Talk:Jersey City, New Jersey/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Publishing

Would a local newspaper(s) and other publishers warrant a section (or at least a mention) in this article? AnonUser 16:28, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Missing Picture Removed

I removed the following link to a missing picture image link from the article and put it here temporarily until someone finds it:

The article benefitted from the picture. If anyone knows where it went and could reupload it? Alansohn 03:02, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Transportation

Is a list of highways, subway lines, and their stops really encyclopedic? The entries for Hoboken and other area cities don't include such lists. --Tysto 14:13, 2005 August 3 (UTC)

I don't see why not. Their stops have or will have articles. --SPUI (talk) 23:55, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
Hoboken has one PATH stop, hence its not having a list of stops. It wouldn't me much of a list. --69.141.29.225 04:19, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

JCMC

Christmas Eve, climbing from Staten Island on Ocean Avenue towards Journal Square, I saw a collection of very imposing gray buildings on the skyline. Pedalling on over, I found the Jersey City Medical Center with a 1936 cornerstone. Apparently the decrepit old buildings have been abandoned and are being turned into residential condominiums. Does this former institution have a story that should be told? Jim.henderson 03:19, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

see Jersey City Medical Center —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk • contribs) 05:41, 25 December 2006 (UTC).
Splendid; thanks. I don't know how I missed it in previous searches. Please, someone, if my mention in the present article is inaccurate, misplaced or otherwise poor, move or improve it.
It was also a little difficult finding the article about JFK Boulevard. This summer while bicycling through Secaucus to Staten Island I chatted with some old folks who recommended climbing to "The Boulevard". They hadn't heard of JFK Blvd but I assume it's the same street.
Jim.henderson 16:04, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Other Noteable Jersey Cityans: Michael O'Koren = Basketball All - American North Carolina and NBA player (NJ Nets) James Sparnakel = Basketball ALL- American, Duke University and NBA player (Dallas Mavericks) Jim McMahon = Football All-American quarterback and NFL (Chicago Bears) John Valentin = Baseball - Seton Hall and Boston Red Sox 3rd baseman

Ellis Island

Does anyone know why this was removed? I am going to restore it until I someone explains why it was removed. The court case deciding the ownership of Ellis Island was well publicized. I will add references.

The Statue of Liberty stands on Liberty Island and its address is 1 Communipaw Avenue, Jersey City, though the statue is maintained by the National Park Service. Likewise, Ellis Island is inside Jersey City's borders, but is managed jointly by the states of New Jersey and New York. The body of water that surrounds both islands is known as New York Harbor.

Liberty Island is not in NJ, as the Liberty Island page explains at some length. The address according to both the park service [2] and the postal service is Liberty Island, NY, NY 10004. 12.47.208.34 21:27, 1 May 2007 (UTC)


I removed the part about the murders. I don't believe mentioning that belongs here, let alone on the introduction.

Population Discrepancy

There seems to be a discrepancy in the population figure for 1970. The cources cited give two different figures. Here they are:

260,545: http://www.census.gov/population/documentation/twps0027/tab20.txt

260,350: http://www.wnjpin.net/OneStopCareerCenter/LaborMarketInformation/lmi01/poptrd6.htm

The 260,350 figure is the one that appears in the chart. However, if we went with 260,545, the percent-change figures would also change slightly. The loss from 1960 to 1970 would be -5.6%, and the loss from 1970 to 1980 would be -14.2%.

Which source should we trust?

Mistermind 15:29, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I think we should go for the data from 1970 census, pop. 260,545, for decadely census data is the only "official" source for population; estimate is estimate. Yassie 05:02, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that there are any oil refineries in Jersey City.

Checking punctuation

17-Aug-2007: Note that Wikipedia uses "logical quotation marks" with punctuation outside unless stating a direct quote:

  • Right: The 3 Stooges were named "Larry", "Moe", and "Curly".
  • Wrong: The 3 Stooges were named "Larry," "Moe," and "Curly."
  • Right: Einstein said, "Education is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18."
  • Wrong: W. Edwards Deming said, "There is no substitute for knowledge". (put period inside of direct quotations)

Note that typical American quotation marks are often interleaved with commas, not logically paired in the Wikipedia style. The use of logical quotation marks is similar to the nested pairing found in computer-language usage. -Wikid77 17:49, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

New Jersey Road Map

Though the contribution is appreciated, a road map of New Jersey's major highways and mention of nearby towns doesn't seem to add much to the article. The other map, which seems standard for Wikipedia, may be less colorful, already indicates JC's location within the state. Are there strong objections to removing it, or at least making it smaller and re-locating to a different section, such as transportation????Djflem 10:29, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Cemetery deletion

Please voice an opinion as to whether the cemetery should be deleted from Wikipedia at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of burials at Bayview Cemetery, Jersey City. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 19:57, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

original World Trade Center Plotters

Met in an apartment in Jersey City. The plotters anatagonised the locals with their behaviour (basically scofflaw) (double parking and blocking in residents while they plotted). The blind Sheik strolled about acompanied by large palestinians. The idea for the 9/11 demolition was given by a so called terror expert on one of the major channels during the nights following the first explosion, he stated if you really want to bring down the towers you crash a plane loaded with fuel into the buildings. It was only good polcing that protected the local muslim population from vigilante justice,on the nights following the first explosion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paleocon (talk • contribs) 16:31, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

هاي —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.185.131.20 (talk) 04:25, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

External Link - JCTransit.com

I posted a link to www.jctransit.com in the external links section of Jersey City's listing on wikipedia and it was subsequently removed. I read the terms and while I understand the potential of conflict of interest which was noted, JCTransit.com is a free website which fills a large gap of missing public transportation info for jersey city residents. The site is a free directory which offers unique info and tools to aide residents in navigating jersey city's fragmented transit system. I think that if you were to check out the site you would instantly see the value it offers to jersey city residents and it would validate its inclusion in the jersey city wiki links section. thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kjburke1 (talk • contribs) 23:10, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Official name

Okay, the article title's, as well as the most common usage throughout the article, implies that it's "Jersey City". A paragraph in the Geography section states that it is "City of Jersey". And the "Official Title" field in the infobox on the side gives the redundant "City of Jersey City". So... which is it? All I know is "City of Jersey City" just looks wrong to me. Lurlock (talk) 16:55, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

  • Not an error. Click on the city's website in the infobox and notice the copyright notice. This is a common construction where the first part describes the legal status of the community which happens to use city or town or village in its name. So you end up with contradictory ones as well like "City of Lathrup Village". Rmhermen (talk) 13:57, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

White Manna

What neighborhood is White Mana in? I wanted to add a link to that article here but I'm not familiar with Jersey City. Thanks. howcheng {chat} 18:23, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

The Western Slope —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.82.236.8 (talk) 06:26, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Sister Cities

Someone recently added some city in India and it made me wonder where these references come from. If you look at the official website, there are no sister cities for Jersey City. Please guide me in the right direction, where to confirm these cities, otherwise they will have to be removed.

