Talk:List of churches in Moscow

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Is it worth expanding/reformatting/rewriting the list, at all? There are at least 350 churches in the city (that's Moscow Patriarchate alone, not counting monasteries, chapels, baptistries, institutional churches). Too long for a comlete and well formatted and references list? NVO (talk)

The list contains most notable churches. Of course it could be expanded or edited according to the rules of Wikipedia.Ans-mo (talk) 08:28, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

1. What, in your opinion, is the better initial sorting order in a sortable table format (i.e. like Grade I listed buildings in Greater Manchester)? i.e. by administrative okrug and name, administrative okrug, municipal district and name, or? I don't like listing by administrative okrugs, as these are too disproportionate, but then the list is too long to be presented with a single table.
2. Another point: how to integrate denominations. I really like the English format (link above), so should I add denomination within the table or follow the pattern of current list (each denomination - one top level heading)? Classification is not straightforward: there are numerous property disputes (and sometimes trades) between OB and MP, and there still is a lot of non-operating former churches (i.e. Shabolovka Almshouse dome). NVO (talk) 08:54, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
3. Yet another point to consider - notability of institutional churches (operating or closed) and recent buildings. NVO (talk) 08:54, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

proposing criteria:

chapels and chapel churches (ones authorized to serve Holy Liturgy but not doing so regularly) are not listed;

institutional churches, located within hospitals, prisons, colleges and other institutions closed to general public, are listed if the church or the building containing it are listed on the official register of protected buildings (www.mkn.com.mos.ru). This automatically excludes anything built in the last 40 years;

churches built in 1990s-2000s are listed excluding temporary churches built on construction sites of future permanent buildings, and excluding chapel churches. Standalone baptistries built near existing temples are not listed, but mentioned together with these principal temples.

churches within monasteries are not listed separately. So there may be only one entry for Donskoy monastery; but the church of St. Alexis of Novoalekseyevsky Convent deserves a separate line because it places well apart from present-day convent boundary. NVO (talk) 09:21, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Initially the list was created on the basis of the catalog presented on the page

http://www.spasi.ru/refer/church2.htm

I am not a big expert in architecture and I could agree in general with the proposed criteria. Feel free to rearrange the list or expand it as long as the content is relevant to the declared heading.Ans-mo (talk) 10:21, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

set up a separate sandbox User:NVO/LMC, its quite easy to dump excel spreadsheet if not for coordinates and refs :(( NVO (talk) 23:38, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for information. The sendbox is a good idea, it is properly made in general, and it gives oportunity to present detailed information. Several comments:

• Evangelical Baptists are usually called "Evangelical Christians Baptists". Their Central church in Moscow has its own web-site http://www.mbchurch.ru/ (3, Malyi Tryohsvyatitelskiy per). There is also a "Second church of evangelical christians baptists in Moscow (12a, Varshavskoye shosse).
• As separate protestant groupes could be added Pentecostals, Methodists, Presbyterians, Charismatics, Quakers (http://quakers.ru/english.htm), and maybe some others. Most of such groupes dont have their own buildings and gather in clubs or some other places. Ans-mo (talk) 07:17, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! have been many times at that place (3, Malyi Tryohsvyatitelskiy) and forgot it completely. The other address (12a c.1, Varshavskoye shosse) appears to be a full-time establishment, too. But I have serious objections to listing temporary places of worship. Today a preacher rents a cinema, tomorrow a stadium, there is no lasting connection and nobody will dare to update all the moves. Some religious sites list only private apartment addresses - just as fluid plus privacy concerns. NVO (talk) 12:29, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree, that it is proper to mention only permanent places of worship or churches. Temporary places could be changed time after time, so to my mind they are not necessary to be mentioned.Ans-mo (talk) 12:36, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

As for Malyi Tryohsvyatitelskiy building, as far as I know it was shared (maybe is still shared) by Evangelical Christians Baptists and Seven Days Adventists.Ans-mo (talk) 12:44, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

According to their site, it shared practically all protestant faiths, being the only legal place for protestants in the Soviet period. Continuously, never closed. NVO (talk) 14:15, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

As for Protestants

Except for already mentioned Anglican Church, there are no other separate building in Moscow originally built and dedicated to one or another Protestant Confession. Protestants usually gather in general social buildings (clubs etc.). There is a well-known building on Malyi Tryohsvyatitelskiy pereulok, but it is shared by several Protestant confessions. So the section for Protestant churches does not have any sense.Ans-mo (talk) 07:25, 15 August 2010 (UTC) This is not true. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D1%8E%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%86%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8C_%D0%A1%D0%B2%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%9C%D0%B8%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B0_%28%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B2%D0%B0%29 http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80_%D0%A1%D0%B2%D1%8F%D1%82%D1%8B%D1%85_%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0_%D0%B8_%D0%9F%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BB%D0%B0_%28%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B2%D0%B0%29 (this one I saw in the list) http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D1%8E%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%86%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8C_%D0%A1%D0%B2%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%A2%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B8%D1%86%D1%8B_%28%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B2%D0%B0%29 http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%86%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%86%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8C_%D0%95%D0%A5%D0%91 (for some time this one was THE ONLY church operation in Soviet Union. Protestants, comrad Stalin loves you!) For the full list see http://moskva.drevolife.ru/karta/oblast/moskovskaya They are very active and really targeting to kick Orthodox Church out of Russia. Alone with Russians, I suppose. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.165.173.131 (talk) 00:45, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Church of the God's Man Alexius in Krasnoye Selo

This looks heterodox to a native-English reader's eye. "The God" is perfectly good in Greek, but in English it is usually a term used by the Jehovah's Witnesses, and by (neo-)Pagan writers. I would suggest "Church of the Man of God Alexius" or "Church of Alexius, the Man of God", while not common ways of wording things outside Orthodoxy, might convey the meaning without sounding heterodox. This is a matter of (in)appropriate use of the definite article in English, and since Russian has no articles it may not be "provable" one way or the other. But I can assure you the phrase "the God's Man" does not look "normal" in English. --Haruo (talk) 21:54, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

I reworded per your suggestion. Thanks! :)--GoP_T^C_N 22:10, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

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