Talk:Alejandro Jodorowsky

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CUFF[edit]

added some details about the 2000 Chicago Underground Film Festival --Andymussell 04:10, 24 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thumbnail is broken. countryhacker 02:44, 14 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation[edit]

will someone tell me how to pronounce his name* — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.23.64.89 (talk) 21:14, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Aleh-HAN-dro Yoh-doh-ROV-ski" ... discospinster 21:25, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Discospinster!!! I've wondered for a long time whether the J in his last name should be pronounced as an "H" because he did a lot of his work in Spanish or as a "Y", because it's not an Hispanic surname. I went to this article for the purpose of finding this out. I've put a note on pronunciaiton in the article. Should we use the International Phonetic Alphabet symbols for this?Smiloid 08:09, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree. I'm from Spain. I listened Jodorowsky pronounce his own surname several times, and the "J" in his last name has a sound similar to the "H" of "house", "horse" or "her". On the other hand I listened the pronunciation "Y" in non Spanish speakers, but it´s not correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.103.32.200 (talk) 15:42, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In Jodorowski's native Chile, his last name is pronounced with an initial /x/ (the "ch" in German "Bach". Never with initial /j/ (the "y" in English "you"). Steve Fishboy 05:34, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just a couple things regarding the IPA:

  • The grapheme "d" in "Alejandro" should probably be represented as /d/ instead of /ð/ -- assimilation to /n/ triggers this allophone. I notice /ð/ was dentalized, but the point here is that the allophone is not fricative, but rather a stop.
  • Interesting that the "w" in his last name was interpreted as /v/. In Spanish this would normally be /β/¹, but in Chile [v] is a very common allophone of /b/. In this particular context, though, it's quite lenis. (¹Sorry, can't find the similar IPA glyph at the bottom of the page... had to resort to Greek).

Steve Fishboy 05:36, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

what's the big mystery about pronouncing his name? There are plenty of Spanish names spelled with J which sounds like H, Jose and Jesus come to mind first. In fact the English page should have his name spelled as Khodorowsky, if Khrushchev to be any indication. discospinster please restrain yourself from furnishing erroneous information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.127.161.132 (talk) 08:12, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. [ɑː.lɛ.ˈxɑːn.drɒ jɒ.dɒ.ˈrɒv.skiː] is the normal English pronunciation of their name or is an approach to Spanish pronunciation? In Spanish should be [ɑː.lɛ.ˈxɑːn.dɾo xo.ðo.ˈɾobs.kiː] and in English must have /ɹ/s. Bye. Lin linao (talk) 07:55, 25 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think in Spanish it's [a.le.ˈxan.dɾo xo.ðo.ˈɾobs.ki]. Lautraro (talk) 16:54, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Star Wars[edit]

"Many close to the project claim that the set designs later turned up in Star Wars" Shouldn't this be Alien? Moebius was never involved in designing anything for Star Wars. stasis101 11:46, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It was Dune actually, later done by D. Lynch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.82.26.216 (talk) 20:37, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Film and book titles : In italics or not?[edit]

There should be consistency on this, across all wiki, on esthetic grounds. The Gnome 19:59, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Birthplace: Tocopilla or Iquique?[edit]

This article currently gives Jodorowsky's birthplace as Tocopilla. However, elsewhere (e.g. IMDb) it's said to be Iquique. Is there an authoritative source for the former? PhiDeck 23:42, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He was born in Tocopilla, near Iquique, as is his own memories he wrote. Ariel — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.82.26.216 (talk) 20:35, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Producer-to-be of Dune[edit]

The name of Jerome Seydoux is given as the producer-to-be of Dune. However other sources suggest that it was Jerome's brother Michel Seydoux who agreed to sponsor this project. See Dune: Book to Screen timeline [1]

Murdochrules (talk) 18:46, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Over-self /super-egp?[edit]

Does the "over-self" mentioned in the article refer to the super-ego, or is it a different concept? 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * (talk) 13:18, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

VHS factoid: At the time of writing, the Wiki entry says: "Until 2007, Fando y Lis and Santa sangre were the only Jodorowsky's works available on DVD. Neither El Topo nor The Holy Mountain were available on videocassette or DVD in the United States or the United Kingdom, due to ownership disputes with distributor Allen Klein." I own a 114 minute version, which "contains some genital fogging", released on the Visual Film label (PAL VSL 10072). So I made an alteration. Graham Barnfield —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.92.194.11 (talk) 08:34, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Angel Claw[edit]

