Talk:Delta Sigma Theta/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Untitled

It was suggested that this article should be renamed Delta Sigma Theta. The vote is shown below:

Move Gene Nygaard 14:00, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

This article has been renamed after the result of a move request. violet/riga (t) 12:34, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

not verifiably the largest womens organization in the world

DST IS A SERVICE SORORITY NOT A SOCIAL!!!!! Miranda, DST is a sororityof service. Please refer to the webiste attached. Though single gender sororities are considered Social according to manual of american college fraternities. DST is part of NPHC and has labeled their organization as a sorority of service! http://www.stillman.edu/stillman/GreekOrg/dst.html 

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.189.99.134 (talk) 19:16, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
@ 207.189.99.134: Per Title IX, DST is not a "service" sorority, regardless of how much volunteering they do or what a chapter decides to label themselves as (chapter pages are notoriously not reliable sources. What does DST being part of the NPHC have to do with their classification as service/social? That does not trump Baird's Manual nor US Law. Justinm1978 (talk) 20:51, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

DST is the largest organization for women in the world. It may be the AA sorority with the most chapters, but not the largest org in the whole world.

Name one org that has 900+ chapters (if that is a correct number) - I'm thinking 90+ - because
that would be an unmanagable number. Their chapter names would be three greek letters (alpha
alpha alpha chapter) ---EDIT: I stand corrected if their website is valid
http://deltasigmatheta.xohost.com/inside.php?id=0305A

Delta may or may not be the largest org for women in the world, but that number of chapters (900+) can be maintained and thier chapters would not have to extend into Alpha Alpha Alpha, as you suggested, since Delta names her graduate chapters (Alumnae) by the area that they are located in (ex. Birmingham Alumnae Chapter). The corporate offices of sororities, in this case Delta Grand Chapter, keep up with these things as they are required to by the government who has allowed 501(c)3 allowances for them. The international website will prove to assist in questions you have. Visit other websites of other organizations to see how many chapters they have listed. LivelyIvy1908 01:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

With the statement being "the largest sorority" in the world, IMHO, needs to be verified a neutral source, unrelated to the sorority. I can see how this may be the largest African-American sororitity in the world, as seen by the quote below. Miranda 01:40, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

The Delta Sigma Theta Sorority website is meticulously maintained as is valid. Given the structure of the organization, 900+ chapters is manageable and accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.239.58 (talk) 13:04, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

We need a reliable source for this, not original research. Miranda 00:58, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


Jasminjanice 00:42, 20 October 2007 (UTC) Correction on January 13, 1913 DST was founded, 75 years later Delta Sigma Theta Sorority became one of the largest Black women's organizations in the world, with over 125,000 members in 730 chapters in the U.S., Africa, and the Caribbean. This is fact stated in the book "In Search of Sisterhood" written by Paula Giddings page 15 first paragraph located in the introduction...... Check it out Thankyou

Copyvio/NPOV issues? Peacock words?

The latter section of the article appears possibly to be pasted in from some DST literature.

  • the threat to Social Security as we know it
  • an urgent sense that bold action was needed to save our young females
  • A natural outgrowth and expansion for the continuation of the highly successful ...

This is not encyclopedic style and is potentially a copyright violation. We need someone with the patience to disentangle factual information about DST programs from the organization's own PR. These programs can be described in more neutral terms, in some cases simply by changing first-person references ("our young females") to neutral ones ("young females" or better yet, "young women and girls"), but in other cases by excision of peacock terms. (In the interest of being positive: Check out Wikipedia:Guide to writing better articles.) Lawikitejana 15:09, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree tremendously. I am trying to clean the bias up. DST's page on Wikipedia should not be an advertisement on why a potential candidate should join the sorority. Miranda 17:03, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
There is a NPOV problem with the Programs section, hence the disputed tag. Miranda 05:11, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

"Cream" as in "cream-colored" or as a synonym for white?

