Talk:Nigga

Chris Rock reference

As hilarious as it was to read that Chris Rock differentiates between niggas and black people by saying niggas are "low expectation having motherfuckers," I think this a low quality reference that does not accurately describe what Chris Rock was doing in that comedy routine. I'm not sure the proper way to word it which is why I didn't edit the article, but Chris Rock was trying to say that niggas are delinquent, low brow unintelligent people. Some parts can be considered extremely offensive when he says stuff such as "Put your money in your books coz niggas don't read!" But in reality I think the closest comparison to what he's saying separating niggas from black people in that skit is the same as the comparison of white trash to other white people. Many of the things Chris Rock said about niggas can be applied to people referred to as "white trash" in regards to white people.

In a way Chris Rock is legitimizing the use of the word nigga as being the same as the N-word but it having specific meaning and context as a label for people who ostensibly black people of higher stature look down upon due to the perceived notion that they make black people look bad.

This can be seen as plausible in black people who use AAVE describing black people who speak in proper English or speak in intellectual ways as "acting white," implying that you have to act low brow and "commoner" in order to be black, which is self-defeating.

I invite someone else to look at what I just wrote and edit the article appropriately, as I don't have the time nor the ability to. I foresee many might see what I wrote above as offensive, and I don't know how to make it not such. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.198.55.252 (talk) 14:55, July 20, 2022 (UTC)

The n word

It means your cool: that is what that word means...the n word with the "a" at the end. The n word with the R at the end means your a slave. Capspiderum (talk) 23:11, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

@Capspiderum that's not at all what that means this isn't urban dictionary this is Wikipedia PlasmaticGrain (talk) 06:18, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Author of the article

This was definitely written by a white person lol Tzauarner (talk) 13:52, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

RIGHT?! Grokante (talk) 14:00, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Please consider reviewing the article history and contributing improvements to the article where you see fit. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 21:46, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Needs to be treated with parity

"Nigga" and "Faggot" should be treated with parity.

Requests: - Change title of the article from "Nigga" to "Nigga (slang) - Remove the word "vulgar" in the first line of the articleGrokante (talk) 13:59, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

A parenthetical qualifier is not required in the title as it is not ambiguous, unlike Faggot which is ambiguous; see WP:DAB. Note the title is italic, indicating that it is a word-as-a-word; see WP:ITALICTITLE and MOS:WAW. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 21:42, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Designation for men

The term "nigga" is used for black men and some mannish women. Thousands of hip-hop songs make this clear. For example, the "Pressurelicious" song has lyrics saying, "Niggas admire the way that I'm built, might let him spank it..." 2601:C4:C300:A210:49AB:812C:8413:BF36 (talk) 19:50, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Without reliable sources discussing the claim; that is original research, which has no place in this encyclopedia. It should also be noted that "him" appears to reference the admirer, not the admired, thus fails to serve as an example of the claim. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 02:06, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

It's a basic definition. For example, Larry Wilmore would call the Barack Obama "my nigga" https://time.com/4316322/larry-wilmore-obama-n-word/ while Wilmore wouldn't call (female) Michelle Obama "nigga". Here is an academic article that repeats what every American speaker is aware of: this word is "(usually from a male to or about a male") https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4954799/ I have seen the label applied to masculine women, but this is not common. In rap song, males are called "niggas" while females are called "bitches."--2601:C4:C300:A210:49AB:812C:8413:BF36 (talk) 02:54, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

I see now that you are pointing out that the subjects are usually those considered male or mannish and that the article currently does not make this clear; correct? This may be a fair point. I would suggest beginning to tackle this by checking for gender references in the sources already used; the article may already be armed with the information required to correct it, if a correction is apt. It is entirely possible that this article has suffered the effects of androcentrism (or perhaps a more suitable descriptor for the phenomenon) and the, perhaps common, understanding that nigga is a primarily male oriented term (like bro or dude) has been incorrectly overlooked. I'll certainly take a look myself later (I was minutes away for going to sleep and just checking my watchlist for possible vandalism) but feel free to do the work yourself if you feel you can. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 06:23, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Ah, yes, protected page ... sorry; sleepy. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 06:27, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

I haven't forgotten this and will get around to it if no one else picks up the challenge. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 16:51, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Please add ..

