Talk:James F. Blake

Let's not Diminish Mr. Blake's 'Contribution' to the Civil Rights movement

In my opinion, this is an article for someone who is not of the requisite notoriety usually required for a separate Wikipedia article, and no more worthy than dozens of other mostly ancillary people who were involved in the Rosa Parks arrest or trial, including the policeman who arrested her, the judge in the trial, the guy who put the gas in the bus, etc.68.207.148.21 (talk) 16:35, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Well I have no idea how usefull this article is on Wikipedia but this article and the sources it refers to just really helped me out a lot. 83.82.91.193 (talk) 07:16, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

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Let's not continue to 'whitewash' history - pun intended... This bus driver was notorious for 'religiously' enforcing the 'Jim Crow' laws that pervaded the South at the time. He never once stated any reticence or regret for his inhumane treatment of the black bus passengers. No, James F. Blake, (the 'good Christian', according to a fellow church member at the time of his death,) had repeatedly driven past African Americans waiting at the bus stops on his route. Also, it was reported that on a previous occasion after a similar 'request', Mrs. Parks only left the bus after he motioned to 'hit her and throw her off' if she did not comply, (she was 5'2", and about 100 lbs!). Blacks were expected to board the bus, pay the fare, get off of the bus and re-board through the rear 'Colored' entrance, as they could not walk past and 'offend' the white passengers. Also, because blacks could not share a row with whites, FOUR black people had to stand in the aisle in the rear of the bus to allow the one white man to sit down. (How chivalrous!). Three black passengers complied with his 'request', while Mrs. Parks ultimately refused to move. (She had previously, on an earlier occasion, paid her fare and got off of the front of the bus to reboard the 'suggested' rear entrance, only to watch him drive off and leave her to walk home in the drenching rain). Even in his eighties, Blake could not simply admit he enforced the racist policies in effect at the time that completely violated and disenfranchised the 65% of Montgomery's residents who were African American. The segregation law was only changed when the nearly-empty buses had been running and losing money for over a year (381 days) after the impromptu bus boycott was enacted. The city even tried to outlaw the black ad-hoc carpools that were formed to get African Americans to and from their jobs to force them to return to the buses apd resume paying to be discriminated against. The effort to ban the carpools failed. The buses were only desegregated after the bus companies were almost bankrupted due to the loss of revenue, not out of some charitable need or acts of human kindness to their previously oppressed passengers. Bus desegregation only mattered when money was involved...

This was NOT just another white man 'doing his job'; this bigot took particular pains to denigrate his customers, and, because he carried a gun, was able to enforce the 'law' - and his beliefs. In a later interview with the (British) Guardian newspaper, Mr. Blake claimed that he did not notice her black skin, he just thought she would be 'more comfortable' giving up her seat and standing in the aisle with her other (just-moved) Negro 'friends'. When asked why he thought the other passengers were 'her friends', he replied, 'Well, they were all Negroes, weren't they?' (But he didn't notice her Black skin?? Seriously?) Was he really more concerned about keeping her from her 'friends'? He had her arrested when she did not want to join her recently-relocated friends in the aisle of the bus, opting to keep her seat instead. What a compassionate man! Due to his cruelty, Mrs. Parks, when she recognized him, took personal pains to avoid the buses HE drove - her words, not mine - due to his particular offensiveness as compared to the other drivers who also enforced the laws. This is a little 'different' than the guy who just pumped gas, or the two embarrassed police officers who were ultimately called to have her arrested and removed from the bus. (I don't give the Judge a pass either.) This is an example of the 'duplicity and deceit' that good Christian Southerners employed to justify the horrible racist policies that were the 'norm' at the time for most of the South. These people even considered themselves 'good Christians' in the eyes of God. See the entire Guardian interview with Mr. Blake below:

````Truth Teller — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.79.180.228 (talk) 12:52, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

References

Untitled

This page was a November 21, 2005 Gannett News Service web recommendation.

Bash bash

He lived entirely too long.

That's a pretty terrible thing to say about anyone. -Silence 21:01, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

That's not very nice, but he was probably pretty disgraced by the 1970s when society in general looked down on his actions. Imagine forever being known as the guy who tried to make Rosa Parks stand.

