Talk:John Sculley

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Former good articleJohn Sculley was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
March 16, 2006Peer reviewReviewed
April 14, 2006Featured article candidateNot promoted
June 15, 2006Good article nomineeListed
December 13, 2007Good article reassessmentDelisted
Current status: Delisted good article

Low Quality Article[edit]

This article is quite poorly written and in need of an almost complete rewrite. It is an overly glorified biography of John Sculley and contains unverifiable value statements like "He is best known". I don't know how it was once considered a good article but it is clearly in need of work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Simonmetcalf (talk • contribs) 16:30, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, the last sentence of the Introduction does not make sense: it implies that Sculley made innovations at Pepsi based on the marketing approach he developed at Apple. But it was surely the other way round. Paulhummerman (talk) 22:02, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

«first golden age»[edit]

The article quotes a text, whereas under Sculley from 1989 to 1991 Apple had witnessed its «first golden age». I can testify as a Computer- and PC-user at that time Mac's great superiority. I can't of course judge, whose merit that was. However I didn't find the quote in the mentioned text. Besides, what would have been the second, third and so forth golden age? Not now anyway, but that's another story...--Werfur (talk) 21:09, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Sculley Era" POV[edit]

The "Sculley Era" part is really POV. The years after he got rid of Steve Jobs were the most profitable. -- Robert X. Cringely

  • I agree, I'll see what I can do. — Wackymacs 08:50, 6 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
It's also the time during which Apple managment degenerated into hopeless dysfunctionality. Sculley squandered Apple's technical leadership, and thoroughly demoralized its engineers.


  • lets not forget that the profitablity of apple in the scully years was a result of the desktop publishing boom- a market which apple had a monopoly in, untill the mid 90s - the groundwork for which was done in the apple-adobe postscript-laserwriter deal which steve jobs led before he was ousted by scully. AFAIK. herenot 14:46, 22 January 2006
I have to concur with that. Apple's success at that time was in spite of Scully, certainly not because of him. He was making a fool of himself pretending to be a visionary in the press, while the rank and file were ignoring him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.159.76 (talk) 21:09, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree about the POV. During the middle of the Sculley years, Apple had the highest revenue per employee of any company in the computer industry. Also during this time, Apple introduced the Powerbook, which was an immense success and introduced such innovations as the trackpad to mainstream laptop users. For a brief time Apple had the largest market share in the industry (I think it was about 15%, just beating IBM. This was around 1991-92.) And while the PowerPC decision looks wrong in hindsight, at the time it was seen as betting on the future of microprocessor design (RISC) against the past (CISC). It also represented a partnership with IBM, who were simultaneously hoping that OS/2 for PowerPC would end their dependence on Microsoft. And Apple was widely praised for the seamless transition from 68K to PPC. Miahavero (talk) 19:34, 17 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree with the statement that choosing PPC looks wrong in hindsight. It gave Apple a significant performance advantage for quite a few years, until Intel caught up in 2002 with the Core 2 architecture.24.6.159.76 (talk) 04:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I consider his predictions in a playboy interview as largely pov and irrelevant. Certainly as a prediction landing a man or mars is material for a book on humourus quotations for the ingnorance that it entails and the one about cd rom media for how a then obvious and very promising technology was one of the most likely then but finally didn't have that great an impact at all. Should I remove it altogether? 91.132.224.196 (talk) 14:17, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Quite. The "Sculley at Apple" era is covered in eleven paragraphs, ten of which are characterised by failure and waste and incompetence, mostly unsourced, presumably from the IP addresses above. "Given his apparent inability to effectively manage Apple's product line, Apple's board ultimately forced Sculley out" - says who? And was this the real reason? The opening paragraphs say that Apple's sales increased from $800 million to $8 billion during Sculley's time as boss, but literally nothing in the article supports or indeed mentions this; the impression I get is of a company staffed by infighting weaklings unable to find their way out of a paper bag. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 12:59, 6 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]