   Angel Claw / Moebius & Jodorowsky. -- New York : Nantier
   Beall Minoustchine, 1996. -- 1 v. : ill. ; 34 cm. --
   (Eurotica). -- Griffes d'Ange, in English. -- Translated by
   Thierry Nantier. -- "Adults only". -- Genre: Erotic. --
   Call no.: PN6747.G5G713 1996

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.163.199.129 (talk) 08:41, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Production of Dune[edit]

This statement: "The music would be composed by Peter Gabriel". Is completely different from this one: "The music would be composed by Magma, Henry Cow and Karlheinz Stockhausen or Pink Floyd". - See Dune Which one is correct ?
Krenakarore (talk) 19:37, 2 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Now it says "The music would be composed by Pink Floyd, Magma,[28] Henry Cow, a.P.A.t.T.. and Karlheinz Stockhausen." a.P.A.t.T.? Really? In the mid 1970s? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.208.44.162 (talk) 11:30, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

adding a 2010 section about his new films and breaking up the 2000-present section[edit]

Should the 2000 decades be broken up into 2000, and a section on 2010+ detailing The Dance of Reality and El Topo sequel which are in production now; basically the 2000s section about his attempts to return to filmmaking and a 2010 section about him actually returning to filmmaking with these 2 films. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiepdiax818 (talk • contribs) 05:07, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Birthday[edit]

I'm changing the date of his birthday, from February 7th to February 17th. I also added some sources. Apparently, it was wrong since the creation of the article. The article needs better sources on this subject. It seems correct on wikipedia in spanish, but the french version notes conflicting sources.--Itzcuauhtli (talk) 19:24, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I note the English language entry on Britannica gives both the 17th and the 7th of February. Cuddy2977 (talk) 12:25, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Prullansky[edit]

Just saw the recent edit, and just for confirmation, I'd like to know, is his last name really Prullansky? I saw it in the Spanish Wikipedia page as well, but I'm just wondering, does anyone have sources to confirm the edit? Thank you. I'm not there. Message me! 01:30, 9 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"Acid Western"[edit]

"Acid Western" does not equal "Psychedelic Western". It's not a catch-all term referring to far-out variations on the standard western tropes. That's like saying Film Noir includes all black-and-white WWII war films.

I'm putting this here instead of changing the entry because I have not seen El Topo, but nothing I've read or heard about it suggest it has anything to do with the idea of the Acid Western. This is a call for someone else who has seen it and can confirm the shoe does not fit to please be in a hurry to revoke the category. Danwroy (talk) 01:19, 28 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Merge from Psychomagic (psychotherapy)[edit]

This merge was proposed at AfD. Comments before closure listed below (note 'merge and delete' is not a valid option): --Michig (talk) 09:28, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Merge and redirect to Alejandro Jodorowsky. MrBill3 (talk) 01:10, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk • mail) 03:04, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Behavioural science-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 03:10, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to Alejandro Jodorowsky and delete. Does not warrant a separate article. An article about this as a form of psychotherapy would require far better sourcing than a few books by Jodorowsky himself. Described as one of his activities is about right. Gpc62 (talk) 07:25, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to Alejandro Jodorowsky. No need to merge - there's already mention of this self-coined term in that article. The DAB page Psychomagic may also need to be modified, dependant upon the outcome of this !vote. Regards from the UK. Nick Moyes (talk) 00:05, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete No need to redirect as I very much doubt anyone will be looking for an article on this "therapy" anyway. Last I looked, Jodorowsky was a film director, not a therapist or a scientist. This is self-indulgent twaddle. Famousdog (c) 11:40, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect - it's WP:CHEAP, and there is no alternative target. TigraanClick here to contact me 17:09, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to Alejandro Jodorowsky#Psychomagic. Sources exist but all the one I found are in the context of Jodorowsky and it is better discussed there. --Michig (talk) 09:52, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect adequately covered in this article already, none of the refs were third party. MrBill3 (talk) 12:59, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Jodorowsky pronunciation[edit]

In my view, the only good source for the pronunciation of personal names are the bearers themselves and dictionaries. In the case of Jodorowsky, we only have his native Spanish.

