Talk:Marina Diamandis/Archive 1

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Notability[edit]

Meets Wikipedia:Notability_(music)criteria 1 with the NME publication (http://www.nme.com/reviews/marina-and-the-diamonds/10439)

Criterion #1 says: "Has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works"; I think more than a single review would be required. (Blogs and Facebook pages, of course, don't qualify as reliable sources.) Accounting4Taste:talk 21:23, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How about The Guardian and BBC? http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/sep/23/marina.and.the.diamonds http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/bigweekend/2009/artists/marinaandthediamonds/ and it would appear that she has signed to Warners http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=447796975&blogId=476421245 http://www.metro.co.uk/metrolife/music/article.html?Marina_is_a_hidden_gem_no_longer&in_article_id=567766&in_page_id=25

Hopefully sufficient for someone to agree on her noteworthiness? Favouritesky (talk) 21:43, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Adding the Guardian and BBC citations to the article would be nearly certain to demonstrate notability to anyone's satisfaction; certainly mine. Thanks for your efforts here. Accounting4Taste:talk 21:58, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

New album deserves own page[edit]

If it's confirmed to be released at the end of April with a lead single out two weeks before it, then surely it's time for the Electra Heart album to get its own article, right? 70.52.77.66 (talk) 10:14, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]


In the Youtube Presents interview, she mentions that she's working on a 3rd album http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hfsj3mIGSw @ 17:33 she mentions that she wrote a song and has some titles in mind

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Requested move 3 November 2018[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus for move. Note that the nominator has been blocked as a WP:SOCK. (closed by non-admin page mover) feminist (talk) 10:34, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Marina and the Diamonds → Marina Diamandis – Though it had been added as gossip by previous users, it's now confirmed that she has changed her professional name to just Marina. See: Billboard: "The single, which features Welsh songstress Marina (formerly Marina and the Diamonds)", Nylon: "Oh, and she's just "Marina" now, no Diamonds". Fader: "a collaboration with Marina Diamandis and Luis Fonsi. The track, Marina's second collab with the Cambridge band, is her first as simply Marina since nixing "the Diamonds." Personal twitter: "Marina" as username, "marinadiamandis" as handle. Not sure the page should be renamed "Marina (singer)", it already uses "Diamandis" for all subsequent uses, probably because her old performing name was strange to use as a singular pronoun. It keeps some continuity with the past to keep it that way. F, root (talk) 02:49, 3 November 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. –Ammarpad (talk) 07:36, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support clear enough In ictu oculi (talk) 09:44, 3 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – It appears as if she is still credited as "Marina and the Diamonds" on Clean Bandit's new single "Baby", which was just released yesterday. I checked iTunes and Spotify and it blatantly says "Marina and the Diamonds". JE98 (talk) 16:15, 3 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • While I appreciate your opinion, on some platforms it is harder than others to change name. On Twitter, where it is completely free to do so, she has changed the name. On Facebook I believe it's impossible to change the name of any page. I don't know about Spotify. F, root (talk) 17:52, 3 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
      • @F, root: Completely understood, but being as the single came out yesterday credited as "Marina and the Diamonds", yet the music video says just "Marina", I am still opposing the move. However, I would support either moving it to "Marina (singer)" or keeping the page where it is until she releases solo tracks. That way we will know what is going on for sure. JE98 (talk) 00:30, 4 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Marina has explicitly stated that she dropped "and the Diamonds" from her stage name AgWoolridge (talk) 02:17, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Seems rather premature, the few sources linked above are all from the last few days and only mention this very briefly. It doesn't add up to much and I don't see any explicit statement from Marina herself. I would leave it for now and see how this plays out, I think a move ought to be based on something more substantial. PC78 (talk) 01:00, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 3 December 2018[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move Marina and the Diamonds, but there is a consensus to move Marina (singer) as proposed below. Given that there's been 2 RMs in 2 months on the first move, it'a probably a good idea to wait a while to see how sources handle the name change that led to the RMs before proposing a new RM on this matter. (non-admin closure) Iffy★Chat -- 09:20, 17 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]


