Talk:Malacca

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Who set sail?[edit]

The European History section begins, "In April 1511, he set sail from Goa to Malacca..." What should it say? --Jere7my 23:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

From looking at older edits, it would appear that "he" is {Portuguese viceroy of India, Afonso de Albuquerque and it became a strategic base for Portuguese expansion in the East Indies}. I know very little about this area that I will not add this information back in, but it would be nice if this was expanded upon. Autkm 01:57, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

correct. I've updated it accordingly. Merbabu 02:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Questions[edit]

The second smallest state? Probably population-wise. Check out the Wikipedia page about Penang.

is there anything we can write about malacca sugar (gula melaka)?

Native name[edit]

Reverting back to just Melaka, not Melaka, Negeri Bersejarah. I would go for the formal name under the state constitution or common accepted ones (read - postal address). If disagree, then would have to change the name of Bandar Melaka to Melaka Bandaraya Bersejarah and Johor Bahru to Johor Bahru Bandaraya Selatan, or Kuala Lumpur Garden City of Lights, just for the sake of being fair. :)

--Bukhrin 20:18, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Climate[edit]

Can someone add climate section in the article, information can be obtained from NEA Singapore - http://app.nea.gov.sg/cms/htdocs/article.asp?pid=1106 For formatting, we can use the one from Kuala Lumpur or Penang. Sorry, I tried to do it myself, but failed miserably. Any taker? Mhching 13:43, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I tried clicking into the link given but all that appeared on the page was 'Article not found!'. BejinhanTalk 12:52, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Design?[edit]

There is an awkward space made by a column of pictures. Can someone fix this?Miller4math (talk) 23:51, 19 May 2008 (UTC) . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.51.39.115 (talk) 21:03, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Article name (Malacca vs Melaka)[edit]

From my understanding, naming conversion of locations is defined by consensus in Wikipedia, not by governments. Hellboy2hell, having renamed the article from "Malacca" to its Malay counterpart, "Melaka", justified doing so based on Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka, a government body responsible for the use of Malay in the country. I do not support this move.

This is not merely for the reinstatement of the English translation but more of practical reasoning owing to the limited flexibility of the Malay name in English writing. "Melaka" conflicts with the "Malacca" as a demonym (Malaccan). "Melaka", being Malay in origin, has no known way of being used as a demonym, hence the need to use "Malaccan" instead when required to write a demonym. However, spelling differences between the two means confusion in spelling may arise and compromises consistency in writing. I believe a discussion is need to address this. - Two hundred percent (talk) 08:07, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently Melaka may also be used as a demonym (as Melakan). But the use of the English spelling still looks justified given both the New Straits Times and The Star continue to use "Malacca" as well. Btw, thanks for the move. - Two hundred percent (talk) 12:02, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I understand the debate. Historically, Malacca is the English given name replacing the native Malay name; Melaka. The state government is still campaigning for the use of the native name, Melaka. This will take time. This dilemma is similar to the same campaign in India to use the native name, Mumbai and not the English given name; Bombay.Shahrulazwad (talk) 07:50, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

While Malacca is commonly used in English language media in the country (Malaysia), since now the spelling has been changed to Melaka, there is a need to revert to its native spelling (Melaka). Similarly, when Bruce Jenner changed his/her name to Caitlyn Jenner, Wikipedia has been quick to adopt the new name while internet community is still learning about her new name. Dxmy (talk) 15:44, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that when the majority of the English media in a location start refering to an entity by a revised name then en.wikipedia.org should follow suit. In this case, it seems local English media continue to use the old spelling. --Pakbelang (talk) 05:36, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Malacca and Malacca City[edit]

I think some of the article should be placed in the wiki article Malacca City instead of here?--Rochelimit (talk) 08:09, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Which parts? CMD (talk) 10:32, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

melaka name history and conquered by alfonso de alburquerque[edit]

The name melaka came from a tree, when sultan mahmud shah sit under the tree he saw a small animal kicking a dog so he decide to name the place melaka.. melaka was conquered by alfonso de alburquerque... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.141.194.84 (talk) 09:10, 1 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was not moved. --BDD (talk) 18:51, 10 December 2012 (UTC) (non-admin closure)[reply]

– In WP:COMMONNAME says that to determine several alternative names, it is useful to observe the usage of major international organizations, major English-language media outlets, quality encyclopedias, major scientific bodies and journals. Instances on the usage of 'Melaka' by some major organizations and scholars can be observed here:-

