Talk:John Welsh of Ayr

Article title

He cannot be John Welsh of Ayr as that would make him the feudal baron or laird of Ayr!! This needs to be changed. Possibly John Welsh (Minister). Also, Anderson (1867) gives the spelling of his surname as Welch. David Lauder 11:34, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree, but did not address this because a lot of the material I found refers to him in this way. Not sure what to do about that, and I am not sure how notable the name is on its own. This is not my field. Just a passing editor. Elinruby (talk) 16:30, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

John Welsh lived from 1568-1622, so he was 53 or 54 when he died. Therefore, he couldn't have been 59 years old when he married. According to one web site (http://www.puritansermons.com/banner/jnwelsh.htm) he was married prior to 1596, so he would have under 28 years old when he married. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LaHarpe (talk • contribs) 18:25, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

do we really need the begats?

removed the following from main page, as I question its importance:

He was the son of John Newton Welsh and Marion Isobel Greir. He was the grandson of John Welsh and Marita Ferguson. He was the great grandson of John Walsh and Ann Dinley. He was the 2nd great grandson of John Walshe of Olveston and Elizabeth Forster. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elinruby (talk • contribs) 23:19, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

more family tree:

, who was the son of Josiah Newton Welsh and Christina Ingles:

John Charles Welsh son was Josiah Newton Welsh married Christina Ingles: Grandson: John Michael of Irongray Welsh md Elizabeth Sommerville: Great Grandson: Edward Alexander Welsh married Sarah Gaines: 2nd Great Grandson: Robert Alexander Welsh md Judith Barr: 3rd Great Grandson: John Robert Welsh md Anne Elizabeth Heggerty: 4th Great Grandson: William Patrick Welsh md Johanna Cloughlan: 5th Great Grandson Michael Patrick Welsh married Mary Ann Dunn.

James Alexander Witherspoon married Lucy (or Luyse) Welch of Ayr, Daughter of John Welch and his wife Elizabeth Knox. Elizabeth was the youngest daughter of John Knox the great Scottish religious reformer and his second wife, Lady Margaret Stuart, 9th in decent from the Bruce (Robert Bruce or Robert "The Bruce"). The Rev. James Alexander Witherspoon a parish minister of Scotland, and his wife Luyse, were married in 1634. The Rev. Dr. John Witherspoon, one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence and first president of Princeton University, is the grandson of James and Lucy Witherspoon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elinruby (talk • contribs) 23:25, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Copyeditor passing by

During my copy edit I removed the Hew Scott summary as it is essentially lightly-veiled paraphrase of the "Life" section and not neutral in tone. I'm keeping the content here for posterity.

Hew Scott's summary

John Welsh prays for Ayr John Welsh or Welch was born about 1570, son of John W. of Colhston, 1600 parish of Dunscore, Dumfriesshire, and Marion Grier. After finishing a somewhat desultory education he joined a band of Border thieves, till like the prodigal " he began to be in want," and being ashamed of himself he returned, and through an intercessor, sought reconciliation with his offended parent. He went to the University of Edinburgh, graduated M.A. in 1588, and was the first minister who had studied there. He was nominated, 6th March 1589, by the Privy Council one of a committee for maintaining the true religion in the Forest and Tweeddale ; was admitted minister of Selkirk in 1589 ; translated to Kirkcudbright in 1594 ; appointed 29th March 1596 one of the visitors for Nithsdale, Annandale, Lauderdale, Eskdale, and Ewesdale. On 18 December of that year, while supplying the High Kirk, Edinburgh, during the flight of its own ministers, he so offended the king by his illustrations, that he also was obliged to take flight, till application was made by the Assembly on 5th March following for permitting his return to his charge. This in 1599 included Galtaway, Dunrod, and Kilchrist ; translated to Ayr as assistant August 1600. In consequence of the crowds who were attracted by his preaching, the Town Council resolved, 26th May 1603, to erect a new church, which, however, was not carried out till 1652. On John Porterfield's death in 1604, the people unanimously elected Welsh his successor, and on 10 April they requested the Town Council to ratify their choice and assign him a stipend. Though he did not arrive at Aberdeen till two days after an Assembly had been held there, 2nd July 1605, in opposition to the royal will, he zealously approved its proceedings, and has been considered one of its chief supporters. He was summoned before the Privy Council 25 July, and committed prisoner to the castle of Blackness on the 27th. Declining the authority of the Privy Council 24 October, in a cause which he considered spiritual, he, with four others, was tried before the Justiciary at Linlithgow 10 January following, found guilty, and banished from His Majesty s dominions for life, 23 October 1606. He went to France and studied the language of the country so successfully that in fourteen weeks he was able to preach in it with fluency. After preaching at Bordeaux, he was inducted parson at Jonsac in the end of 1608, at Nerac in 1614, and St Jean d Angely about 1617. For several years after he was banished, the Town Council of Ayr regularly remitted his stipend to him. Saint-Jean-d'Angély was besieged in 1620 by Louis XIII. while he was there. By the law of the kingdom no Protestant worship was allowed at the place where the king resided; nevertheless, Welsh continued to hold his services, and when called before the king and demanded how he durst do so, he replied, "If your Majesty knew what I preach, you would command others, and come yourself to hear it; I preach salvation by Jesus Christ, and sure I am your conscience tells you, your own works will never merit salvation for you; I preach there is none on earth above you, which none of those that adhere to the Pope will say." This firm and energetic reply so pleased the sovereign, that he exclaimed, "Very well, father, you shall be my minister," at the same time promising his protection, so that when the town was taken in the following year, guards of safety were planted at his house, and he and his family conveyed to Rochelle at the king's expense. In consequence of declining health, he was induced to return to Britain in 1622, intending thereafter to settle in the newly formed colony of Nova Scotia. At London his wife petitioned the king in person on his behalf, with urgent solicitude, when James, who had suffered under the faithful rebuke of Welsh for his unkingly habit of swearing, replied that if she would persuade her husband to submit to the bishops, he would have his permission. With a fortitude and heroism worthy of her husband and her father, Mrs Welsh, lifting up her apron, and holding it towards her sovereign, mildly yet firmly said, "Please your Majesty I'd rather kep (receive) his head there (in her lap)." Welsh died in London 2 April 1622, and was buried two days later in St Botolph, Bishopsgate. He married previous to 8 April 1596, Elizabeth (died at Ayr, 8th Jan. 1625), youngest daughter of John Knox the Reformer, and had issue John, baptised 8 June 1606; William, doctor of physic, died before 1633; Josias, min. of Temple-patrick, Ireland, died 1634; Nathaniel; Lucy; and another. John Welsh and his wife Elizabeth Knox had four sons and two daughters. Their son Josias Welsh was minister at Templepatrick, and father of the Covenanter leader John Welsh of Irongray. The Welsh family has been of interest to genealogists tracing the descendants of John Knox. References

—Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:11, 7 September 2020 (UTC)