Talk:Michael Taylor (British killer)

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On 5 June 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from Michael Taylor (murderer) to Murder of Christine Taylor. The result of the discussion was moved.

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Title[edit]

"Michael Taylor (demoniac)" is a singularly stupid name for an article. It suggests that Wikipedia accepts the claim that he was possessed by demons as true. But I don't know what would be be the right name. Michael Taylor (murderer)? --Hob Gadling (talk) 06:13, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Murderer or criminal (appears to have been imprisoned for two different reasons) would indeed be better, —Paleo Neonate – 07:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Murderer" would be a wholly inappropriate thing to call this man, as he was acquitted of that crime. His first crime was in 2005. What about "psychiatric patient"? 2600:8800:1880:68:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26 (talk) 16:11, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have tagged this article with {{POV}} as it has been moved to an inappropriate title that any sane person would object to, given the subject's clear and unambiguous acquittal. This is a violation of WP:BLP. 2600:8800:1880:68:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26 (talk) 18:54, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please do read WP:NPOV and WP:MOS. Many discussions have established a widespread WP:CONSENSUS that a conviction is not necessary to use a label such as murderer. In this case, the objection is highly overstated. Taylor was not acquitted because a jury found he did not murder his wife. He was acquitted because the courts found that he was not fully responsible for his actions. It was never disputed that eh did the actions he was accused of. This is an inappropriate use of the POV tag. Please do not revert without establishing a consensus. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:12, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 5 June 2021[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Michael Taylor (killer). This seems one case of WP:NOGOODOPTIONS. I chose Michael Taylor (killer) because the other option with some support Michael Taylor (born 1944) is ambiguous. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 16:01, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Taylor (murderer) → Murder of Christine Taylor – Per WP:BLP1E, a biography of Michael is inappropriate, as he is only known for one event. The primary and only possible article topic is his killing of his wife, Christine. 2600:8800:1880:68:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26 (talk) 19:20, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is really, really useless pedantry and needless WP:BURO. If you really feel so strongly about not using the label title "...(murderer)", will you accept "...(killer)", at least? If yes, then we can close this and move on. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:59, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Michael Taylor (killer). Sadly, the source coverage in this case seems to focus more on the killer than the victim, so "Killing of Christine Taylor" might not be very recognizable. He was found not guilty of murder, so "killer" is better than "murderer". —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 20:08, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

~~Move to Osset murder or Osset murder case~~. This term is already bolded in the lede (although there's currently no redirect), and avoids the issues with "murderer" (as Taylor was acquitted) and "killer" (which seems over-dramatic). Tevildo (talk) 12:27, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That is inconsistent. Taylor did it, so if he is not a murderer, it is not a murder. --Hob Gadling (talk) 15:56, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

How about Michael Taylor (criminal)? It's factually accurate (as Taylor was convicted of the indecent assault) and avoids unencyclopedic language. Tevildo (talk) 20:29, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note to closing admin: the status quo ante for this page is Michael Taylor (demoniac). I wouldn't support moving back to that title, but clear consensus was not explicitly established for "murderer". Tevildo (talk) 18:38, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is a tough one, and I'm not seeing too many comparables. "Criminal" is one possibility; it's used, for example, for John Gilligan (criminal). The problem is that the acquittal is the notable part of the biography, not the subsequent unrelated convictions. Another approach is seen at Larry Davis (born 1966), moved from Larry Davis (New York criminal) in 2019. At the expense of being very vague, the title does not make any association to any crime.

Ultimately, I believe that OP is correct that this article is first and foremost about the murder; therefore, Support move to Murder of Christine Taylor. 162 etc. (talk) 19:19, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support the move to Michael Taylor (born 1944), per the suggestion of User:Tevildo. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 20:20, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- I wish I had suggested it (credit is due to 162 etc.), but I'll still support Michael Taylor (born 1944). Tevildo (talk) 21:03, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I still support Michael Taylor (killer). I proposed this title on the WP:FTN. It has two advantages. First, it solves the issue of the WP:FRINGE term "demoniac". Second, I choose the word "killer" over "murderer" since he was found not guilty by reason on insanity. I oppose the suggest of Michael Taylor (born 1944) as I doubt our average reader knows the subject's birth year. That said, I don't want to spend too much time debating it as I really don't care too much. Those are my 2 cents. Good luck to the closing admin A Quest For Knowledge (talk)
Oppose. Only found not guilt of murder due to insanity. Merely a technicality under English law. Support move to Michael Taylor (British murderer) due to the existemce of Michael Taylor (prisoner); that article is also in dire need of renaming. Michael Taylor (born 1944) is an utterly terrible idea. How many Michael Taylors do you think were born in 1944?! It's not exactly an uncommon name. We even have another one here. So this is no disambiguation whatsoever. There has to be some sort of descriptor for a reader to know who's being referred to. Michael Taylor (British killer) would be preferable if "murderer" is considered to be inappropriate. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:12, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.