Talk:List of Primitive Baptist churches

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items needing support[edit]

I removed the following items from the mainspace page (List of Primitive Baptist churches). The article has been tagged for a year, about sourcing needed. Could any/all of these items be supported by an explicit inline reference, speaking to existence, Primitive Baptist-ishness, other relevance for this list-article? Please do let's try to avoid being just a directory of possibly non-notable things (see wp:NOTDIR guideline). Items which have separate articles appear to be Wikipedia-notable and I left all of those in the list-article. However items can be included in a list even if they are not individually Wikipedia-notable enough to merit a separate article. Just not sure about these.... --doncram 20:44, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Angier Primitive Baptist Church, Angier, North Carolina
  • Antioch Primitive Baptist Church, Brookhaven, Mississippi
  • Bethany Primitive Baptist Church, Suwanee, Georgia
  • Brentwood Hills Primitive Baptist Church, Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas
  • Camp Creek Primitive Baptist Church, Lilburn, Georgia
  • Chilhowee Primitive Baptist Church, Happy Valley, Blount County, Tennessee
  • Cool Springs Primitve Baptist Church, Traveler's Rest, South Carolina
  • Columbia Primitive Baptist Church, Burtonsville, Maryland
  • Crossroads Primitive Baptist Church, Atlanta, Georgia
  • Crossroads Primitive Baptist Church, Woodstock, Georgia
  • Fellowship Primitive Baptist Church, Warner-Robins, Georgia
  • Flint River Primitive Baptist Church, Huntsville, Alabama added back to main page, with source
  • Good Hope Baptist Church, Magee, Mississippi
  • Grant's Mill Primitive Baptist Church, Brimingham, Alabama
  • Moriah Primitive Baptist Church, Athens, Georgia
  • Mount Carmel Primitive Baptist Church, Bel Air, Maryland
  • Mount Gilead Primitive Baptist Church, Milledgeville, Georgia
  • Mount Olive Primitive Baptist Church, Roanoke, Virginia
  • Mount Paran Primitive Baptist Church, Monroe, Georgia
  • New Bethel Baptist Church, Tylertown, Mississippi
  • Oak Grove Primitive Baptist Church, Caochran, Georgia
  • Oak Hill Primitive Baptist Church, Austin, Texas
  • Prattville Primitive Baptist Church, Prattville, Alabama
  • Primitive Baptist Church, Cades Cove, Tennessee
  • Pulaski Primitive Baptist Church, Pulaski, Virginia
  • Shiloh Primitive Baptist Church, Loganville, Georgia
  • Shoal Creek Primitive Baptist Church, Canton, Georgia
  • Stephenville Primitive Baptist Church, Stephenville, Texas
  • Tidewater Primitive Baptist Church, Norfolk, Virginia
  • Tippacanoe Primitive Baptist Church, Tippacanoe, Indiana
  • Vestavia Primitive Baptist Church, Birmingham, Alabama
  • Union Primitive Baptist Church, Ruth, Mississippi
  • Zion's Rest Primitive Baptist Church, Jasper, Alabama
  • Littlevine Primitive Baptist Church, Dothan, Alabama
  • New Fellowship Primitive Baptist Church, Hillsville, VA
  • Blue Ridge Fellowship, Willis, VA
  • Indian Creek Primitive Baptist Church, Indian Valley, VA


Here is a source for Flint River Primitive Baptist Church of Alabama: www.flintriverpbc.org. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.73.196.98 (talk) 00:09, 29 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that! Its subpage http://www.flintriverpbc.org/about/our-church-history shows a historical plaque photo and asserts it is the oldest Baptist church in Alabama. Great, good enough for me, adding back to the list in main article. --doncram 18:08, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a link for general info on Grants Mill Primitive Baptist Church of Alabama: http://pbdirectory.org/Alabama.htm ElderHap (talk) 18:15, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Selection criteria[edit]

