Talk:Kensington Temple

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History edit[edit]

User:Agendum (and anyone else following this article) - I edited the history section to this:

The church was founded in 1965 by Elim minister Reverend Eldin Corsie in Horbury Chapel, originally by the Hornton Street Congregational Church in 1849. The building had been used by the Bible-Pattern Church Fellowship (itself an Elim offshoot) until it became Kensington Temple.

It was then reverted to this:

The church was founded in 1965 by Elim minister Reverend Eldin Corsie in Horbury Chapel, originally by the Hornton Street Congregational Church in 1849. The building had been used for some years by the Bible-Pattern Church Fellowship (itself an Elim offshoot founded by George Jeffreys) until its use reverted to Elim in the early 1960s and it became known as Kensington Temple.

"Early 1960s" is redundant if it is already stated that KT was founded in 1965. (This is a stylistic/editorial observation.)

"Reverted to Elim" suggests it was previously used by Elim, but Bible Pattern Fellowship (to my knowledge) is an offshoot of Elim. (This is a factual observation.) Is there any reason why the first edit is not acceptable? Cheers. David L Rattigan 21:42, 6 May 2006 (UTC) 22:40 06 May 2006 GMT[reply]

Hi David - I was aiming at an accurate representation of the facts in as brief a way as possible (it's not necessary in a short article to go into all the details of the ownership of the building, and who did what to whom and when). I'm not an apologist for the Bible-Pattern Church Fellowship in any way (although I was saved in one of their churches, but I prefer to think that was by the grace of God).

My information is that the building was originally owned by the Elim Foursquare Gospel Alliance, and that it went with George Jeffreys when he left Elim to found the BPCF in 1939, and it became their central London church. As they declined in numbers (late 1950s-60s?), the building reverted to Elim, who by then were the Elim Pentecostal Church. Perhaps they had owned the building all along and leased it to the BPCF - I'm not sure. All I know is that the loss of the building caused great hurt and some bitterness amongst members. If any of this is proved wrong I will stand corrected. I hope others who know more about the history of this period will contribute.

By the way, if you were responsible for the original article - I had the privilege of meeting Eldin Corsie on a few occasions (and what a lovely humble man he was), and like everyone else who met him, I guess, I felt that I knew him well. Regards, Bruce aka Agendum 22:45, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I've met Eldin a few times myself. Nice chap. When I was a Pentecostal, I took a bit of a shine to him because he was so soft-spoken and unassuming compared to the big-name preachers and pastors. Not sure where he is now, as I knew him from his time at St Helens, and there has since been a bit of a split there, and I don't know whether he left at that time or not.

Anyway, to get back on topic - the article. I think it should still be changed, because even if your information is correct, the article as it is doesn't make sense. There is no mention in the article of the chapel being Elim's before BPF, so saying it "reverted" to being Elim is confusing to the reader. I recommend we hold off adding that info until it can be sourced properly.

If you can find that information (ie about the history of the building's ownership), I don't see why it shouldn't be added - after all, it is unlikely to be found anywhere else on the Web, and the beauty of Wikipedia is that it is a chance to record bits of history and information that might never be recorded elsewhere.

So, to resolve this: Can we agree to edit that paragraph to eliminate the confusion, and then we'll both try to find a source on the wider details of the building's history before adding fuller information? David L Rattigan 22:59, 6 May 2006 (UTC) 22:58 06 May 2006 UTC[reply]

Agreed. As long as we acknowledge the history of the building and the Congregational church and Bible-Pattern Church Fellowship both being part of that, we can add further details as and when they become available. Cheers, Bruce aka Agendum 19:37, 7 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Church has demonstrated against the Civil Partnership act and campaigns against homosexual people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.99.160.2 (talk) 18:05, 12 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be more accurate to say that members of the church have campaigned against homosexual activity, as do many Bible-based churches. Homosexuals, however, are welcomed at church meetings. – Agendum (talk) 14:43, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Name of church building[edit]

As recall, it was known as Kensington Temple by the Bible Pattern Church Fellowship in ca 1966. – Agendum 16:07, 24 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have now established that the building was known as Kensington Temple much earlier than the time of Rev. Eldin Corsie, when it was a Congregational Church in 1935. See http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=49877 – Agendum 19:31, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

History section[edit]

Ok I tried to update the history but hit a snag I don't have a source to hand for. Paragraph 2 of the section says:

The use of the building reverted to the Elim Church in the early 1960s, and the church as it is known today was founded in 1965 by the Elim minister Rev. Eldin Corsie. Under his ministry in the late 1960s–1970s the congregation grew to 600, and then to several thousand under Rev. Wynne Lewis (later to become the Elim Church's General Superintendent) during the 1980s.

The "reverted to" would imply that Jeffreys took the church with him when he left the Elim movement, which makes sense as he bought it and very possibly retained title (part of his problem with Elim was the "hold centrally/pay locally" system so he may have declined to pass on the deeds - although as was pointed out at the time, he did write the rules! Sorry, I have no written sources for any of this parenthetical comment!). After the split he went to Nottingham with his Bible Pattern Fellowship. Problems are: (1) the source implies the name change was in 1935 but the split was 1939 as I recall. (2) we don't mention the split so it is not clear to the reader why the church left. I think we need to explain that. There are electronic copies of the Elim Evangel from the period, but they talk a lot about Jeffreys amicably without seeming to mention he was no longer part of Elim. -- Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 13:05, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]