Talk:Natural (music)

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lacks discussing the function of natural signs in modern -atonal- music

The sentence "The scale of C major is sometimes regarded as the central, natural or basic major scale because all of its notes are natural notes, whereas every other major scale has at least one sharp or flat in it." seems a bit misleading in the way that it is worded. Particularly, the part that says "every other major scale has at least one sharp or flat in it.". This is only true if we are talking about the key of C specifically. What makes that key special? Nothing does, except in the mode of Ionian ("the major scale"). Lydian is a major scale which consists of only natural notes when played in the key of F. Mixolydian is a major scale which consists of only natural notes when played in the key of G. Why so much focus on Ionian in the key of C while no mention at all of the other major scales in their respective all-natural keys?

Major scale, unqualified, standardly means the Ionian mode. There's not terribly much music from the common practice period in Lydian or Mixolydian, anyway. Double sharp (talk) 03:11, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

But it makes the claim that every other major scale has at least one sharp or flat in it. Perhaps this should be clarified by rewording that you mean only Ionian. Might I suggest "Every other key of the major scale" instead of "every other major scale". As it is right now, I consider it to be ambiguous at best.

As I already said, standardly major scale simply means Ionian. When modes are the main subject, then indeed sometimes Lydian and Mixolydian are also termed major by analogy only, but I bet you will have no difficulty finding cases all over the place (books, journals, websites, you name it) where "major scale" simply means Ionian. So there is nothing wrong with the statement, unless you impose upon it an unnatural interpretation. Double sharp (talk) 04:54, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Except you didn't just say "major scale". You said "every other major scale". That's quite different. Why are you so resistant to clarifying that you are only talking about other keys of "the major scale"?

Recent bad edits[edit]

A single editor keeps re-inserting a bunch of edits. No edit summaries, and the content is ungrammatical, unsourced, un-encyclopedic, and, in some cases, inaccurate. I've reverted them twice but I'll leave it to someone else to sort this out. I have no interest in butting heads over this. - Special-T (talk) 13:07, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If the flats or sharps of the key signature change to double flats or double sharps[edit]

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If the flats or sharps of the key signature change to double flats or double sharps when the music changes keys, there is need to write naturals on those notes. Conversely, when double flats/double sharps are cancelled, the naturals would be written in the relevant notes by default. In the music notation program Lilypond, the naturals are written by default as shown in the picture below.

${ \omit Score.TimeSignature { \key aes \major s8^"" \bar "||" \key fes \major s^"" }}$

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Do they want like below instead of above? (Ex. When changing A flat major to F flat major)

${ \omit Score.TimeSignature \omit Score.KeyCancellation { \key aes \major s16 ^\markup "" \bar "||" \set Staff.keyAlterations = #`((6 . ,NATURAL)(2 . ,FLAT)(5 . ,FLAT)(1 . ,FLAT)(4 . ,FLAT)(0 . ,FLAT)(3 . ,FLAT)(6 . ,DOUBLE-FLAT)) s16 ^\markup ""}}$

Then, the question arises whether a natural sign is necessary when changing from flat to double flat.

In particular, in addition, have you ever seen the notation (related to natural sign) like below that's written as a temporary accidental on the note?

${ \omit Score.TimeSignature \relative c'' { bes2 \tweak Accidental.stencil #ly:text-interface::print \tweak Accidental.text \markup { \concat { \natural \doubleflat }}beses2 \bar "||" bis2 \tweak Accidental.stencil #ly:text-interface::print \tweak Accidental.text \markup { \concat { \natural \doublesharp }}bisis2} }$

분홍분홍 토야 (talk) 01:23, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]