Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera/Archive 126

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Opera in the 2010s

Our article Opera is missing anything later that "the 2000s". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:06, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

It hasn't got anything about 21st-century operas, period. So you should perhaps change the title of this thread. Softlavender (talk) 10:55, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
No, someone with knowledge should add something. Peter Maxwell Davies comes to my mind. If not I will at least change "still performed in the 2000s" to a decade later. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:07, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
Looking at this article I have the feeling it needs a thorough review. E.g. can it be right to state baldly that Schütz "helped to establish [the] national traditions in the 17th century" of opera in Germany when we only know of one operatic work by him, and that one is lost? The article is also throughout very variably supported by citations.--Smerus (talk) 19:14, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Tannhäuser's motivations

The section in Tannhäuser presently headed 'Game Theory Analysis' (which I did not write) had its title changed by me to 'Tannhäuser's motivations' - as its contents refer not only to games-theory but to Jungian interpretations. This has been reverted twice by an editor without explanation. Perhaps any interested editors could therefore comment at the discussion thread on the talk-page?.--Smerus (talk) 12:31, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Michael McCarthy (singer)

Should the talk page of Michael McCarthy (singer) be tagged with {{WikiProject Opera}}? I removed it once ("he's not an opera singer (ensemble in Rigoletto doesn't cut it), so {{WikiProject Opera}} doesn't apply."), but that was reverted: "Restored WP:WikiProject Opera tag (removed in good faith), he was Thomas Inkle in Inkle and Yarico#Modern revival, performed in Barbados, Washington D.C., Berlin and Edinburgh (live link to Covent Gdn). Pics: http://www.michaelmccarthy.net/photos". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 04:34, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

I've removed it and explained why at length on Talk:Michael McCarthy (singer), including the fact that the version of Inkle and Yarico that he performed in was a musical, completely recomposed and only based on the original opera. A 15-year-old member of the "ensemble" in Rigoletto certainly doesn't cut it either. Incidentally, that article is way too heavily dependent on what McCarthy says about himself on his various profiles all over the internet. Voceditenore (talk) 06:40, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Introduction

Elsa, Oslo 2014

Ladies and gentlemen, I very much appreciate Your work here and I am willing to contribute from time to time. I'm mainly active in deWP where I wrote about 800 articles - and I estimate that roughly half of them were dedicated to opera. I'm very interested in contemporary photography of opera productions and fortunately we get more and more uploaded on WC. Here is a list of available photographs from Michelides/Peralta traveling all over Europe to add hopefully interesting pictures: [1]. If You are interested in pics just send me a message. Although I'm specialized on biographies and opera houses sometimes I also describe operas. Regards --Meister und Margarita (talk) 20:42, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

There's a lot to do

Set designer: IMHO the visuals in an opera production are pretty important. Therefore I've written about forty biographies on set and costume designers in deWP as well as some fifteen on light designers. I hereby encourage you to add biographies on these important contributors to the productions. For example, there are 22 nominees for the International Opera Awards from 2013 to 2016. en WP has only one biography, 21 are missing. See: [2]. And those are just the best, just the tip of the iceberg. I intend to write an article on Erhard Rom (Nixon in China at the Royal Swedish Opera is his latest production). And I will improve Es Devlin. Would be great if we could at least create ten new bios, help!--Meister und Margarita (talk) 18:23, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Absolutely right, but this is a topic on which I know very little. If for example you can do rough translations of your German articles where these are lacking on English WP, I would be glad to copyedit them however - --Smerus (talk) 11:05, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the offer. But frankly, I think the translating machine would be sufficient. These are pretty simple texts. I can have a look afterwards.--Meister und Margarita (talk) 12:50, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
OK let us have a list of your relevant articles on German WP and I will have a look. Best, --Smerus (talk) 14:11, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
"the translating machine" is never sufficient - if you doubt this, try putting an English article into German with it! Johnbod (talk) 17:22, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
Yeh, but I've got enough German (he said hopefully) to negotiate the worst hurdles.....--Smerus (talk) 09:50, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

(not all articles have been written by me, but in these cases we have a German version and no English version) Greetings--Meister und Margarita (talk) 18:48, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

I've done this (Aleksandar Denić) as an experiment.--Smerus (talk) 20:25, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Richard Wagner

If anyone is willing to look here and mediate in a curious exchange I should be very grateful. I am at a loss as to how to deal with the editor concerned. Thanks, --Smerus (talk) 20:49, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

GAN option

I nominated Va tacito e nascosto for GA if anyone is interested in reviewing it. (If you do review it, please keep in mind this is a short, often overlooked, aria and available information doesn't support a 20,000-word treatise on the subject.) LavaBaron (talk) 00:07, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

  • I've reviewed it but haven't found myself able to pass it for GA. But would welcome the opinions of others.--Smerus (talk) 21:06, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Composer/Operas of the month for November or December?