– She's obviously not known by her full name either, but the last thing I want is for a never-ending series of move requests (a la Cheryl and Sia). Unreal7 (talk) 13:20, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strongly support 2nd per nom (the Polish one is now not the only singer monomously known as Marina), and neutral on 1st move (not sure yet on that one). Paintspot Infez (talk) 16:18, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with Paintspot Infez. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:48, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose first move since I still don't see what this is based on. Do we have any good sources for a name change? As far as I can tell, the only significant change is Marina's display name on Twitter. She's still "Marina and the Diamonds" on YouTube and Facebook, and her official website is still marinaandthediamonds.com. Best wait to see if she starts releasing solo material as just "Marina", IMHO. No firm opinion on the second move. PC78 (talk) 19:06, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly support 2nd per nom and weak support for 1st move In ictu oculi (talk) 10:29, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose 1st move: She is primarily known as "Marina and the Diamonds", and she still does perform under that name as is seen here. If anything I would sooner support changing it to her birth name than just "Marina". { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 21:10, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • Suggestion for 2nd move: I would also oppose renaming Marina (singer) to "Marina (Polish singer)", and instead believe it should be renamed to her full name "Marina Łuczenko-Szczęsna" like it is on the Polish article, which can be assumed is more knowledgable on the subject. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 23:46, 5 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly support 2nd move - there are multiple singers who go by "Marina"; weakly support 1st move 𝒶𝓎𝒶𝓃𝓮_𝓂💬 • ✏ 08:41, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose first move, indifferent to second move – moving the article when only one song has been released by Diamandis as "Marina" (with some outlets even still crediting her as "Marina and the Diamonds" on the new song) is grossly premature. WikiRedactor (talk) 02:10, 8 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Completely unnecessary. The Welsh singer is already at the appropriate title, and it doesn't matter how many singers there are called Marina when we only have an article on one of them that is primarily known simply as Marina. The hatnote covers any possible confusion between these two. --Michig (talk) 07:00, 8 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support moving Marina and the Diamonds to Marina Diamandis and Marina (singer) to Marina (Polish singer) - since the Welsh Marina doesn't base her brand around being Welsh and is most popular in UK, that does not work as disambiguation. Just use the surname there. The Polish one has only ever charted in one country so it works. They're also both known as simply "Marina" now, and since Diamandis is more notable, its unfair to keep the Polish one at "Marina (singer)".--NØ 16:06, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support 2nd move, there are many musicians who go by the name 'Marina' mononymously. Oppose 1st move, as of current she is still known best by Marina and the Diamonds, although I would support moving to her birth name Marina Diamandis. QUIRKYPANDA77 (hey!) 11:08, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 8 February 2019[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page to any particular title at this time, per the discussion below. Please feel free to revisit this in the future if justified by the emergence of further evidence under WP:NAMECHANGES, but given the number of recent move proposals it may be better to wait a bit before doing so. Dekimasuよ! 21:44, 16 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Marina and the Diamonds → Marina Diamandis – With the release of her newest single, we now have multiple sources confirming that she is now performing under the name Marina (styled MARINA on her social media pages and elsewhere); see the November move request for some sources. Opposition at the time surrounded her being credited as "Marina and the Diamonds" on platforms such as Spotify; this has now been updated. Additionally, the intervening months have made it clear that this is not just a brief change. I would also suggest redirecting Marina (singer) to this page, with a disambiguating hatnote linking to the other two mononymous Marinas. Smith(talk) 11:37, 8 February 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. SITH (talk) 21:35, 16 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It occurs to me that everybody who previously weighed in on this matter might want to again - @In ictu oculi: @JE98: @AgWoolridge: @Jjj1238: @Paintspot: @Ayane m: @WikiRedactor: @Michig: @MaranoFan: Smith(talk)
  • I would just keep the Marina (singer) pointing at the DAB page since it previously hosted the Polish singer, see User:Andrewa/Incoming links. Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:01, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Crouch, Swale: How do you feel about the proposition to move the page, ignoring the question of the redirect? Smith(talk)
      • I have no strong opinion either way but I'd note that the current title seems to be more common in a simple Google search. Crouch, Swale (talk) 10:25, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. With better sources available for the name change and new solo material released today, the issues I raised previously have now been resolved. There's an argument for Marina (Welsh singer) but I think this is the better option. Neutral on redirecting Marina (singer). PC78 (talk) 15:55, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Most known as "Marina and the Diamonds", with three studio albums released under that stage name from 2007 to 2018. There's only been two releases under her new stage name Marina. I would say let's wait and not rush a change to the article's title. Nice4What (talk) 21:33, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Nice4What: I don't agree that she is most known as that anymore, as I cannot find a single recent article that refers to her by that name, and as per WP:NAMECHANGES, "we give extra weight to reliable sources written after the name change is announced. If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match." Smith(talk)
  • Support - With the release of new material under this name and sources referring to her as simply 'Marina', I think it is best the page is moved to Marina Diamandis. However, I think it is fine having Marina (singer) redirect to the dab page, as there are a handful of singers under that name - Diamandis herself, Marina (Polish singer), Marina (Japanese singer), etc. QUIRKYPANDA77 (hey!) 16:46, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. WP:NAMECHANGES clearly settles this. If there are enough reliable sources recognising her by that name, then it should be changed. At least from what I'm reading, the majority of articles now cover her by that name with quite a few notable sources even covering her actual name change. Crouch, Swale's idea to move the contents to Marina (singer) and keep this as a redirect seems reasonable to me. -throast 21:49, 9 February 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Throast (talk • contribs)