-Andayas (A History of Malaysia)
-Barnard (Contesting Malayness)
-Milner (The Malays)
-Khoo Kay Kim (Malay society)
-Sneddon (The Indonesian language)
-Ooi Keat Gin ( Southeast Asia)
-Benjamin (Tribal Communities in the Malay World)
-Wade's Ming Shilu
-Other publications of ISEAS
-Other publications from Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland. Malaysian Branch. سڠ ڤڠليڤور لارا (talk) 13:26, 2 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Either way this article should have the Malaysian English template, so I've added it... but I'm not sure that would prove/override the proposal (I simply haven't had time to look). I also added Malacca to List of English exonyms, whichever way the RM goes. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:42, 2 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose "Melaka" is the Malay name for the city, made into an English WP:Official name that is used and promoted by the Malaysian government. All the linked source examples given above, except for the Lonely Planet, are Malaysian government and government sponsored sources, a UNESCO source and the Factbook which both use official names, and companies that have to do extensive work in Malaysia. "Malacca" is the traditional English name, and the name which is still most commonly used in English sources. Examples of sources that use Malacca are the BBC, the New York Times, Aljazeera, The Australian, and even the Malaysian New Straits Times and The Star. A google books ngram shows that "Malacca" is historically completely dominant, and even now is used three times more. In somewhat analogous cases (although obviously they're not identical), an August 2012 move request at Burma to the official name of Myanmar was closed with the result being a consensus for Burma, an early 2011 move for the city of Bangalore to be renamed to the official "Bengaluru" was almost unanimously opposed, and Cote D'Ivoire was moved to the unofficial Ivory Coast in mid-2012. The clear consensus on all of these was that an older English name that is still used is preferable to a pushed official name. CMD (talk) 00:30, 3 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What i can say, your argument is weak but surprisingly accepted by few wise men here. If the WP:Commonname should be based on google books ngram, then Bombay and Madras names should'nt be changed to "Mumbai" and "Chennai" respectively in the first place. As google books ngram shows, "Bombay" and "Madras" are supposed to be "historically completely dominant". I believe that it is wrong to name a place based on its "historically completely dominant" name. Whether you like it or not, common name should take into account the official English name as promoted by the local government as well as other major international organizations, media and academic writings by experts of the subject. NYtimes and The Australian are obviously isolated cases and not major international medias. Although there are some instances of "Malacca" used by BBC, it also used "Melaka" here and here. Similar case for Aljazeera that also used Melaka here. As for The Star and Nst, please see explanation from In ictu oculi below. There are also abundant use of "Melaka" in other major English dailies in Malaysia; The Sun, The Malay Mail, The Edge, Sarawak Tribune, Borneo Post, Daily Express and The NST.OG|سڠ ڤڠليڤور لارا (talk) 12:03, 4 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
According to 2010 census, the national language (Malay) speaking population of Melaka city district outnumbered these so called "English-speaking" minority, neither these majority think the name Malacca name as "traditional" to their town.OG|سڠ ڤڠليڤور لارا (talk) 02:07, 3 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Orhanghazi, yes I get that. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:31, 3 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per WP:UE (use English)/WP:OFFICIALNAMES. Note the evidence of English usage provided by User:Chipmunkdavis and User:In ictu oculi above. —  AjaxSmack  03:56, 3 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Malacca is still its common name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 20:59, 3 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The fact that even Malaysian English-language news sources use Malacca is fairly compelling. It's regrettable but it's required by WP:UCN. In summary, per CMD. --Mkativerata (talk) 09:52, 4 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - A quick check through Google Scholar for the use of "Malacca" and "Melaka" shows that the former is cited about 20,000 results higher than the latter. Omitting the term "strait" and "straits" from the results shows "Malacca" is 10,000 results higher than "Melaka", possibly indicating a more commonly used term of Malacca in English-language academic papers. Also, to say certain news sources ie NYTimes and The Australian are isolated cases and not major international media automatically shots down any credibility to use The Star, the NST, the Borneo Post, the Sun, the Malay Mail etc to support that same argument as they too are isolated cases catering mostly to the Malaysian audience. Admittedly searching news usage through Google might not be reliable as pointed out in WP:GOOGLETEST, and these major news sources use both terms interchangeably. — Blue。 01:53, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Similarly, "Bombay" outnumbered "Mumbai" by about 300,000 and "Madras" outnumbere "Chennai" by 270,000 in google scholar, we cant name an article based on google search. My original sources are not of "certain news sources", but its official usage (Melaka State Gov and Tourism Malaysia) as well as usage in some major international organizations (UNESCO and CIA), major international publications (Lonely Planet, Google Maps), major regional airlines and banks, major academic sources and major encyclopedias (Britannica, Malaysia) that are obviously not intended exclusively for Malaysian audience. Please check again who brought about "certain news sources" here as i was merely replying his comment.OG|سڠ ڤڠليڤور لارا (talk) 05:09, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Indian place names are a different case. In favour of renaming our articles on Bombay, Madras and Calcutta, it was argued (not persuasively in my opinion) that, as English is an official language of India, the current official Indian version of the names should be used on English Wikipedia. This is not the case for Malaysia, where English, although widely used, is not strictly an official language. It's highly controversial even for India (given the political reasons for the renaming, the fact that many even in India oppose it, and the fact that many, if not most, Indians continue to use the old names). -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:54, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The point is, google search is not the only source you must rely on, any people can write any stuff and upload any books and articles, which later appeared in google search results. International recognition from major English language sources are more vital, as outlined in WP:Commonname. And this is the case for Mumbai, Chennai and Melaka.OG|سڠ ڤڠليڤور لارا (talk) 13:22, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, but you haven't proved that it is the case for Malacca. A search on the BBC website, for instance, produces 76 hits for Malacca and only 10 for Melaka. The BBC is certainly a "major English language source". And it's not alone, as outlined above. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:34, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
a bit surprised to read the claim that i haven't proved anything when i have listed up major international organizations (UNESCO and CIA), encyclopedias, dictionaries (Oxford and Merriam-Webster), scholarly sources and even Map (google Maps). And what you wise men able to produce are some google searches and news sources that only contradicting themselves by having both spellings!. LOLOG|سڠ ڤڠليڤور لارا (talk) 03:57, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - The current Mayor of Melaka repeatedly used "Malacca" in his English written speech in the official Melaka City Council website: [1]. I think this shows that this RM may be still too early as what User:In ictu oculi suggested above. ќמшמφטтгמtorque 02:04, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Quite agree with your concern that this RM is a bit early. But we must be realistic, even if we wait for another one thousand years, the current google search results as pointed out by certain editors here would not likely change, as there will always ignorant and misinformed individuals adding contents on the internet. All these would in turn added up with contents from over 200 years ago that used Malacca. I am merely suggesting the move that already taken by others, e.g: Britannica, UNESCO, CIA, Oxford dictionaries, Merriam-Webster dictionaries, Google Maps and so on.OG|سڠ ڤڠليڤور لارا (talk) 03:57, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Melaka vs Malacca revisited[edit]

The result of the above RM was undoubtly predictable, given the state of the three articles - Malacca, Malacca City and Malacca Sultanate - which were trashes to begin with. However, what wonders me a lot is that, while WP place high regards to facts in verifying its contents, all my evidences pointing the use of "Melaka" by some major organizations were repeatedly ignored in the discussion, in favour of some google searches and some news sources contradicting themselves (having both spellings Melaka and Malacca in their contents). There was even an editor commenting that I haven't proved anything! LOL,thus implying that he didnt bother to read my evidences at all before making any decision. Is this the quality of editors that WP has in managing these articles? Then I doubt when these articles will ever improve. This RM won't be the last though. Sooner or later, I have the confidence that the old name "Melaka" will replace the colonial corrupted spelling name "Malacca" here, as the former is increasingly gaining ground globally, evidenced by below usage:

1) Major English dictionaries - these serve as a big slap to the face who repeatedly said that "Melaka is a Malay name, not English name"

2) Quality Encyclopedias

3) International organizations

4) Global Media

5) Academic writings

  • Other comprehensive academic writings on Malay studies by notable scholars specialized in the subject (to name a few)
-Andayas (A History of Malaysia)
-Barnard (Contesting Malayness)
-Milner (The Malays)
-Khoo Kay Kim (Malay society)
-Sneddon (The Indonesian language)
-Ooi Keat Gin ( Southeast Asia)
-Benjamin (Tribal Communities in the Malay World)
-Wade's Ming Shilu
-Other publications of ISEAS
-Other publications from Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland. Malaysian Branch.