"It's also the time during which Apple managment degenerated into hopeless dysfunctionality. Sculley squandered Apple's technical leadership, and thoroughly demoralized its engineers." Whatever technical leadership was going to be squandered by Jobs anyway as he thoroughly demoralized its engineers by being unable to commit to anything. One day he would be in favour of one project then want to cancel it for something different. He was ousted to save Apple as you can read in Apple Confidential 2.0 . After Jobs left he sold all but one share in the company and he lost millions of $ which could have been his if he held onto their peak under Sculley. Then came Copeland and Tailgent which would have happened whoever was "nominally" running Apple as they never got around to properly updating their OS. why? No one was really in charge of anything. Managing Apple around this time was a poisoned chalice. This is meant to be an encyclopedia and not a /.ers homage to Steve Jobs. 86.44.79.230 (talk) 17:14, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Which strategy?[edit]

He is best known for his marketing skills, particularly in his introduction of 'the Pepsi Challenge' at PepsiCo, which allowed the company to gain market share over its rival, Coca Cola. Sculley followed this strategy at Apple throughout the 1980s and 1990s

Samsara (talk • contribs) 17:45, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

His marketing strategy, it says it right there. — Wackymacs 18:26, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've changed the wording slightly, is it better? — Wackymacs 18:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

destruction of Apple's engineering department[edit]

This paragraph is true (I was there), but needs to be sourced, does it not?

GA Sweeps (on hold)[edit]

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force in an effort to ensure all listed Good articles continue to meet the Good article criteria. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed.

The article does not cite source of many important statements. I marked them with appropriate tags. It is important because the article is about a living person.

I will check back in no less than seven days. If progress is being made and issues are addressed, the article will remain listed as a Good article. Otherwise, it may be delisted (such a decision may be challenged through WP:GAR). If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at WP:GAN. Feel free to drop a message on my talk page if you have any questions, and many thanks for all the hard work that has gone into this article thus far. Regards, Ruslik 09:54, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Since there is no answer I will delist this article. Ruslik (talk) 08:46, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tags[edit]

I made a deletion and placed POV tags in this article because the information about Sculley's stint at Apple is written with the objective of promoting a particular thesis. Wikipedia isn't the place for that kind of op-ed writing. Too much of the Apple stuff uses sources from op-ed style pieces, as opposed to objective news pieces. Just because it's on CNBC doesn't mean it's not opinion. ask123 (talk) 13:43, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Steve Jobs "hired the wrong guy"[edit]

I just watched a documentary on Steve Jobs where he states clearly "What can I say? I hired the wrong guy." when referring to Sculley. This tidbit should be included for balance as this article seems off-balance in favor of Sculley. His tenure at Apple is not nearly as positive as the article would have it appear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonny Quick (talk • contribs) 01:09, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with SineBot. I would say that Scully's relationship with Steve Jobs and how it changed during his time at Apple should be described much more in detail. This article blames purely Steve Jobs and his usual meeting hours for being ousted from Apple. Pucky2012 (talk) 13:25, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There seems to be a gap in the article about the events leading up to Sculley leaving Apple. It talks about the mistakes he made and what he did after he left but nothing about how he left and what happened. Lenneth (talk) 04:40, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is highly hagiographic. It makes me wonder what is being left out, since it includes almost exclusively positive concrete details about his Apple tenure, but I know it was generally considered a major failure. This ends up undermining the authority of the article. SubcomandanteOvashinsky (talk) 18:13, 1 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Take a look at the Apple article on Sculley's time with the company, a high visibility article likely to be better polished. It doesn't paint anything like the same picture that this article does. Makes this article seem to skim the highlights and ignore the failures of Sculley's tenure.