  • Oppose.
    1. "Marina (singer)" is both unrecognizable and ambiguous.
    2. "Marina (Welsh singer)" (or "Marina (British singer)") is even worse. This title is equally unrecognizable, while the disambiguating phrase is longer than her name, which doesn't look good at all.
    3. "Marina Diamandis" is better than the previous two options, but what's the point in changing "and the Diamonds" with "Diamandis"? Neither is her current stage name. And just think, which one is more recognizable if she released three studio albums under the name "Marina and the Diamonds" and none under the name Marina Diamandis? --Moscow Connection (talk) 13:50, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • I would argue that this is not about recognizability, but rather about accuracy and currency. If she is covered under her new name, which happens to be just Marina, and there are enough reliable sources acknowledging that name, then WP:NAMECHANGES applies. -throast (talk) 17:33, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • I have to agree with @Moscow Connection, "Marina Diamandis" is the best choice if a change were to occur, but why not keep "Marina and the Diamonds" if that's what she's most recognized as? We should at least wait, I know extra weight is added to new sources but they've been used to describe just one single. Let's wait for the new album to continue to rollout. Nice4What (talk) 21:54, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • @Nice4What: In fact, she's been referred to as Marina for two singles now - the latest, and also the collaboration with Clean Bandit. She's referred to as Marina in articles about that song and in all its listings on music services. I don't understand what you're citing to show that "Marina and the Diamonds" is what she is still being referred to as; as per WP:CBALL, it's not up to us to predict how/when one name overtakes the other in popular usage, but to reflect what's being said in high quality sources, all of which are referring to her as "Marina". Smith(talk)
      • The proposal is to move the article to "Marina Diamandis", which isn't her current stage name. So WP:NAMECHANGES doesn't apply.
        What would apply is WP:If you change your stage name one time too many, we'll move your article to your real name and forget about it. --Moscow Connection (talk) 09:09, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support NAMECHANGES applies. feminist (talk) 14:24, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support She is presently known primarily by the Marina and the Diamonds name but will now be known as MARINA. Looking to the future, her real name would be most appropriate as this article is about a singular person who has gone by two monikers in her career thus far. The other options of Marina (singer) and Marina (Welsh singer) are bad since they put an emphasis on the new truncated name, as to say the old name, which she has built a reputation upon for the first decade of her career, is to be forgotten, which it's not. Marina Diamandis is a more inclusive article title, representing the artist herself. Koyyo (talk) 07:20, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I think there is a good argument for using the name she is best known by (Marina and the Diamonds), and I also see the argument for using simply 'Marina' now that she is apparently using that (although currently the sum total of her solo output under that name is one downloadable song), but this proposal is to use neither of those. If we feel that 'Marina' is the correct thing to use according to our guidelines, we should go for that, with appropriate disambiguation if needed. If that would be too clunky, let's just stick with what we have now for the time being. --Michig (talk) 17:47, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Once, again, I encourage you to read WP:NAMECHANGES. It's not about personal opinion whether or not a name change is suitable but about a significant number of reliable sources adapting her new name, which arguably is the case. It's that simple. What we should now discuss is which variation of her new name is best suited for Wikipedia. -throast (talk) 20:25, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • That will be just 'Marina' then, no? So not what is being proposed here. --Michig (talk) 20:37, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Marina Diamandis seems to be the most reasonable solution, as both Marina (Welsh singer) and Marina and the Diamonds have their fair share of issues. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 23:39, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose move to Marina Diamandis per (that's not her) WP:COMMONNAME. Her COMMONNAME is Marina (or MARINA if you will). So we should use that, but we can't, so we need to disambiguate. One possibility is Marina Diamandis per WP:NATURAL, except it's unclear how natural that is. Is she really well known with that name? It doesn't seem so. The other possibility is Marina (Welsh singer). Others have said this option has issues, but I don't see anyone identify what they are. The main objection in the previous RM was that "Marina" was not established as her common name. We're past that now, apparently. So what's wrong with Marina (Welsh singer)? I'm willing to change my mind with evidence that she's commonly and widely known as Marina Diamandis, which is the relevant criteria from WP:NATURAL. But at this point I don't see basis for Marina Diamandis, but I do see basis for Marina (Welsh singer). (By the way, some obscure topic is at MARINA and that probably needs to be addressed too.) --В²C ☎ 01:22, 16 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I think "Marina (Welsh singer)" is the worst possible option cause it isn't widely known that she is Welsh. Therefore this disambiguation term won't disambiguate anything for the vast majority of Wikipedia readers. If it were decided to move the article to "Marina [disambiguation term]", the best possible disambiguation term would be her last name. --Moscow Connection (talk) 04:35, 16 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Either we refer to her as "Marina and the Diamonds" or "Marina (Welsh singer)", her full name should not be an article name of discussion. JE98 (talk) 02:52, 16 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Wow, you said nothing to back that notion. Koyyo (talk) 05:42, 16 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Relisting note: a relist is beneficial in this case, despite there having been two previous requested moves in the past three months, because two comments (or !votes) have been made in the past day, so more input may occur, potentially enabling the closer of this requested move to settle it as something other than no consensus. SITH (talk) 21:35, 16 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Requested move 10 May 2019[edit]

