Talk:Carlos the Jackal/Archive 1

Archive 1

Initial text

Carlos was given the 'Jackal' moniker when the international press siezed upon the fact that the Frederick Forsyth novel The Day of the Jackal was found among his belongings. It was later revealed that the book belonged to his roommate, an innocent civilian who had no idea that Carlos was a terrorist. However, the name stuck. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.27.202.81 (talk) 11:10, 22 January 2003 (UTC)

Shift from NPOV to Disputed

I have changed the template added on 2nd April '05 without a comment as it seems relatively good for NPOV but there are the above factual disputes L-Bit 09:01, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Former terrorist?

Should the article say former terrorist? That doesn't sound encyclopediac. It also implies he's given it up, which I think is a suspicious claim to make, considering he's in prison. Was Tookie a murderer or a former murderer?

Whether Tookie was a murderer or former murderer is completely POV. Although you could base the claim that he hadn't killed anyone in over 30 years. Plus, he's dead. So technically, he can't still be a murderer. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.164.53.89 (talk) 20:35, 14 January 2007 (UTC).

Guess that would make Tookie the late-murderer.--Degen Earthfast (talk) 21:21, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

OP is right - Former terrorist sounds like he's handed in his notice, or changed his ways. Convicted Terrorist is probably better. Monkeyspearfish 13:50, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

guerrilla warfare school in Havana?

if I remember it right, yallop found out this is just another misinformation about the myth "Carlos".

Harvey Kushner, Encyclopedia of Terrorism, pg 321. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 21:33, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Islam?

Why is he listed as a convert to Islam when it doesnt say anything in the article? Tec15 17:17, 18 April 2006 (UTC))

Because he converted to Islam. Wikipedia is extremely bad on religious issues or mentioning the religious histories of people. Because of that it failing to mention his conversion doesn't mean much. If you need sources on his conversion see the following links.

• BBC on "Carlos" praising Osama
• The Age on his marriage, mentions his conversion
• Sunday Times of South Africa

I think he's also a former Catholic, in that his mother baptized him and sent him to Mass, but I couldn't find enough support for that.--T. Anthony 09:16, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Bruce Willis movie "The Jackal"

Why is this noted on this page? The movie was based on a character in the book (as per the note on this page), not the subject of this page, Carlos. So what's the relevance? Sans objection, in three days I will remove this note from this page. (It is already noted on the appropriate page about the book.) --BakerQ 15:55, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Move

I've moving the page to reflect the more widespread name used to refer to this man, Carlos the Jackal. --Irishpunktom\^talk 15:12, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

If a move is done, should it point to "Carlos the Jackal" instead of "Carlos the jackal" (lowercase 'j')?

Secondly, I feel that the name of the page should remain his own first name, with a redirect from "Carlos the J(j)ackal" pages. (Unsigned comment by User:Bakerq)

I think the article should be named "Carlos the Jackal", not "Carlos the jackal". The upper case "J" is pretty well universal, including throughout this very article. Probably this is just a typo, but I'll wait for a day or two in case anyone objects. If nobody does object, I will move it to Carlos the Jackal.--A bit iffy

Agreed & moved, but need help fixing double redirects. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 07:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

It's a proper name either way you look at it so of course it would be capitalized. It's like not capitalizing the name "God" because you don't like Christianity. Who cares? You're still referring to a specific name.

Robert Ludlum

Carlos the Jackal has *nothing* whatsoever to do woth any of Robert Ludlum's "Bourne" books so i took it out. 211.31.12.195 08:48, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

-- How do you figure? He (Ilich Ramirez Sanchez) is named specifically in the preface to "The Bourne Identity". 66.130.14.63 04:02, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

-- His name was used for a major character in the books. I actually didn't know he was a real person until I read about his appeal in the news!