See for yourself: http://www.sister-cities.org/directory/index.cfm Stepanstas (talk) 03:16, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Neighborhoods

Though in the Heights doesn't The Western Slope qualify as a dinsticnt neighborhood?????

Maybe some of the neighborhoods can be given their own page with links from here, so more info and pics of each neighborhood can be shown.

From the link at the top of the neighborhood section is there a way to make a box of neighborhoods like in the Newark page.

Is there a public domain map showing neighborhoods that we could use? (Like the one for Brooklyn at http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/neighbor/neighl.shtml .) Constructive 17:44, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I didn't remove it, but the sentence "Newport had a hand in the renaissance of Jersey City although, before ground was broken, much of the downtown area had already begun a steady climb (much like Hoboken)" seems biased as specifically trying to avoid crediting redevelopment. Newport may not deserve credit for starting the renovation of other parts of Jersey City, but at the same time it is incorrect that those parts were significantly self-improving in 1985 (when Newport started). It is also factually incorrect to make any sort of Hoboken connections since Hoboken was and is a very different place (no office buildings, limited redevelopment, strong residential housing stock) than Jersey City. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.73.168.2 (talk) 22:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the unsourced material on Neighborhoods, and moved it here, pending proper sourcing per WP:V/WP:NOR Nightscream (talk) 05:54, 25 October 2010 (UTC):

Downtown (partial)

Exchange Place, the first part of Jersey City to redevelop, was built on the grounds of the old Jersey City Penn Station, ferry and shipping terminals. It is now a bustling business and financial district.

To the west lie three brownstone neighborhoods with protected historic districts — Hamilton Park, Van Vorst Park, and Harsimus Cove — separated from the waterfront by a legacy of older infrastructure, big-box development, and old warehouses still awaiting re-use.

Paulus Hook is another neighborhood with a historic designated zone. It borders Exchange Place and Liberty State Park on the waterfront, and blends older brownstone-lined streets with newer luxury developments. The Essex Street stop on the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail cuts through the southern portion of the neighborhood. The area has become increasingly active with development to the east and the construction of the light rail; many of its streets are lined with shops, and restaurants with outdoor seating.

Journal Square

Once the commercial heart of Jersey City, Journal Square is in the process of rehabilitation, in part because of the efforts of the Journal Square Restoration Corporation (JSRC) and the Jersey City Economic Development Corporation (JCEDC). Here, Kennedy Boulevard and Bergen Avenue, main thoroughfares in the city, are at their widest, lined on both sides by brick houses and medium-density apartment complexes. The Stanley Theater, currently a Jehovah's Witness meeting hall, and Loew's Jersey Theater on Kennedy Boulevard are among the city's most noted landmarks, and are two of the best preserved movie palaces in the Tri-State area. Directly across Kennedy Boulevard from the Loews is the Journal Square Transportation Center (JSTC), which houses the Journal Square PATH station and the city's largest bus terminal. Saint Peter's College is located about 10 blocks south of Journal Square in the McGinley Square section of Jersey City. To the north of the square on Newark Avenue lies India Square, home to over 100 Indian businesses, and one of the largest Indian neighborhoods in New Jersey. To the south of the square near Five Corners lies the Hudson County Courthouse, St Joseph's Church, Dickinson High School, The Dante Alghieri Society which was New Jersey's first Italian-American Society, and the island area.

West Side

Jersey City's West Side is very diverse and includes the neighborhoods of the Marion Section, Lincoln Park/West Bergen, the Hackensack Riverfront, Droyer's Point, and New Jersey City University. Many ethnic grocery shops (Filipino, Indian, West Indian, Latino, Black) line West Side Avenue, which runs from Broadway to Danforth Avenue. U.S. Route 1/9 Truck bisects Lincoln Park. West of New Jersey Route 440 is the Hackensack Riverfront including Hudson Mall, Jersey City Incinerator Authority, and Droyer's Point.

Greenville

Greenville lies between the Bayonne city line to the south and the Hudson Bergen Light Rail lines to the north. It is primarily residential with a principal commercial corridor at Danforth Avenue. The Greenville Yards (a former Conrail rail yard now being used as a distribution center), Port Jersey, Port Liberté (high-end gated residential community) and Caven Point on the Upper New York Bay are separated from the older neighborhoods by the New Jersey Turnpike Newark Bay Extension. Greenville has some of the most depressed areas in the city, but is slowly being revitalized, particularly along the light rail line. The crime rate is higher here than in any other part of Jersey City and many streets are lined with abandoned homes, but municipal aid over the past few years has helped in rebuilding many of them and in bringing life back to many of Greenville's neglected streets. With the gentrification of the downtown area, many of the city's working-class tenants have moved into this area.

The Heights

Jersey City Heights (aka "The Heights") is a neighborhood atop the New Jersey Palisades overlooking Hoboken and the Hudson River to its east and the New Jersey Meadowlands to the west. It consists mostly of two- and three-family houses, and remains traditionally middle-class. The primary commercial strip is Central Avenue. Six blocks to the east, and parallel to it, are Palisade and Ogden Avenues, both of which offer views of the Manhattan skyline from Riverview-Fiske Park. The light rail station at Congress and Ninth Streets connects this area of the Heights to the Hoboken PATH train and New Jersey Transit trains. Many stately Victorian and Edwardian homes contribute to the attractiveness of the Heights, particularly along Summit Avenue and Sherman Place as well as areas to the east of Central Avenue. Pershing Field is a park near the center of this district, offering green space, a running track, several trap houses, basketball and tennis courts, a semi-Olympic size swimming pool and an ice skating rink. Adjacent to Pershing Field Park is an abandoned reservoir which constitutes one of the largest patches of green space in the city. The future of the reservoir has been hotly contested as business interests, city government, and environmentalist groups have each proposed a different use for the land though it has announced that the city has decided to move forward with plans to develop the reservoir into a nature preserve open to the public.

No flag?