In 2001, "Hip-Hop Minister", and former Nation of Islam Minister, Conrad Tillard feuded with Def Jam founder Russell Simmons, saying Simmons stoked violence by allowing the common use of words such as "nigga" in rap lyrics.[I just shortened it a bit -12 6] 2603:7000:2143:8500:79D7:90DB:F71F:1BD5 (talk) 23:23, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Had a quick look (responding to a legit edit request requires due diligence) and frankly I can't make head nor tail of the NYPress ref (would need more time to evaluate than I have right now), can't read the NYTimes ref because it requires a subscription, and haven't read the book so am missing context. I assume you'd like this tidbit to go in "Cultural influence"? Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 00:48, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, Cultural influences seems the apt section, as it is where there is the greatest discussion of the phrase in rap/hip hop. The Encyclopedia of Rap and Hip-hop Culture at page 356 says "Muhammad (who is now a Christian minister known by his birth name, Conrad Tillard) accused Simmons of condoning violence by refusing to curtail the frequent use of terms such as “ nigga ” and “ bitch ” in rap lyrics." Though not formerly cited - and it refers to a different spelling - supportive of this disagreement having taken place is the reference here at p. 229 in R&B, Rhythm and Business; The Political Economy of Black Music (2002). The NYT ref and NYPress refs can be dispensed with, inasmuch as they speak of the feud between the two but not of the word itself.2603:7000:2143:8500:2446:8158:55F9:494B (talk) 04:09, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the extra info. I added an |archive-url= to the NYTimes ref as it bypassess the subscription (handy side effect of the good practice). I went looking for more context and discovered that Tillard's article has recently been dramatically altered and have asked on the talk page if any conflict of interest should be declared. I'm going to ask the same thing here and now; Any conflicts of interest need declaring? Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 12:01, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

No conflicts of interest exist - I don't use the word or know the people involved or belong to the Nation or churches mentioned .. I sometimes listen to the music. And I edit what interests me; if needed be and if interested (these are interesting), extensively. 2603:7000:2143:8500:8523:581D:6E5C:E100 (talk) 18:46, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Good to hear; makes life simpler :) I've started my process of understanding the subject and will make the edit once I'm confident. Peter Noel for The Village Voice provided a clear statement of the issue with context. Gimme time; not long awake. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 14:48, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

The Village Voice article is a good source that could more or less carry this on its own, IMO. Cheers --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 14:54, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Cheers. Currently absorbing a C-Span Hip-Hop Summit 2001 talk while establishing chronological context. I feel like this article from MTV about KRS-One "condemning negative rap imagery at Hip-Hop Summit" might also help. So many tabs open right now, I'm disproving the meme that Chrome is a resource hog ;) Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 16:02, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Although the word feud is indeed bandied about, the situation doesn't appear as simple as originally suggested and as such I will prefer to add something more balanced – not a verbatim addition of the requested edit; I hope this is agreeable. Another perspective to add to the pot: NY Post, May 8, 2001 (please forgive the lazy linking). I need to go out for a few hours, but will get stuck back in later. Of course anyone else can pick it up in the meantime; it takes a village :) Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 17:34, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Requesting feedback re reliability of a potential source: how do we feel about hiphopandpolitics.com as the source of Hip Hop History: Remembering the Historic 2001 Hip Hop Summit & Farrakhan’s Incredible Speech? Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 18:00, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

 Done. Please review .. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 04:01, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

References

Fiction

Given that The Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man is a work of fiction, I'm not sure that its text can properly be referred to - as is the case now in the article, referring to a fictional conversation in the book -- documenting the use of the word within the black community. I do understand that it reflects (rather than documents) the use of the word in fiction, at the time it was written. Lmk if you see this differently. 2603:7000:2143:8500:2992:7305:2C19:C33E (talk) 05:15, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Although I can see your point, I can't think how the statement would require fixing; it's not itself inaccurate or misleading, and we shouldn't assume the reader assumes the book is anything other than what it is. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to qualify "the 1912 book>novel". Perhaps a non-fictional document of usage from that era or earlier is ideal to lend perspective to the usage as claimed in the fictional work. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 14:58, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