The current link in "crimson and cream" goes to the article on white (color). However, there is now an article for cream (color). I didn't want to change the link without knowing whether the organization really uses the cream color or simply uses the term cream to refer to white because it is alliterative. Lawikitejana 15:19, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Remove "Soror" in Founder Descriptions

Please remove "soror" in founder descriptions. Not every woman on Wikipedia is not a Soror in Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Incorporated. Also, please cite information (i.e. In Search of Sisterhood). Thanks! Bearly541 06:20, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Pharmacy

No reference to the DST that predates the current this organization by many years? Delta Sigma Theta Pharmaceutical/Dental (male) Fraternity was founded in the late 1800s. Their HQ shut down in the late 80s early 90s. Last I heard, there were still two functioning chapters one at STLCOP and one at rutgers. [[TheAngriestPharmacist]] 08:47, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

You can make a disambiguation page for the dental society. But, as far as the notability of the society, Delta Sigma Theta the sorority always comes first. Real96 06:51, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

It'd be too hard to find info on the pharmacy fraternity. They died before the internet boom, so there's nothing out there. I'm sure they have manuals, etc, but they're in someone's closet. If they're worthy of a stub, a member will do it eventually...I guess...or I may get a wild hair some day. [[TheAngriestPharmacist]] 08:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Assessment

I reassessed this article as a Start, for many reasons. First, lack of reliable sources and citations. Some of this looks copied from a website (national?). Second, this article not having a neutral point of view. I have added two pictures in order to enhance the article, but an alleged Delta member keeps removing information and placing information which constitutes original research. Third, correction of red links. I am going to make some founder pages later on for AKA b/c the founders were original members of AKA. I am also going to upload some images of Delta members on Commons, because I found some online. Contact me on my talk page if you have any more questions. Miranda 16:45, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Fortitude and torch

*Torch Uploaded. Miranda 17:10, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Upload and add fair use guidelines when necessary. Miranda 03:57, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Additional images this. Miranda 05:48, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

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Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporation Dates

Delta Sigma Theta Sorority was incorporated in 1913 and again in 1930. This page should reflect both incorporation dates since both incorporation dates are very important milestones in Delta's history and each incorporation date serves a unique purpose. HistoricDST 03:48, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Changed the descriptions of the Incorporation dates to be like that on the List of Delta Sigma Theta sisters. Some mention has to be made of both dates, if nothing else to cut down on the well meaning changes. I'd really like to get a decent reference though.Naraht (talk) 21:45, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

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name for Founder Jones.

Which should be used in the list:

  • Olive Jones
  • Olive C. Jones
  • Olive Claire Jones

The Sorority itself has published the following powerpoint: [1] which includes the following in a worksheet answer key as part guideline for chapters writing articles both for internal and external publication:

–Founder Jones chose to be known publicly as Olive Jones. So, that’s how her name should be written."

.Naraht (talk) 21:57, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

I think it should be how the sorority officially calls her. //nepaxt 02:31, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

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Books on Article

Does anyone have any official books on DST? @HistoricDST could you please e-mail scans of your history book to my e-mail address? Contact me on the e-mail user. Thanks. I am getting the Giddings book from my library. I would like to update the map and get this to featured article status. //nepaxt 03:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

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Featured by 2013 or earlier?

My goal is to make this article featured prior to DST's centennial. But, one of the issues is the lack of material on DST's founders. I think that material is available at Delta's National HQ's. Could someone please e-mail me about sending me DST's founder biographies, as well as historical content? Thanks. miranda 23:58, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

This page needs to be removed! Please refer to www.deltasigmatheta.org for information regarding Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc. How can men, and other NON-MEMBERS of this organization be allowed to contribute to or edit information about this organization? You can research ALL the media in the world but YOU will NEVER know about Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc. as a MEMBER would. I say remove this page and do it now! This page was not and has not been authorized by Grand Chapter!


Legal Notice:

The contents of all material available on this Internet site are copyrighted by DELTA SIGMA THETA SORORITY, INC. (DST) unless otherwise indicated. Copyright is not claimed as to any part of an original work prepared by a U.S. or state government officer or employee as part of that person's official duties. All rights are reserved by DST and content may not be reproduced, downloaded, disseminated, published, or transferred in any form or by any means, except with the prior written permission of DST, or as indicated.

Members of DST may download pages or other content for their own use, consistent with the mission and purpose of the sorority; however, no part of such content - text or graphic - may be otherwise or subsequently reproduced, downloaded, disseminated, published, or transferred, in any form or by any means, including placement on another website, except with the prior written permission of and with express attribution to DST.