"Carlos the Jackal"

I moved the page from "Ilich Ramírez Sánchez" to "Carlos the Jackal" because he's far better known by the latter name and according to Wikipedia policies, we have to use the most common name as title for the article. bogdan 17:51, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Cribcage 17:52, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Wife or Fiancee

At one point in the article it says he is engaged, in another it says wife. Anyone know which it is? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.72.211.224 (talk) 21:05, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I followed the linked citation and it says they're not married: "Coutant-Peyre does not pretend it was legal, in civil terms." I've changed the article to say they're just engaged. CSWarren (talk) 22:29, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Intro

I changed "self-proclaimed leftist revolutionary and mercenary" to just "self-proclaimed leftist revolutionary"; I just finished reading Follain's biography, and in one of the final chapters Carlos is quoted as explicitly calling himself a revolutionary but not a mercenary. --AdamSommerton (talk) 21:39, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Hans-Joachim Klein and the RAF

As far as I know, and as is mentioned in German Wikipedia (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Joachim_Klein), Hans-Joachim Klein was a member of the RZ, not the RAF / Baader Meinhoff Group. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pvanheus (talk • contribs) 18:47, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

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'Self proclaimed' left revolutionary

This sounds derogatory, and unless there are sources where he proclaims himself as such and somehow he is denied this title by some kind of left revolutionary authority on this, I can't see the reason for using this as the summary title of this person. Some more NPOV descriptions should be used that can be proven, like 'leftist', 'terrorist', 'bomber'. It's a matter of style, right now it looks ironic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.131.157.41 (talk) 09:59, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I took it out of the entry. I don't really think it qualifies as a weasel-word, but it's frivolous to the introduction. He is a "leftist revolutionary", by virtue of the revolutionary organizations he was a part of. Lorpius Prime (talk) 06:54, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

"Leftist" is a frivolous descriptor anyhow. From his actions, he's a nihilist reactionary, from his terminology he's leftist non-liberal, and so on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.205.24.244 (talk) 00:58, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

New Trial Section

This section seems a little sparse. In it's current form it detracts from the article. It needs to be expanded and worked into the flow of the article. I am not that familiar with the topic. I will try to do some research on the topic, but at this time I am currently very busy with school stuff, so if anyone else would like to try and epand and inte4grate the section, feel free to do so. StarsTrainsAndRandomThings (talk) 05:07, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Frenchmen's Bidding

Many people think that he did knowingly or unknowingly french government's dirty work and when he became a liability, he was locked up. Nothing new, Osama himself is an ex American agent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.1.88.99 (talk) 13:22, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Osama is an "ex-American agent"? Can you support that allegation? If you mean the so-called CIA funding, I have news for you: Never Happened!!! The CIA provided funds only to Afghan Mujihideen, not foreign fighters (like Bin Laden and al Qaida) as they were viewed to be too dangerous and unpredictable, and were deemed likely to use any weapons they were given against the US at the first opportunity. The closest we came to giving Bin Laden money was giving money to Pakistan, at which point it was entirely Pakistan's call as to who got the money. They did give money to Bin Laden and some of his buddies. Bin Laden never worked for the US. That's like saying that Lenin worked for Germany. It's demonsterably false. SpudHawg948 (talk) 02:56, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Letter to Barack Obama

In february 2009, he wrote a letter to Barack Obama, asking for news of his former comrade Bruno Breguet. See: in french: http://www.rue89.com/2009/02/12/de-sa-prison-le-terroriste-carlos-ecrit-a-barack-obama --Ecureuil espagnol (talk) 15:10, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Inappropriate tone as per Wikipedia:TERRORIST

Somebody should change to a more neutral term in either case. Lars T. (talk) 21:01, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

I completely disagree which is why I changed it to terrorist and noted my reasons for doing so below. The facts are the facts. Would you substitute some "more neutral" term for the Holocaust or Stalin's Terror-Famine in the Ukraine? I think not.

PainMan (talk) 06:11, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Which prison?

