Talk:Robert Schuller

A news item involving Robert Schuller was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 4 April 2015.

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Positivity[edit]

I think this is a short, yet fairly accurate bio as it stands. One point where I see room for revision lies in this passage:

"Strongly influenced by his mentor, Norman Vincent Peale, Schuller has focused in his teaching on the positive aspects of Christianity. Rather than concentrating on condemning people for sin, he encourages Christians (and non-Christians) to achieve great things through God, uplifting theology and positive thinking. "

I think this article does not establish any relationship between the term "positive aspects of Christianity" and the exposition of such aspects in the following sentence "to achieve great things through God, uplifting theology and positive thinking." (

I think these ideas sound more like pop psychology rather than any traditional Christian doctrine I have heard of. I'd like to see this area expounded on, as well as the concept of "positive thinking." I'm not sure I am the one to go about this however, not being an expert in either Christian theology or pop psychology. Is anyone interested in working on these points? MissGarbo 12:51, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Criticisms section[edit]

"Criticisms" section is not sourced. "Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons" policy provides that the views of critics should be sourced to reliable secondary sources.

The need for sources is particularly important in light of the use of charged words like "heretical" and personal opinions like "overemphasizes grace to the neglect of holiness," or "His son and successor, Robert A. Schuller, has arguably already garnered even more criticism than his father has in his entire ministry."

And why would it necessarily have been "controversial" for Schuller to have "stated that he did not consider himself a Christian, merely 'a follower of Christ.'"

I am not taking a position one way or another on the opinions expressed in the "Criticisms" section. Rather, I am pointing out that the section in its current form does not comport with Wikipedia policy. Thus, it should either be appropriately revised or deleted. 75.31.98.66 23:25, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

After improving the Criticism section a bit, I removed it per WP:BLP as it was contentious and completely unsourced (like the rest of the article). It will need good sources and good due weight arguments before it can be allowed back in. (diff) Avb 18:54, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

PS I've just read the above comments and agree with just about everything written here by MissGarbo and 75.31.98.66. Avb 20:52, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've tried to find acceptable third-party sources to flesh out a criticism section but found only non-RS partisan material that looks like minority criticism to me; if Schuller's views are as heretic (relative to reformed Christendom) as reported there, they would have had him defrocked in no time.

While looking for critical material, I came across this informative article that seems reliable to me: http://www.ocmetro.com/archives/ocmetro_2004/metro120904/cover120904.html Avb 20:52, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, thanks for your changes, I like them. What about the newly placed link? I hesitated from putting it because it somehow disturbs the other link's title Letting in the light. But the essays are worth reading, do you agree? Maybe you can put it somewhere else.

Austerlitz -- 88.72.31.98 10:00, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Children[edit]

Here it is said that Schuller and his wife have got five children. In the source I have cited only three children are mentioned. Maybe the text has to be changed again.

Austerlitz -- 88.72.31.98 19:31, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

UAL Flight Attendant Scandal[edit]

I am planning to start a section that tells the story of Schuller paying an $1,100 fine and giving a public apology, as a plea bargain settlement to a Federal Offense charge that he "assaulted" a UAL flight attendant, during a flight to New York. The story is well-documented in the media, so I don't see any problem with violating the BLP rules. I would welcome comments on this talk page, by anyone interested in that aspect of Schuller's life. EditorASC (talk) 00:19, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: It was widely reported by the mainstream media and he did an interview on Larry King about it afterwards, etc., so it is not a BLP problem to include in the article, as long as the usual guidelines are followed: "let the facts speak for themselves" without editorializing, cite reliable sources, and avoid undue weight. Also, it would be preferred to refer to it as an "incident" or "settlement" rather than the highly charged word "scandal". JGHowes ^talk 02:22, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That is precisely the kind of commentary I was seeking. That helps my understanding of how to add such material, without running afoul of the BLP rules. Thanks very much for your quick response. EditorASC (talk) 09:17, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not retiring?[edit]

Apparently he's not retiring, according to his daughter. Here's the link. http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/scimedemail/la-me-schuller-retires-20100712,0,2324952.story 76.122.240.167 (talk) 11:13, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Bankruptcy[edit]

Radio news just said the CC has over $41M in debt it cannot pay and is being forced to sell property and lay off employees. Also, that Schuller gave a tearful, pleading sermon yesterday (age 85 now). Gotta feel sorry for him; after all those years of how God stands behind "possibility thinkers," it must be terribly humiliating to try to understand, much less explain to others, why God is now letting it all go down the drain... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.37.66.144 (talk) 17:02, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A link to some more information about the bankruptcy: http://www.ocregister.com/articles/schuller-327411-church-paid.html The writers of the Wikipedia article seem to be completely unaware of the role that Schuller has played in using his ministry to provide highly compensated employment for he and his family. Perhaps some movement of the article from hero worship towards a NPOV summary of the facts surrounding Schuller's life is in order. --Davefoc (talk) 06:44, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fake trip to China[edit]

Should this article include information about the fundraiser mailing produced at the direction of Schuller that included a story about a fictitious trip to China by Schuller?

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-04-29/news/mn-1512_1_robert-schuller

protection[edit]

Robert H. Schuller (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)[edit]

Semi-protect. High level of IP vandalism. Eastenra (This article had endemic and endless vandalism problems which multiple increasing periods of temporary protection have failed to stop.)Eastenra (talk) 12:20, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Publicity piece[edit]

Rev. Schuller's run in with the law, the China fraud, collapse of the ministry after he left (arguably due to his poor succession choices), and the sale of the Cathedral to the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange deserve to be mentioned here.

Typically a Wikipedia bio has a legacy section or what influence did this person have. It is appropriate to evaluate Schuller's work with such information.

No great man comes without a few blemishes. Schuller doesn't need to be whitewashed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.175.108.185 (talk) 22:44, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanup[edit]

I've added some sources and removed statements that were unsourced (or I cannot find a source after looking extensively). The overall article reads like PR copy. To keep the article in line with Wikipedia NPOV, several sections would require removal, or editing.MamaElmo (talk) 21:15, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Reverend[edit]

While the listed article is not a WP guideline, using the title in the infobox I should think would be OK. It would be incorrect in the lead itself.Unfriend13 (talk) 18:06, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. It is okay to include most styles and titles in info boxes but not okay for them to be included in the intro. The current issue was the removal of "The" before "Reverend" in the info box. In English it is grammatically correct to include "The" even though many people don't, often because they mistakenly think that "Reverend" is a title instead of a style. Another possible reason is because of the Roman Catholic origins of the style which, in its original Latin form, does not include a definite article so was written in documents as "Rev. John Smith". Anglicanus (talk) 23:58, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

- *nod* and I support your change (and should have said that clearly, sorry).Unfriend13 (talk) 00:17, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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gown?[edit]

"As a 6 month old infant, Schuller wore the gown on the day of his baptism"--is this a typo or does "wearing the gown" have a meaning? Avocats (talk) 01:22, 25 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 23 August 2017[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page already moved looks as though technical request was already carried out as uncontroversial, redundant template In ictu oculi (talk). In ictu oculi (talk) 12:11, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Robert H. Schuller → Robert Schuller – "Robert Schuller" redirects here, so clearly the elder Schuller (as opposed to his son Robert A. Schuller or grandson Bobby Schuller) is the primary topic of "Robert Schuller". Otherwise, "Robert Schuller" would be a disambiguation page.

Upon his passing, obituaries referred to him without the middle name, including the New York Times [1] and Orange County Register [2]. Arbor to SJ (talk) 04:47, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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