If we want to transcribe second-hand pronunciations we might as well add /ˌhɒdəˈrɒfski/ too, since thats what the presenter uses in the linked source, but where exactly do we draw the line? Are we excluding pronunciations with an initial /j/ and /aʊ/ for ⟨ow⟩ because they're not "close enough" to the Spanish pronunciation? Why not just let the reader approximate it themselves from Jodorowsky's own pronunciation? --maczkopeti (talk) 08:03, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The bearers themselves are good sources for the English IPA transcriptions used in the English Wikipedia only if they are native speakers. Jodorowsky is not a native/near-native English speaker and thus not a reliable source for the correct pronunciation of his own name in English. Native English-speaking media are commonly used on Wikipedia as reliable sources for the common English pronunciation of famous foreign proper names. Wikipedia just reports what reliable sources say; Wikipedia is not prescriptive (as per WP:NOR). Let us include every English pronunciation that can be reliably sourced. --Omnipaedista (talk) 08:23, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, I would include a pronunciation from a US source as well, since it might be /ˌhoʊdəˈrɒfski/ there, as you initially added. I think it's more prescriptive to have an English pronunciation from only one English variant, especially when the subject has no strong ties to either. --maczkopeti (talk) 08:52, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
A U.S. source is a good idea. I'll look into it. Thanks for your comment. --Omnipaedista (talk) 09:01, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nicolas Winding Refn (near-native U.S. English speaker) and Devin Faraci (native U.S. English speaker) pronounce it as US: /ˌjoʊdəˈrɒfski/ in the first few minutes of Jodorowsky's Dune. --Omnipaedista (talk) 14:35, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Refn says /-ˈroʊ-/, Faraci says something like [-ɹəski]—I can't quite get what the vowel is but I don't hear a /f/ at all, it's still possible that underlyingly /f/ is there but coalesced with /s/, but he doesn't enunciate it enough to warrant us to transcribe it with any amount of verifiability—in any case definitely neither of them say /-ˈrɒfski/. I've also heard people say /ˌdʒoʊ-/ and /-ˈraʊski/ among others. I don't think there is a preferred variant and I don't think we should be adding English transcriptions unless we find a source that helps us ascertain the anglicized form preferred by the majority of English speakers or by Jodorowsky himself, if there is any. Nardog (talk) 15:27, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Here are examples of an American (who worked with Jodorowsky) saying /ˌjoʊdəˈraʊski/ and a Briton saying /ˌdʒoʊdəˈrɒski/ (at 2:11). Nardog (talk) 15:48, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Your corrections are right. I'd suggest we include at least one UK and at least one US English pronunciation, since his name has been "naturalized" in both countries by US/UK film critics. We could choose the most reliable and clearly enunciated instances at first. If we get across new good sources with alternative pronunciations, we can add them as well. A footnote may be created to avoid cluttering (cf. Johann_Sebastian_Bach#cite_note-2). --Omnipaedista (talk) 15:58, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
But what justifies treating them as regional variants, as opposed to individual preferences? The distribution of alternative pronunciations is clearly dispersed regardless of the variety of English they speak (save for /ɒ/ vs. /oʊ/), as seen above. Nardog (talk) 17:15, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The propensity of a British speaker to use /x/~/h/ instead of /dʒ/ is one example (cf. UK /ˈhʊntə/ vs US /ˈdʒʊntə/ for "junta"); /ɒ/ vs. /oʊ/ is a second one (cf. UK /ˈlɒɡɒs/ vs US /ˈloʊgoʊs/ for "logos"). The distribution is dispersed, indeed. But certain propensities are dialect-specific and somewhat predictable. --Omnipaedista (talk) 19:02, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Those are characteristics of the dialects, not of their pronunciation of the lexical item Jodorowsky. We've demonstrated that there is variation within each variety. It's not our job to make predictions. Nardog (talk) 00:49, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

My problem is this: What makes these pronunciations reliable? For all we know they could be just mere guesses that the reader themselves could also make. At this point, we're just cluttering the opening with potentially erroneous pronunciations. --maczkopeti (talk) 08:05, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