There is no flag on the infobox, and I started to wonder since the City has almost 250 000 of population. So I googled it and found that there actually is a flag for Jersey City. For example the 'American City Flags Survey' has it on #87 with also image of the flag. So I'm asking is there a reason for not including the flag? 82.141.125.215 (talk) 03:01, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

File:JerseycityNASA.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Merge Newport 10000?

I just became aware of our article on the Newport 10000 race, which is currently unreferenced and seems of local interest at best. The only secondary source I found is the Jersey Journal article on the 2012 race. Per WP:LOCAL, it probably should not have a stand-alone article. Should we merge it into this article? Otherwise I'll nominate it for deletion. Huon (talk) 23:10, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

History

In general, the history section seems unbalanced, there being a significant lack of information about early 19th century, when much of downtown JC was laid out. Hamilton's and other's attempts to develop the city, stymied by New York's claims of a boundary to the water's edge and control of ferry franchises, the expanision of the town town/village at Bergen Square would seem to belong in this article. I will make attempts to add and hope others who are interested will do same Djflem 11:05, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm new to this editing. I did make an edit a couple days ago and provided sources but it has been removed. Can someone explain why. The information I edited is egregiously in error.Tomcalwriter (talk) 02:23, 24 August 2013 (UTC) User: tomcalwriter

Edit request on 22 August 2013

During the 19th century, 60,000 former slaves reached Jersey City on one of the four routes of the Underground Railroad that led to the city. This needs to be edited. The total of 60,000 former slaves would be a good estimate of all the former slaves that crossed the Mason Dixon line from Missouri to Delaware; though estimates go as high as 100,000 (Siebert, Underground Railroad: From Slavery to Freedom, 1898: 237; Bordewich, Bound for Canaan, 2005: 435-436). How many reached Jersey City is impossible to estimate because there are no records from which to compute this, and any total would be simply a guess. The total alleged by the reporter is not an educated guess. Several thousand might be possible but that is probably inflated. Considerably more than 5,000 probably came thru NYC but many of those came by ships from the South directly into NY Harbor. Tomcalwriter (talk) 02:10, 22 August 2013 (UTC) Tom Calarco

Done The source of the claim is no longer available and you make a good argument based on sources which describe the total. I'll remove the number boldly. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 22:31, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 24 August 2013

60,000 fugitive slaves DID NOT pass through Jersey City. The source is egregiously in error. Perhaps 60,000 crossed the Mason Dixon Line from Missouri to Delaware during the entire antebellum period. More like hundreds would be closer to the truth as to the number passing through Jersey City. I made this edit request a couple of days ago, but do not see any changes, and in fact, it appears it was removed. In truth, there is no way to accurately compute this number for the nation, but such a high figure would be impossible for Jersey City. [1] These scholarly books estimate the total for the entire nation during the entire period to be from 50-to-100,000. Tomcalwriter (talk) 02:39, 24 August 2013 (UTC) User: tomcalwriter / Tom Calarco

Done Celestra (talk) 22:32, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Wilbur Siebert, From Slavery to Freedom, New York: Macmillan, 1898: 237; Fergus Bordewich, Bound for Canaan, New York: Harper-Collins, 2004: 435-436

Education

I'm removing the claim for St. Peter's Prep being one of the best high schools in the state. Is there anything we can point to as a source for this?

The Education section refers to several neighborhoods which have yet to be introduced. Should we move this section to a position below the Neighborhoods section? AnonUser 16:05, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

If Saint Mary's school and Saint Anthonys is here, I think Saint Bridgets, should be added. Saint Bridgets is a sister school of both of those schools. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.149.231.60 (talk) 19:05, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Some of the Catholic elementary schools mentioned are now closed as of September 2013. There are 5 Catholic elementary school in operations according to the Archdiocese of Newark (listed in Catholicschoolsnj.org). These are: St. Aloysius Elementary Academy, St. Joseph School, St. Nicholas School, Our Lady of Czestochowa School, Sacred Heart School and St. Nicholas School. The other schools are closed. (PAH) September 16, 2013

We need to cite reliable, sources for material that we add to the article. Nightscream (talk) 05:41, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Structure

Hi. I'm going through all the US Cities (as per List of United States cities by population) in an effort to provide some uniformity in structure. Anyone have an issue with me restructuring this article as per Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/US Guideline. I won't be changing any content, merely the order. Occasionally, I will also move a picture just to clean up spacing issues. I've already gone through the top 20 or so on the above list, if you'd like to see how they turned out. Thoughts? Onel5969 (talk) 20:00, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Jersey City and its Historic Sites by Harriet Phillips Eaton

Here is a reference that may be a good source for expanding this article: Jersey City and its Historic Sites by Harriet Phillips Eaton http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/47936 Eastmain (talk • contribs) 04:53, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Lead image for the page

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Image 3 has broadest support. If evidence emerges that (a) one user is systematically replacing images with their own or (b) another user is following them round starting RfCs on the basis that the other user created the image, expect administration of the WP:TROUT. Guy (Help!) 23:56, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
WPPilot's image
The image that was in the article before WPPilot replaced it
An image with substantially the same content as WPPilot's

Please respond here to see what photo should be lead image on this page talk→ WPPilot  06:37, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

The first image, which WPPilot fails to mention is his, is dark, and very hard to see at infobox size. The second one (which I didn't "insert" I restored from before WPP replaced it) is better, but not great. In fact, the third one is an cleaner and clearer aerial view which I think is better. BMK (talk) 06:48, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
I've put the third on in the infobox. There might still be something better on Commons. BMK (talk) 06:55, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
Once again BMK creates his own consensus and executes it luckily split, who need a consensus when BMK is in charge..talk→ WPPilot  07:19, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
You might take a look at WP:BOLD.