The article says he is held in Clairvaux Prison, and so does the equivalent in many other language wikipedias. The Clairvaux Prison article says Carlos is there. However, since 14 June 2008, the French Wikipedia says he is in Poissy. I've tagged Clairvaux for a reference, but must confess I'm inclined to believe the French version. Anyone got a definitive answer? Emeraude (talk) 10:59, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

An editor has added a citation that says Carlos in is in Clairvaux. However, the citation is from 2007 i.e. it predates the French Wiki edit that says he is in Poissy, so does not satisfy my concern expressed above. So, I have deleted the reference and replaced the tag, hoping that someone can get a definitive and up-to-date answer. Emeraude (talk) 15:28, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

A bit of searching through French websites has produced the following:

Libération on 28 July 2009 ([2], in a quiz on the European elections, included the question "Le lundi 1er juin, en plein meeting, Dieudonné M’bala M’bala, tête de liste «antisioniste» en Ile-de-France, reçoit un coup de téléphone de soutien de :". The correct answer was given as" b. Illitch Ramirez Sanchez dit «Carlos» depuis la prison de la Santé."

La Voix des Opprimes 24 June 2009 reproduced here says "Illich Ramirez Sanchez (Illitch Ramirez Sanchez est né le 12 octobre 1949 à Caracas), tel qu’il est aujourd’hui à l’âge de 60 ans, enlevé à Khartoum par le général RONDOT, emprisonné en France depuis 1994 et incarcéré à la prison de Clairvaux, détenu aujourd’hui à la prison de La Santé, purge une peine de prison à perpétuité."

And, interestingly enough, the English Wikipedia article on La Santé Prison lists him as an inmate. So that seems to settle it - he's now in La Santé. Article suitably amended. Emeraude (talk) 15:59, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Any Connection with Black September terrorists ?

Had he anything to do with the Black September ?  Jon Ascton  (talk) 13:33, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

He likes to murder innocent people.

PainMan (talk) 06:12, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

do you, too? because your reply had almost nothing to do with the original question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.229.211.148 (talk) 12:25, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Changed "Revolutionary" to Convicted Terrorist

The man is a convicted terrorist. He was never a "revolutionary." And to call him such is to give him credibility he doesn't deserve by associating him with the likes of Washington, Lafayette, Bolivar, Lech Walesa and other TRUE revolutionaries.

To call him any thing other than a terrorist is either a misguided attempt at NPOV or a deliberate attempt at Orwellian double-speak.

The PFLP-GC is one of the most vicious terrorist organizations in history which, as Israeli journalist Samuel Katz has proven, destroyed Pan-Am Flight 103 for the Iranian government (for a payment of US$3,000,000) as revenge for the completely accidental downing of an Iranian passenger jet by the USS Vincennes. A man who belong(s?) to such an organization is a thug and a murderer, NOT a "revolutionary."

PainMan (talk) 06:08, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

He was convicted of murder, not terrorism (just modified one of your edits accordingly). And he is a revolutionary: he advocated revolution, and like many revolutionaries (though of course not all) he condoned and even practised violence in his aim to achieve it. Although the words "revolutionary" and "terrorist" might seem as subjective as each other (IMHO anyway), the 'pedia has a policy regarding use of the word "terrorist". --AdamSommerton (talk) 20:48, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Wrong reference to "The Day of the Jackal"

As noted in the Wikipedia article The Day of the Jackal "Real-life terrorist Ilich Ramírez Sánchez was nicknamed "Carlos the Jackal" by the press after a reporter with The Guardian newspaper erroneously reported that the novel was found among the terrorist's possessions (which were with his friend Angela Otaola in London)." This should be corrected in this article, too. (Though references are missing in the cited Wikipedia article.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.159.10.116 (talk) 11:30, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Relation with Chávez

A reply to a letter and a couple of mentions do not give enough grounds to speak of a "relation".