66.75.49.213 04:56, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

What would have happened if he followed orders? He'd have suffered a complaint from one of the white passengers, and would have lost his job. It's not as if it was state sanctioned murder. - Reapermage1990 11:18 7th Dec 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Reapermage1990 (talk • contribs) 11:19, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

But he didn't need to leave her in the rain, especially after she paid the fare. That's more or less stealing her money.-Babylon pride (talk) 01:34, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I had my orders

This bit "That damn bus was full and she wouldn't move back. I had my orders." links to the Superior Orders article which discusses the Nuremberg defence. Seems odd. He was just a bus driver.

I removed it. Seems inflammatory and unsubstantiated. Jbmcb (talk) 03:01, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

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Re: The Notorious Mr. Blake - I don't know why it was removed. This excuse ('I was only following orders') was exactly the same one used by many of the Nazi Generals and soldiers accused of atrocities against other minority populations at the time (primarily the Jewish populations under their control). I have not heard of Mr. Blake ever apologizing for his discriminatory actions against Mrs. Parks or any other minorities, or regretting enforcing the dehumanizing laws in place in Montgomery and most of the South at the time. (Although, I am willing to bet he wished it had happened to some other driver). If 'following orders' was unacceptable at Nuremberg in the trials in the 1940s, why should he be allowed a pass a decade later? To my knowledge, Mr. Blake never apologized or showed any remorse for his rigorous enforcement of these racist practices. He was more than 'just' a bus driver - Mrs. Parks personally stated that he often drove past Blacks waiting for buses, and was known for being particularly crude and rude to Black passengers. If Mrs. Parks had not moved back on a previous occasion, he had threatened to strike her, and physically remove her from the bus. She got off as ordered, and watched the bus drive away. (See her book for reference). Mr. Blake continued driving buses for the next 19 years in Montgomery, so it may be a given that he was forced to change with the times.

Why was the comparison with the German excuses not apropo? If you deem the comparison 'inflammatory', perhaps you are still not ready to confront the well-documented racist and unfair practices embedded in the South at the time? True, racist policies also existed in the rest of America as well, but were not as 'codified' into every facet of American life for 'Negroes' at the time. Separate schools, churches, bathrooms, eateries, beaches, hotels and even water fountains were the law of the land, and violators were rigorously prosecuted. Remember, Americans held 'Lynch Parties' in town squares throughout the South when Lynchings of uppity Blacks were scheduled, complete with selling treats and drinks, and in one case, even tickets! Also, marrying 'outside your race' was actually a crime, punishable by jail time - see Miscegenation. Hope that doesn't seem 'inflammatory', too! The 'Just my job' excuse didn't work for the German soldiers a decade earlier, so why give racist Southerners a pass now?

In short, James Blake loved his job, and constantly proclaimed, 'I was only following orders.' Sounds familiar to the lame excuses and the exact words used by Nazis to persecute other populations and willfully commit atrocities. Contrary to the recidivist opinion of the individual who deleted the comparison to Nazi excuses, these practices and excuses have been thoroughly substantiated. The excuse of 'just doing my job' doesn't seem inflammatory to me, and the similarities are merely a factual comparison to the same unacceptable Nazi ones.

When compared to the identical - but failed - Nuremberg excuses, I fail to see the difference... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.79.180.228 (talk) 14:27, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Parks voluntarily leaves?

One day in 1943, Parks boarded his bus and paid the fare. She then moved to her seat but Blake asked her to follow his rules and enter the bus again from the back door. Parks walked off but did not board again

Currently the implication is that Parks refused to take the bus ride she had already paid for.

However, one of the other sources for this article (The Guardian) implies Parks was left behind intentionally by Blake in an apparent petty action

This wording is clearly inaccurate. It whitewashes James' actions, and vioates the NPOV of Wikipedia. Contrast it with the description of the same incident from the entry on Rosa Parks: As she began to exit by the front door, she dropped her purse. Parks sat down for a moment in a seat for white passengers, apparently to pick up her purse. The bus driver was enraged and barely let her step off the bus before speeding off. Rosa walked more than five miles home in the rain.