6) Official usage by state and federal government

7) Usage by key companies of Malaysia

Ya rly! Next thing you know, every Malaysian will only understand Malay, wear ethnic Malay attire, eat nothing but nasi lemak until they are morbidly obese, ferociously support the ruling party, act like uneducated kampung folk, and support the annexation of Singapore! Malaysia boleh! - 175.138.74.235 (talk) 07:42, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
'Malacca' as a 'colonial corrupted spelling name'? Oh please, the Portuguese and English were spelling it this way long before most natives even knew how to write. InfernoXV (talk) 03:23, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Request Move to Melaka[edit]

Hi all,

Apparently the government of Malacca (now Melaka) has officially declared the English name for Malacca is now Melaka, as stated in the news: http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v8/ge/newsgeneral.php?id=1352712

Can you help move this page to Melaka article? Because in Melaka article, it has been redirected to Malacca article. Now we need to do the other way around.

Chongkian (talk) 00:33, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't work like this. Per WP:MODERNPLACENAME, "name does not automatically follow the official or local form, but depends on that change having become predominant in common global usage." Malacca is still the standard name in English, until Melaka has become the common form, then it will remain Malacca. This will mean of course that the usage would need to be monitored over time. Hzh (talk) 00:47, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Governments don't get to dictate English usage like this. InfernoXV (talk) 03:15, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: While the state government of Malacca has recently announced the name change from Malacca to Melaka,[1][2] it should be noted that the Malaysian federal constitution still uses the term Malacca.[3] One of the many examples of the usage of the name Malacca in Malaysia's federal constitution is as follows.
Article 1 Clause (2b)
The States of the Federation shall be - the States of Malaya, namely, Johore, Kedah, Kelantan, Malacca, Negeri Sembilan, Pahang, Penang, Perak, Perlis, Selangor and Terengganu...
Just my two cents' worth. Hopefully this aspect should be considered before actually renaming the Malacca page.Vnonymous 06:07, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
Support. 'Malacca is still the standard name in English' <---what kind of stupid statement is this? If that's the case, then how on earth 'Melaka' is listed in Oxford and Merriam Webster dictionaries instead of Malacca?. Do you know what 'malacca' means in Oxford dictionaries instead?, Brown cane that is used for walking sticks and umbrella handles. And thats not all. Did you know that the largest travel guide book publisher in the world, Lonely Planet, is also using 'Melaka'? and so another famous website tripadvisor? Did you know that even CIA is using 'Melaka'? and also Unesco? Ø:G (talk) 02:51, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Burj Dubai was unanimously changed to Burj Khalifa, thus the whole world followed Immediately. Sears Tower was unanimously changed to Willis Tower, thus the whole world followed Immediately. They didn't wait until everyone realizes/knows the new name change or when the whole world agree to accept it. Chongkian (talk) 03:29, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Historically, Malacca is always more popular then Melaka in English usage, see for example [2] It may well change in the future, I'd say wait for a couple more years and see. Hzh (talk) 16:08, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I will list down all of the Melaka naming usage from English-language online news website from around the world. Chongkian (talk) 03:43, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • China CCTV[4], South China Morning Post[5] say Melaka already.
  • India The Times of India says Melaka already.[6]
  • Malaysia New Straits Time says Melaka already.[7]
  • Singapore Straits Times says Melaka already.[8]
  • Taiwan Taipei Times says Melaka already.[9]
  • United Kingdom The Sun says Melaka already.[10]
  • United States CNN[11], USA Today[12] say Melaka already.
  • Still Oppose for now. This kind of things takes time, you really need a consistent usage pattern to argue for a change. It really doesn't help giving selective coverage because they are also many counter-examples, some even in the same newspapers you cited, for example in the recent incident in the Strait of Malacca - [3][4][5][6][7]. Various other recent articles in different countries also still use Malacca - [8][9][10], even in Malaysian publications - [11][12][13][14], Malacca is still used. Hzh (talk) 10:47, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
According to WP:COMMONNAME, to determine several alternative names, it is useful to observe the usage of major international organizations, major English-language media outlets, quality encyclopedia, and major scientific bodies and journals. While the best you can get are some insignificant news portals which already contradicting themselves by using both spellings. Funny. Straits of Malacca is not the issue here as it is a different entity not directly related the state itself, in similar way Borneo should retain its spelling although it was named after the historical Brunei. There are already international publications that use both Melaka and Straits of Malacca in one article, for example this article by Unesco. Ø:G (talk) 15:12, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Does not change the argument even if you remove Strait of Malacca. You can find both spellings in many major news outlets (both forms may be used by the same publications), there is no consistency in recent articles, for example Malacca - [15], [16] [17] [18], Melaka [19] [20][21]. There is no clear trends internationally in major English speaking countries - US, UK, Australia, India, etc. The only clear preference for Melaka is in countries where the Malay language is used, like in Malaysia - [22] (therefore irrelevant as far as English is concerned). I'd say wait and see what happens next. Hzh (talk) 19:39, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/malacca-now-known-as-melaka-says-state-government
  2. ^ http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/malaysian-state-of-malacca-to-be-called-melaka-from-now-on-8815372
  3. ^ http://www.agc.gov.my/agcportal/uploads/files/Publications/FC/Federal%20Consti%20(BI%20text).pdf
  4. ^ http://english.cntv.cn/2015/10/06/VIDE1444106763500646.shtml
  5. ^ http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/2087402/can-china-really-deliver-malaysias-singapore-slayer
  6. ^ http://www.straitstimes.com/lifestyle/travel/new-book-on-worlds-secret-marvels-features-malaysias-glass-temple-portuguese
  7. ^ https://www.nst.com.my/lifestyle/groove/2017/08/274116/gula-melaka-be-featured-bbcs-good-food-show
  8. ^ http://www.straitstimes.com/lifestyle/travel/new-book-on-worlds-secret-marvels-features-malaysias-glass-temple-portuguese
  9. ^ http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2016/11/16/2003659367
  10. ^ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3308207/cctv-footage-ghost-police-station-doors-night/
  11. ^ http://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/malaysia-best-islands/index.html
  12. ^ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/07/05/melaka-malaysia-china-project/423027001/

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"The harmonious life and ambience of the people of Malacca is attributed to the life of various races and ethnicities that have long existed among the local community..."[edit]

The last sentence of the lede isn't supported by the sources cited. Malacca is ethnically diverse, certainly, but statements regarding harmony and ambience need to be based on something that actually says the same thing, if not necessarily in those exact words. If nobody comes up with such a source (which might be hard to find in anything beyond a tourist brochure, I'd suspect) I'll remove it. 165.120.15.66 (talk) 06:34, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've just removed it. Meaninglessly fluffy. CMD (talk) 07:37, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

languages?[edit]

