Talk:God helps those who help themselves

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[Untitled][edit]

This phrase appears in Portal:Religion/Did you know/9.

Notes[edit]

Notes on sources for the article:

Too many times I have referenced sources as cited from random websites. This is because I do not have access to many of the sources firsthand; I hope you can assist here
Barna, p189, mentions "7 out of 10 believers..." but I can't view the rest of this quote in the Google Books preview...
Lutzer is apparently mistaken when he states 8 out of 10 Americans believe the phrase appears in the Bible (p173, citing Barna, however I can't view the footnote)

Colin MacLaurin (talk) 09:45, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just to note[edit]

The Christian belief about grace is also that while its offered by God to everyone, the person has to accept it from Him to receive it. This might not be a mater of helping oneself in a material way, but it is -- in once sense -- a matter of taking the first step. And in some cases, a sign of the spiritual turn in a person's heart might be that the person desires to do something which he considered too much of a burden before. Which is all that the phrase means : a person who is not working out of sloth, for instance, is in sin, and sin is a sign you're refusing God from your heart. So, from a personal perspective, I don't think its so much this saying is incompatible with Christian belief, though it may give the wrong emphasis and that may be what some Christians object to. / —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.240.161.245 (talk) 05:00, 16 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Aeschylus[edit]

The quotation from The Persians by Aeschylus does not bear out the assertion that it is an early instance of the proverb. The wording, in Gilbert Murray's translation is 'But when man hasteth of himself toward sorrow, God will help him on'. In other words, when someone is set on his own ruin, the gods will hasten it. The passage therefore bears a completely different meaning and I have removed it from the article. Mzilikazi1939 (talk) 14:37, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Christianity[edit]

Listing this article as falling within the Christianity Project is unacceptable. The proverbial sentiment it deals with considerably antedates Christianity, as was acknowledged by the 18th century Churchman Samuel Croxall in his commentary on "Hercules and the Carter" (Fable LVI). The proverb has also drawn comment from Muslim as well as Christian sources and is applicable to any religion that acknowledges a deity. Narrowing its scope is therefore exclusive and contentious. Mzilikazi1939 (talk) 14:55, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Colbert[edit]

I'm not sure how I feel about the statement that Colbert "concluded, in character", etc. I have viewed the footage in question and I feel this is one of the rare moments where Colbert clearly and intentionally stepped out of character to make a very serious statement that ran directly counter to the tongue-in-cheek views espoused by his TV personality. Didn't want to just change it willy-nilly, but would like some consideration. 143.85.2.20 (talk) 20:00, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Questionable Translation[edit]

This

And in the Hippolytus (428BC) of Euripides appears the speech, "Try 
first thyself, and after call in God; For to the worker God himself lends aid."

seems unlikely to be how Euripedes actually wrote it, since his plays refer to the Hellenic deities, rather than a monotheistic über-deity; there's no indication that I'm aware of that he was a monotheist. It's probably been Christianized; can we get a better source with the proper polytheistic phrasing? I'm not going to rewrite what we have, since Bartlett doubtless "quoted" it that way, but this should have a source that has a translation closer to what the original probably said.

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 17:33, 26 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Highly dubious to state as fact that "most Christians denouce Semi-Pelagianism as heresy"[edit]

This article states the following:

"The statement is often criticised as espousing Semi-Pelagian model of salvation, which most Christians denounce as heresy.[23][24]"

There are several problems with this statement.

First, the only supporting text in the source cites the opinions of councils on Pelagianism from Reformed Churches, which are steeped in Calvinism, so of course these will be opposed to a Semi-Pelagian soteriology, as Calvinism and Pelagianism are counter to each other. Reformed Churches are not representative of the much greater population of "most" Christians.
Secondly, whoever made this addition doesn't seem to recognize the difference between Pelagianism and Semi-Pelagianism.
Thirdly, I would guess (don't have data on hand) that most Christians follow an Arminian model of salvation, of which the subject "statement" might also espouse.
Finally, who is it that is "often" doing the criticizing?

How is it in Greek?[edit]

I suggest adding the original, Greek phrase to the article. It is hard to be found anywhere. And it would be helpful in discussion whether the translation is or is not adequate.

178.235.146.218 (talk) 12:12, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

God help those who help themselves[edit]

This quote is said by chankya in his book chankya neeti , page no 150(98) . Which was written far before benjamin Harshitraikwaar (talk) 17:00, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]