Talk:Charles Heidsieck

Good Article on hold

I'm putting this on GA hold due to criteria 3a. I don't find it comprehensive enough (no mention of early life, marriages, etc.) Take a look at {{Biography}} for some sections you're missing. The copyrighted images could also use detailed fair use rationales, and the lead image's caption needs expanding. -Malkinann 23:40, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

This is partly the nature of historical bios, the lack of available information. It is the main reason why an article of this type could never ascend to Featured Article status but was the exact reason why WP:GA was develop to review these articles inherently hindered by a limited scope. I will certainly put in due effort for another look but while I can find numerous sources to back up the information I already have in the article about his accomplishments and why he is notable, I fret that simply is no available reliable sources for some of the more trivial details of his life. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 20:18, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

• Update Lead caption has been expanded and detailed fair use added to book cover and dvd cover. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 20:27, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Maybe put a 'circa' date for the portrait? Thanks for doing the fair use rationale. I appreciate the difficulty of sourcing details on historical figures, but surely details of his wife and children would be in D. & P. Kladstrup's Champagne? (Assuming that you personally have access to a copy, that is. Maybe get the wikiprojects involved?) There is also no information on his death in the article. An infobox would be an improvement to the article. - Malkinann 22:23, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I own Kladstrup's book and have mined every bit of information it. Other sources like Johnson's & Phillips only back up the same details in Kladstrup book-the important notable aspects of his life. Now the search is moving to the internet with it's less then pristinely reliable sources. I strongly prefer hardcopy sources that have gone through editors and fact checkers but since these extra details are more of less trivial, I suppose internet sources will do. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 19:28, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

• Update After searching through the 3700+ links on google for "Charles Heidsieck" death and "Charles Camille Heidsieck" death, I couldn't find any details about his death. Most likely there was nothing spectacular about his death and was just a quiet end to the man's life. I'm continuing the search for children and so far couldn't find anything on google with "Charles Camille Heidsieck" children but have yet to wade through all the 10,000+ links and translations for "Charles Heidsieck" children. I'm trying. :) Agne^Cheese/^Wine 19:26, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
• Update I went through the vast majority of those link and I simply could not find any about kids. I am bit at a lost since I'm not sure what more could be added to the article without any reliable source to verify it. I feel like it is a no win situation sigh. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 00:47, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, if the information isn't there, it's lost, isn't it? Please insert a biography infobox, and fill in as much as you can: {{Infobox Biography | subject_name = | image_name = | image_size = | image_caption = | date_of_birth = | place_of_birth = | date_of_death = | place_of_death = | occupation = | spouse = | parents = | children = }} -Malkinann 11:53, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Done Thank you for your help. :) Agne^Cheese/^Wine 01:33, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for being such a good sport about my suggestions. I've passed the article as it seems like it's amongst the most comprehensive sources available on the man. You may also wish to add WP:PDATA to the article. -Malkinann 00:57, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I know that you were trying to help the article and improve it. I appreciate that. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 02:09, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Charles Heidsieck/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force in an effort to ensure all listed Good articles continue to meet the Good article criteria. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed, listed below. I will check back in seven days. If these issues are addressed, the article will remain listed as a Good article. Otherwise, it may be delisted (such a decision may be challenged through WP:GAR). If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at WP:GAN. Feel free to drop a message on my talk page if you have any questions, and many thanks for all the hard work that has gone into this article thus far.

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   This is practically a one-source article, which is something that should be avoided as far as possible. Relying on only one source can lead to problems with balanced representation.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   This is where the article fails most profoundly. It is written from a US-perspective, though as far as I understand, the man lived most of his life in France. There is hardly anything on his life before travelling to America, or after returning. There is for instance nothing on his death or burial. I know these issues were brought up at the original GA review, but as it stands now it simply does not fulfil this GA criterion.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   The article uses fair use images excessively. If the book and movie do not have their own articles, they are probably not independently notable, and therefore not culturally significant in relation to the article. In any case, they could easily have been mentioned in prose rather than represented visually.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   Lampman (talk) 12:05, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

I note that item #3 could be fixed with a minor change to the article title and the lead section. This seems to be less of a bio article and more of an article about the subject's activities in the United States. I also note that the primary contributor has no problem with this article being downgraded from GA status.

Also, the reviewer above is way off base with regard to #6. The images appropriately illustrate the content certainly wherever it's possible to do so, in line with the criterion. Subjective or questionable opinions should be kept out of reviews such as this. ~Amatulić (talk) 01:00, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Don't shoot the messenger, that's Wikipedia's opinion, not mine. The non-free content guidelines clearly label as unacceptable "A magazine or book cover, to illustrate the article on the person whose photograph is on the cover". Anyway, since you have no objection to the delisting, and no intention of improving the article, I will delist it. Lampman (talk) 19:58, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

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