I changed this wording to be more accurate. T-bonham 09:44, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I thought that after he asked her to move and reenter through the back door, he drove off before she could get to the back..98.203.244.121 (talk) 17:27, 24 May 2009 (UTC)chrty

Parks was immoral

Even in doing his "job", he was violating the responsible thing to do. "It is immoral not to break unjust laws."

He wasn't necessarily doing an irresponisble thing, just an immoral one.99.40.251.176 (talk) 22:50, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't say that he was wrong in not breaking the law - he was wrong in the way he enforced the optional rules.

He was wrong. He was a racist.

Maybe so but the guy was a product of the time and place he lived in. We'd all like to think we'd do the right thing in his place, but who knows? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.204.92.202 (talk) 01:53, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

We know nothing about the inner workings of the man's mind. It is too easy to say he was a product of the time and place he lived in since that is a common bromide in our time, yet there was just as much controversy and diverging opinions in the past as there are today. By no means did everyone at the time harbour racial prejudices. Regardless of Blake's own personal views, he did have a job to do and what "the right thing" was is debatable. In my former job as a bartender, I most certainly did discriminate between men and women, for instance. Whenever a customer asked me to show them the way to the lavatories, I invariably pointed women to one door and men to the other (in spite of my personal belief that such a separation is largely unnecessary). Perhaps in a few more decades this will be considered sexist and I will be smeared on a Wikipedia article for once having kicked a man out of the ladies' room.109.58.201.71 (talk) 07:59, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Parks wasn't "asked"!

Mr. Blake did not "ask" or "request" that Parks leave and reënter through the back, or that Parks and the others relinquish their seats. By all reliable accounts in specific and known historic attitudes in general, he *told* them; he *ordered* them. Verbs changed to reflect fact.

Earlier Parks - Blake run in

The info on the earlier Parks - Blake run in is somewhat unclear and contradictory. According to this article which is supported by the Guardian article she paid, tried to go to her seat but was ordered to get off and reboard at the back which she did at which point he drove off before she could reboard at the back. According to the Rosa Parks article, she dropped her purse and sat on a 'white-only' seat while picking it up. This infruated him so much that he drove off without her when she got off to reboard at the back. Of course perhaps both of these happen but it would be best if this could be clarified with further sourcing hi im willie . Nil Einne 14:17, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Regardless, still makes him a nasty excuse for a human being. - 149.135.146.49 (talk) 20:24, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Klan

I heard he was in the KKK —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.20.3.133 (talk) 19:44, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

The Klan wasn't hugely active at the time -- and this sounds like a pile-on. The guy already had the misfortune to be the face of White Segregation, does he need to be a Klansman, as well? (Unless, of course, he actually was. I'm just saying, without any evidence, there's no real reason to suppose he was a Klan member.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.56.24 (talk) 09:37, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Name?

What was his middle name?? I dont know why but it bothers me when it puts just a letter for a middle name and never once explains or tells what the name is. I cannot find it anywhere and it would actually be of great help for something I am writing for a class at school. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.203.244.121 (talk) 17:14, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Probably too late for your book report, but I managed to resolve the mystery. The middle name was Fred. gidonb (talk) 12:30, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Blake's race?

What ethnicity was Blake? This seems pertinent to the segregation issue. (I'm not American, I have little knowledge of American history) Andrew Oakley (talk) 15:01, 29 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ftbnubs123 (talk • contribs) 19:29, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

False information? (Possibly)

If blake was in the Army during WWII, how could he have kicked Parks off of a bus in 1943? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ftbnubs123 (talk • contribs) 19:31, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

It's possible he was drafted later on; the war in Europe didn't end until April/May 1945. It also doesn't say when in 1943 that the first encounter happened. It's also possible he had already put his year in; we entered the war on December 7, 1941. It's pretty obvious that Parks and Blake would have been quite familiar with each other by 1955 in such a small city if she rode the bus daily for at least 12 years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.1.156.204 (talk) 08:21, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

1943 event date

Is it possible the 1943 Parks/Blake encounter was actually from 1953? DulcetTone (talk) 16:39, 1 December 2010 (UTC) Sheesh, I missed that someone had already brought this up. That'll teach me to actually read the whole darn page ; Per this, I'm gonna agree -- is it possible this was in 1953, instead of 1943? 12 years seems way too long. Plus, the 1943 date seems to conflict with the WW2 service mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.56.24 (talk) 09:34, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Year of first encounter?