He is known to have written a letter to Venezuelan president Hugo Chávez from his prison cell that President Chávez replied. On June 1, 2006, Chávez referred to him as his "good friend" during a meeting of OPEC countries held in Caracas.
On 20 November, 2009, Hugo Chávez publicly defended Carlos, saying that "he is wrongly considered to be a bad guy and is to be praised as a key revolutionary fighter, instead."

JRSP (talk) 15:15, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Pop culture pruning

I removed the following trivia from the pop culture section:

• In the 1981 movie "Nighthawks", Rutger Hauer portrays an international terrorist named Wulfgar. In one scene, Wulfgar shoots 2 French detectives, shortly followed by the informant who betrayed him.

• In the 1994 film True Lies, Harry (Arnold Schwarzenegger) and "Gib" (Tom Arnold) identify Simon (Bill Paxton) as Carlos while interrogating him. However Simon was only a used car salesman who pretended to be a spy to seduce women, and the interrogation was done to terrify him in retaliation after he attempted to do so with Harry's wife.

• In The Professionals episode, Long Shot, a master assassin by the name of Ramos wearing dark glasses, a medallion and given to referring to himself in the third person, is commissioned to eliminate the head of CI5, George Cowley.

There's nothing in these items to indicate that they're based on or even influenced by Carlos the Jackal instead of any number of other real or fictional characters. The whole Video Game section is a real stretch too, but I've left it alone for now. The pop culture section of this article is too big and contains too much trivia. James A. Stewart (talk) 23:16, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Illich

So if his given name is Illich, doesn't that mean he is actually named after Lenin's father ?Eregli bob (talk) 13:27, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Day of the Jackal References

All of the Day of the Jackal references may as well be removed from the article. Carlos the Jackal has *nothing* to do with the character of Charles Calthrop in the book. The only relation is in fact Cha- from Charles and Cal- from Calthrop combine to make 'Chacal' the French for Jackal, a nick name adopted by the assassin character. In the least, it's annoying. At worst, it's downright misleading.

According to [3], "a reporter with The Guardian newspaper erroneously reported that the novel was found among the terrorist's possessions". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.23.102.126 (talk) 06:26, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

PFLP Activities mentioned in book by PFLP's Bassam Abu Sharif

I have been reading this book Bassam Abu-Sharif and Uzi Mahnaimi. The Best of Enemies: The Memoirs of Bassam Abu-Sharif and Uzi Mahnaimi, 1995. ISBN 978-0-316-00401-5 and it has a good deal of Carlos info regarding his time in the PFLP. The problem I see that it is all from one source. Is a joint auto-biography a reliable source for such changes?

Arrival in Jordan and joining the PFLP Bassam states on page 70 when the Jackal arrives at his office in Beirut, Lebanon in the autumn of 1969: "He launched into what must have been a prepared speech. "I am a student...I come from Venezuela. I have been studying at Patrice Lumumba University. I want to join the PFLP because I'm an internationa,list and revolutionary."...He explained eagerly that he had met Palestinian students in Moscow, who had told him about the PFLP's ideology...He had come from Moscow to Beirut airport overnight and then direct from the airport to my office."

Naming Bassam states on page 72, after asking Carlos his name: "Ilich Ramirez Sanchez," he replied. "My father named me after Lenin." "OK," I said. "From now on, don't tell anyone else your true identity. Round here we will use a nom de guerre." I thought for a moment, He was a Venezuelan. "What about the name 'Carlos'?" I asked He flashed his even teeth at ne, "Carlos will do just fine," he said, and strode out.(end quote)Bassam goes on about the Moors bringing the name Carlos to Spain but I think his motives aren't necessary.

Training On page 78 Bassam states: "The next time I saw Carlos was in July 1970, in the PFLP run 'foreigners' training camp outside Amman....Major Qadir told me that this student, Carlos, was not run of the mill. He learned extremely quickly, he led and dominated discussions, he had great courage."

