Talk:I Kissed Dating Goodbye

I do not think that this article does not conform to a neutral point of view; the way I read it, it was merely explaining the book, and Joshua Harris's views explained in the book. That would make the article not have any conflict with neutral point of view, but would rather make the book not conform to neutral point of view.

--Ibjt4ever 05:39, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I also read the article and does't think it is NPOV, "regardless of scriptural context." There should be some examples atleast.

The following section is in direct violation the rule that "This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject."

It is insulting, derogatory, and inflammatory. The validity of the content of the book is not up for debate - the article is informational in nature and the following section should be removed from discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.114.137.174 (talk) 01:21, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Total disgrace to our generation

I know some people will criticize my words as being "un-Christlike," or what have you, but this needs to be said. This man ruined a generation of Christians. His attrocity "I kissed dating goodbye" is required reading at some private Christian schools, endorsed by many Christian "celebrities," and has built up so many fears and insecurities in young people with regards to dating and the opposite sex it makes me wonder if anyone is capable of thinking for themselves these days. If you have a history of promiscuity or are weak in the flesh, yet desire a relationship with Christ, maybe Harris' teachings are right for you, but the fact is for many of us, there is nothing wrong with dating and getting comfortable around the opposite sex as we come of age. Especially not so that this book should be required reading at Christian schools. All of the awkwardness and introversion that plagues this generation needs to stop.

What amazes me is that in "I kissed dating goodbye," Harris describes his promiscuous lifestyle before accepting Christ. Is this someone we want telling us how it should be done? I can understand why an alcoholic would abstain completely from drinking alcoholic beverages, but does that mean I, a person with no history of alcohol abuse, shouldn't have a toast on New Year's Eve? Absolutely not. So why should anyone who hasn't had a problem with lust and promiscuity listen to this guy? Why should you limit a beautiful thing in your life, namely getting to know and feel comfortable around the opposite sex in your teens and twenties, because this guy blew it for himself? Look at his picture on the main page, for Heaven's sake. He is probably nearing his 30's, and he still dresses like some sort of hipster. What kind of grip on reality does this guy have?

We are living in the midst of a pornography emidemic brought on by the internet, and a media that tells our young people in movies, TV shows, and music that they are "missing out" if they don't sleep around. When people think of Christians, they think of Ned Flanders from the Simpsons or the Church Lady on SNL. How much longer is the church going sleep through this? How are we going to attract young people by telling them they shouldn't even date, especially when this philosophy isn't backed by scripture.

Young people, if you read this, please listen to me. It is OK to date and get to know the opposite sex. You don't want to be another Harris casualty, still scared and awkward of the opposite sex in your mid 20's. It is OK to kiss your boyfriend or girlfriend. All we, as Christians, believe is that marriage is sacred, and that you should not have sex before you are Married. (And that means ALL forms of sex. In other words, you need to respect each other and keep your clothes ON.) What you see on "Friends" and "Seinfeld," and in the videos on MTV is a lie. People who sleep around, even in the midst of "serious relationships," more often than not end up feeling empty and miserable inside. Don't you want someone you can spend and enjoy your life with, who will be there for you through thick and thin? Don't you want to wait and share those moments with them? It starts with becoming comfortable with the opposite sex, a.k.a, dating.

As a married Christian, I am glad I waited for my wife. And if you have slept around and desire a relationship with Christ, He still loves you and accepts you for who you are, but please help His cause by discouraging promiscuity. With all due respect, leave the teaching young people about dating and relationships to those of us who have done it right. Telling them they should obstain from it entirely is hurting our cause, and in my opinion, the inner spirits of young people.

If you don't believe me, there have been a few critiques of Harris' book written, and I encourage you to read them, especially if you have read, or someone forced you to read, "I Kissed Dating Goodbye."

I have said my peace. If you read this, thank you for your attention, and I hope I inspired you in some way. I know many people who, inspired by Harris, obstained from dating, and they are still awkward and lanky aroung the opposite sex into their mid 20's. They think marriage is just going to magically happen for them when it is "God's will." Please don't be one of them. Unless you are completely avoiding alcohol because you used to be a drunk, so to speak, I say... Men, get to know your women. Learn what they want from you, and how to fulfill them spiratually. Women, get to know your Men. Learn what they need you to be as a soul mate. Go listen to "Jack and Dianne" by Mellencamp a couple of times. Live and love while you still can.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Joshua_Harris"