I think that this list could only possibly go with the first of the three possible criteria listed in WP:CSC. Obviously the second cannot apply as some Primitive Baptist churches do meet WP:N and have an article. And the third cannot apply because realistically this list can never be complete and even if it could, it would not be short. That leaves the first, "Every entry meets the notability criteria for its own non-redirect article in the English Wikipedia." With this in mind I will remove a listing that, now cited to its website, does not have a Wikipedia article. Novaseminary (talk) 02:40, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Umm, i think the church item you removed is indeed an entry that meets the 1st criteria, i.e. that " meets the notability criteria for its own non-redirect article in the English Wikipedia. Red-linked entries are acceptable if the entry is verifiably a member of the listed group, and it is reasonable to expect an article could be forthcoming in the future." As supported by a source, the church is asserted to be the oldest Baptist church in the state. It seems reasonable to include the redlink and support the creation of an article for it now or in the future. --doncram 03:15, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I did a search for sources. I could not find enough to meet ORG or N. The ref is on the church's own website, though I did find mention of the claim in a newspaper, but nothing more of note. The most coverage my quick search found was of a nearby murder. I doubt an article is forthcoming, and if there is one, I think it will have N problems. Of course, I could be wrong. If the church gets an article (Flint River Primitive Baptist Church), and it meets N and is not deleted this would be a fine addition to this list. Otherwise, until there I consensus for this addition, it should stay out. Novaseminary (talk) 03:36, 23 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
With this edit, I again removed a redlink that may not meet WP:ORG and a bare listing without a redlink or even source. We all agree these need to meet CSC #1. So, create the article and add the link rather than repeatedly adding a redlink and arguing about whether an article could be created. It would be great to expand this list, but only with churches that have articles or are likely to soon get them. As soon as Flint River Primitive Baptist Church gets an article I would be happy to personally add it back to this list. Novaseminary (talk) 19:56, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) I restored it again just now, after Novaseminary deleted it, and it may have been restored and deleted one time more previously. There is in fact perhaps a "consensus" of 2 editors commenting here or in the article, that it seems notable, and one editor opposing its inclusion. There is certainly not a "consensus" against including it. As noted above, it is apparently clearly a Primitive Baptist church, and it appears notable for being the oldest Baptist church in its state. I wonder, Novaseminary, could you please come up with a citation saying this is notable or not? It seems prudent to keep it in the list-article. Note, please, by the way, that criteria for inclusion in a list-article is a lower standard than for creating or keeping a separate Wikipedia article. --doncram 19:59, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There is obviously no consensus (WP:CONSENSUS). Only two of us have discussed, and this is material that you are seeking to add. As for the substance, CSC 1 is exactly the same criteria as WP:N, and there is no way 2 or 3 apply, of course."Every entry meets the notability criteria for its own non-redirect article in the English Wikipedia. Red-linked entries are acceptable if the entry is verifiably a member of the listed group, and it is reasonable to expect an article could be forthcoming in the future." For the reasons I stated above, I do not believe "it is reasonable to expect an article could be forthcoming in the future" for Flint River Primitive Baptist Church because, among other reasons, despite the argument here, no article has been created after months. And I have not seen enough to make me believe an article should be created. Of course, I cannot find a reference to state that this church is not notable. But prove me wrong, create the article and make sure it passes N. As for Rehobeth Primitive Baptist Church, it does not even pass WP:V as a sentence as it is, let alone satisfy CSC. Novaseminary (talk) 20:06, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

more recent items[edit]

Recently added by a new editor, and then removed by editor Novaseminary, were:

Especially because the removal eradicated 100% of the user's cumulative contributions to wikipedia, I hope that we could find our way to restoring some or all of these. Can we do some searching on these and find some support for re-adding them? --doncram 15:55, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

1823 is the year that "Elder Green Carawan of Hyde County organizes the Goose Creek Island Primitive Baptist Church", per this blogspot.com timeline, which I have no reason to doubt. This supports it being a historic, likely-wikipedia notable place. There's confusing-to-me additional info at a north carolina digital library page, covering earlier events. --doncram 16:04, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

the links at the church's name[edit]

The links are mostly to articles about the church building. Actually I thought they would be about the church as such. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 17:56, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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How do these fit in to what I have seen on Wikipedia?[edit]

The Historical Marker Database (hmdb.org) site has an entry which has a plaque I have seen in person today: "Oldest Primitive Baptist Church in America". It is Welsh Tract, near Newark, Delaware.

I have a Revolutionary ancestor Simeon Harris who is listed as being Primitive Baptist minister in the area of Barbour and Randolph counties, an area in Virginia when he died in 1847, but now West Virginia, due west of Washington DC and due south of Pittsburgh. Carlm0404 (talk) 21:28, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Notice there is an article on wikipedia for Welsh Tract Baptist Church. Carlm0404 (talk) 21:42, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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