If a consensus forms here in favor of one of the other images, or about another one entirely, I have no problem conforming to that decision. BMK (talk) 07:24, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

In the meantime, don't you think that the 3rd image is the best choice of these three? BMK (talk) 07:26, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Frankly speaking yes I do, but let me add that it is a bit washed out, and with color correction I feel that my photo has more vibrance..Also the third photo is out of balance, in the sky is not square to the photo, like mine is. Does that mean that we should march onto the site and post it, no I have request that others provide feedback. This is how things such as this should be resolved, not slamming home your POV and pulling the drop rope on the chopping block seconds after you convince yourself of something. This way we get a real general consensus in play. talk→ WPPilot  07:41, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

  • Support using rightmost picture in this instance. Op47 (talk) 16:46, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Support using the third from the left. I understand WP's point about lack of balance, the first one, with the 3 segments (water, land, sky) has better composition, but the contrast in the third is better. I would prefer #2 over #1, especially since there is no "cityscape" pic in this article. There's a slight blurriness and almost a haze-like quality to pic #1. Onel5969 (talk) 19:48, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment I was invited here randomly by a bot. I have two observations: 1) This request for comment is not so well formed and is unlikely to bring about a consensus. The request is properly neutral but the use of editors' names in the image captions and in the initial comment by the requesting editor is problematic. The idea is to keep RFCs neutral and focused on improving the page, not on personalities. I recommend starting over with a new RFC with plain numbers in the image captions and leaving out the names of the image authors in all comments. 2) In my view, editing the subject of the RFC while the RFC is open is an abuse of BRD and counter to the spirit of an RFC. I would recommend the image be put back to what it was when this RFC was opened. Jojalozzo 04:58, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
    • I disagree with several of your points. First, Wikipedia editors are more than capable of making independent decisions regardless of what has been posted previously in a discussion. They are not naive, and are used to discussions such as take place in Articles for Deletion in which everyone expresses their opinions -- and other editors seem to be able to express their own views as well, despite that.

      Second, all the information on the images is totally available to every editor with the click of a link, so it seems silly to hide the facts, or to try to set up a false "neutrality" which can be pierced at any time. That's why I prefer a totally different course of action, which is that the editor who has a conflict of interest because he or she is the photographer of one of the subject images should say:

      "There's a dispute about which of these two images is best for the article. Editor X prefers photo 1, which was the lede image until I replaced it with photo 2, which happens to be one of my own. Regardless of that, I think photo 2 is superior for reason 1, reason 2 and reason 3, while photo 1 is not as good for reason 4, reason 5 and reason 6. Please comment on which image you think is better for the article."

      That puts all the cards on the table and allows people to comment knowing precisely what the situation is, instead of denying them the facts. I think most people appreciate that kind of honesty and transparency; I know that I do.

      In my opinion, anyome who opposes or supports a photograph on the basis of who the photographer is, instead of on the basis of content, function, technical merit and artistic value, is doing a disservice to the community. BMK (talk) 05:40, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

  • AGREE I tried, as Joja noted to make it a clean and unbiased request. Beyond my Ken is dead set on controlling everything in a domineering manner that, as you have noted taints the request, and he likes to do so in a manner that is derogatory and offensive. His objective, as you can clearly see in his edits, (this is WPPilots photo) is unproductive, and as you mentioned it is not going to create a unbiased reply from other users, as his comments are designed to bias people to his perspective. I have tried more then one to place a RfC on his domineering edits, and he goes off the deep end, going on and on and on about me, as a user, as you see in the RfC here. No way to obtain a unbiased response with BMK dead set on maintaining full control and tossing me under the bus. I have discontinued uploading photos, to the site as a direct result of Beyond My Ken, as it is clear by reviewing his edits, that he now stalks and reverts almost every edit I contribute and has make it his personal quest to remove my photos, from pages on the site. talk→ WPPilot  11:58, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment Im another random commenter from a bot. The one furthest to the right looks the best. It looks clearer to me and has a good angle. You may want to number them or use A, B, or C to make it easier on the closer, so they can easily be sure which photo each comment is on. AlbinoFerret 04:59, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment Personally, I agree. it shows the clearest view of the city. DGG ( talk ) 00:09, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment I actually prefer the middle image, but that's irrelevant. Either of the other two images (left or right of centre) are fine. They have the same content. They give people a good idea of what Jersey looks like—as good an idea as a photo will give, anyway. Willhesucceed (talk) 08:32, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Photo No. 3. It has more elevation and shows more of the city. Also clearer. GeorgeLouis (talk) 16:29, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
  • I also was invited by a bot. I know nothing about Jersey City and have never touched this article. I agree with most of the above comments. Photo #1 is darker but has more vibrance, #3 is easier to "read" but is a bit washed out and #2 is perhaps more interesting to an outsider. Maybe you should do another image search, I dunno. Alo not sure why it would matter that you can see the sky in #2. New Jersey is not known for blue skies. Those are my thoughts, in case they are helpful. I personally would advise something more human, some iconic building downtown, if there is such a thing, or maybe a historic photo? I find all three photos pretty boring, since you ask. Check out what the editors of the Santa Fe page did (a montage), or Ottawa (Parliament Hill). It's true that a lot of city pages do a wide-lens shot in the infobox but it's not *required* Elinruby (talk)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Timeline of Jersey City, New Jersey

What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content. Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 09:39, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

this text in the article literally makes no sense

"1853 to 1859; New Jersey Railroad and Transportation Company original Jersey City terminal: Job Male, six year Superintendent of Construction of the NJRR, 1853–1859, built this complete terminal in Jersey City." 96.234.29.41 (talk) 03:10, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

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Ref idea

  • Adams, Nathaniel (May 5, 2017). "The Death and Life of Jersey City". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331.

czar 22:08, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Lead July 2017- Synthesis

In repsonse to this What's your problem? edit summary... Lead should contain only material later cited in body of article and not include editors' POV or Wikipedia:SynthesisDjflem (talk) 18:10, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

The below text in question is not supported by the references given, despite the request that they be provided. It is original research to state conclusions that are not specially stated in references as outline at Synthesis of published material. In other words the claims being made are not Verifiabile. Additionally inclusion may contravene Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section. Can this please be corrected?

Financial and service industries and mass transit connections to Manhattan[1] have led to the city being nicknamed Wall Street West[2] and a Sixth Borough of New York City,[3] and they have played a prominent role in the redevelopment of the Jersey City waterfront.

References

  1. ^ [1] Accessed July 8, 2017.
  2. ^ A Vision for Smart Transit in Jersey City, United States Department of Transportation, February 4, 2016. Accessed July 18, 2017. "Development along the Hudson River waterfront led to the development of the 'Wall Street West' financial district, one of the largest centers of banking and finance in the nation."
  3. ^ Hortillosa, Summer Dawn. "Is Jersey City New York City's 'Sixth Borough'?", The Jersey Journal, May 6, 2014. Accessed July 18, 2017. "Is Jersey City really the 'Sixth Borough?' The city picked up the nickname for its proximity to New York City and its close relationship with its sister city."