"1986–97: Decline See also: Timeline of Apple II family and Timeline of Macintosh models


The Macintosh Portable was Apple's first "portable" Macintosh computer, released in 1989. The Macintosh Portable was introduced in 1989 and was designed to be just as powerful as a desktop Macintosh, but weighed a bulky 7.5 kilograms (17 lb) with a 12-hour battery life. After the Macintosh Portable, Apple introduced the PowerBook in 1991. The same year, Apple introduced System 7, a major upgrade to the operating system which added color to the interface and introduced new networking capabilities. It remained the architectural basis for Mac OS until 2001. The success of the PowerBook and other products brought increasing revenue.[53] For some time, Apple was doing incredibly well, introducing fresh new products and generating increasing profits in the process. The magazine MacAddict named the period between 1989 and 1991 as the "first golden age" of the Macintosh. Following the success of the Macintosh LC, Apple introduced the Centris line, a low-end Quadra, and the ill-fated Performa line that was sold with an overwhelming number of configurations and software bundles to avoid competing with the various consumer outlets such as Sears, Price Club, and Wal-Mart (the primary dealers for these models). Consumers ended up confused and did not understand the difference between models.[55] During this time Apple experimented with a number of other failed consumer targeted products including digital cameras, portable CD audio players, speakers, video consoles, and TV appliances. Enormous resources were also invested in the problem-plagued Newton division based on John Sculley's unrealistic market forecasts.[citation needed] Ultimately, none of these products helped, as Apple's market share and stock prices continued to slide.[citation needed] Apple saw the Apple II series as too expensive to produce, while taking away sales from the low end Macintosh.[56] In 1990, Apple released the Macintosh LC with a single expansion slot for the Apple IIe Card to migrate Apple II users to the Macintosh platform.[56] Apple stopped selling the Apple IIe in 1993. Microsoft continued to gain market share with Windows focusing on delivering software to cheap commodity personal computers while Apple was delivering a richly engineered, but expensive, experience.[57] Apple relied on high profit margins and never developed a clear response. Instead, they sued Microsoft for using a graphical user interface similar to the Apple Lisa in Apple Computer, Inc. v. Microsoft Corporation.[58] The lawsuit dragged on for years before it was finally dismissed. At the same time, a series of major product flops and missed deadlines sullied Apple's reputation, and Sculley was replaced as CEO by Michael Spindler.[59]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by SubcomandanteOvashinsky (talk • contribs) 20:36, 1 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalisim, Gibberish in text[edit]

Strange words in article appear to be non-english text.Richard416282 (talk) 08:03, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Needs Criticisms Section[edit]

This article has so many unsubstantiated fanboy statements I would not begin citing them. However, I will say this article DESPERATELY needs a "Criticisms" sections where other points of view (particularly those concerning his ouster from Apple and the reinstatement of Jobs). At least this would provide some balance to an article that otherwise looks like a he's being nominated for canonization. N0w8st8s (talk) 18:18, 26 July 2013 (UTC)n0w8st8s[reply]

Hi, thanks for this suggestion. As I'm not very familiar with the subject, I am happy to grant you may be correct about the current shortcomings of the article. (The third paragraph of the lead is far from ideal in my view, and verges on blatantly promotional wording.)
However, just a note that we generally avoid "Criticism" and "Controversy" sections (especially in WP:BLP articles). Instead, the positive and negative statements from independent reliable sources should both be mentioned for each event or era or role, with due weight according to the verdict of history as far as we have it.
In other words, keep it in chronological order, no separate section for negative material, but do add the negative material in the appropriate places within the existing texts, where justifiable according to the WP:BLP policy. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:10, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Wxidea (talk) 05:31, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Time for a depictions section?[edit]

He has been portrayed three times now :-) Medico80 (talk) 17:08, 15 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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First Golden Age[edit]

