Talk:2024 Columbia University pro-Palestinian campus occupation

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the 2024 Columbia University pro-Palestinian campus occupation article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1: 3 days

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Further information

The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:

Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.
Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

New York (state): Columbia University

	New York (state) portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York (state), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of New York on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York (state)Wikipedia:WikiProject New York (state)Template:WikiProject New York (state)New York (state) articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Columbia University.

New York City Low‑importance

	New York City portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York City, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of New York City-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York CityWikipedia:WikiProject New York CityTemplate:WikiProject New York CityNew York City articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Palestine Low‑importance

	Palestine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Israel Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Project Israel To Do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles.
Categorization : Diffuse articles from Category:Companies of Israel.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page.
Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration.
Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel.
Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah
See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Wikipedia.
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data.
Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes.
Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention.
Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Wikipedia requested maps in Israel.
NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
Photo : Add pictures to articles in Wikipedia requested photographs in Israel.
Stubs : See Israel stubs.
Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
Other :
- Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary.
- Merge Nahal Rafiah (draft, heb) into Nahal as requested by Wikipedia authority

Israel Palestine Collaboration

This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration, a collaborative, bipartisan effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. For guidelines and a participants list see the project page. See also {{Palestine-Israel enforcement}}, the ArbCom-authorized discretionary sanctions, the log of blocks and bans, and Working group on ethnic and cultural edit wars. You can discuss the project at its talk page.Israel Palestine CollaborationWikipedia:WikiProject Israel Palestine CollaborationTemplate:WikiProject Israel Palestine CollaborationIsrael Palestine Collaboration articles

Higher education

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Higher education, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of higher education, universities, and colleges on Wikipedia. Please visit the project page to join the discussion, and see the project's article guideline for useful advice.Higher educationWikipedia:WikiProject Higher educationTemplate:WikiProject Higher educationHigher education articles

Politics: American Low‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by American politics task force (assessed as Low-importance).

"caused by anti Zionist sentiment"[edit]

In the infobox the first cause mentioned is antizionism. Wouldn't this be better phrased as anti-genocide and anti-apartheid? 2A02:A03F:6617:9501:F1DE:1112:C6A5:8140 (talk) 19:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No. Do you know what genocide is? I guess not.. bc there's no objective way to claim what happens in Gaza is a genocide.

Same goes to the apartheid argument- how is it possible to claim apartheid if up until the war (initiated by Hamas) there were no Israelis in Gaza (no politicians nor army).

I don't mean to insult you, but it's very important that Wikipedia will remain a source of reliable information, and not rewritten by ignorants (which again, it's not an insult, just a request for you to educate yourself before editing a topic you're ignorant of). 2A0D:6FC2:4450:FA00:3F2E:305C:4A5C:D7F (talk) 08:25, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

‘Yes, it is genocide’ in Gaza says Israeli professor of Holocaust studies Iskandar323 (talk) 19:02, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems quite reasonable that a movement could call itself “anti-genocide” even where there is no real genocide. The question here should not be “are the protesters right to call it a genocide?”, but “how is the protest most accurately characterised?” — HTGS (talk) 06:46, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should write about what specific reliable sources say about these protests and their causes. Although question of genocide and apartheid are connected to the larger pro-Palestinian protests, I haven't seen that naming them as such specifically is warranted. BaronRudor (talk) 13:27, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Anti-Zionism" basically covers all of that Evaporation123 (talk) 20:55, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia being the mouthpiece of american imperialism stands with the state of Israel unequivocally. So, everything will be framed in a very specific way that promotes their agenda. 2A02:85F:E058:1000:F13B:9676:7FF6:7B7E (talk) 17:29, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 April 2024[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Put the College of William and Mary into the map of universities in protest as blue. It has had many Israel-Hamas war protests, including a disruption organized by W&M SJP of a meeting with former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates:

https://flathatnews.com/2023/11/06/finding-community-amidst-conflict-israel-palestine-war-sparks-student-protests-vigils-fundraisers/

https://flathatnews.com/2024/01/23/cvrp-places-students-for-justice-in-palestine-on-probation-campus-organizations-emphasize-need-for-safe-spaces/ Raginbakin (talk) 04:46, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: This may not be obvious, but the source for the map isn't part of this page - it is an excerpt from this article, so requests to change it should be made on that talk page.