After passing various tests including a surprise live ammunition raid on the camp he goes on to state on oage 79 that Carlos was sent to the: "finishing school codenamed 'H4', run near the border with Iraq by that country's army."

PFLP Actions On page 89 Bassam outlines that Carlos returns from being trained by the Iraqis to the middle of the Black September conflict in the hills of Jarash in the north of Jordan. He heaps praise on him for his "sang-froid" ad notes several colunter-attacks he took part in.

The organisation was pushed out of Jordan in the conflict and dispersed as in the article. Bassam states further on p89: "I went to Beirut. Carlos came with me. After his performance in Jarash, I reccommended him for operational work. He went to learn the black arts of terrorism at the feet of 'the Master(Wadie Haddad)' Over the following weeks and months Haddad put Carlos through his own special training programme....Carlos went on the missions list"

Regarding the OPEC raid Changes need to be made if Bassam is to be believed as he states in his description on meeting Carlos in Beirut early 1976: "Just before Christmas, Carlos had led an extraordinary mission, fronting the six-strong team that stormed the OPEC meeting in Vienna....(words to the effect of if the demands are not met shoot the oil-ministers)...But Carlos had hesitated he had not shot any of the hostages.He had failed to carry out the instructions...he had flown all his prisoners to Algiers. Here, the Algerian Foreign Minister had persuaded Carlos to release the hostages in return for safe passage out of the country for himself and his team. Carlos also recieve a large amount of money...Haddad considered the mission a complete failure. Carlos had missed a fabulous opportunity." (p163-164)

Suggestions for changes will leave them for a week before implementing please discuss:

Add the quote on naming as a reference for: Ramírez Sánchez was given the nom de guerre Carlos, when he became a member of the leftist Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).

Change second para of early life to read:

"From Moscow he travelled to Beirut, Lebanon where he volunteered for the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) in July of 1970. (insert ref from page 78) He was sent to a training camp for foreign volunteers of the PFLP on the outskirts of Amman, Jordan. On graduating from this he was sent to a finishing school staffed by Iraqi military near the Syria-Iraq border. (insert ref from page 79)

Change PFLP para to read:

On completing guerilla training Carlos played an active role for the PFLP in the north of Jordan during the Black September conflict of 1971, gaining a good reputation as a fighter. After the organisation were pushed out of Jordan he returned to Beirut before being sent off to be schooled in terrorism by Wadie Haddad.(insert ref from p89) He eventually left the Middle East to attend courses at the Polytechnic of Central London and apparently continued to work for the PFLP.

In 1973 Carlos was associated with the PFLP, which had conducted a failed assassination attempt on Jewish businessman and vice-president of the British Zionist Federation Joseph Sieff. This was prompted by the Mossad assassination of Mohamed Boudia, a PFLP leader, in Paris. Carlos also admits responsibility for a failed bomb attack on the Bank Hapoalim in London and car bomb attacks on three French newspapers, which were accused of pro-Israeli leanings. He claimed to be the grenade thrower at a Parisian restaurant in an attack that killed two and injured 30. He later participated in two failed rocket propelled grenade attacks on El Al airplanes at Orly Airport near Paris on January 13 and 17, 1975.

On June 27, 1975, Carlos's PFLP contact, Lebanon-born Michel Moukharbal, was captured and successfully interrogated. When three policemen tried to apprehend Carlos at a house in Paris in the middle of a party, he shot two detectives, fled the scene, and managed to escape via Brussels to Beirut.