What does this sentence mean? "The Orang Asli languages spoken within Malacca are mostly speakers of the Temuan language." --47.54.6.137 (talk) 00:20, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've rewritten it as "The Temuan language is commonly spoken by Orang Asli within Malacca". Unfortunately there's no source, so it's hard to divine if more was meant than that. CMD (talk) 03:08, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Request for Wikipedia Page Name Change from Malacca to Melaka (2024)[edit]

Current title: Malacca

Proposed title: Melaka

Previous discussions result: Declined (2 December 2012)

Previous discussion participants:(I hope this is okay/correct, as I am still a noob at Wikipedia):

  • opposing: Hellboy2hell, Chipmunkdavis, Necrothesp, Mkativerata, Hzh, InfernoXV
  • supportive: Two_hundred_percent, Orhanghazi, Chongkian
  • constructive/others: Bukhrin, Shahrulazwad, Pakbelang, In_ictu_oculi, Bluerfn, Kawaputra,

In 2017, the Melaka State Executive Council formally adopted "Melaka" as its official English spelling.[1] This decision reflects the state's desire for internal consistency and a strengthened cultural identity. Since then, "Melaka" has seen increasing usage within government bodies, media outlets, and throughout the state itself.

It's "Melaka", not "Malacca", from now on

"Melaka State Secretary Datuk Seri Naim Abu Bakar said that all newspapers and the media, whether Bahasa Malaysia, English or any other language, shall use Melaka in writing or when mentioning the state. "This is intended to standardise the use of the name Melaka, especially in English," he said in a statement here today

NST Online

This proposal outlines the reasons for aligning Wikipedia's naming conventions with this official designation. It will explore the historical usage of both spellings, consider precedents set by similar name changes, and address potential counterarguments. The emphasis is on Wikipedia's commitment to accuracy and respecting official naming practices.

The official name change by the Melaka state government is the catalyst for this shift. Major media outlets, and increasingly the public, are aligning with the state's current official designation.

Wikipedia's role here is to reflect current realities, as well as mirroring the past. I do apologise beforehand if I got anything in incorrect formats, quotes, etc.

Media shift[edit]

This trend extends beyond government entities and into the wider media landscape. Major English newspaper outlets has been adopting Melaka name.

Here are the latest updates in 2024:

  1. Melaka has been used in Al Jazeera interchangeably with Malacca. Malacca now usually referred to the Strait of Malacca or Malacca Strait. Latest news about Melaka as state was back in 2022.
  2. BBC (bbc.co.uk) has referred Melaka as state as early as 10 Nov 2002 and has never used Malacca to refer it as a state (or maybe they have updated it, but I can't find it after 2000), meanwhile BBC (bbc.com) persistently using Malacca. This is slightly confusing as despite BBC.com, the result from search it gave me led me to BBC.co.uk. the redirection between .com and .co.uk can understandably to make people only making one stance on it. Here is the archive from latest BBC website showing the search bar leads to co.uk (on top right). Despite BBC.com Malacca usage, BBC UK's has a tv show called Great Asian Railway Journey: "Melaka to Johor Bahru" (imdb here)
  3. New York Times used Melaka about a twinning college between Malaysia and India that is located in Melaka.
  4. The Australian wrote "Melaka" in several stories to refer to the state, but results may vary.
  5. Many main English daily newspaper in Malaysia no longer use "Malacca" to call the state, be it The Star, Malay Mail, The Edge, The Borneo Post, New Straits Times, or Focus Malaysia after 2017, with the exception of Bernama news agency (but Melaka has more results), The Sun, Daily Express, and New Sarawak Tribune who used it interchangeably.
  6. Google Scholar 2024 version of Melaka (the state) which yields 559 results, while Malacca (not necessarily specific to refer to state), yields only 202 results.
  7. Google books search results that were referred to are truncated at 2019, so I made a manual search and I found that recent journal publications (2023-2024) in other fields seem to favor the "Melaka" spelling over "Malacca" below:

However, I have tried to contact some who used Malacca in their English publication, to ask their reasoning in using it, despite Melaka has been used in many English newspapers and continue to increase in its presence post-2017's announcement.

The Evolving Usage of 'Melaka' and 'Malacca'[edit]

While the current trend clearly favors "Melaka," the name's usage has a more complex historical background. To understand this evolution, let's take a look at findings from archives on Google Books about Melaka and Malacca.

The Telegraph-Herald and Times-Journal from 1930 references 'Melaka[2],' while 'Malacca[3]' can be found as early as 1766 in The Halifax Gazette. This timeline suggests a more complex history of usage than a simple 'English vs. Malay' distinction. If there is evidence from other historical sources (particularly private or registered archives) that further clarifies or nullify this history, I welcome their consideration(s).

. . .Talk by Miss Della Olson, missionary from Melaka, Malay:[2]. . .

"The language that is spoken among all the people, from what place forever they originally came is the Malay. . .and probably it is a corrupt dialect of that spoken at Malacca. Every little island indeed has a language of its own and Java has two or three, but this Lingua Franca is the only language that is now spoken here, and, as I am told, it prevails over a great part of the East Indies. A dictionary of Malay and English was published in London by Thomas Bowrey in the year 1701."[3][4]

The earliest known data that I can get my hands on when talking about the relation of Portuguese and Melaka is in a French newspaper written by Willem Lodewijcksz

Page of Melaka Historic City Council uses "Melaka"[5] while not denying the old name "Malacca" in the speech of current Mayor[6].

Further, UNESCO recognizes the distinction between "Melaka" (the state) and the "Strait of Malacca".[7][8] This was also announced back in 2008 in the Malaysia Tourism government website.

The Melaka state government has formally adopted the name 'Melaka', as seen on their website (https://www.melaka.gov.my) and in their tourism campaign 'Visit Melaka 2024' (https://www.visitmelaka.com.my) which is this has already started and was already announced in March 2023[9].

MELAKA.gov.my has been recorded of its name in Wayback Machine as early as 21 Apr 1998 and using Melaka in its English version[10]. This was way back before the official announcement. There is no malacca.gov.my has been found in any web archive websites so far.

if you search "visit malacca 2024", it will ask "Did you mean: visit melaka 2024" in Google. Same goes with other search engines, for example Bing or DuckDuckGo.

Counterargument for opposing statements[edit]

"Malacca is the dominant term due to historical search results from a search engine"[edit]

The reliability of numerical search results is questionable. Google's search filters appear to produce inconsistent totals. Notably, in Google Books, "Books" and "Any documents" often yield identical results for both "Malacca" and "Melaka." or any search results. But there are few additional numbers when you select "Magazines" or "Newspaper". This makes the 73 magazines and 11,300 newspaper results obtained for "Malacca" seem impossible, as they should be included within the 'Any documents' total.