These sources discuss protests during and prior to January 2024. However, the caption under the map says it shows campuses with protests in April 2024. Unless there have been more recent demonstrations William and Mary shouldn't be added. Jamedeus (talk) 21:17, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Facilities worker they took hostage[edit]

https://www.columbiaspectator.com/news/2024/04/30/dozens-occupy-hamilton-hall-as-pro-palestinian-protests-spread-across-campus/ https://www.foxnews.com/us/columbia-university-facilities-worker-speaks-terror-takeover-held-hostage

"A Facilities worker who was in the building exited the building at around 12:40 a.m., after shouting at the protesters occupying the Hamilton lobby to let him leave. As he left Hamilton, he yelled at the crowd, “They held me hostage.” 79.176.106.171 (talk) 18:12, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fox News is unreliable and the Columbia Spectator page is just buffering for me - maybe their servers have been swamped with traffic, so hard to assess. If true, it would echo 1968, when the dean was held captive. Iskandar323 (talk) 18:17, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

there are picture of them attacking the Facilities worker in the article.... 79.176.106.171 (talk) 10:14, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

it should be noted, they swamped building for occupation at 12:30 AM, as per columbia spectator article.

That means they kidnapped the worker for 10 minutes. User:Sawerchessread (talk) 18:24, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

facilities member and students section in the article https://bwog.com/2024/04/live-updates-gaza-solidarity-encampment-day-13/ 128.59.178.128 (talk) 18:26, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So they claimed to be taken hostage, and then other people who were studying or otherwise occupied in the building just left absolutely normally 20 minutes later? I'm not sure it's possible to buy into the level of claimed duress here. Iskandar323 (talk) 18:58, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The facilities person was certainly under duress, but as for the students, they were a part of one of the school's newspapers according to students around campus. 209.2.225.92 (talk) 20:01, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"they kidnapped the worker for 10 minutes"

well, even kidnaping for 10 minutes is an illegal activity.

"your right ends where the right of others begin"

what they have done called Imprisonment, you should look it up... 79.176.106.171 (talk) 10:20, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

lol agreed.

restaurant kidnapped me when they kept me waiting for ten minutes for food and wouldnt let me leave. sure they said i had to pay, but they didnt have the food out yet! 2600:6C5A:587F:4532:6555:9571:24F9:D58D (talk) 03:05, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 May 2024[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Israel-Gaza war 197.35.224.149 (talk) 04:50, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. EvergreenFir (talk) 04:57, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cherrypicking[edit]

Interesting how the "antisemitic" incidents are highlighted, but not the violent attacks and racism by pro-Israel mobs. Makeandtoss (talk) 09:47, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest making a new section mentioning the pro-Israeli violence and islamophobia so we can balance it out Abo Yemen ✉ 10:00, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bad Wording on[edit]

in the opening pargraph it is written:

The arrests marked the first time Columbia allowed police to suppress campus protests since the 1968 demonstrations against the Vietnam War.

the current phrasing puts the blame for suppressing the riots on Colombia for "allowing" the police to come, and not for the student who copied the Hamilton hall.

was there another time student broke into Hamilton hall since 1968 but police was not allowed to suppress the riots? 79.176.106.171 (talk) 10:12, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See making edit requests. Edit requests most likely to succeed are those that are 'Specific, Uncontroversial, Necessary, Sensible' per WP:EDITXY. Your should include your proposed wording with the justification for the change. But about the justification, where is the blame in the statement? I don't think it is there. I think you are probably adding information to the statement that is not present. I don't know, but perhaps Columbia has to invite the police onto the campus because it is private property. Sean.hoyland (talk) 10:21, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 May 2024 (2)[edit]

It is requested that an edit be made to the extended-confirmed-protected article at 2024 Columbia University pro-Palestinian campus occupation. (edit · history · last · links · protection log)

This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".

