Talk:Bernard Smith (footballer)

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Sources[edit]

Conversation copied from User talk:Rssrufff]] and User talk:Struway2 by Struway2 (talk) 11:46, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again. I've undone your changes to Mr Smith, pending the supply of a reliable published source. The story of his Birmingham career seems likely, if a bit exaggerated - Randle played several games, not just one, before Smith took over - but it does need referencing. Please put your changes back if you have a reliable (i.e not a blog, fansite or personal website) source for them. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 12:46, 30 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there - thanks for getting in touch, and sorry I've been a while in replying. Totally understand undoing the changes - it was very much a first attempt at changing something. I have identified sources for all of the facts I inserted, with the exception of the story over Randle and Cringan being injured in their first games. The game against Derby was Birmingham's fifth that season, so it is not entirely likely they both only played once. Is the best way to proceed to send you the sourcing, or to redo the changes citing references? Thanks for your help, Rssrufff — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rssrufff (talk • contribs) 11:34, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, and well done with finding sources. Best if you redo your changes and cite your references, the referencing for beginners page might help with the formatting if you need it, but don't worry about getting it perfect. According to Matthews' Complete Record ISBN 978-1-85983-010-9, Cringan played left back in the first and Randle in the next four, Smith coming in against Derby which was their sixth of the season. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 12:03, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for the confusion, but I should have pointed out that there may be a bit of a problem with the links. The birth date of 1907 for Bernard comes from the 1911 census - http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/results4.aspx?x=52157731 - but from there it's a bit complicated. www.thisisannouncements.co.uk/5714585?s_source=clmi_innl shows that Bernard was married to a Mary Smith and died in 1988; www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=164608086&d=bmd_1293526012 shows it is the Bernard Smith we are after. That may or may not be too complicated to place on the page - what would you recommend? In terms of the Cringan/Randle story, it comes from a contemporaneous newspaper article, but from an unidentifed paper. I can send you a scanned copy (over talk or email), but how would that be shown on the page? Thanks, Rssrufff — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rssrufff (talk • contribs) 20:49, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As to Mr Smith's debut, I've re-added as much of your content as I can verify quickly from newspaper archives. As far as I can tell, there's a bit of journalistic licence in your newspaper article: they've invented Randle being injured in his first game, for instance. Randle definitely played 4 games before Smith came in, and the Daily Express of 16 September previewing the Derby game just says "Birmingham think so highly of this 11st. 6lb. boy (i.e Smith) that they have chosen him in preference to Randle or Liddell at left back", but seeing as Liddell had retired by then, Randle might well have been injured and they wouldn't have noticed :-)

If you want to add any more stuff from your article that you believe to be true, please do. If it's an old story reproduced in a more recent publication, to add a reference, just put as many details as you have of what it is and where you got it from, between <ref>...</ref> tags. If it's an old newspaper clipping, it's more problematic, but you could just put <ref>Newspaper clipping, no details available</ref>, and if anyone wanted to see it, you could upload a scan.

As to the personal details, do you have documented reason to believe this is the same Bernard Smith as married Mary Harriman in 1932? If there's too much detail to swamp the article with, explain the detail here on the talk page, put a link in the article as described above and add "See talk page for further details". cheers, Struway2 (talk) 11:46, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]