Copyright infringement is a violation of federal law subject to criminal and civil penalties. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ducky6 (talk • contribs) 13:15, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

File:DeltaSigmaThetaRegions.svg

While I recognize that an image may show things better than words, I believe that a better image could be created for the Regions. The names of the regions are not really all that readable, IMO.Naraht (talk) 21:12, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

You can make a better image. And, I have since updated the image. miranda 21:20, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Tennessee is a part of the Southern Region, not the Mid-Western Region as depicted on this map.QueenZ97 (talk) 18:33, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

History and Incorporation of DST

The name Delta Sigma Theta has a meaning known in GREEK only to initiated members. Please do not attempt to imply or assign a math definition to the name Delta Sigma Theta. Delta Sigma Theta Sorority is a GREEK lettered service sorority not a math sorority. The men of OPP did not assist with the incorporation of DST. The Founders of DST discussed their dissatisfaction and reorganization plans with the men of OPP. HistoricDST 16:29, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Citations

Citations need to be cleaned up, per WP:CITE. miranda 00:38, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I tried to clean up the cites as best I could. For #2, page numbers would be best. miranda 22:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Deleting DST Service Program Information

Post comments here. HistoricDST (talk) 23:26, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Clearly all of that info needs to be rewritten because it was just copied and pasted from their website.Thx2005 (talk) 23:46, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Book Citations

The book citations need proper sourcing. See what I did with the Ross citation in order to source proper citations (i.e. Publisher and Publishing City). M.(er) 20:38, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Incorporated

The official title of the sorority is Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Incorporated. There was another Delta Sigma Theta which was a professional fraternity, as shown with the title of the official website. Please do not blindly revert or make a point. Thank you. M.(er) 02:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

You failed to answer the question. Is this article about the business DST or about DST the organization? Since you have clearly stressed a goal to have this article be Featured Article like Alpha Phi Alpha, it is safe to assume that the naming scheme should be more universal. If you insist on referring to it with the "incorporated", then I will insist on dropping the redundancy of "non-profit". Please do not re-revert to make a point yourself. Justinm1978 02:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
No, this isn't a business. Look at the title of the website. It's Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Incorporated. It's a non-profit organization which was incorporated as a governing body in order to set rules for the local chapters. Read the definition of an incorporation, before making a point and making up original research. M.(er) 02:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I appreciate you taking the time to comment here, but you do not own these articles. I fail to see how this is original research, I suggest you re-read on that as well. Please stop reverting to make a point. Justinm1978 02:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Read incorporation. A non-profit organization can be an incorporated body. NPHC rules are different than any other panhellenic council's rules. And as for owning, your behavior will be reported to ANI. M.(er) 02:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Do what you feel you have to do, but you're wasting admin time by filing a frivilous WP:ANI. I again ask, is this article about DST the business or DST as an organization? Because when you start talking about DST, Inc, you're pretty much always talking business. This article is written more in the tone of the aspects of the organization. And again, thank you for your comments. Justinm1978 02:36, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
No I am not. Re-read the incorporation article. Again, incoporated entities DO NOT have to be for profit. M.(er) 02:37, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
And that's not what I'm even saying. Re-read what has been written. By using the term "non-profit", implication of incorporation has already been made, because in order to be a "non-profit", you have to be incorporated. It's redundant. I value your contributions, but you are taking too much ownership here and not willing to compromise in the least. I point you to Alpha Phi Alpha as a Featured Article example of one that does not refer to its' incorporated status in the header name, and since you've stated that you wish to have this article reach featured status, I assumed you would want the article to fall in-line with that one as far as formatting goes, seems how this article has mimicked the APA article in several other ways. But please, continue to make your point. I'm all ears. Justinm1978 02:42, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I think you are assuming a level of knowledge that our readers may not have and in any case isn't exactly consistent world wide.Geni 02:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough, I'll approach it from a different angle in the morning then. Justinm1978 03:06, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes, however the title mentions "Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Incorporated" in the mission statement. If you have any more problems with knowing what incorporated does or does not entail, why the title of the organization reads "xxx Sorority, Incorporated" as seen with the official websites, then I suggest you individually contact the people who are in charge of those organizations. I am not owning this article. When you make a drastic change which is not inline with protocol, then you make a note of it on the talk page. Continue to make your points by reverting, or giving original research, rather than finding facts in order to improve the article. I am not making note of this on ANI, but am thinking about making it a mediation request. And, I think you mixed up which article I want to make featured. M.(er) 02:50, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Because that's a direct quote of the corporation's mission statement. An email has already been sent to the respective executive directors of each organization asking if I was to refer to their organization in a catalog of other greek-lettered organizations, how would I identify it. I trust you will abide by their response if it does not agree with your pre-determined conclusion on how these articles should be written. Also, your edit history begs to differ with your claim of not trying to be over-protective of these articles. And I'm also curious why you are not making similar requets that every GLO go by their incorporated name, even those outside of the NPHC, since you feel you are so correct in this? Justinm1978 03:06, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