Maybe this is a bit last minute for November but how about finishing off the missing operas for Giovanni Battista Pergolesi, given he's such an important Italian opera composer of the early 18th century? There aren't that many bona fide Pergolesi operas left to deal with (let's ignore the few false attributions to him):

Whatever the Project does, I think I'll be able to create at least stub/start class pages on these works in the next month. Cheers. --Folantin (talk) 17:24, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Folantin! I shall implement this right now as CoM. Voceditenore (talk) 10:31, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
  • Apropos of November's XoMs, I have also temporarily switched the Opera of the Month for November to Singer of the Month and highlighted four women opera singers with missing articles on WikiProject Women in Red's list of missing opera singers. I chose four who already have articles on other language Wikipedias and who have portraits available on Wikimedia Commons. I also added a link to the full list if anyone wants more suggestions. Voceditenore (talk) 11:18, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
That's much appreciated, Voceditenore; thank you. --Tagishsimon (talk) 11:21, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
I had already created an article on Jeanne Anaïs Castellan but I left out the hyphen, I have moved the page to Jeanne-Anaïs Castellan. I don't know whether I should take that listing off the project page.Smeat75 (talk) 17:05, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for that, Smeat. I've replaced her with Caroline Barbot. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 17:18, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Barbara Howitt

Hey folks - I'm working on a biography of British soprano Barbara Howitt who was active in London in the 1950s. Her main claim to fame (and notability) was appearing as the soloist in the Hitchcock film The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956 film), but otherwise she was generally a second-string singer. I have a sizable amount of reviews and I know of the Covent Garden online database but I can't find anything biographical - about her birth and early years, and no obituary (she was probably born in the 1930s so if she's still around she'd be in her 80s). Any leads appreciated! - kosboot (talk) 02:57, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

This one is American. de Falla may be her? Viennese also. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:56, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
She appears on a few complete opera recordings (including recording Suzuki to Victoria de los Ángeles' Butterfly and on a recording of Die Walküre) and made recordings with the London Symphony. She did a bunch with Opera Scotland as well. See here, here, and here. Here is a photograph of her too with Edward Downes. She's definitely a notable performer based on her discography. I am wondering if she got married and changed her name; or if she perhaps died young. This review mentions that their are liner notes on her on the Butterfly recording. Perhaps these notes might reveal more on the singer. Best. 4meter4 (talk) 14:18, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
She had a short career - 1948 is the earliest I can find, final Covent Garden appearances in 1959; then one appearance in 1963 in a play - and then nothing. - 14:55, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
I have searched the Globe and The Times for marriage or obituary announcements, but came up empty-handed. - kosboot (talk) 14:56, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

In Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk Sadlers Wells, 1963 (The Musical Times, Vol. 100, No. 1399 (Sep., 1959), pp. 469-47); title role in La Cenerentola, Wexford, 1956, " Barbara Howitt played the title-part with sincerity and feeling, and her coloratura contralto singing was excellent. In successive performances she showed that she must be careful not to overdo some of her personal gestures" (The Musical Times, Vol. 97, No. 1366 (Dec., 1956), pp. 656-657); and a few other references in JSTOR....--Smerus (talk) 15:05, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

This google books search reveals some more content on her performance career but nothing on her personal life that I can find. Of particular interest to me was a performance as Mrs. Lovett in the world premiere of Malcolm Arnold's Sweeney Todd. I would encourage you to go ahead and create an article even with key biographical content missing 4meter4 (talk) 16:32, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Staatstheater Braunschweig

Staatstheater Braunschweig was moved. Discussion on the talk. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:46, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Adriano in Siria (Pergolesi)

