tries to use the two terms to distinguish between the incarceration rate for sentenced prisoners only (no jail inmates), and the incarceration rate for inmates in both jails and prisons (whether sentenced or not). But the common definitions of incarceration and imprisonment do not allow that distinction. --Timeshifter (talk) 19:38, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Starvation

In several end-of-the-war scenarios, prisoners of the enemy, who had survived were freed, only to die a few days or weeks later, probably of starvation-related causes. This was painful to read about. This is documented in the Civil War (confederate camps), Nazi camps and Changi (specifically). There were probably many others. I wonder if this has been systematically studied and analyzed. All relating to the same root cause: camp maintainers run out of food, even in Germany where they were trying to kill the prisoners anyway; prisoners futilely complain, wardens cannot and/or will not help; captives are eventually freed only to die after being fed for several days or weeks. It seems to me that if this has been studied it may already be in Wikipedia somewhere, or if not, should be. Any ideas? Student7 (talk) 23:53, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Idaho Department of Correction

An article that you have been involved in editing, Idaho Department of Correction, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Muhandes (talk) 14:40, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Ideas for prison articles

This "WORLD'S TOUGHEST PRISONS." webpage from the National Geographic website mentions the Lurigancho Prison in Peru and the Santa Marta Prison in Mexico City. If one wants, maybe he/she can research them? WhisperToMe (talk) 07:07, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

project banner template doc

Documentation is needed for the project banner. Please add it. Griffinofwales (talk) 15:09, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Spring Creek Correctional Center

I've added a photo I took of the facility and done a fair amount of editing to Spring Creek Correctional Center. Any feedback on either the photo or the article, and further good faith editing, would be appreciated. BTW, anyone know why the article is rated as low importance? AlaskaMike (talk) 16:37, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

BTW, I know the prose could flow better and the blind url's need work. :) AlaskaMike (talk) 01:21, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
The article would have been rated low importance as, in general, only prisons that are of national significance are rated Mid importance (Internationally significant prisons are rated higher than this). So is Spring Creek Correctional Center are nationally significant prison? Bleaney (talk) 01:45, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
I believe several points make it nationally significant. The prison has been covered by the media in the lower 48 during several high profile reports; the MSNBC documentary which has run repeatedly on the network, in documentaries and books about the serial killer Robert Hansen, who is housed there, and recently the murder of John Carlin III, a convicted murderer himself and alleged co-conspirator in the case Mechele Linehan, a case which received significant national attention.

I'm a very collaborative editor here on Wikipedia, which is why I posted this request here. Although I believe I have significantly improved the article by adding details and photos, I believe that others can make it even better. That is what makes Wikipedia so great! AlaskaMike (talk) 16:07, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Is there any real usefulness to the Importance Scale? What is its purpose? --JeffJ (talk) 23:02, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

There is a usefulness. The importance scale determines which articles absolutely must have our attention, which articles should get some attention, and which articles are relatively unimportant. WhisperToMe (talk) 05:12, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
I agree. Bleaney (talk) 12:06, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

School zoning of employee housing of U.S. prisons

For people working on U.S. prison articles, please check if the prison has employee housing (some prisons in the USA have employee housing on-site). If the prison has employee housing, check what schools the employee housing is zoned to. Typically the school district that the prison is located in has designated attendance boundaries. Also for high school articles, it should be mentioned that children living in the prison employee housing go to that school. WhisperToMe (talk) 15:44, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Source: Law library manual

I'm not sure how much this will help, but I found:

  • Trammel, Rebecca. Werner's Manual for Prison Law Libraries. Wm. S. Hein Publishing, 2004. ISBN 0837701619, 9780837701615.

WhisperToMe (talk) 04:31, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Inactive Project?

Is this project being maintained by anyone currently? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:48, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

The project's page may be very well maintained or updated but most of the project members are still very much active in editing articles within its scope. So I don't think it's time to mark it as inactive if that's what you're thinking. -- Ϫ 07:42, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Reassessment request

Can some neutral party please reassess the quality of Private prison? It was rated C 2 years ago. I think it has improved a lot since then, at least to B. A critique would also be useful, i.e. what it would take to get it to A. Thundermaker (talk) 15:37, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

New life for horses ... with prisoners

Here's a source... WhisperToMe (talk) 06:09, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Prison encyclopedia

I also found: Roth, Michael P. Prisons and Prison Systems: A Global Encyclopedia. Greenwood Publishing Group, 2006. ISBN 0313328560, 9780313328565. WhisperToMe (talk) 21:14, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Correction and Detention Facilities articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release

Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the Correction and Detention Facilities articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (♦) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.

We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of October, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!

For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 22:19, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Another source

WhisperToMe (talk) 08:41, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

And...

Also...

And a Brazil prison riot at Pedrinhas Penitentiary

WhisperToMe (talk) 02:33, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Articles needed in English

WhisperToMe (talk) 23:13, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Sentencing in the UK

I noticed there were a few gaps around sentencing/probation in the UK. In particular, there's a Criminal sentencing in Canada, and a Criminal sentencing in the United States. But no equivalent for England and Wales. Also no UK content for Community service, Parole or Suspended sentence. Does anyone have that covered? I can fill in some gaps for some of them and might even be able to create a Criminal sentencing in the UK one... but no point in reinventing the wheel if it's already in the pipeline! Thanks JusticeNerd (talk) 18:45, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Robert Perkinson stuff

WhisperToMe (talk) 06:41, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Pawiak Prison Entry

There is a factual error in either the English or in the German entry for Pawiak: "Approximately 100,000 men and 200,000 women passed through the prison" is the English entry, whereas the German entry states "insgesamt etwa 100.000 Männer und 20.000 Frauen gefangen gehalten". Only one can be acurate but I cannot correct it since I have no idea which is right.74.14.4.106 (talk) 23:19, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

  • It's probably a typo in the English case, in the case of the women. WhisperToMe (talk) 00:33, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
It might be. The German Wiki statement is unsourced and the English Wiki one has the inline citation only after the following sentence (about the # of executions). The Polish Wiki does not cite either 200k or 20k. I think that was pulled from a different source. As I've mentioned at [2] WikiProject Poland the complicating factor is that there were actually two prisons here - one for men and one for women. Sometimes sources use "Pawiak" when referring to both and sometimes only in relation to the men's section (which actually did house some women). It would be nice to get more sources on this. Volunteer Marek (talk) 02:22, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
For what it's worth, my guess (i.e. "OR") is that it probably should be 20,000. It makes sense of the numbers and is also the common sense number. But I don't know what the source that this was based on is so it's just my personal speculation. Volunteer Marek (talk) 02:26, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Tamaulipas prison system

The Tamaulipas prison system has been in the news lately for the number of prison breaks

Would it be alright if I had help expanding Secretaría de Seguridad Pública (Tamaulipas) and talking about the breaks? I'd also like to get more info on each of the prisons in Tamaulipas. WhisperToMe (talk) 00:33, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

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