Nothing inherently wrong, but I'm somewhat amazed that there was a 12-year span between the "James Blake drove away leaving Rosa Parks standing there" incident, and the famous 1955 incident. Also, the article notes that James Blake served in the European theatre of WW2; is the 1943 date verifiably correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.56.24 (talk) 09:33, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Poor guy.

I always wonder what it must be like to be remembered like this. Did he have family? Did he have a child or a wife? Would anyone care? I hope someone remembers who he was to the people he loved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.193.7.32 (talk) 00:21, 28 May 2011 (UTC) DONT USE THIS WEBSITE YOU COULD TYPE ANYTHING YOU WANT THESE THINGS ARENT FACTS LEAVE NOOOWW!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.88.226.178 (talk) 01:07, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Army service info

I found his enlistment record, but I'm not convinced the URL is concise nor stable enough to use. He enlisted on December 23, 1943, and his Army serial number is 34916575. http://aad.archives.gov/aad/record-detail.jsp?dt=893&mtch=115&cat=all&tf=F&q=James+Blake&bc=&sort=24983%20desc&rpp=50&pg=1&rid=5290128&rlst=6037676,8252568,5290128,7983544,4569979,2305322,2297681,5438697,5336671,5335899

Krushia (talk) 20:34, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm not saying I like him or anything, but I can't blame him for calling the cops on Parks. He was just doing his job and following the law, and if that was the law he was going to obey it. Speedalash (talk) 01:33, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Data from enlistment record

I added some data from Blake's enlistment record, which someone has already posted a link to. I considered his marital status and education as relevant to the article, as well as the "Component of the Army" field: 7 - Enlisted Men (selectees), which means he was drafted. Being drafted doesn't mean anything about his service, of course, but it does mean he did not enlist voluntarily.

He was inducted at Fort McClellan, Alabama, which might be of some interest because the camp is named after Union Civil War General George B. McClellan. I couldn't find any other information using his Army serial number.

Roches (talk) 10:44, 9 April 2014 (UTC) James Fred Blake — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.59.10.59 (talk) 02:14, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

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Phone call

When he “called the company” was it by radio, or is he using a roadside public phone? Did he call the police just after the boss, or after kicking her off, or even later? MBG02 (talk) 04:24, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

So I’ve now discovered (from a link in the archives of Talk:Rosa Parks) that the police turned up within minutes. Still like to know how that happened! MBG02 (talk) 05:53, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Contradiction in James F. Blake and Rosa Parks Wikipedia page

In Rosa Parks page

"One day in 1943, Parks boarded a bus and paid the fare. She then moved to a seat, but driver James F. Blake told her to follow city rules and enter the bus again from the back door. When Parks exited the vehicle, Blake drove off without her.[30] Parks waited for the next bus, determined never to ride with Blake again.[31]"

But this page says

"Years before, in 1943, Parks had boarded a bus driven by Blake. She entered the front door of that bus and paid her fare—as she continued on to take a seat, Blake told her to disembark and enter the bus again from the back door, a rule imposed by some drivers. She got off and decided to wait for the next bus rather than enter through the rear door."

I am not sure which of the provided information is right. Kindly make the necessary edit in whichever page necessary. LakshmanReddy72 (talk) 13:17, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

I have read the citation provided. The same has been provided for Rosa Parks page as well.

The article doesn't mention whether he left without waiting for Rosa Parks or not. But it does state it was common practice. LakshmanReddy72 (talk) 17:16, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

@RegentsPark: I would like to have your input for this edit. LakshmanReddy72 (talk) 17:32, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

I didn’t know “racist” was an occupation

Lol lmao 69.80.134.225 (talk) 23:09, 8 December 2022 (UTC)