Referenced citation for the line "The magazine MacAddict named the period between 1989 and 1991 as the "first golden age" of the Macintosh.[22]" [1] makes no reference to MacAddict or the "First Golden Age" of Mac. Recommend removing citation. Datadog2013 (talk) 17:42, 18 February 2016 (UTC) There is no mention of his Chairmanship with Spectrum Information Technologies. I feel that this goes to the character of the man because not only was he involved with a corrupt enterprise, he lied to its share holders. After the stock had fallen on report of misconduct Mr. Sculley made a statement to the press that he believed in the company causing the stock price to rebound. After the stock price started moving in a positive direction Mr. Sculley bailed and investors lost millions. LINK: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/1994-03-20/behind-the-scandal-at-spectrum[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://lowendmac.com/orchard/06/john-sculley-years-apple.html

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.15.30.128 (talk) 15:02, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Lawsuit content dispute[edit]

Content about a lawsuit which is to supposed have been filed against Scully keeps getting removed by Diane0524. This editor has claimed to be married to Scully, so it obvious that there are COI related issues involved here. These in fact have been discussed at WP:COIN#JohnScully. Being a COI editor, however, does not forbid someone from editing a particular article; they can still do so, but are encourage to follow the guidelines laid out in WP:PSCOI. One of the things a COI editor is allowed to do per WP:COIADVICE is to remove BLP violations. This seems to be the reason why Diane0524 is removing this content. I was going to discuss this at WP:BLPN, but figure I'd try here first. So, the first thing we need to figure out is whether this is a BLP violation. The edit sums being left describe the content as "contentious", "hurtful" and "false" which seem to imply such a thing. On the other hand, there are sources cited in support so perhaps it is accurate to a degree, but simply incomplete. If it's a case of the former, the content should not be re-added per WP:BLP; if it's a case of the latter, maybe we need to find better sources to complete the narrative. FWIW, claims of legal action usually have a beginning, middle and end. If the lawsuit was litigated and resolved, then information about the resolution should be found and added to the article. If the lawsuit never was litigated, then perhaps the information should be left out per WP:UNDUE because it creates the impression that Sculley might have done some wrong without any resolution to indicate otherwise. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:00, 27 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for starting this discussion Marchjuly. Diane0524 has been asked numerous times to provide evidence or engage on talk pages about this but has not yet done so. But you are right, we can still look into the issue and determine whether the content is contentious or undue. Have you been able to find out anymore about the lawsuit and whether there was a clear resolution to it one way or the other? I have tried but as I am outside the US can only access what is available online and have had no success. Melcous (talk) 01:28, 27 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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sculley and the deli[edit]

in 1990 I was working for Mission Catering and Deli in Fremont, Ca then owned by Mary Chamberlin. She sold it that year to John Sculley. He ran it into the ground within 2 years. Before he owned it, it was one of the top 10 in northern California and he destroyed it. I did not like working with or for him an left myself in 1991 after 25 of working with Mary. ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.166.255.61 (talk) 14:42, 19 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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He was not CEO of Pepsi[edit]

The biograpgy.com article is incorrect, as are numerous other websites. I'm reading his autobiography, Odyssey, and it's clear he was only ever President of Pepsi. He was the leading candidate to become the next CEO at the point in time when he decided to go to Apple. Don Kendall was the CEO. https://www.nytimes.com/1983/04/09/business/apple-gets-president-from-pepsi.html Nevster (talk) 23:04, 26 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Star Trek Project[edit]

The article states "Sculley later acknowledged such an act was his greatest mistake, indicating that he should instead have targeted the dominant Intel architecture." but he had such a program in place - the Star Trek project. That project was killed by Sculley's successor Michael Spindler. Sure it mae have been a sideline that may have went nowhere but it was there...under Sculley.--174.99.238.22 (talk) 09:26, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Was he born in April 6 or august 3?[edit]

Conflicting info here. 2A02:14F:1F6:31BD:31EB:77EC:27D6:C013 (talk) 12:50, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Book[edit]

He (co)wrote a book Odyssee: Pepsi to Apple which was published in 1987. Someone Not Awful (talk) 23:41, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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