1) This is an encyclopedia, not a discussion board soapbox to stand upon and spout your personal beliefs. 2) Before you criticize Joshua Harris, read all of his books and listen to some of his sermons. He specifically states in one sermon that it is OK for men and women to go have coffee together; that men and women should be able to hang out without the entire congregation asking them when their wedding date is. Before you judge Joshua Harris, do some research. Joshua Harris never says to avoid the opposite sex. That is a misrepresentation of his viewpoint. All he's saying is: don't date if you're not ready to consider marriage. 3) "Learn...how to fulfill them spiratually"?!? Are you honestly suggesting and instructing young people that in order to be spiritually fulfilled, they need to be married? That is far more harmful advise than anything Josh Harris has written. I've seen more people devestated because they built marriage up as the end-all of human existance. -- Jwinters | Talk 08:05, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Take a look at the recently added link. Here is what the author of the online books says in response to someone wanting an alternative: "I began to realize that the people who were asking that I propose an alternative to courtship were actually looking for an alternative set of techniques. Their thinking seemed to be something like this: if courtship is out then we must have some other system or formula to follow if we are to avoid the pitfalls of recreational dating. (The fact that millions of godly Christians throughout history have found love-filled and happy marriages without having a set of techniques to follow doesn’t seem to enter into the equation here.)" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geocacher301 (talk • contribs) 03:48, 20 January 2008 (UTC)Geocacher301 (talk) 18:39, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Again, the problem is that the author of the online books (and many detractors of Joshua Harris) failed to research what Joshua Harris intended in IKDG. He never intended to create a set of rules, and he has specifically stated this point numerous times. -- Jwinters | Talk 18:13, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Joshua Harris may well have never intended what he promoted to do what you said but his book sure lead to a lot of that and from what I can see he cavalierly "washes his hands" of any responsibility. A couple of good links that talk about this and what maybe he should have or could be doing vs. just saying he is sorry are:

http://ikdg.wordpress.com/2007/12/26/josh-harriss-view-on-people-using-his-book-legalistically/

http://ikdg.wordpress.com/2008/01/05/does-only-dating-have-defects-courtshipgroups-are-defect-free/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geocacher301 (talk • contribs) 16:42, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

This is going to be my last statement on the subject because I really don't want to get into a battle on wikipedia. (Because this isn't the place for it). He's not washing his hands of responsibility. His books clearly state that it's not about the set of rules you use. He decries people who are "serial courters". He clearly stated that he's trying to get young men and women to stop being self-seeking in relationships and seek the good of others. People took what he said out of context. In fact, my experience is that very few people who follow the extremes that you say have actually read his books. It's like the telephone game. One person hears a little bit about the book and tells their friends, those friends tell other friends, and soon enough, the entire message is distorted. If someone doesn't read it all the way, or completely misses what he says, that's not his fault. He's not "washing his hands", as you claim. He's stating a fact. If, for example. I took what you wrote to mean that Christians should run around and date and have lots of sex, then is it your fault that I did so? Absolutely not! The real disgrace to our generation is that so many people want a "quick fix" that they don't bother reading the book, or if they do, are so focused on a formula that they miss the entire point of the book. Jwinters | Talk 22:43, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Also, as far as Joshua Harris not doing anything, what about this? http://youtube.com/watch?v=IVJqlaNJRnw Please do some research before you try dragging his name through the mud. -- Jwinters | Talk 23:04, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Just so you know I had already watched the Harris clip on You Tube(a number of times I might add). Certainly he appears to have the right "heart" with his book. I have also read other posts he made or an interview he had to reach the conclusion. Sometimes a "right heart" isn't enough. I am not the one that posted "total discgrace" btw. I hope you looked at the two blog links. Geocacher301 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 05:26, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Discussion Link

Here is a link where the books is discussed (both positive and negative comments):

     http://forums.crosswalk.com/m_1687788/mpage_5/key_/tm.htm#2729942  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geocacher301 (talk • contribs) 20:06, 25 September 2007 (UTC) 

I find appalling that someone keeps removing my reporting some of the Christian Community's concerns with this book. Is this this policy of Wikipedia to allow only positive remarks about a book to be entered into Wikipedia? It sounds like someone is trying to silence any remarks that report any criticism of this book. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geocacher301 (talk • contribs) 20:41, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Here are some other links where the book and the group that Joshua Harris is a part of (Sovereign Grace) is discussed.

http://sguncensored.wordpress.com/

http://sgmsurvivors.com/

http://sgmsurvivors.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=15

www.ikdg.wordpress.com