While historical Google Books data might favor "Malacca," focusing solely on the past ignores the present reality. Even within 21st-century publications, "Melaka" (excluding "strait(s)") has a significant presence with 176,000 results, as shown in table below.

In a spirit of data transparency, and taking only 21st century search results from Google books are:

malacca malacca -strait -straits melaka melaka -strait -straits
577,000[11] 310,000[12] 228,000[13] 176,000[14]

Google News results clearly demonstrate a substantial shift towards "Melaka." A search for "Malacca" currently yields 598 results, while "Melaka" yields 11,100 results. This reflects a rapidly changing landscape in how news outlets refer to the state. Before you say "but wait, that's not all in English", I just would like to remind that this is to show if the word is being used globally, NOT just English.

However, do note that this is not the matter which spelling have more in the news, or which spelling is "historically completely dominant", but to show that the media as of date has already using Melaka to denote it as a state in English mediums.

". . . -an older English name that is still used is preferable to a pushed official name-. . ."[edit]

Wikipedia's commitment to accuracy aligns with using official names designated by governing bodies. Some of the examples:

1. Mumbai/Bombay (India): This is evident in the Mumbai (formerly Bombay) example by Shahrulazwad

2. Aceh/Acheh (Indonesia): Aceh (sometimes referred to as 'Acheh') examples, demonstrating the importance of reflecting current designations regardless of historical usage.

3. Rhode Island/Rhode Island and providence plantations (United States): Similarly, U.S. states like Rhode Island maintain their official names despite historical variants within their constitution, reinforcing their autonomy in how they are represented.

4. Porto/Oporto (Portugal): Both "Oporto" and "Malacca" are older, anglicised spellings rooted in the colonial era. "Porto" and "Melaka" are the official names, reflecting Portuguese and Malay linguistic origins respectively. This change, although smaller, shows a shift toward respecting the native-language designation.

5. Jakarta/Batavia (Indonesia): Batavia was the Dutch colonial name for the capital of Indonesia. After independence, the official name shifted to Jakarta, the native Indonesian designation. Wikipedia even have Old Batavia which is now commonly known as Kota Tua Jakarta. How amazing is that?! (btw, kudos Indo wikipedians, those pages are very thoroughly written)

6. Yangon/Rangoon(Myanmar): The former capital of Myanmar was known as Rangoon under British rule.  In 1989, the military government officially changed the name to Yangon, a closer representation of the Burmese pronunciation. Does this imply that Wikipedia allows a name change as long as it happened before the existence of Wikipedia site?

7. Ho Chi Minh City/Saigon (Vietnam): While both names are now used, this example is more complex. Saigon, the name associated with the French colonial era, remains common in everyday speech.  Ho Chi Minh City is the official name, declared after reunification to honor a revolutionary leader.

8. Thailand/Siam: while not a state, it demonstrates Wikipedia's commitment to reflecting current official names, even when these differ from historical spellings. This principle should likewise apply to changing 'Malacca' to 'Melaka.'

Many of these cases involve a shift from an exonym (a name used by outsiders) to an endonym (the name used by the people who live there). This concept is relevant to "Malacca/Melaka." Some changes involve significant spelling differences (Batavia/Jakarta), others are more about pronunciation (Rangoon/Yangon). The Malacca/Melaka shift is somewhat in between the two.

As highlighted by @Chongkian, the swift global adoption of 'Burj Khalifa' (formerly Burj Dubai) and 'Willis Tower' (formerly Sears Tower) demonstrates precedent for embracing name changes led by official bodies. It underscores that widespread public awareness is not a prerequisite for a Wikipedia page name change.

@Chongkian "Burj Dubai was unanimously changed to Burj Khalifa, thus the whole world followed Immediately. Sears Tower was unanimously changed to Willis Tower, thus the whole world followed Immediately. They didn't wait until everyone realizes/knows the new name change or when the whole world agree to accept it.

This proposal aligns with Wikipedia's core principles of accuracy, reliance on verifiable sources (WP:RS), and using official names (WP:OFFICIALNAMES). Adopting "Melaka," the official name formally established by the Melaka Historic City Council[15][16][17], reflects these commitments. While "Malacca" might have greater historical usage, Wikipedia's policy on common names (WP:COMMONNAMES) and WP:NCGN acknowledges cases where official names superseded previous common ones. Precedents like Mumbai (formerly Bombay) and Aceh further illustrate this. Prioritising the official name "Melaka" supports a neutral point of view (WP:NPOV), ensuring Wikipedia reflects current realities rather than solely emphasising historical usage. If I am wrong with this statement and the links to the Wikipedia guideline pages, kindly inform me.

Anyway, in light of these principles, the shift towards 'Melaka' as evidenced both by the state government and reputable media sources warrants its adoption as the Wikipedia page title. A redirect from ‘Malacca’ ensures accessibility while prioritising the current official name.

"Oh please, the Portuguese and English were spelling it this way long before most natives even knew how to write."

It's important to acknowledge that the earliest known Google Books results for 'Malacca' and 'Portuguese' primarily originate from the colonial period. A 1598 text[18], published roughly 90 years after the conquest of Melaka in 1511, provides an early example. These sources inherently reflect European perspectives and priorities, rather than those of the local inhabitants. They demonstrate how colonial powers often imposed their language and naming practices. It's crucial to remember that these historical records don't necessarily represent the definitive or self-chosen names used by the people of Melaka themselves.

For a more complete understanding of naming practices, it's essential to consider sources like the Sejarah Melayu (Malay Annals). Despite being compiled later and in Jawi script, this work offers valuable insights into local perspectives on identity and place-names that are often overshadowed by colonial sources. The word 'ملاک' (Melak) can be spelled as Malaka/Malak/Melak/Melaka depending on your understanding of Jawi script.

The Malay Annals publication date is listed as 17 February 1873 in the US Library of Congress [19], with the text located in the British Library. If this reflects the first time it was documented, and given Tun Sri Lanang's lifespan throughout the 17th century, publication would have occurred roughly 280 years after its creation.

However, this conflicts with John Leyden's readily available translation, published in 1821. It's possible this date reflects the work's submission to the British Library. Unfortunately, as the British Library was hacked last year [20][21], we currently have limited data beyond the US Library of Congress link. Until this is resolved, John Leyden retains his status as the first translator of the Malay Annals in 1821.

