Talk:Johnny McCarthy

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Requested move 3 September 2021[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved – there is rough consensus that "Johnny" is sufficiently different from "John" and thus sending to dab page would inconvenience readers, while WP:ONEOTHER applies to the two Johnnies. No such user (talk) 08:17, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Johnny McCarthy → Johnny McCarthy (basketball) – No indication that the seven-sentence stub for the basketball player Johnny McCarthy is primary over Johnny McCarthy (baseball). Johnny McCarthy should be a redirect to the extensive John McCarthy disambiguation page. — Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 15:55, 3 September 2021 (UTC)— Relisting. Havelock Jones (talk) 14:56, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support unlikely to be primary given the views for some of the others such as the computer scientist with 8,426 compared with only 68[[1] for this one, redirect back to John McCarthy. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:37, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose There appear to be only two subjects who go by "Johnny McCarthy" -- redirecting users to a massive page of subjects names John, which one would not reasonably expect to be at "Johnny," hinders rather than aids reader navigation. The !vote above, for example, notes the page views for a computer scientist who I cannot find evidence went by Johnny. The nomination also fails to address why there is not a primary among topics that could reasonably be at Johnny -- obviously, the existence of another page alone isn't enough reason, or we wouldn't need the concept of a primary topic at all. Note: I am happy to revisit and revise if we can look at evidence that the John McCarthy's in question commonly went by Johnny and would be reasonable search targets for the term.--Yaksar (let's chat) 17:58, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Leaving it at status quo, i.e. with a hatnote atop the seven-sentence stub for basketball player Johnny McCarthy pointing to Johnny McCarthy (baseball) is an indication of WP:ONEOTHER — consensus that there is one WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and one subsidiary topic. However, there is no consensus that Johnny McCarthy (basketball) is primary over Johnny McCarthy (baseball).

Furthermore, the contention that the "massive page of subjects names John, which one would not reasonably expect to be at "Johnny," hinders rather than aids reader navigation" is mitigated by the fact that the "massive page" has a table of contents listing section headers "Government", "Humanity and science", "Sports", "Religious figures", "Musicians", "Others" and "See also".

Anyone searching for one or the other sports figure, will simply type "Johnny McCarthy" and be redirected to John McCarthy or, even more-specifically, John McCarthy#Sports where the two men are already listed.

Likewise, creating a separate Johnny McCarthy disambiguation page is not how such matters are handled, although there are of course inconsistencies. The best example is Wikipedia's longest such page — John Williams (disambiguation) — with over 170 entries, but Johnny Williams is a redirect, not a separate dab page. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:32, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There are separate Chris Johnson (disambiguation) and ~~Christopher Johnson (disambiguation)~~ pages, so merely pointing to an example is an "other stuff" argument.—Bagumba (talk)

But disambiguation pages featuring the same surname with variations of the same given name (Richard, Rich, Richie, Ritchie, Rick, Ricky, Rickie, Dickie, Dicky, Dick) are indeed combined and those that are not combined represent the inconsistencies. Most Kris-Chris-Christopher dab pages are combined as are Chris Johnson and Christopher Johnson. The separate page is Christopher Johnston since the surname is different as in surnames such as Brown-Browne, Green-Greene, Hoffman-Hoffmann, etc. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 09:01, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong example on my part with Christopher Jones. Try Jim Jones (disambiguation) and James Jones (disambiguation), or Mike Williams (disambiguation) and Michael Williams (disambiguation). Throwing specific examples aside, I maintain we shouldn't make people who enter a specific name to have to wade through a larger list of a related name. Smaller lists may be suitable to combine.—Bagumba (talk) 12:19, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Given there seem to be over a dozen topics named Johnny Williams, and more who went by the nickname, that is not a good comparison. Again, as proposed the nomination would make reader navigation more difficult and bring no benefits to those searching this name. Whether there is a primary topic among the people actually named Johnny McCarthy is a legitimate discussion, but the nomination fails to make any claims or evidence to this.--Yaksar (let's chat) 13:31, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yaksar: What are your thoughts on my proposal below to convert Johnny McCarthy to a disambiguation page of the two Johnny McCarthy's? —Bagumba (talk) 09:35, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Convert Johnny McCarthy to a dab i.e. do not redirect to John McCarthy (disambiguation). No WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, but I also agree that someone who is correctly looking for a Johnny shouldn't have to wade through a list of John's. A "see also" to John McCarthy (disambiguation) is sufficient.—Bagumba (talk) 08:00, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:TWODABS. There are two topics. This one gets 82 percent of the pageviews. There's already a hatnote pointing to the baseball player article. Creating a dab page or moving them both to the John McCarthy page will only make it harder for our readers to find either article. Status quo is best here. Dohn joe (talk) 16:54, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
One topic gets 4 views/day, the other 1. Hardly enough to argue that either has the "long-term significance" specified for WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.—Bagumba (talk) 16:12, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Yaksar and Dohn joe. With only two articles titled Johnny McCarthy, what serves readers best is for most of the very small number searching for "Johnny McCarthy" to get directly to the article they want or to click on a hatnote for the other article. Anyway you look at it, there aren't a lot readers getting lost here. Station1 (talk) 02:06, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.