That would help. Since it is presented as an autobiography, the presumption would IMHO naturally otherwise be that is it non-fiction. The importance is that fiction need not reflect actual usage. Just as an Asimov science fiction book in 1980 would not reflect actual interplanet voyages of that year--2603:7000:2143:8500:79D2:6917:914C:97A2 (talk) 18:23, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

I've switched out book for novel but am having trouble concentrating right now so I'm hands off until I'm firing on more cylinders. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 20:08, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Earliest usages

I'm not sure what usage is earliest, but here is a usage in an 1800 play. https://www.google.com/books/edition/Aunt_Dinah_s_Pledge/n26eo6fmhpQC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Nigga&pg=PA10&printsec=frontcover

And here is a usage in a song in 1840: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Lucy_Neale_s_Nigga_Warbler/jnhWAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Nigga&printsec=frontcover It seems there were many songs that used it.

And here is usage in an 1853 book. https://www.google.com/books/edition/New_York/DOPeqZQP2D8C?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Nigga&pg=PA117&printsec=frontcover 2603:7000:2143:8500:79D2:6917:914C:97A2 (talk) 18:48, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 July 2023

2607:FB91:481:956B:41DF:7D85:DA87:8E82 (talk) 17:59, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Nigga is not like saying nigger in the hip hop community it’s like saying bro or dude

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. And yes, a reliable source will be required. Xan747 (talk) 18:06, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Nigga definition by those who use the word

Because I don’t know where you are from or where you’ve been but the word nigga is derived from the word Nigger that part is true. Black folks took a bad thing and made it to a good thing because Black people are very innovative like that. And racist white people just cant deal with it. But there’s not many left. So it’s time to let truth rise to the top.

i’ve witnessed clicks you know groups of like minded. For instance geeks, nerds, jocks , lesbians, etc I have witnessed use of the word Nigga.but are afraid to say around Black people. Walk out into the world as ask someone what the definition is but answer for them with tge following

nigga means someone close to me good friend group of friends other groups of males(of any color even a mixture or races together) are niggas it’s similar to words like bro dude homie niggy and when used by a male it’s torwards other males. Used by females to males and females I have not heard but very few try to say different but when everyone also is like yeah I agree and jump onboard quick usually the ones who really didn’t understand the word now realize oh yeah I guess so.

if your white and some one say yo nigga you need to move.and the white person reaponds “I ain’t black” might have some racism in them or something they need to figure out. If your not totally with me then go ahead please go out and use it in a derogative manner. You can’t it don’t work it doesn’t sound right and you will more then likely confuse people cuz they won’t understand what your trying to say. Sure the tone of voice shows the ugliness of what is being said but the words don’t sync up. You’ll probably get laughed at cuz you sound ridiculous: sure there people who didn’t really understand the word as it evolved into our language and didn’t use it correctly but in ways they thought it meant. Don’t use it like that anymore cuz they can see by everyone around them the proper use of the word.

right here is where change begins I’ve been writing Webster racist company about this over 15 years denied each time. Remember if you didn’t know nigger defined is a low down dirty person. End definition now go look it don’t have that as the A definition the B a slang word for American black people oh yeah the word doesn’t include blacks from other place not as far as non American blacks are concerned they think it’s funny and thers no way you could say it even drag out the eerrrr they just won’t accept that has anything to do with them!! But thats not todays definition it’s just nigger definition A a black person i know people who have only known this definition this is sad and not good for growth among races. So are we gonna accept this change made that is dark and ugly and false or are we in a different place the future we’re we recognize facts as facts now not just cuz 8 out of 10 white guys said so.

and that’s real nigga talk

dont talk about change, be the change! DaedalVirtuoso (talk) 11:49, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

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