The Hikayat Bayan Budiman (English: "The Tale of Bayan Budiman") was translated from Sanskrit to Persian, and then into Malay by Kadi Hassan in 773 AH (1371 AD)[22]. This would have been written in Jawi script, as the Roman alphabet only arrived in the Malay Archipelago with European colonisers. R.O Windstedt finally published Bayan's story in 1966, using manuscripts dated 1852 and 1849.

Therefore, native peoples do possess literacy skills long before the arrival of the Portuguese and other colonials, just not in a Romanised form. That came much later.[23][24]

--

This is why it's important to still uphold the usage of Malacca for past archival, but not the present one.

I am not calling for Malacca to be removed from the content, just on the names of places and things that should have changed their name to use Melaka in the present time.

"Melaka" is the Malay name for the city, made into an English[edit]

It's misleading to claim that 'Malacca' is inherently an English name while 'Melaka' is exclusively Malay as shown in earlier examples of name mention found in Google Books archive above. Melaka is the state's official name and is used in English-language communication by the state government and major media outlets. To uphold 'Malacca' in the Malaysian constitution while other states such as Johor (then Johore) have standardised English spellings undermines this principle and creates internal inconsistency. Applying the same respect for self-determination shown in these cases strengthens the argument for adopting 'Melaka.'

Changing the Wikipedia page title to "Melaka" reinforces its alignment with the state's official name, promotes consistency throughout Wikipedia, and avoids potential confusion for readers.

The goal is to prevent future confusion. Using the official name provides long-term clarity for researchers, regardless of how common the spelling is at this exact moment. While Wikipedia acknowledges the historical significance of the term “Malacca,” respecting the current official name adopted by the Melaka state government takes precedence. A redirect from "Malacca" to "Melaka" again will ensure easy access for all users. As evidenced throughout this proposal, this change is increasingly reflected in media and institutional usage.

While some might argue that historical usage is sufficient, a lack of standardisation can create confusion for future researchers. Imagine a researcher or an archiver in the future encountering both spellings in documents without a clear understanding of the state's official name change.

For example: A researcher 50 years from now might encounter documents from the early 21st century using both "Malacca" and "Melaka."

Without standardisation, this could lead to uncertainty about whether these refer to the same entity or potentially different locations.

It's understandable to value the historical resonance of 'Malacca' or its usage on specific entities like the 'Malacca City Council'. However, languages evolve, and official recognition by a government/council carries weight. We can acknowledge the past while embracing the current and future direction of 'Melaka' as the state's official name spelling as being shown with the welcome message by the current Melaka mayor. While the origins of 'Malacca' are linked to a colonial past, respecting the current official name 'Melaka' reflects the state's right to self-determination in the present.

Additional info[edit]

Melaka and Malacca Strait[edit]

Ultimately, adopting 'Melaka' promotes clarity (avoiding confusion with the Strait), demonstrates respect for the state's decision, and creates a more consistent global image for Melaka. Melaka is indeed a currently used state name in Malaysia, while Malacca is an old name that no one wants to erase from the history be it "English origin".

At the current moment, the Strait of Malacca will be the same function as "Strait of Gibraltar" or "English Channel", so there should not be Malacca Straits Mosque but it's Malacca Strait Mosque. It's akin to say in Malay instead of Masjid Selat Melaka[25], and because of Wikipedia, it turned to plural ("Masjid Selat-Selat Melaka"), which does not make sense. It's making sense when you put it in Straits Settlements as it means "Negeri-negeri Selat" which is in plural, and correct.

  • Masjid = mosque
  • Selat = Strait
  • Melaka = Malacca (for now)

Therefore, in English it would be "Malacca Strait Mosque". Not Malacca Straits Mosque. There's unfortunately only one mosque there with the name, thus the usage of "Strait" as opposed to "Straits"

Precedent in Wikipedia: Despite there are people using the "Straits of Gibraltar[26]," Wikipedia recognise Strait of Gibraltar and allow "Straits of Gibraltar" to be mentioned as the old name. Again, I hope this is not due to "how much the results in search engine(s)" but after thorough discussion. People who are writing it as Malacca Straits in the past may or may not equate the usage of "Straits" in newspapers (namely New Straits Times or The Straits Times) which is a brand proper noun now more than a place. It's either Malacca Strait or Strait of Malacca, and neither should use plurals in it. "Strait" is one and "Straits" is many. We can all work together and minimise or eliminate these confusions at least in Wikipedia pages.

Pages moved extensively[edit]

@Hongqilim's extensive history of changing titles and moving pages to 'Malacca' between February 2021 and August 2023 highlights the urgent need to align Wikipedia's content with the official name change. Since the 2012 proposal rejection[27], two ignored requests on 16 December 2012 and 4 May 2017; and the state's subsequent 2017 formal adoption of 'Melaka,' these changes were made without current official backing. Since this editor has been banned, it's crucial for the community to review and address these inconsistencies.[28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40][41][42]

Other move by others:

This name change is about more than a location on a map; it's about respecting the right of a state to define its own identity. The evidence is overwhelming: from the state's official declaration to the shift in how it's represented in the media, "Melaka" is the name it has chosen for itself. Wikipedia has a responsibility to reflect the world as it is, not just how it was. By adopting "Melaka," with a redirect from "Malacca" to preserve historical context, we uphold Wikipedia's core values. This isn't just about accuracy; it's about acknowledging that names hold power, and places, like people, deserve the dignity of being called what they call themselves.

I can put some of the name of Malacca in Wikipedia but Melaka in major news outlets, but I think my comment here is a tad long already...

TL;DR:

  • Melaka's government officially changed the state's English spelling to "Melaka" a few years back. The last discussion was 12 years ago.
  • Since then, there are three requests
  • Most news and official websites are mostly using "Melaka" now same goes internationally.
  • A name change isn't a popularity contest or be measured by how much it is trending – it's about respecting that official decision and moving with time.
  • We can still keep the history of "Malacca" with a redirect – best of both worlds.
  • Wikipedia should use official names and stay up-to-date. That's basically how this place works.[citation needed]
  • Other name changes (like Mumbai/Bombay) have happened before, so this isn't some crazy idea or a wishful thinking.
  • Proposing to vote to change it to "Melaka". That way, Wikipedia will be accurate and respectful of the state's official name.
  • Visit Melaka this year for Visit Melaka 2024 (optional)

I believe this is a decision that needs votes and a good discussion once and for all, and I hope that my references are suffice for an approval.