I think I have done with it. Please, feel free to check the format and grammar. Thanks. --Jay (talk) 04:14, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Nice to see you around again, Jay. I'm too busy in real life to do much at the moment but I'll check it when I get a chance, unless anybody else wants to do that first. Cheers.--Folantin (talk) 12:29, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
Its nice to see you again too. :) --Jay (talk) 02:17, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Laura de Turczynowicz

Laura de Turczynowicz is a newly arrived article; she might benefit from a little care & attention. Specifically the article has little to say about her operatic and theatrical career. thanks --Tagishsimon (talk) 07:07, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Template:The Magic Flute at WP:TFD

You guys may recall a couple of years ago, that I was creating multimedia templates for operas consistent with other WP:MEDIAF efforts on WP. Today, my attention was brought to The Magic Flute where the Template was universally removed from all relevant articles. Please join the discussion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2016_November_23#Template:The_Magic_Flute.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:16, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

The discussion was closed as "Keep". Voceditenore (talk) 07:45, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Genovefa Weber

I have just completed it. Feel free to check. Thanks. --Jay (talk) 02:16, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi Jay! Great to see you back and thanks so much for the article! Gerda and I have done a few minor tweaks. I also added Template:Translated page to Talk:Genovefa Weber, since it appears to be a translation of the German Wikipedia page. The addition of the template is required now to provide attribution to the original authors of translated articles. Best wishes, and again, welcome back, Voceditenore (talk) 10:28, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Celeste Coltellini

Ok, just completed this too. Please check whenever you guys are free. Thanks --Jay (talk) 10:16, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Thank you! If this had inline citations throughout, it could go to DYK, did you know? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:47, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

GAN

I've nominated Julius Harrison for GAN. Help is welcome. One of the challenges will be finding a royalty free or fair use portrait. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:59, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

You'd better get his father right, for a start.--Smerus (talk) 16:21, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
I saw two mistakes in the first sentence, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:05, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
Hi Kudpung. I've uploaded and added a fair use image of Harrison and copyedited the lede a bit. Smerus, what's wrong with his father's name? The ODNB lists him as Walter Henry Harrison, a grocer and candle maker [3], just as the WP article does. Voceditenore (talk) 17:59, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
When I looked at it, it gave his father as Sir Joseph Beecham 😐 -since corrected by Kudpung.....--Smerus (talk) 18:41, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
The 'father' error came from copying and pasting sentences around to create a proper lede from the single short sentence it was. Comments here are generally helpful but it's often just as quick to go ahead and do small fixes. Anyone can contribute to a GAN. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:51, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
I do however have a serious point to raise about this article, and as my queries are generic in nature I raise them here rather than in a GAN review. The article contains a very extensive section, Selected Works. I make the following points, some of which apply to many other articles in WP:OPERA and WP:Classical music:
  • The list is enormously detailed, even including movement or song titles from suites or collections. Such listings normally go in separate articles as they are WP:UNDUE for the article as a whole.
  • No sources are given except for a single work.
  • 'Selected' - but by whom? If by the editor, this is WP:OR, as what authority is there to say that these are the composer's most significant works? If the list as a whole - or in large part - comes from a particular source, it ought to be cited - but there may then be copyright issues.
--Smerus (talk) 09:29, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
Smerus, would you perhaps like to take out the parts that you feel shouldn't be there? I started the article but I didn't provide all the content ad I would have no objection to anything being edited out - I don't own it. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:53, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
I'd probably better not fiddle with the article as Harrison is not really my type of topic. But if I were to do so I would start by deleting the first section of 'Selected works' ( which doesn't indicate what sort of works these are), and removing the rest to a new List of works by Julius Harrison, ideally with references and citations, which can be given a link in the biography article. That could save some problems in the GAN. And I would try to find some more about the music from good secondary sources and expand the 'Works' section, which I would re-title 'Music'.--Smerus (talk) 22:16, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
I strongly agree that a lengthy list-section of Works does not belong in the parent article, but rather in a subsidiary "List of works by" article, as with every other composer. Softlavender (talk) 10:18, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
UPDATE: I went ahead and moved the overlong list to List of compositions by Julius Harrison. Feel free to edit it at will. Feel free also to move some of the works back into the parent article, but not excessively. Softlavender (talk) 10:35, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Maria de Rudenz

Maria de Rudenz was expanded, and the style of synopsis and (even more so) performance history seems not exactly encyclopedic, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:56, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

The article was rated as Stub-Class in 2008. Now that it has been expanded, I think the minimum class should be C or B. I changed it to C for now. Let see what others think about it --Jay (talk) 14:54, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages

Greetings WikiProject Opera/Archive 126 Members!