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Moved to Marina Diamandis. bd2412 T 15:20, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Marina and the Diamonds → ? – Per WP:NAMECHANGES. Since the last discussion three months ago she has released several singles, an album, and is now on tour, all under her new mononymous name "Marina". Her name change is well documented in the media ([1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6]), and coverage of the album and tour is under her new name ([7], [8], [9], [10], [11]). Her old stage name is now consigned to the past.

Options are Marina Diamandis (my preferred choice as it's the cleanest, least messy title), Marina (Welsh singer) or Marina (British singer), though I note Marina (singer) is also redirecting here at the moment. PC78 (talk) 23:52, 10 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Due to the presence of Marina (Japanese singer) and Marina (Polish singer), I am revising my vote to Support for Marina (British singer) since she is known primarily or entirely as an English-language, rather than as a Welsh-language singer. However, if consensus prefers Marina (Welsh singer) [other singers who are natives of Wales may also sing primarily in English], I would likewise support that form. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 04:59, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Examples of "Welsh singer" used as disambiguation include Emma (Welsh singer) and Bessie Jones (Welsh singer), also Tim Wright (Welsh musician), Jack Jones (Welsh musician) and Michael Jones (Welsh-French musician). PC78 (talk) 10:08, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have changed Marina (singer) back to Marina (given name)#Arts which was changed in February. As before I oppose to moving to "Marina (singer)" per my comments in the last RM but I don't think that's being proposed here and Roman Spinner has withdrawn that choice. Crouch, Swale (talk) 10:11, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Numerous references can also be found for the names Madonna Ciccone or Cher Bono, but the point remains that if a performer with a distinct and established mononymous stage name is not marketed under her full given name–surname form and does not release albums under such form, then it should not be proposed as that performer's WP:NATURALDIS. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:02, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sure you can find plenty of references, but are Madonna and Cher routinely referred to by their full names? No, and you can find other counter-examples besides Tiffany Darwish (Bae Suzy, off the top of my head). You have to judge each case on it's own merits. PC78 (talk) 10:32, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If it can be established that concert venues have been publicizing upcoming performances by "Marina Diamandis" or record album companies have been printing covers with that name, then its use would be substantiated. However, the sole names in such uses have been "Marina and the Diamonds" and, subsequently, simply "Marina". Her appearances are being advertised as "Marina Love + Fear Tour". —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 14:44, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
My point is that her surname is both well-known and commonly used in the media, therefore I believe it's use here is entirely justifiable. Clearly you disagree and that's fine. :) Ultimately I don't mind much where this article ends up, I just feel that it really ought to be moved somewhere from the present title. PC78 (talk) 19:08, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I definitely agree that the main header should be moved and since we both mentioned Marina (Welsh singer) as our second option, I am advancing it to my first choice, thus perhaps moving to a closer consensus for us and future participants. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 06:01, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Marina Diamandis, a reasonably common title (e.g. Twitter handle @MarinaDiamandis) and still somewhat recognizable to those only knowing her old name Marina and the Diamonds. feminist (talk) 01:48, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Marina Diamandis, her last name is very well-known among the fanbase, simply because it is very memorable and similar to the word "Diamonds", which was included in her previous stage name. Also, it would be really irresponsible to call her as a British singer, Welsh singer, or Greek singer, because of her being not only Greek-Welsh -- and mentioning it several times -- but also her cosmopolitan viewpoints. She states on Twitter she lives on Earth, she's moved now to LA from London, was conceived in Japan, and so on. Citing her nationality in the article name seems just unfair. Ciastkoo (talk) 10:39, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Change article title to Marina Diamandis or Marina (Singer).[edit]

I think the article name needs to be changed to Marina Diamandis or Marina (Singer) and I would like to make the change myself. I just can't find the option. I don't think her former stage name should be used as the article title. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:FB80:F10:A8E1:A5EA:65BE:8DFE (talk) 03:56, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox Photo[edit]

Can someone find a more recent photo of Marina that won't get deleted by copyright, honestly the current photo is so crusty and ugly it's just painful to look at. 92.12.1.44 (talk) 23:46, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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