Thanks. nMyghet (talk) 13:02, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To request a potentially controversial article move - see WP:PCM. I would suggest you make a request there to raise attention for your request. Keep it concise and not so wordy.
Articles are titled by their WP:COMMONNAME. This is an English language wikipedia, so use in English is relevant per WP:UE and not worldwide use (so for English articles, it's not Deutschland, it's Germany, it's not Firenze, it's Florence), and there is no evidence that Melaka is preferred over Malacca in English language books even if the use of Melaka has increased in recent years - see for example [23] (Malacca is still used twice as often). You can argue that there is greater use worldwide using Google Trend - [24], although that is distorted by the use in Malaysia. In major English-speaking countries, Malacca still had the edge - USUK (you can however argue that the difference is not great to make a difference). Hzh (talk) 18:59, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
>To request a potentially controversial article move - see WP:PCM. I would suggest you make a request there to raise attention for your request.
Thank you for the suggestion! I'll explore the WP:PCM process soonish. In the meantime, I'd still appreciate input from others on the evidence I've presented so far. Unless it's an "USUS" case.
>In major English-speaking countries, Malacca still had the edge - USUK (you can however argue that the difference is not great to make a difference
You're right that 'Malacca' remains in use. However, my point is about the increasing prominence of 'Melaka' in respected English-language media over recent decades, not the amount of only and only search results. This shift, even if gradual, signals a need to reassess the article title. Why do you think it's irrelevant for reassessment after 12 years? :)
>there is no evidence that Melaka is preferred over Malacca in English language books even if the use of Melaka has increased in recent years. see for example [23]
While Google Books Ngram has historical value, it's crucial to consider recent usage trends too. Since 2019, there's been a notable increase in 'Melaka' across various sources. Would you be open to looking at examples of this again in my original comment?
Cheers! nMyghet (talk) 19:24, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I hope you are not trying to bypass the standard procedure for page-move. If it could be controversial, then do it the right way.
At the moment, I see no clear evidence that there is increasing use of Melaka in English language books. I check Google books for date between 2019 and 2024 Malacca and Melaka, you can see that there are a lot of Malay language books that use Melaka, but Malacca is more mixed, but it's mostly English books that used Malacca. Also a lot of the English-langauge ones that use Melaka have Malaysian authors or publishers, which would suggest outside of Malaysia or its neighbours, Malacca is the one that is used preferentially.
Don't know why you think I said it's irrelevant for reassessment after 12 years, my approach has always been to monitor the situation and see if the situation changes. The interesting thing about Google Trends is that it showed for a period in 2020 publications in US and UK used Melaka preferentially, but more recently it has changed back to Malacca. It is still a fluid situation. Since the Strait of Malacca is almost always spelt Malacca, you can argue that Melaka refers to the state, Malacca to the strait, although you will do more work to show that this is true with respect to the sources. Hzh (talk) 22:06, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the reminder about the WP:PCM guidelines. I understand the importance of following the correct procedures. I'd like to propose a community discussion in this talk page regarding a potential name change or redirect of this article to 'Melaka'. Wikipedia benefits from collaborative decision-making, and I welcome diverse perspectives on this matter.

"At the moment, I see no clear evidence that there is increasing use of Melaka in English language books..."

While Google Books and Google Books Ngram can be informative, my research has primarily focused on reputable English-language news outlets. In my Media shift comment, I provided links demonstrating consistent or interchangeably usage of 'Melaka' in recent years by BBC UK, The Australian, and The New York Times. I also included publications not using 'Melaka' at all like BBC.com (US). I have also included the usage of "Melaka" name in the Iowa news publication The Telegraph-Herald and Times-Journal which falls under US states back in 1930 in my comment, excerpt included. I found this while looking at "Newspaper" tab[43] in Google Books. This suggests historical usage of 'Melaka' in English outside of Malaysia (then Federation of Malaya) exists, while not forgetting or even putting aside that Malacca has a lot more.
Language dynamics and name change are intriguing – for example, a single word[44] found in a credible news archive of NewspaperSG) can carry diverse meanings depending on the region. :)
Therefore, English versus native name (in Malay) argument is less relevant to this discussion. These sources present compelling evidence of the current usage trends and existent of each other variations.

"...a lot of the English-language ones that use Melaka have Malaysian authors or publishers, which would suggest outside of Malaysia or its neighbors, Malacca is the one that is used preferentially."

The Rangoon[45]/Yangon[46] case (a state of Myanmar) underscores that best practices for determining common usage, and Wikipedia titles, involve consulting multiple search engines (as demonstrated here using other search engines). This ensures inclusivity of results, as even comprehensive tools like Google Books might not capture all linguistic variations across platforms and regions.
The emphasis on "established English news outlets" in the 2012 decision of Melaka/Malacca...it highlights their importance in determining common usage trends. My findings suggest a potential shift worth considering when revisiting the article title.
From my end, I've analysed both Google News and Google Books results for 'Malacca' and 'Melaka' after the official 2017 announcement, focusing on English-language sources. Rather than the sheer number of results, here's a summary of my Google Books first-page findings, which are additional to my initial comment. For transparency, my Google search setting[47] had no region restrictions to ensure inclusivity:
  • 'Malacca'[48]: results include historical references, with no article referencing about the present state.
  • 'Melaka'[49][50]: yields significantly more results discussing the state in its current context.
While Google Books has its limitations, these findings suggest a possible shift in usage favouring 'Melaka'.

"Since the Strait of Malacca is almost always spelt Malacca, you can argue that Melaka refers to the state, Malacca to the strait..."