Djflem (talk) 21:23, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

While I disagree that the sources don't support the claims, I will agree with you about potential concerns regarding synthesis. While there was no legitimate reason to make a blind revert that removed other updates to the article, I will support this wording pending further discussion. Alansohn (talk) 21:42, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
The sources absolutely support the claims — but to eliminate potential concerns of WP:SYNTHESIS, I have restructured the lede content. It is decidedly inappropriate to adamantly deny (for whatever reason, I will not speculate), mention of New York City or Manhattan in the lede. The history and development patterns of Jersey City, particularly its financial district and waterfront, have been inextricably tied to New York City, and in particular to Manhattan and the varied mass transit modalities it shares with Jersey City. There is also no reason to include the mayoral identity in the lead section, and the same-sex couples section incorporates in the introductory sentence a piped hyperlink that is different from the direct forked link. Castncoot (talk) 16:07, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
The claim that "Financial and service industries and mass transit connections to Manhattan have led to the city being nicknamed Wall Street West and a Sixth Borough of New York City" are nowhere mentioned in any of the sources. It is pure unsupported conjecture, not dissimilar to the editor's other assumptions and speculations to "adamantly deny" anything. Djflem (talk) 12:12, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

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Is "Sixth Borough" a nickname for Jersey City?

"Is Jersey City New York City's 'Sixth Borough'?" from The Jersey Journal sufficient to establish the claim that "Sixth Borough" is a nickname for Jersey City? A generic civic pride puff piece, the included poll shows that more than 58% of respondents reject the claim. One can hear people going to "Chilltown" or "J.C." or even "Wall Street West", but do people living in or heading to Jersey City ever refer to it as a "Sixth Borough" and have people understand that they're referring to Jersey City? Alansohn (talk) 19:45, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Pinging Castncoot and Djflem for input. Add any other relevant editors to the discussion. Alansohn (talk) 19:47, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
It's a borderline case, I admit. That's why I listed it as the last in a list of nicknames. But whether or not you or I agree that it is a bona fide nickname (I do), a reliable source quotes it as such, and a significant number of respondents agree. Furthermore, you added the pertinent quote in the source citation yourself. If I mentioned the term "Chilltown", I'm sure that less than 50% of respondents would ever have even heard of it. I have never heard that term used in real life. One thing to keep in mind is that many legitimate nicknames may not be conversation-friendly but are indeed found in written media. This is an example of one of those. Castncoot (talk) 20:06, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
JC one of several places called the Sixth Borough. There are enough other references to 6th borough that it would qualify as a nickname, but it not appropriate for the lede as clearly stated in Wikipedia:Lede; significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article. This info is not needed in lead because is is not significant in the greater context of the subject of the article and not significant in the context of the article; nor is explained elsewhere in the body. A mention in the info box will do. Have subsequently removed based on Wikipedia:Lede and await further discussion regarding infobox.Djflem (talk) 12:37, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
So you're saying, one place or the other, but not both. I feel it should be mentioned in both locations, but I can compromise and include it in one or the other. Castncoot (talk) 04:38, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
I just noticed that it is in fact mentioned in the Geography section, and therefore, I have restored the content to the lede, per your own argument. It really should appear in the infobox as well. Best, Castncoot (talk) 04:45, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

[1][2][3] [4]

Inclusion in the infobox is more than sufficient. It is relatively insignificant information in terms of the city and does not need to be placed in such a position of prominence in the article. Two editors, Alansohn and myself, have removed it from the lede, establishing a consensus for non-incluison.Djflem (talk) 10:24, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
Actually, my understanding is that Alansohn wanted it out of the infobox, not out of the lede. You seem to be making up your own rules as you go along, but I (and perhaps others) will tolerate it for now as at least the three of us involved in this current discussion have been able to achieve some of our talking points. Castncoot (talk) 02:16, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Strunsky, Steve (December 9, 2001). "CITIES; Bright Lights, Big Retail". The New York Times.
  2. ^ Holusha, John. "Commercial Property / The Jersey Riverfront; On the Hudson's West Bank, Optimistic Developers", The New York Times, October 11, 1998. Accessed May 25, 2007. "'That simply is out of the question in midtown,' he said, adding that some formerly fringe areas in Midtown South that had previously been available were filled up as well. Given that the buildings on the New Jersey waterfront are new and equipped with the latest technology and just a few stops on the PATH trains from Manhattan, they become an attractive alternative. 'It's the sixth borough', he said."
  3. ^ Belson, Ken (May 21, 2007). "In Stamford, a Plan to Rebuild an Area and Build an Advantage". The New York Times.
  4. ^ Hortillosa, Summer Dawn. "Is Jersey City New York City's 'Sixth Borough'?", The Jersey Journal, May 6, 2014. Accessed July 18, 2017. "Is Jersey City really the 'Sixth Borough?' The city picked up the nickname for its proximity to New York City and its close relationship with its sister city."

Djflem (talk) 12:37, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

America's Golden Door nickname

Another nickname, trademarked by the city's economic development agency and included on signs produced by the city itself, is America's Golden Door. Add to info box?Djflem (talk) 15:18, 27 July 2017 (UTC)


[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]

References

  1. ^ "Jersey City: America's Golden Door". JC Online. 2007. Retrieved 20 July 2017.
  2. ^ "The Golden Door..." Random Number. Retrieved 2012-10-10.
  3. ^ "Jersey City America's Golden Door". Legal Force Trademarks. Retrieved 2012-10-10.
  4. ^ "Jersey City: "Wall Street West"". Business Weekly. October 28, 2001. Retrieved 2012-10-10.
  5. ^ "Hudson Shakespeare Company". Hudson Shakespeare Company. Retrieved 2012-10-10.
  6. ^ Scherer, Glenn; DeCoste, Paul (2009), Hiking New Jersey: A Guide to 50 of the Garden State's Greatest Hiking Adventures, Falcon Guide, ISBN 9780762711192
  7. ^ "BUST's Favorite Reasons Why Jersey City Is Your New Fave Tourist Destination".


Yes, will add it. Castncoot (talk) 21:50, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

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Rename article to "Jersey City"?

I think this article should just be renamed to "Jersey City". There isn't another Jersey City in the world as far as I know, and the "New Jersey" part of the article name is quite redundant. I know JC isn't as famous as somewhere like Atlanta or NYC for example, but still. MaRoFu (talk) 18:47, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Agree. No reason for diambiguation here.Djflem (talk) 11:03, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:21, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Lead Image?