First, I am curious to why you are so interested in my edit history, when it's my personal business? Second, I am opening a mediation case referring to this issue. I hope you will civilly abide by the request. M.(er) 03:11, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Edit histories are public for a reason and are open and readable by anybody. To answer your other question, I removed the images because they were merely decoration. Users do not need illustration to know what an elephant is, if they do, link them to Elephant. SpigotMap 03:14, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
As the person below stated, your edit history is not your personal business. If you don't want your edits to be public knowledge, don't do them with an account. I trust you will be civil as well, and welcome this mediation that probably isn't necessary yet as this issue has been debated for a whole two hours. But as I said earlier when you threatened WP:ANI for making a change to an article you don't agree with, do what you have to do. Justinm1978 03:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree to the point that you shouldn't be making personal attacks, and mediate with a neutral party. And, look above, I am not "threating" you with ANI. I am trying to mediate with a neutral party. You and I don't own Wikipedia. So, please quit wasting my time and others time by attacking my contributions on what articles I want to edit (which by the way, is my right and my personal business/preferences) and let's resolve together the situation whether or not the word "incorporated" should be deleted by backing the fact up. M.(er) 03:43, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Copyright Violations on this article

Miranda 22:34, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Keisha Knight Pulliam

Please take Keisha Knight Pulliam off the "honorary list." Honorary members of the sorority go through a different process than those applying to the organization in college. Ms. Pulliam was initiated into the Sorority at Spelman College in Atlanta, GA. Ms. Pulliam is NOT an honorary member but a full fledged and accepted member of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Increasing . —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Phrostbite06 (talk • contribs) 14:31, 4 April 2007 (UTC).

Done. Real96 07:59, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorority Crest

Please remove the Sorority Crest from this page. This a protected emblem of Delta Sigma Theta per the rules enforced by the Grand Chapter.65.213.64.35 20:21, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but the crest is allowed. All of the sorority's crests are protected under fair use. Continued removal will warrant a block. Wikipedia is not censored. Miranda 20:31, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
I hid the image. Miranda 18:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Per Fair Use legal status, which crest, logos and some other material Copyrighted material can be used regardless of the opinion of the copyright holder. please see Our use of copyrighted media policy ∆ 14:48, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Did nobody notice that the word theta is misspelled on the crest? It should be ΘΗΤΑ, not ΘΕΤΑ. So has this greek lettered sorority been spelling its name wrong for almost a hundred years? Iago212 21:18, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

While absolutely fascinating and you are probably right, I'm not sure that it is relevant to the article.Naraht (talk) 21:49, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

@Iago4096 - The crest that is currently displayed on this page IS CORRECT. "Theta" IS spelled correctly, but the shades of crimson and creme are incorrect. “Th” of the word “Theta” when written in Greek using the Greek alphabet is represented by the Greek symbol or Greek alphabet letter “Θ”. So it is correct to write “Theta” as “ΘETA” since “Θ” is represented in Greek as "TH". Just to let you know that the official version of my sorority crest can only be used when approved and authorized by my sorority National Headquarters. Since 1913, the name of my sorority Delta Sigma Theta whether written in English or written using Greek letters has been spelled CORRECTLY by my sorority. The name of my sorority has a secret meaning in Greek so it has to be spelled correctly. Also, unless you see the patent or trademark symbol by the crest/shield or a statement from my sorority National Headquarters indicating that it is the official version of the crest/shield it is not official. The crest/shield that is on this page is a bootleg version. However, “Theta” is spelled correctly. HistoricDST HistoricDST 20:39, 3 July 2012 (UTC)


@Iago4096 - I wrote an earlier reponse to you that needs to be deleted. However, I cannot locate it. I thought that I wrote it in the edit summary box, but I cannot find it to delete it. LOL!!! Thanks. HistoricDST HistoricDST 20:44, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

I am sorry, HistoricDST, but the name of the letter theta is spelled θῆτα/ΘΗΤΑ in Greek (theta, eta, tau, alpha). Please look it up. On what basis do you claim your spelling is correct? Iago212 07:43, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