My focus remains on demonstrating the most common usage for the state within established English-language sources. Regarding the Strait of Malacca, it's appropriate to retain the current name unless there's an official change and widespread adoption in non-Malay publications. Additionally, the Wikipedia title Melaka Straits Mosque is worth exploring. My initial research hasn't found 'Malacca Strait(s) Mosque' in official 20th-century (and prior) sources in Google Books or archival sites. This raises the question of whether the current Wikipedia title might be influencing usage of the mosque's name in other contexts. Perhaps a broader discussion on the mosque's own talk page could explore the historical usage and potential variations.
Cheers!
nMyghet (talk) 23:22, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I simply don't see the shift you talk about. I've already done the searches for books (restricted to the last few years) and I'm unconvinced with your argument. The examples you gave for sites like New York Times are simply not representative - searches in New York Times - 2012, 2018 (mentioned Melaka as Melaka Gateway and local usage, but otherwise refers to the city and state as Malacca), 2020, and 2023. These examples turned up when I searched for Melaka and not Malacca, so there are few mentions of Melaka, and Melaka is not the normal usage in New York Times. Different news sites have different policies with regard to name changes, some publications will change the name according to local usage (e.g. The Economist), some not. Wikipedia has its own policy regarding how articles are titled, and since you are in Wikipedia, that is the only policy that matters. Argue in terms of Wikipedia policies, not Malaysian government's or your preference. A lot of the examples (if not all) you mentioned (Yangon, Myanmar, Mumbai, Thailand) changed their names before Wikipedia came into existence (Thailand changed it's name close to a century ago), and common usage changed. You haven't shown that this is what has happened with Malacca. But if you want to argue for a change, then separate out the usage of Malacca for the strait and for the city/state (the apparently higher usage of Malacca may be lower if you exclude the strait), and argue for inclusion of Malaysian English sources (they predominantly favour Melaka for the city/state).
For specific cases like Malacca Strait Mosque, if you can find enough sources to support the change, then do it for that article, it's not relevant to this article. Hzh (talk) 11:05, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, let me clarify further. I'm not here to argue, so I'm stepping back from what seems to be turning into a debate or personal opinions rather than a collaborative exploration of options from your end.
While still respecting your expertise and not intending to undermine you, I'd like to address a few points.
You mentioned that my evidence is outdated. Here's an example of a name change that occurred after Wikipedia existed, unless you find these links not credible:
-https://www.cnbctv18.com/world/india-to-be-renamed-bharat-here-is-a-list-of-countries-that-changed-their-names-17721511.htm
-https://www.neliti.com/publications/334013/countries-which-changed-their-names-20th-century-and-early-21st-century
-https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-claimed-pennsylvanias-name-will-change-he-loses-the-state-2024-2
While this might not directly correlate with a state change, we can agree that a name change still occurs regardless of whether the old name gained traction in search engines or Wikipedia. None of us, especially myself, advocate for the complete removal of 'Malacca' as the old name of the state. I, as a Malaysian, respect all the states, and some hold more significance to me due to personal allegiance.
You mentioned not seeing a shift despite being presented with a lot of evidence. I won't press the issue or point fingers if you haven't fully reviewed it. My aim is to present data to support my findings, not to critique Wikipedia's trending topics.
Thank you for your response and for investing time in this matter. It's been an interesting discussion. I'm stepping back from this specific thread and won't engage further. I've presented my data thoroughly, ensuring no repetition of counterarguments, but alas, one can only control so much in life. Despite my attempts to collaborate with you, it seems WP:BRD isn't being practiced here. Perhaps I assumed too much about the need for collaboration.
The back-and-forth arguments can indeed become tiresome. I'm not here to win internet points or argue for the sake of arguing. Perhaps this topic should be revisited by our younger generations (Gen Alpha and beyond) in another 50 years, and I hope they'll consider all our points and choose accordingly.
All the best, Hzh. Cheers!" nMyghet (talk) 01:50, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral. Just to share my observation, in a very recent court case last month, a case law report consistently used 'State of Malacca' and 'States of Penang and Malacca' while interpreting the text in the statute, then used 'State of Melaka' in discussing matters.
Personally, moving the name to 'Melaka' has been uncomfortable for me as in this comment, suggested 'Malacca' used in the constitution, always convinces me. Funny enough that I always used 'Melaka' for formality. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 19:41, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
hi OKJ! :) for Melaka and Malacca in constitution, I have already mentioned the same state (constitution call it Johore, but we use Johor instead) in my replies. It's okay to feel uncomfortable with things. I am beginning to take my own steps to inquire people behind journals on their take on the matter, as well as personally use Melaka in my own writings. take care and ty for your kind opinion. <3 nMyghet (talk) 01:58, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Bernama (2017-05-03). "It's "Melaka", not "Malacca", from now on | New Straits Times". NST Online. Retrieved 2024-03-05.
  2. ^ a b Unknown (2 May 1930). Church Societies Meet at Bloomington. The Telegraph-Herald and Times-Journal. p. 5.
  3. ^ a b The Halifax Gazette. The Halifax Gazette.
  4. ^ "BOWREY, Thomas. A dictionary English and Malayo, Malayo and English. To which is added some short grammar rules and directions for the better observation of the propriety and elegancy of this language. London, Sam. Bridge for the author, 1701". www.roots.gov.sg. Retrieved 2024-03-06.
  5. ^ "Portal Rasmi Majlis Bandaraya Melaka Bersejarah (MBMB) - Mayor Message". www.mbmb.gov.my. Retrieved 2024-03-06.
  6. ^ "MPHTJ president to be elevated as new Melaka Mayor". The Star. Retrieved 2024-03-06.
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{{subst:requested move|Melaka|reason=It's no longer deemed as an English name but an official name. Malacca is the old name, and no one is denying that. Rationale and recent discussion:Talk:Malacca#Request for Wikipedia Page Name Change from Malacca to Melaka (2024)}} nMyghet (talk) 11:17, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wrongly formatted, and the rationale is a lie. Hzh (talk) 12:07, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please stop calling people liars when I am doing the exact thing mentioned per guideline and as per your earliest suggestion. If you don't want to contribute, refrain yourself from commenting as this is not a chat page. Thank you. nMyghet (talk) 12:30, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Given that it was discussed that Malacca is still commonly used in English-language media, the claim that it is no longer deemed an English name is therefore a lie. As is the claim that no one is denying what you said. If you want to request a page move, copy and paste {{subst:requested move|Melaka|reason=Melaka is the native name and also the officially recognised English name. Melaka is now commonly used for the state even in English language media, especially in Malaysia, while Malacca is more commonly used for the strait. Article on the state should therefore use Melaka rather than Malacca. Previous move request and discussions are in the talk page.}}. Do not add <nowiki></nowiki> or any other unnecessary wiki markup. Keep the request simple and neutral, anything more you want to add can be given later. Hzh (talk) 13:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually it would be preferable if the RM came with some concise evidence for change relevant to the WP:AT. Shifting English language name change RMs can be a large timesink so it is important (especially if they want to succeed) that they are set up correctly. CMD (talk) 02:00, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to ask for some guidance as I exhausted my effort in this and I still don't think I have enough. I was hoping someone knowledgeable in this to assist with the page move, which was why I only presented the data. But seeing no one is doing it (since it's time consuming for everyone), I was willing to help out any way I can, and it would be injustice for me to not giving my one last try.
I am not being paid and I am doing this out of my pure interest, totally just love the history as history itself, but I also strive for accuracy with latest naming convention, unless one does not believe the sanctity of a state or the country itself. Resorting to personal attacks by a seasoned editor is a confirmed signal for me to stop pursuing and disengage.
We are in Wikipedia to learn, to evolve, not to gatekeep certain information. Time change, so does names. Thanks, CMD and I will now confidently focus on helping out other pages with the same good WP:BRD conduct. nMyghet (talk) 03:27, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Malacca&oldid=1216985605"