Change last sentence of OPEC raid para from: Carlos soon left Algeria for Libya and then Aden, where he attended a meeting of senior PFLP officials to justify his failure to execute two senior OPEC hostages—the finance minister of Iran, Jamshid Amuzgar, and the oil minister of Saudi Arabia, Ahmed Zaki Yamani. PFLP-EO leader Wadi Haddad expelled him.

to: Carlos soon left Algeria for Libya and then Aden, where he attended a meeting of senior PFLP officials to justify his failure to execute two senior OPEC hostages—the finance minister of Iran, Jamshid Amuzgar, and the oil minister of Saudi Arabia, Ahmed Zaki Yamani. PFLP-EO leader Wadi Haddad expelled him for not shooting hostages when PFLP demands were not met thus failing his mission.(insert ref from p164) --Omar418 (talk) 03:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Movie references

The 1997 The Jackal movie, starring Bruce Willis, is not mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.23.102.126 (talk) 06:24, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

This is related to the Forsythe novel and has nothing to do with "Carlos".Mezigue (talk) 13:15, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Terrorist

The main business of this man was terrorism. I do not understand why word terrorism is so rarely used here? --Eleven Nine (talk) 12:15, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

I tried an edit to make this clearer, prodded by some comments by User:Quinacrine everywhere but the appropriate place about this. Someone reverted me [4] claiming it needed "consensus" but I see nothing particularly controversial about this characterization. Wnt (talk) 23:00, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

The new lead give good information. The inclusion of terrorist seems heavily supported. If theres a wp:blp objection i'd be willing to listen. Gsonnenf (talk) 16:17, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes there is a bit of a whitewashing attempt going on here. Mezigue (talk) 10:35, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

So far that sounds like four people in favor of saying "terrorist". But I'm still seeing Youreallycan reverting my edit saying he wants a "consensus on the talk page". [5] The traffic on this page is not that heavy, even with a Wikiquette thread out there talking about this issue. [6] I wonder how many people he expects to pass through here before he would believe that his majority of one is not sufficient to keep this out of the article for all time? Wnt (talk) 07:25, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Can the person adding the original please revert manually. Its unclear to me what content was and was not part of the edit war.Gsonnenf (talk) 04:50, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

OK, I've restored the edit I made before. Mythic Writerlord said he reverted me because he thought I took stuff out - I didn't; I just combined two sentences from the same CNN ref into the same paragraph so one instance of the reference could be removed. Hopefully at least this will make any edit war smaller, though we'll see. Wnt (talk) 20:26, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Dubious reference

In 2010 Spanish journalist Antonio Salas published El Palestino (The Palestinian), following five years of infiltration as a Palestinian-Venezuelan terrorist, during which he did an extensive research on Carlos Ramirez, arriving to meet his kin and have direct correspondence with him from prison. [36]

Ref 36 is to Salas own site. It is not suitable as a reference.

The passage appears to be poorly translated ('arriving' is not the English idiom for achieving an objective)

Please translate and find an independent citation or review of Salas.

G. Robert Shiplett 01:06, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Famous pic

Anybody of a certain age knew Carlos the Jackal through a somewhat grainy photo of him wearing big 70s-era sunglasses and a dark jacket, possibly smirking a little. The picture was endlessly reproduced and became almost iconic, but this article has no such pic. It's hard to believe that something so widely disseminated is so closely copyrighted as to be unavailable to Wikipedia. Or is it? --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 17:58, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Watched the mini-series on Canal+ ... now I'm an expert!

Carlos was right when he said that the Canal+ mini-series was misleading and could influence the outcomes of further trials. Anyway, last night I watched the film and - hey! -I'm suddenly and expert in the life of Carlos the Jackal! (seriously - I think there are a few editors of this page who are basing their knowledge soley on the TV version).Francis Hannaway 18:16, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

yeah right-making unbased accusations on fellow wikipedian is so much more of an experts behaviaor — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.223.178.52 (talk) 08:55, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Involved in Entebbe?

The entry to `Operation Entebbe' seems to indicate Carlos was involved, but this page says he was not involved.