The edit may be made by any extended confirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{EEp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

Under "Injuries: Multiple protesters exposed to tear gas." There was no tear gas used. Use of tear gas is against New York City policy, even during civil unrest. Injuries were from concussion/stun grenades and pepper spray.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/04/30/nyregion/columbia-protests-college https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/1/new-york-city-police-enter-columbia-campus-as-gaza-protest-escalates https://abc7ny.com/columbia-university-protests-protesters-occupy-hamilton-hall-hours-after-encampment-deadline/14744812/ Jeszie L (talk) 20:03, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox "Parties" and New York Hostage and Missing Families Forum[edit]

In the infobox, where it lists the "Parties" involved, New York Hostage and Missing Families Forum shouldn't necessarily be listed under the "Pro-Israel" section. New York Hostage and Missing Families Forum wasn't counterprotesting the Gaza Solidarity Encampment per se. They're a group comprised of New York family members of Israeli hostages held in Gaza, and the Forum held a rally on a street outside of the Columbia University campus on April 26. New York Hostage and Missing Families Forum are "Pro-Israel" in that the hostages are Israeli citizens, some of the family members are Israeli Americans, and some of the rally participants carried Israeli flags. The Forum are pro-hostage release and anti-Hamas. But some of the family members, and even the hostages themselves, are anti-Netanyahu, pro-peace, and in solidarity with the Gazan people that are suffering. In fact, the Hostage and Missing Families Forum in both Israel and the US have been very critical of the Israeli government. And in the source cited in this Wikipedia article, it said one of the Forum rally participants who is a Columbia student said that "Jews and Israelis want a ceasefire." The student was quoted as saying, "I'm reminding my fellow classmates something that they may have overlooked. In order for there to be a ceasefire, all 133 hostages need to be home." [1] So it really depends on what is meant by "Pro-Israel". I think for clarity, maybe it would better to put New York Hostage and Missing Families Forum in a separate section titled "Other Groups". Their website says they are "volunteer-based and laser-focused on bringing the hostages back home to their families".[2] I didn't want to make any edits without bringing it up here first. Serenity9096 (talk) 07:14, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I just realized I'm not eligible to edit this Wikipedia article but I can edit the Talk page. Serenity9096 (talk) 07:26, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Missing protestors demands for amnesty[edit]

it is written that's Colombia university offered partial amnesty but it's not written that it was part of protestors demands.

My suggestion is add:

"Another key demand of the movement at Columbia is amnesty for students who have been punished (including with suspensions) by the university for their activism around Palestine."

Or:

"At Columbia, the protests have been organized by a coalition of over 100 student groups called Columbia University Apartheid Divest (CUAD). The group has been seeking three main demands from the university: divestment from companies supporting Israel’s government, greater transparency in university finances, and amnesty for students and faculty disciplined over the protests. " Source supporting this argument

https://indianexpress.com/article/world/us-college-protests-columbia-university-arrests-all-you-need-to-know-9300397/#google_vignette https://apnews.com/article/student-protest-gaza-war-arrest-amnesty-ae235703d6a9b99114078fca13a530a0

https://www.leftvoice.org/columbia-students-occupy-hamilton-hall-down-with-repression-and-for-full-divestment-and-amnesty/ 212.29.194.49 (talk) 12:36, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New WSJ article not featured[edit]

[3] This is a very detailed, RS that is not featured here. It talks about how "Activist Groups Trained Students for Months Before Campus Protests" at Columbia. Also how "Left-wing groups and veteran demonstrators provided guidance and support before rise of pro-Palestinian encampments."

These are quotes from the article. This is WSJ's investigative journalism printed in the Education section and not an OpEd.

No idea why this source is being ignored.

2601:19E:427E:5BB0:ACCD:7D1:EFC:6513 (talk) 03:57, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not exactly groundbreaking that national organizations are assisting with this EvergreenFir (talk) 04:24, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 May 2024[edit]

It is requested that an edit be made to the extended-confirmed-protected article at 2024 Columbia University pro-Palestinian campus occupation. (edit · history · last · links · protection log)

This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".

The edit may be made by any extended confirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{EEp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

I whould like to change the date. The protests are definitely still ongoing, and have not ended. Blackmamba31248 (talk) 17:53, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 May 2024[edit]

It is requested that an edit be made to the extended-confirmed-protected article at 2024 Columbia University pro-Palestinian campus occupation. (edit · history · last · links · protection log)

This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".

The edit may be made by any extended confirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{EEp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

See above for my previous post on May 3rd about: Infobox "Parties" and New York Hostage and Missing Families Forum. [4] I am not extended confirmed and would like to request the following edit/change: In the Infobox "Parties" section, please move New York Hostage and Missing Families Forum from the subsection titled "Pro-Israel counterprotesters" to a new subsection titled "Other Groups". Thank you. Serenity9096 (talk) 23:31, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]