Talk:Father Divine

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George Baker[edit]

This name noted as "spurious"; can someone source where it was definitively proven to not be his name? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.117.159.232 (talk) 14:10, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting and bizarre article[edit]

What an interesting and bizarre article. TheKid 05:18, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I wanted to know what Mother Divine looks like. The International Peace Mission Movement's web site shows her and has some impressive building pictures that would improve this article. The web site says "Any and all of the material on this and other pages may be copied and reproduced, but not for profit." Milo 10:28, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Use of "the Messenger"[edit]

Does anyone else object to the use of "The Messenger" in referring to Father Divine? I realize that during one era of his life he called himself "The Messenger", but using this name in an encylopedia, even to refer to that era seems POV. It gives the impression that the author truly believed him to be "The Messenger"--a fact which should never reveal itself in an encyclopedic article. So, I changed "The Messenger" to "Father Divine", "Divine", or "He". I do not believe that this minor change obfuscates the meaning or clarity of the article, but improves it. If any controversy arises over this please discuss it here. Adambiswanger1 17:54, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

One should refer to Father Divine as "The Messenger" at the points in his history when he clearly did so, and that part currently seems to read ok. For most of the article it's a question of how most people referred to him, with due respect for whom he wished to be known as, while avoiding reader confusion. The International Peace Mission Movement's web site calls him "Father Divine". Milo 10:28, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV violations[edit]

Numerous sections of this article violate Wikipedia:NPOV. For example, "Father Divine is thought to be an influential and original African American religious figure whose reputation was marred by the countercult movement of the 1970s." Huh? Ecto 23:50, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV doesn't mean no POVs at all. If one accurately reports general knowlege, logical deductions, what Reliable Sources think, and both sides of POV controversies, it's not an NPOV violation. The first clause "influential and original African American religious figure" is general knowledge and/or logical by inspection of the article. The second clause "reputation was marred by the countercult movement of the 1970s" requires a Reliable Source statement. If you read the Reliable Source (PBS and AP for sure) external links, it's likely that you will find that fact stated there. Milo 10:28, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is....[edit]

A very good article... Never once heard about this dude before, either.. Precursor to the charismatic mega-church pastor, appears to me.. Very good article.. Chairman Sharif 19:29, 9 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad you like it. I also found him fascinating when I first heard of him. I've neglected this article for too long though. It needs to brought up to modern wikipedia policy standards. Cool Hand Luke 23:13, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• contribs) 06:15, 6 May 2008 (UTC) divine's organization allegedly didn't keep many records. yet at the time of his death, FIFTEEN secretaries were in attendance taking down his last words. the records of divine's organization are probably voluminous. they've just been salted away somewhere........................... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.206.70 (talk) 01:22, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is no shortage of records; I am the professional archivist at Father Divine's Library and Museum at Woodmont, which houses more than 100,000 letters, more than 250,000 photographs, more than 60 years of weekly publications in English and German, more than 4,000 audio recordings and more than 300 films, in addition to thousands of other artifacts, newsclippings, legal and business records, etc. It is one of the five largest archives devoted to any African-American. Very few journalists or academics actually visit the archives and hence perpetuate a great deal of misinformation. Christopher B. Stewart (talk) 20:47, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to thank you, Mr. Stewart, for all that you do to preserve the writings of Father Divine, who was inspired in ways few others have been, and who personally inspired, raised, and improved the lives of his many followers. He may not be well known now, but those of us who knew of Him in His lifetime are very appreciative of having been with us. David Spector (talk) 13:39, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Woodmont[edit]

The history of the turnover of Woodmont to Father Divine is almost certainly wrong. The following is from the Main Line newspaper in 2009:

"Even with all of the beauty of Woodmont, after her husband’s death, Mrs. Wood thought the mansion and estate “were too isolated” and sold the property to a nephew, Richard G. Wood. In 1929 he subdivided 73 acres of the estate, which included the manor house and five other buildings, and sold it to J. Hector McNeal, a corporate lawyer known for his horsemanship. Under his ownership, the interior of the main house underwent renovations.

But the estate was neglected for a number of years after the death of Mrs. McNeal. It was sold in 1953 to the International Peace Mission Movement and Father Divine for $75,000."

Other accounts agree with this. Mrs. McNeal was a follower of Father Divine and wanted him to have the estate, but apparently she did not give it to him directly. I can find no reference to a "John Devoute" (possibly that was Mrs. McNeal's adopted spiritual name ??). Ekconklin (talk) 19:59, 19 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why information and link on 'Edna Rose Ritchings' but not Penninah Divine?[edit]

Come on people, a background (+ wiki page) on Penninah Divine is just as warranted, afterall Penninah Divine (other name?) was around way before Edna Rose Ritchings (other name?), and therefore must of influenced what Father Divine came to do way before Edna even knew Father Divine and his church existed. No disrespected to Edna (:

Just because someone was in someone else's life earlier than another person is not of significance. WP requires that the information it provides is based on reliable sources and that the topic of the information, in this case a person, is notable. The person you mention was not a notable part of the life, especially the later and most visible part of the life of, Father Divine. On the other hand, Mother Divine was present and involved in all public activities of Father Divine, as well as a number of public activities of Her own, not to mention her central role after the death of Father Divine's body. David Spector (talk) 13:32, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Have added some additional information and references about Penninah Divine in the Father Divine article. I agree that 1st Mother Divine was more of a follower than a leader in her own right than 2nd Mother Divine and therefore not as notable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sfar13 (talk • contribs) 22:44, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]