Talk:Christianity among the Mongols

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Modern Mongolia[edit]

This article should include information about Modern Mongolia and other eras of Mongolian history, not just the Khan era. Or change the name of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.212.19.111 (talk) 02:28, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Title and content of this article match perfectly. You seem to be confusing Mongols and Mongolians. --Latebird (talk) 13:10, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hoax?[edit]

This almost seems a contradiction in terms, an exaggerated fantasy of a few isolates. Why does this deserve its own article? I see every straw has been pulled to fancify this notion. 24.255.11.149 (talk) 09:37, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"I don't like the documented facts so they must be a hoax", right? --Latebird (talk) 12:06, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What facts are those? Christianity was and is a minority religion amongst the Mongols. This article, prior to some needed edits, attempted to paint a false historical picture, and was changed. Trying to adapt history to fit modern notions is hardly a way to write an article. Atari400 07:21, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Few Wikipedia articles include citations and references like this one. In any case, if you want to criticize an article, you'll have to point out specific issues. Right now, I still don't have the slightest clue what your actual problem is. --Latebird (talk) 00:45, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wang Khan[edit]

Wang is Chinese for King, Khan is Mongolian, so "King and Khan" only makes sense as translation from the Chinese. Since this article is about Christianity among the Mongols, it's probably better not to translate the title at all. Actually, I am not sure whether we should put the title into quotation marks. We don't write "Genghis Khan" Temüjin or "Gür Khan" Jamuqa, do we? Yaan (talk) 18:16, 27 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Images[edit]

Hulagu and Queen Doquz Qatun as Christian rulers, from a Syriac Bible.
Nestorian Mongolian Bishop
Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 22:19, 18 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Nice images, thanks. I've added one to Doquz Khatun. For the one on the right though, can we find out any other information about it, like where it's from, or some source verifying the topic matter? Thanks, --El on ka 07:09, 19 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Source: [1] Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 07:15, 19 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I wouldn't call that a reliable source. Where is the image from? Which museum, which book? Is it from the 13th century, or a modern image? It would be best to have some other information on it, besides a one-line caption on a church's website. --El on ka 07:36, 19 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

...Not just a "church's website" though, although I understand your concern. The source page [2] was written by the Bishop of California David Royel (Corbishop Rev. David Royel), of the Assyrian Church of the East, who is a Doctor and by his position is probably quite an authority on the subject though. The Website seems to be the official site of the Assyrian Church of the East, Diocese of Australia and New Zealand. I guess we'd need to contact Bishop David Royel to obtain more info on the picture, as it doesn't seem to be anywhere else on the web. Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 08:27, 19 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Another issue is the copyright on the image. If it's from an ancient source, that's one thing, but if it's a modern drawing of what a Nestorian bishop might have looked like, then we run into copyright concerns. --El on ka 15:24, 19 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A modern image voluntarily drawn in medieval Central Asian silk-painting style? That seems highly unlikely... When in doubt, though... I'll go for speedy delete for the time being, since it might take some time before I get an information from The Most Reverend Nestorian Bishop of California (e-mail sent)... Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 18:42, 19 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Page move[edit]

Considering that there is already an article Christianity in Mongolia, I'd like to propose moving this article to History of Christianity among the Mongols. Any objections? --El on ka 15:40, 26 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good to me. For a moment I thought about merging the two, but it's probably too big for that. --Latebird (talk) 19:00, 26 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not so sure. The Mongols (as a historical term) are not the same thing as the Mongolians, and since we do not have "modern" accounts of the Mongols and Christianity, specifying "History of" does not seem usefull. It only makes the title longer and more circonvoluted. It is as if we had an article about "Christianity among the Sogdians", and would like to change it to "History of Christianity among the Sogdian": it does not add anything since the Sogdians are history anyway. This article simply covers the relationship between Christianity and the Mongols, and I think therefore its name should remain "Christianity among the Mongols". Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 07:40, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Images[edit]

14th century Christian tombstones from Quanzhou with Mongol Phags-pa inscriptions. Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 00:07, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Gravestone of Liu Yigong with Mongol Phags-pa inscription (dated 1324)
Gravestone of Yang Wengshe with Phags-pa inscription (dated 1314)
Gravestone of Zhu Yanke with Phags-pa inscription (dated 1311)
English: Gravestone of Ye Shi with Phags-pa inscription (undated, early 14th century)