I have read a book about it, he was involved "indirectly". Lamedumal (talk) 09:33, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Questionable reference to popular culture

The Bruce Willis film The Jackal is cited as being a reference in popular culture to Carlos the Jackal; however, the film is a remake of the Fred Zinnemann film The Day of The Jackal which was based on the book of the same name by Frederick Forsyth, and both predate the fame of Carlos the Jackal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.106.240.194 (talk) 18:34, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

You are right. That was added back recently after being repeatedly removed and no one else spotted it. Mezigue (talk) 21:52, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Colin Smith book - "authoritative"?

Colin Smith's 1976 biography is referred to as "authoritative", yet as far as I can see is not used as a direct citation for anything throughout the article. I am currently reading it, and have already come across a number of divergent claims from those in this Wikipedia article.

E.g. Smith claims (see pp145-146, Sphere paperback edition) that:

• Carlos used a Browning 9mm in the attempted assassination of Sieff;
• Carlos was led to Sieff by the Portuguese butler;
• Sieff was in the bathroom but standing, and indeed unbolted the door;
• Carlos shot Sieff once (per Soviet training) and left immediately, with no mention of an attempt to shoot a second time

This contrasts with the article, which has:

• Carlos using a Tokarev 7.62mm;
• Carlos being led to Sieff by the maid;
• Sieff being not just in the bathroom, but actually in the bath;
• Carlos attempting to shoot a second time, but suffering a jammed pistol.

(Tangentially, but possibly indicative of the accuracy of Smith's book, elsewhere he describes the song 'La Bamba' as "the Italian dance number" (p42),; I am only aware of the Spanish-language traditional Mexican song, and can find no reference to such an Italian song.)

Can someone with a better knowledge of the subject advise whether it is best to amend the reference to the Smith book (certainly it would seem to require at bare minimum a clarification on how it is 'authoritative'), or to amend the body of the article, at least the Sieff section? BristleKRS (talk) 20:44, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

It's ludicrous, in any case, to refer to a 1976 biography as "authoritative" for a subject who spent 20 subsequent years being notable and not yet imprisoned. And who is, in fact, still alive despite being locked up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.212.150.162 (talk) 15:52, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Why is this disputed?

It seems to me that the above critiques are groundless. Anyone who reads this or the 'Operation Entebbe' page and can't tell that Carlos was not involved, is an idiot and should not be using a computer. Both pages are quite clear.

As there doesn't appear to be anyone now even claiming Carlos' involvement in Entebbe or Munich, I've rewritten to make it clear that he wasn't involved, and removed the disputed tag. David | Talk 4 July 2005 18:58 (UTC)

Yeah, I followed the article's history and agree with your actions.

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:37, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Ilyich IS a Christian name?

Article currently states "Despite his mother's pleas to give their firstborn child a Christian first name..." Ilyich means "son of Ilya", and Ilya is derived from Elijah... a biblical name. Perhaps this should read "Spanish name" ? 31.54.33.206 (talk) 19:36, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 July 2019

"Venezuelan terrorist" could be considered a contentious label, but most media refer to him as such. Perhaps the line could read:

Ilich Ramírez Sánchez (Spanish: [ilitʃ raˈmiɾes santʃes]; born 12 October 1949), also known as Carlos the Jackal (Spanish: Carlos el Chacal), is a native Venezuelan convicted of terrorist crimes, and currently serving a life sentence… PhillyHarold 17:15, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

 Done - ZLEA _T\^C 17:28, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

References

Surgery?

English version: Carlos was scheduled to undergo a minor testicular operation in a hospital in Sudan.
French version: Sa capture a eu lieu pendant qu'il était endormi pour une chirurgie plastique qui visait à cacher son identité.
There is a contradiction here as the French version says he was undergoing plastic surgery to conceal his identity. I do not know which one is correct.
Gentleman wiki (talk) 15:29, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Please add, in chrono order

Jean-François Ricard, who at the time was general counsel at the Court of Appeal of Paris, requested the trial of Carlos the Jackal in 2013.

--2603:7000:2143:8500:D0AA:5088:89B8:815D (talk) 08:30, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

References