HistoricDST Can you please identify yourself and credentials? I see you have done several postings for Delta Sigma Theta and am just curious. Iago4096 The sorority has NOT been spelling it's name wrong for 100 years, in fact the shield was redesigned much after our original to conceal the secret meaning of our Sorority's name. From my understanding, our translations follows a basic form and is not meant to be a literal translation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.126.99.66 (talk) 21:46, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Please give information on when it was redesigned. (Baird's doesn't seem to give help, the 1923 version I own, doesn't list the NPHC fraternities and sororities) I'm in a Fraternity (Alpha Phi Omega) that also redesigned their shield after founding.Naraht (talk) 03:08, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Hello, 207.126.99.66! I am not exactly sure I understand what you mean by 'translation'. Are you saying the text 'ΔΕΛΤΑ ΣΙΓΜΑ ΘΕΤΑ' (sic) on the crest is 'not' to be read as a spelling out of the the letters 'ΔΣΘ'? Please explain. Iago212 09:24, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Crickets... I need to find my copy of "In Search of Sisterhood".Naraht (talk) 16:35, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Other Greek Letter Organizations

For the Greek Letter Organizations that I can find with Theta spelled out in greek on the crest.

  • ΘΗΕΤΑ (Really?)


Still looking for additional...Naraht (talk) 12:59, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Naraht. I have commented on the spelling in Beta Chi Theta a while ago, but got no official response (see talk page there). Iago212 14:15, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Whether or not it is spelled correctly and whether it is the actual official crest of the organization are two separate issues. Is there an equivalent to "sic" for an image?Naraht (talk) 14:45, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
We could put a note on the talk page of the image file. Iago212 14:50, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
I think we need more information first, unfortunately.Naraht (talk) 16:35, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Working on that, Naraht. I called them a week ago and I talked to a nice lady in public relations, I believe. She seemed interested and I gave her some more information, but I don't think we will get an actual admission of a mistake. I have a feeling that the unsigned entry by 207.126.99.66 above, asking for credentials of HistoricDST, was the same person I talked to, which may mean that "our translations follows a basic form and is not meant to be a literal translation" (sic) is as much insight as we will get. Iago212 19:10, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
I live in the Washington DC area, if you think that a visit to HQ would make an overwhelming difference let me know. Not sure when I'd be able to schedule that but let me know if you think I should try. (note after your comment, I won't try calling them)Naraht (talk) 11:15, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
I live in England, Naraht, so it would definitely be a shorter trip for you. Well, if you are willing to do that, simply for the sake of proofreading the world, it would be really appreciated. I merely recommended they should contact someone at their local university in the classics or divinity department with training in Ancient or Modern Greek, if they need more convincing. Iago212 10:01, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
I'll get to it when I can, may be several weeks or more. Besides, as a white male, I'm going to look a little out of place at their HQ. :)Naraht (talk) 20:27, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
Almost three months now and nothing has happened yet. Will contact them again. Iago212 08:49, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Pictures that we could get free usage from if e-mailed.

miranda 23:28, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Inaccuracy Dispute Regarding Largest African-American Sorority!

Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated is the Largest African-American Sorority in the World. Information is verifiable at the official websites of both organizations. The information is also verifiable with Internal Revenue Service - 501(c) organizations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.123.144.173 (talk) 16:21, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

Odd spelling in Coat of Arms

The organization's Coat of Arms spells Theta as Theta-Epsilon-Tau-Alpha rather than the correct Theta-Eta-Tau-Alpha. Is this something that belongs in the article? Naraht (talk) 13:48, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Hmm, this may simply have been an early error in transliteration by the original artist who, one assumes, had a natural English-language bias. I wouldn't know, but it is reasonable to guess that she or he didn't know classical or modern Greek. Even then, few students had a Classic language background. Once adopted, the tidy, completed crest simply continued with the small error (switching in the "Ε" where it should have been "Η"), hiding in plain sight in that third word at lower right, where it has been maintained through the years. --Most collegians wouldn't blink at it, while a Greek scholar would know that the letter "Θ" may be spelled out "θῆτα", using a mix of upper and lower case letters, OR rendered in all caps as "ΘΗΤΑ".
Of course there may be a ritualistic reason for the spelling. Members may have recognized the error over the years, and resolved to just let it be. But unless ΔΣΘ wants to discuss the matter here, I'd guess the simplest solution, that it is an error, is the correct solution. Jax MN (talk) 14:55, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
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