Talk:Irmologion

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Help[edit]

I'm trying to clean up this article and make it more useful. The original author of this article aparrently spoke English as a second language. I've cleaned up the syntax wherever I can, and done my best to figure out what his or her intent was. But there are several items I've not been able to decipher:

Anthems in honour of the Virgin Mary for eight voices (what specifically is meant by "anthems"; what is meant by "eight voices"?)
Orthron anthems for three voices (what are "Orthron anthems"? what is meant by "three voices"?)
Songs of praise for feasts and saints (what specifically is meant by "Songs of praise"?)

Any help would be much appreciated. MishaPan (talk) 16:26, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Byzantine input needed[edit]

This article exclusively covers the Russian musical tradition, and treats it as universal. For instance, it states that a reader reads the verses of a canon, but in the Greek tradition all the verses are sung (traditionally antiphonally). Input from the Greek/Byzantine tradition would be helped. --99.24.170.188 (talk) 20:32, 17 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I see the problem, please have a look for my draft concerning the content. Of course, the Slavic reception as an interesting and important part of the history of the book. Platonykiss (talk) 20:34, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The problem has nothing to do with the Russian tradition, but with a confusion of the book Heirmologion, as it exists since the Stoudios reform, when it was invented as a notated chant book (please understand that the book was invented much later than the hymn genre of the canons), with the later chant book Ἀνθολογία τοῦ ὄρθρου or Псалтикиина Утренна, which is often used today. I added some editions as they are in use today.

Please be aware that these last contributions confuse readers with many misunderstandings:

Irmos is not an initial or concluding part of the Irmologion, it is the Irmologion, the troparia are not part of it, even if they are sung within the canon.
These troparia have been composed according to the model of avtomela, while the odes have a much more complex meter. Its poems are composed according to a melodic model which is called heirmos (εἱρμός). There are exceptional cases of aposticha or akrosticha which were directly composed with a certain irmos, but it is also a misunderstanding, since the original text which identfies the irmos, has not to be sung (not even at the beginning).
Within Orthodoxy "liturgical" usually refers to the Divine Liturgies which correspond roughly to the catholic Holy Mass (although the Latin formularies are much later), but the Irmologion is only sung during the morning service (Gr. Orthros, Sl. Utrenna). There is also the irmos Ἄξιον ἔστιν and its substitutes during the divine liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom, and sometimes heirmoi kalophonikoi might replace the regular koinonika, but all these customs have no direct connection with the odes of the canon and the book Irmologion, since all these compositions can be found in the Anthology of the divine liturgy.
The psalmodic recitation of the canticles was also practice within the cathedral rite in Constantinople (as it was in Milan, in both cases during the morning service), but it should not be confused with the monastic hymn genre like is the homiletic poetry of the heirmologion.

If you do have further questions, do not hesitate to ask them here. We are all here to learn from each other. Platonykiss (talk) 18:39, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The lead section[edit]

It was grammatically wrong and had definitions which revealed, that the last editor did not understand what she or he was talking about. Akrosticha is additional poetry which uses a heirmos, usually each ode is repeated several times, but the text is written in a seperated book without any notation called Menaion! The practice with incipit and modal signature (referring to a certain heirmos) is very similar to the way scribes did write down prosomoia which did refer to a certain avtomelon.

I deleted it now, because it is too much information for the leading section. I am not so happy about the orthography Irmos which is just the way, the Greek term was transliterated into Slavonic letters (kyrillica). --Platonykiss (talk) 17:06, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]