This is a one-time-only message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:

If the above proposal gets in the Top 10 based on the votes, there is a high likelihood of this bot being restored so your project will again see monthly updates of popular pages.

Further, there are over 260 proposals in all to review and vote for, across many aspects of wikis.

Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through December 12, 2016.

Best regards, Stevietheman — Delivered: 18:05, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

  • Note to OP members. Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/Popular pages has been a really useful tool for the project. Alas, the monthly updates ceased after April 2016. I've nipped over to Meta and voted my support. I urge anyone else who would like to see it revived to do the same. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 18:26, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Draft:Urška Arlič Gololičič

Dear opera enthusiasts: Here's a draft at AfC that may interest you.—Anne Delong (talk) 04:22, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Hi Anne. I note that this article was created a user whose previous username was that of Gololičič's management agency, "Studio Kultura", and it shows. The whole thing reads like a concert programme blurb. More about that in a minute. Is she notable? Would she pass an AfD? Maybe a 50/50 chance. The coverage of her is very limited, basically concert/opera performance announcements. (I've had a look for something better but couldn't find anything.) She's won a couple of singing contests, but neither of them are notable and neither of them international ones. She has sung multiple leading roles, but all except one with the Ljubljana Slovene National Theatre Opera and Ballet [4]. The sole exception was Pamina in The Magic Flute at the Grand Théâtre de Genève. Unfortunately, she was ill for the first two performances in Geneva, so the reviews are about her replacement in the role. Even so, this does not make for a significant international career. She has no recording career either. If it is moved into article space, it needs to be trimmed right down, removing all the repertoire lists, pruning the name dropping from the text itself, and tagged for requiring more third party sources. Voceditenore (talk) 07:30, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
Hi Anne, I googled the net but couldn’t find reviews made by international / noted critics about her. I also couldn’t get any news about her performing in any noted opera houses / classical halls or made any significant contribution to opera industry. I am sorry to say that the article looks more like her job resume and to make her profile searchable on the net in English language. If we allowed her “resume” to be published on Wikipedia, I am sure many more new performers will do the same in the future. And when that time comes, what can we do? --Jay (talk) 12:25, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
I am not sure whether this sort of ‘advertising’ is allowed in Wikipedia. If it does, please apologize for my comments above. --Jay (talk) 12:35, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, Voceditenore and Jay. I linked this discussion on the draft, which has now been declined. If you two couldn't find reliable sources, there's no use me trying, so I will leave this one alone for now. Jay, advertising is not allowed, but if an article has substantial information in it, the promotional text can always be rewritten or removed.—Anne Delong (talk) 12:38, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
Thanks Anne. Let’s leave it as draft for the time being. Maybe someday the article can be expanded once she has made more performances internationally preferably in noted opera venues. --Jay (talk) 12:55, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Featured Articles by Brian Boulton

Many of you will already be aware that Brian Boulton has had to retire due to serious health issues. Although not a member of the Opera Project, Brian brought many opera-related articles to Featured Article status and kept an eye on them over the years. Below is a list of those articles. It would help in maintaining their quality, i.e. keeping an eye out for additions/changes like this, if more of us could put them on our watchlists:

Voceditenore (talk) 07:57, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

They are all on my watch list, - I do what I can. I miss him, not only his impeccable writing, but also his willingness to compromise and understanding, most recently shown on the talk of Handel's lost Hamburg operas. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:08, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
May I ask you to also watch Cosima Wagner, The Rite of Spring and (especially this season) Messiah (Handel)? Won't revert a second time on the former, but don't agree that "the conductor" means there's only one conductor ever. - Brian also wrote many articles on Antartic exploration and English historic politicians: much work to keep them all in shape. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:49, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Edit Request: Opera Philadelphia