There is no lead image... I don't know why, but I will change it unless anybody has a surprisingly profound argument against it. PerhapsXarb (talk) 03:41, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 28 April 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Expanding the list of WP:USPLACE exceptions is a perennial proposal which has been denied time and time again; get consensus on Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names) first rather than nominating individual pages. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 05:14, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Jersey City, New Jersey → Jersey City – No need for disambiguation in title. MaRoFu (talk) 03:02, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:44, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
  • @MaRoFu, JJMC89, and Station1: queried move request Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:44, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment although I think this move is reasonable I doubt it will succeed per WP:USPLACE. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:49, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Neutral. Although this type of proposal would normally run afoul of WP:USPLACE, a case could be made that the near-unique nature of Jersey City's name calls for one of those "occasional exceptions" that the guideline also provides for. But in the end it really makes no difference as long as one title redirects to the other. Station1 (talk) 17:16, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Move rasonable, no disam needed here Djflem (talk) 20:09, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose per the standard of WP:USPLACE. This does not qualify under the so-called "AP Stylebook exception rule" of WP:USPLACE, so it should have the state in the title like most other US cities. I assume that the OP and others who may be browsing their way through may not be familiar with the guideline (or the long, tedious, historic debates about it). So I would recommend both the FAQ box at the top at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names), and also Wikipedia:Perennial proposals#Remove state from US placenames (which summarizes the rationale for WP:USPLACE into five bullet points). TLDR: most U.S. places are in this "City, State" format because this is a consistent naming convention commonly used by many reliable sources in the U.S. Zzyzx11 (talk) 06:22, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose per the standard of WP:USPLACE. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:03, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Edit originally made by Unregistered User 68.198.116.219 on 30-August-2015 (1853 to 1859)

Requesting help from a knowledgeable editor concerning a problematic edit in the section entitled 19th Century. The paragraph begins "1853-59;" (sic). Previous editors fixed misspellings and formatting of the text and the reference, but the edit still lacks clarity and contains sentence fragments, unorthodox sentence structure and punctuation. The entire edit is sourced to an "epitaph" in a newspaper published in 1891, with no page number. An epitaph is usually a brief inscription on a tombstone. Am not familiar with the material and not comfortable editing it, but believe this needs further attention. E54495a (talk) 21:36, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

  • This text? Cut from article during inquiry..

1853 to 1859; New Jersey Railroad and Transportation Company original Jersey City terminal: Job Male, six year Superintendent of Construction of the NJRR, 1853–1859, built this complete terminal in Jersey City. He was designer and builder of terminal, docks, ferry houses, and piers, and possibly the maintenance facility between Washington and Green streets built during his term as Superintendent. Reclaiming the natural river front, which included all that section of Hudson Street lying between Essex and Wayne Streets. He planned and built for the company the old circular-roofed depot, which was 500 feet (150 m) in length and 100 feet (30 m) wide, and which was situated on Montgomery Street where the 1858 Pennsylvania Railroad depot was built.[1]

    • Keep Removed It's interesting, at best, but adds nothing to this article. Alansohn (talk) 02:46, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Uncited material in need of citations

I am moving the following uncited material here until it can be properly supported with inline citations of reliable, secondary sources, per WP:V, WP:CS, WP:IRS, WP:PSTS, WP:BLP, WP:NOR, et al. [ This diff] shows where it was in the article. Nightscream (talk) 20:26, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Extended content

History

Revolutionary War

Main article: Battle of Paulus Hook

During the American Revolutionary War, the area was in the hands of the British who controlled New York. In the Battle of Paulus Hook, Major Light Horse Harry Lee successfully attacked a British fortification on August 19, 1779, which was the catalyst for the British losing control of what is now modern New Jersey. The battle itself took place within what is present-day Jersey City.[citation needed]

19th century

The railroads became and would remain the largest employers in Jersey City into and during the early 20th century.

Geography

Neighborhoods

The Heights

Pershing Field entrance in The Heights

The Heights or Jersey City Heights is a district in the north end of Jersey City atop the New Jersey Palisades overlooking Hoboken to the east and Croxton in the Meadowlands to the west. Previously the city of Hudson City, The Heights was incorporated into Jersey City in 1869.[2] The southern border of The Heights is generally considered to be north of Bergen Arches and The Divided Highway, while Paterson Plank Road in Washington Park is its main northern boundary. Transfer Station is just over the city line. Its postal area ZIP Code is 07307. The Heights mostly contains two- and three-family houses and low rise apartment buildings, and is similar to North Hudson architectural style and neighborhood character.[3]

West Side

West Side, Jersey City is west of Kennedy Boulevard.[citation needed]

Climate

The climate in this area is characterized by hot, humid summers and generally mild to cool winters. According to the Köppen climate classification system, Jersey City has a humid subtropical climate in which, its climate is similar to its parallel cities like Newark, New Jersey and New York City, abbreviated "Cfa" on climate maps.[4] Jersey City is in USDA hardiness zone 7a on the west side of the city and hardiness zone 7b on the east side.[citation needed]

The Heights is home to several green spaces, including Riverview First Park, Leonard Gordon Park, Pershing Field Park, and Washington Park.[citation needed]

Demographics

Race and ethnicity

Many non-Hispanic whites have settled in the newer developments in the Newport and Exchange Place neighborhoods along the Jersey City waterfront.

Ever since the settling of New Netherland in the 1600s, comprising what is now the Gateway Region of northeastern New Jersey as well as portions of Downstate New York in the New York City metropolitan area, the Dutch and British, along with German and Irish Americans, have established an integral role in the subsequent long-term development of Jersey City over the centuries. In 2012 the opening of The French American Academy downtown Jersey City has generated an inflow of French and European settlers from in-state and out-of-state as well as overseas origin.

There is a notable Algerian and Moroccan American population in Jersey City.[citation needed]

Religion

The largest religious community in the city is Christianity, followed by Islam, the eastern religions, and Judaism.

The Catholic Church, served by the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Newark, forms the largest Christian group in Jersey City (46.2%). The Catholic Church is also served by the Syriac Catholic Eparchy of Our Lady of Deliverance of Newark, an Eastern Catholic jurisdiction of the Syriac Catholic Church.

Baptists, primarily affiliated with the American Baptist Churches USA, National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc, and NBCA International, made up the second largest Christian group (2.9%). Pentecostals (1.0%), the Latter Day Saints (0.7%), Methodists (0.5%), and Lutherans (0.5%) make up the following Christian groups in the city. Presbyterians, primarily served by the Presbyterian Church (USA), and Anglicans or Episcopalians comprised 0.3% of the Christian demographic each. The largest Anglican or Episcopalian bodies in Jersey City are the Episcopal Diocese of Newark (Episcopal Church USA), and the Diocese of the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic (Anglican Church in North America and Reformed Episcopal Church). Christians of another faith, including the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, Jehovah's Witnesses, non-denominational Protestants, and ISM churches made up 1.8% of the city's Christians.