We've demonstrated that there is variation within each variety, indeed. We did not predict anything really; that would constitute WP:OR. We've documented a British pronunciation by well-known British film critic Jonathan Ross (UK: /ˌxɒdəˈrɒfski/) and an American pronunciation by well-known American film director Dan O'Bannon who was a colleague of Jodorowsky (US: /ˌjoʊdəˈraʊski/). I frankly cannot think we can find anything more authoritative than these two sources. Then I got asked what justifies treating them as regional variants. And then, for the sake of discussion, I said that /h/ vs. /dʒ/ and /ɒ/ vs. /oʊ/ are sort of predictable as regional variations. You may disagree that this retrodiction is relevant to the discussion, but the fact remains: Ross is British, and O'Bannon is American. And the fact that we were able to easily find sources is a proof that Jodorowsky's name is commonly used in English. We just have to include authoritative samples only. --Omnipaedista (talk) 11:31, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Being a well-known critic or a colleague of Jodorowsky doesn't necessarily make them authoritative on pronunciations. A similar case of this is Djimon Hounsou. For a long time, the pronunciation was given as /ˈhɒnsuː/, citing Forvo.com, his co-stars (including Leonardo DiCaprio) and an interviewer. Turns out Hounsou actually pronounces his surname as /ˈuːnsuː/. I think this proves my initial point pretty well. --maczkopeti (talk) 12:29, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I would have to disagree. (1) Nobody mentioned Forvo here. Forvo is a user-generated site. (2) Hounsou is a near-native English speaker, Jodorowsky is not. So we have to rely on sources other than Jodorowsky himself (unless Jodorowsky steps up to proclaim that a certain pronunciation of his name in English is one he disapproves of; but even then variants are relevant — cf. Benjamin Jowett ("...Jowett (here usually pronounced to rhyme with 'poet' ... modern variant /ˈdʒaʊɪt/") and Stephen Cole Kleene ("Although his last name is commonly pronounced /ˈkliːniː/ KLEE-nee or /ˈkliːn/ kleen, Kleene himself pronounced it /ˈkleɪniː/ KLAY-nee.")). --Omnipaedista (talk) 12:40, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The very concept of "erroneous pronunciation" is prescriptive. There are only notable and non-notable variations. Variations only need to be well-sourced. --Omnipaedista (talk) 12:45, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Again, those are pronunciations by those particular speakers, and we have no reason to make them represent the entire varieties of English. Although they may be more authoritative than some others, they are not the authority, and the very fact there is discrepancy between those two as well as within each variety simply makes it impossible for us to give a transcription for English, be it RP or GA. Nardog (talk) 14:01, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I can remove the "UK, US" variety indications. "Intra-varietal" discrepancies exist both in common nouns like "junta" and "logos" and proper nouns like "Jowett" and "Kleene." The only argument against the inclusion of an IPA transcription would be the lack of sufficient reliable material to document the pronunciation. Such material has been found, though, and cited. --Omnipaedista (talk) 15:31, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
With your latest edit now we're letting two people's pronunciation represent the English pronunciation as a whole, not just British or American. But we've found that there are other variants with at least /ˌdʒ-/, /-ˈroʊski/, and /-ˈrɒski/. There is simply so much variation among speakers that to handpick a couple speakers as representative would be disingenuous of us. Again, however close to the subject or reputable they may be, they don't represent the subject nor the entire English-speaking population who have Jodorowsky in the lexicon. Nardog (talk) 02:11, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You seem to assume that if we indicate a single pronunciation as "US," that would make the reader think that this is the only US pronunciation out there. I cannot see why this is the case. Logos gives "US: /ˈloʊɡoʊs/". As a reader, I do not think that this is the only American pronunciation in use. In fact, if I consult a good source about US pronunciation (namely the Random House Unabridged Dictionary), I will come across intra-varietal discrepancies ("[loh-gos, -gohs, log-os]") not mentioned on Wikipedia due to editorial negligence/choice. --Omnipaedista (talk) 15:42, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
A transcription in the lead doesn't necessarily indicate that it is the only pronunciation in that dialect or language, but it does indicate that it is the predominant or most common one, or the one preferred or prescribed by the article's subject. But we have no reason to believe /ˌxɒdəˈrɒfski/ or /ˌjoʊdəˈraʊski/ are, and if we included all variants we've found, it would be too much clutter and of no help to the readers.
Two of us have opined that we shouldn't include English transcriptions. If you still believe we should, I suggest you start an RfC. Nardog (talk) 13:17, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

not a psychologist/psychoanalyst[edit]

In the introductory paragraph he is listed as having worked as a psychologist and psychoanalyst; both are professions which need accreditation, however later in the article it's mentioned he quit his psychology studies after 2 years. Honestly, that introductory list of what he's worked as is comically long. It should state what he's known for, instead of being an exhaustive list of all his attempts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.100.42.152 (talk) 06:38, 6 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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