Western missionaries[edit]

Folke Boberg's missionary work among mongols in china

http://books.google.com/books?id=oQ8BFk9K0ToC&pg=PA72&dq=Mongolian+English+dictionary&hl=en&sa=X&ei=b3zgUMSGCMWu0AHG8YCADg&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Mongolian%20English%20dictionary&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=cJJcQwAACAAJ&dq=Mongolian+English+dictionary&hl=en&sa=X&ei=b3zgUMSGCMWu0AHG8YCADg&ved=0CFQQ6AEwBg

http://books.google.com/books?id=FT1EAAAAIAAJ&dq=Mongolian+English+dictionary&hl=en&sa=X&ei=b3zgUMSGCMWu0AHG8YCADg&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAQ

Han-Mongol Encounters And Missionary Endeavors: A History Of Scheut In Ordos, (HETAO), 1874-1911 By Patrick Taveirne

http://books.google.com/books?id=z2japTNPRNAC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Chronique Du Toumet-Ortos: Looking Through the Lens of Joseph Van Oost, Missionary in Inner Mongolia (1915-1921) By Ann Heylen

http://books.google.com/books?id=WSl5cl_wt24C&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

19th and 20th century

http://books.google.com/books?id=6dkUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA409&dq=Mongolian+English+dictionary&hl=en&sa=X&ei=D4vgUMvkA4i40AHG2YDADQ&ved=0CEgQ6AEwAzhk#v=onepage&q=Mongolian%20English%20dictionary&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=mYgoAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA128&dq=missionary+work+among+mongols+in+china&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mn_gUJblOebq0AGJnYDIAg&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=missionary%20work%20among%20mongols%20in%20china&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=L_97eU58EisC&pg=PA128&dq=missionary+work+among+mongols+in+china&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mn_gUJblOebq0AGJnYDIAg&ved=0CE0Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=missionary%20work%20among%20mongols%20in%20china&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=GcNWAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA104&dq=missionary+work+among+mongols+in+china&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mn_gUJblOebq0AGJnYDIAg&ved=0CEIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=missionary%20work%20among%20mongols%20in%20china&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=SjYEAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA604&dq=missionary+work+among+mongols+in+china&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mn_gUJblOebq0AGJnYDIAg&ved=0CFMQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=missionary%20work%20among%20mongols%20in%20china&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=UXIDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA100&dq=missionary+work+among+mongols+in+china&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mn_gUJblOebq0AGJnYDIAg&ved=0CF0Q6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=missionary%20work%20among%20mongols%20in%20china&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=TH0uAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=missionary+work+among+mongols+in+china&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mn_gUJblOebq0AGJnYDIAg&ved=0CEcQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=missionary%20work%20among%20mongols%20in%20china&f=false

Medieval catholic missions

http://books.google.com/books?id=rlZNrlQVOHgC&pg=PA460&dq=missionary+work+among+mongols+in+china&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mn_gUJblOebq0AGJnYDIAg&ved=0CGIQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=missionary%20work%20among%20mongols%20in%20china&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=wjOyxUzKWLAC&pg=PA460&dq=missionary+work+among+mongols+in+china&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mn_gUJblOebq0AGJnYDIAg&ved=0CGoQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=missionary%20work%20among%20mongols%20in%20china&f=false

A Tract for the Buryats By Charles Roskelly Bawden, Isaak Jakob Schmidt, Hartmut Walravens

http://books.google.com/books?id=u52YuBGteZYC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=-UUEAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA215&dq=Mongolian+English+dictionary&hl=en&sa=X&ei=7IngUIznK4L40gHzsIDoDg&ved=0CEkQ6AEwAzhG#v=onepage&q=Mongolian%20English%20dictionary&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 18:45, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Mongke Khan[edit]

An interesting discovery I have made, it appears that Mongke Khan and his present lineage had been baptized by the visiting retinue of the Christian Armenian King Hethum as he was visiting to submit to Mongol vassalage and pay respects. Would this qualify for mention on this page? http://www.attalus.org/armenian/hetum3.htm#24. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.84.153.27 (talk) 18:38, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]