Pakistani Americans, Bangladeshi Americans, and Arab Americans compose a significant proportion of Jersey City's Muslim population. The largest branches of Islam practiced are Sunni Islam, Shia Islam, and Ahmadiyya, though some Quranist and non-denominational Muslims practice their faith in the city and surrounding area.

Economy

Port Jersey

Port Jersey is an intermodal freight transport facility that includes a container terminal located on the Upper New York Bay in the Port of New York and New Jersey. The municipal border of the Hudson County cities of Jersey City and Bayonne runs along the long pier extending into the bay.

...in addition to the Claremont Terminal, once part of the Lehigh Valley Terminal Railway operations.

Art and culture

Museums and libraries

...some of which have permanent collections and host exhibitions. At the Main Library, the New Jersey Room contains historical archives and photos. The Morgan Branch is home to the Afro-American Historical and Cultural Society Museum. The Five Corners Branch specializes in works related to music and the fine arts, and is a gallery space. The library system also includes a Bookmobile.

Government

Emergency services

  • Jersey City Medical Center Emergency Medical Services
  • Port Authority of New York and New Jersey Police Department
  • Hudson County Sheriff's Office (Patrol, county owned buildings and county parks in Jersey City)
  • United States Park Police (Ellis Island, Liberty Island, and the screening facilities for the ferries located in Jersey City)
  • National Park Service Emergency Medical Services (Ellis Island)
  • New Jersey State Park Police (Liberty State Park located in Jersey City)

Education

Colleges and universities

...both of which are located in the city's West Side district. The business school of New Jersey City University is at Harborside overlooking Lower Manhattan.

  • CSX Railroad Police (the CSX and Conrail rail road lines running through Jersey City)
  • New Jersey Transit Police (the Hudson-Bergen light rail line running through Jersey City)
  • New Jersey State Police (the turnpike and turnpike extension running through Jersey City)

Public schools

Liberty High School is the district's only high school that focuses on all academics.

Media

WSNR-620 AM is also licensed in the city. News 12 Networks has a television station targeting the Jersey City and Newark areas.

Transportation

Air

References

  1. ^ from epitaph of Job Mail, in Plainfield Daily Press, January 30, 1891.
  2. ^ Cite error: The named reference Merger was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  3. ^ The Heights, Jersey City Redevelopment Agency. Accessed December 21, 2011.
  4. ^ Jersey City, New Jersey Köppen Climate Classification (Weatherbase), Weatherbase. Accessed March 16, 2016.

Requested move 4 December 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. In this discussion, the community considers whether the phrase "New Jersey" should be removed from this article's longstanding title of "Jersey City, New Jersey". It's universally agreed here that WP:USPLACE, a section of our naming conventions for geographical places, counsels against this move: with a handful of exceptions not relevant here, that guideline recommends the use of "Placename, State" as the title for American cities. The supporters, invoking our venerable tradition of ignoring all rules, argue that Jersey City ought to be an exception to that guideline since 1) the title requires no additional disambiguation, 2) "Jersey City" standing alone is the WP:COMMONNAME, and 3) "Jersey City", unlike the names of most cities, clearly implies the state in which it is located. IAR is fundamental policy, and I'm certainly not inclined to discount !votes that suggest that this case is an appropriate exception to the general rule. Additionally, many of the oppose !votes are somewhat weak, simply citing WP:USNAMES (which is a guideline to which "occasional exceptions may apply") without rebutting the argument that, in this instance, the guideline ought to yield to the best interests of the encyclopedia. Still, a number of editors (e.g. 力 and Lennart97) made reasonable arguments that the current title was proper, and from a numerical perspective a majority did not support the proposed move. At the end of the day, an IAR-based argument cannot prevail unless editors as a whole actually agree that ignoring the rule is necessary to improve or maintain Wikipedia. Since there's no such agreement here, there's no consensus to move the page. (closed by non-admin page mover) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 07:01, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Jersey City, New Jersey → Jersey City – I realize this may be a very controversial move, but since there is no other city with this name, I do not feel as if "New Jersey" should necessarily be in the article title. It is common knowledge that Jersey City is in New Jersey as it directly attaches to the largest city in the country, New York City. Recent gentrification in Jersey City's western neighborhoods are clearly revitalizing the city, giving it more of its own image in recent years. Since I realize how controversial this move is, feel free to give your opinion on the matter, thank you. 2601:8C:4580:63B0:0:0:0:C988 (talk) 05:20, 4 December 2021 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran • sign the guestbook • (talk) 04:34, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