Hello! Greetings from Opera Philadelphia. We're looking to update our subject page (the latest info being from 2013), but with the conflict of interest that presents, we wanted to reach out to the WikiProject Opera. If anyone is willing and able to update our page, we're happy to provide any information that might be useful. AubreyNagle (talk) 20:49, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Hello Aubrey and welcome! I'd be willing to do this when I return from my trip abroad on 23 November. You can initially make suggestions here and be sure to provide reliable independent sources, e.g. news and magazine articles, unless the update only involves simple, uncontroversial facts. Then we can take it from there via the article's talk page. Best wishes, Voceditenore (talk) 12:38, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
Hi Voceditenore! Thank you in advance for your help, I appreciate it. I believe the only thing factually wrong on the page is that we no longer produce just five fully staged opera productions a year, as we've moved into a season-opening festival model. But below I've listed a few points of interest that could help flesh out our modern history. (If this is too long for this page, I can move it to the subject talk page!)

Opera News turns 80

Opera News turns 80 this coming May and has several interesting articles from its archives available on its website right now. For instance, this article has Renata Scotto and Luciano Pavarotti cooking dinner together for James Beard and George Lang complete with recipes by Scotto and Pavarotti. See here for other entertaining reads. Best.4meter4 (talk) 15:10, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks so much for that, 4meter4. I'm going to squirrel away some of that stuff off-wiki for future use. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 18:38, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Missing women biographies

WikiProject Women in Red wants your biographies...

I've taken the liberty of adding a new task to this project's 'Other ways to help' list (diff), in the form of a list of circa 1500 female opera singers for which we have no biography - missing opera singers. It is part of the Women in Red initiative, aimed at correcting the distressing imbalance of male and female biographies on wikipedia, currently in a ratio of 84:16.

I hope members of this project will consider putting some of their time towards Women in Red. thanks --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:47, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

I was trying to figure out how these names are in Wikidata but not Wikipedia. Then I thought maybe they are in non-English Wikipedias. Is that correct? - kosboot (talk) 01:37, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
Some, maybe. But it is also possible that someone has entered a list of opera singers into wikidata, and that no language wiki has articles on them, Kosboot. Oh, and I'd like to specify for the record that I was listening to Nixon in China when I created the list and posted it here. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:10, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
A great source for lesser-known French singers is: Jean Gourret, Dictionnaire des cantatrices de l'Opéra de Paris (Paris: Albatross, 1987). - kosboot (talk) 04:02, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for that, Tagishsimon! See the section below (Composer/Operas of the month for November or December?) for the follow-up. Voceditenore (talk) 11:21, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
Yup. We seem to be cross-posting ;) --Tagishsimon (talk) 11:23, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
By the way, Tagishsimon, opera singing is perhaps the one place on Wikipedia where there is no imbalance of male and female biographies. In fact the ladies outnumber the gentlemen by quite a lot. We have 2028 biographies of female opera singers compared to 1437 biographies of male opera singers. But we can always use more. Viva la diva! . Voceditenore (talk) 11:45, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
Bravo! A rare corner of Wikipedia indeed. :) --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:31, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Of possible interest

The daily hour-long radio program Exploring Music now offers all of its 170 or so week-long (5 one-hour episodes) programs online to listen to on-demand [5]. A handful of them are free; the rest are accessible with either a $60 year-long subscription, a $10 one-month subscription, or a $5 per five-hour (5-episode) series. It is an excellent combination of very detailed information and music. I used it, for instance, in compiling much of the information on Richard Strauss's post-1932 career. There aren't a lot of opera composers represented, but there is, for example, a two-week (10-episode) program on Verdi (which I haven't fully listened to yet): [6]. There's also a 5-episode program on Wagner's Ring, which is wonderful for both Ring novices and Ring-heads, and which is one of my two favorite Exploring Music series: [7]. (Hmm, now that I look, there's also a 5-episode series on Wagner himself, which I don't think I've heard [8].) My other favorite series is the 10-episode series on Mahler: [9]; Mahler is evidently a particular favorite of Bill McGlaughlin, the host and writer. McGlaughlin is a composer and conductor, and a diligent and encyclopedic researcher, which he belies by his intimate, down-to-earth presentation style. Lastly, the first seven minutes of each of the 850 or so episodes is free to listen to. [10]. -- Softlavender (talk) 09:19, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

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