  • Oppose per WP:USPLACE. 182.1.232.179 (talk) 05:46, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Support no disambiguation needed. Jersey city is Sui generis, a unique name which already indicates state.Djflem (talk) 10:52, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment - wouldn't disagree in saying that, by common knowledge, the city is in the state whose names both shares the word "Jersey" in them.
As to naming: we have many notable cities in the US which follows the "name, state", which appears to be the typical naming convention per the above wikilink though some others don't, such as Cleveland in Ohio where I found other cities with that name but that seems to be the primary city in the states.
The previous RM is currently in Talk:Jersey City, New Jersey/Archive 1: the users who gave out their views does not think the article should be moved two years ago. Either way, we should consider both pages exist with one redirecting to another so as long as one redirects to the other is fine with me. Thanks, Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 11:13, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose. This falls under the WP:USPLACE guideline. For further explanation, see Wikipedia:Perennial proposals#Remove state from US placenames. Reliable sources in the US commonly append the state to placenames. The definition of "major city" in the US, and the naming conventions of US cities in general, have been heavily debated for years and has been subjective. So the consensus of the Wikipedia community was to use the so-called AP Stylebook exception rule to use a reliable source to define what a "major city" is: 29 significant US cities are specifically exempted from the convention per the AP Stylebook. However, Jersey City is not one of them, so the "Jersey City" page becomes a primary redirect. It is not based on factors like "common knowledge that Jersey City is in New Jersey" or a recent revitalization of the city that has improved its image that may have elements of subjectivity. Zzyzx11 (talk) 11:31, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Support remove unnecessary disambiguation and WP:IAR to a guideline that is treated like a dictat from on high. Timrollpickering (talk) 11:45, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose move per USPLACE. No reason to make an exception here. O.N.R. (talk) 15:31, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose, as per above, WP:USPLACE dictates that the state name be kept even in unambiguous titles. 162 etc. (talk) 17:40, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose per USPLACE - this isn't where I'd try to make an exception. After all, it could be on the island of Jersey. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 21:10, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose – unfortunately this kind of change really needs to be discussed project wide at WP:USPLACE. cookie monster 755 23:20, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
  • As I've said before I'm not sure the state is necessary but USPLACE says its common usage and ENGVAR for American English. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:00, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Question WP:USPLACE says that articles on American cities "are typically titled Placename, State." But is that the same thing as saying that they're required to be? Personally I don't see why articles on cities with names that do not recur in multiple states need to be, but if the guideline says this -- or if that's its intent -- then I suppose the answer to this discussion is clear. Nightscream (talk) 21:25, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
    As with all guidelines, there's a box at the top of its page that says "occasional exceptions may apply". So nothing is ever required, but guidelines should be followed in "typical" cases. Is this a typical case, or does common sense indicate an acceptable exception? That's what this discussion is about. And although this is a case where a reasonable person may say that the unusual nature of this city's name warrants an exception, a consensus for that view has not developed up to this point. Station1 (talk) 06:35, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Support. This deserves to be an exception. It is quite uncommon to see the phrase "Jersey City, New Jersey" in sources, as state name is already contained in town title. Walrasiad (talk) 03:34, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
A state name in a town title doesn't indicate what state the town is in. To take just a few examples: There are enough such examples to fill a page. US placenames are quite a geographical grab-bag but sticking to our guidelines helps keep things more clear and consistent. ╠╣uw [talk] 09:50, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Support @Station1: Thank you for your response. Given the precedents of Oklahoma City and Indianapolis, whose article titles do not include the name of the state, I think Jersey City falls into the same rationale, and should be an exception. Nightscream (talk) 16:12, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
    Nightscream, Oklahoma City and Indianapolis are listed by the AP Stylebook, though, so they aren't an exception to WP:USPLACE, while Jersey City would be. Rublov (talk) 19:13, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose. WP:USPLACE exists exactly to forestall endless debates of this variety. The current title is fine and there is no reason to ignore the specific guideline which applies to this case. Rublov (talk) 19:15, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Support per WP:IAR. If the only reason not to move this page is the existence of rule (which has been consistently been challenged over the years and likely would not have enough support to gain consensus if it were proposed today) than we should use common sense here and move the page. Calidum 18:09, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose (STRONGLY), as per above. As mentioned by User:162 etc. (etc.): "WP:USPLACE dictates that the state name be kept even in unambiguous titles." In a vast majority of sources (and styleguides), almost ALL U.S. cities are written with both the city and state name, with very few exceptions (all of which are listed by WP:USPLACE). Paintspot Infez (talk) 21:18, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Fogetabouit, for as long as WP:USPLACE holds sway it sways. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:15, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose. If it can be shown that the overwhelming majority of sources omit the state, I could see cause for an exception, but that should be based on a general consensus at USPLACE and not on a local consensus here (as Rublov notes above, that's kind of the point of USPLACE). I also don't think it's necessarily "common knowledge" or obvious that Jersey City is in New Jersey, at least for non–Americans; I remember my surprise when I found out that Kansas City (the main one, anyway) is not in Kansas. Lennart97 (talk) 14:04, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Support per WP:IAR, as the nominator and several other users stated, having "New Jersey" next to the name is unnecessary disambiguation when the name of the city indicates Jersey City's obvious location, therefore I see an exception to the rule here. JE98 (talk) 19:15, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
    • Should Virginia City also be an exception, since it's obviously in Virginia as the name implies? Lennart97 (talk) 20:02, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
No, because it requires disambiguation Virginia City (disambiguation), unlike Jersey City, which doesn't. Djflem (talk) 20:16, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
How about Missouri City? ╠╣uw [talk] 10:00, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
You mean Missouri City, Texas? What about it? Djflem (talk) 13:29, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
The point is the same that I made in my !vote just above, and that Huwmanbeing makes with this list: all these examples illustrate that the location of a city can in fact not reliably be determined from the state name that the city name includes, and as such it's not obvious that Jersey City is in New Jersey to anyone who doesn't already know that it is. This means that the "the state is already in the name, so there's no need for disambiguation"-argument is a bad argument for the move. Lennart97 (talk) 13:43, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
You have offered a good reason why those indeed should be followed by state. What's the reason a city name that is unique (sui generis) and requires no disambiguation needs to be disambiguated? Is the suggestion that it is common knowledge in which states those not following [CITY, STATE]] pattern (such as Salt Lake City, Indianapolis, Oklahoma City) are located? Djflem (talk) 15:58, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
The point is that it's not up to Wikipedia to decide which city is sufficiently well known, or its name sufficiently obvious, that the state isn't needed. We follow the sources and the result is USPLACE: the majority of reliable sources include the state name for every city except the exceptions mentioned by the AP stylebook. Now as I said in my !vote, if it can in fact be shown that the state name is also omitted for Jersey City by most reliable sources, that would be a good argument for a move. But no one has attempted to actually show this so far. Lennart97 (talk) 17:13, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
Above the point is "all these examples illustrate that the location of a city can in fact not reliably be determined from the state name that the city name includes." The [CITY, STATE] pattern in the examples requires disambiguation, specifically to avoid confusion, doesn't it? How can a Wikipedia reader reliably one know which states Salt Lake City or Honolulu are in is if the state name is not given? Thus, Kansas City, Kansas or Kansas City, Missouri are clearly examples where disambiguation is necessary. unlike JC.
But if now the the point is Wikipedia follows sources, using the AP list is not using or following a source for verifiability. It is Wikipedia has "choosing" to adopt a style from an outside agency for its Wikipedia:Manual of Style. That is arbitrary, isn't it? Djflem (talk) 15:47, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
Sure, following the AP list is an arbitrary choice to some extent, but following the AP list and making an exception for Jersey City is much more arbitrary, isn't it? Especially when we seem to have agreed that just because it has Jersey in the name, that doesn't make it a special case; yes, it's a unique, unambiguous place name, just like thousands of others in the US. Arguing that in general these unique placenames should not be disambiguated is something I could get behind, but there's a reason that proposal is included in this list. As long as USPLACE is what it is, I don't see why we should be inconsistent in its application. Lennart97 (talk) 10:41, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

╠╣uw [talk] 09:23, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

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