Talk:S!sters

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Eurovision

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Merger Proposal[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I think this should be merged into Sister (Sisters song). This duo was formed specifically for that one song, & they never worked together on any subsequent project. --LiamM32 (talk) 06:46, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You have already started one Merger discussion over at the Songs page. Having two is not appropriate. Anyways, Opppose per WP:NMUSIC and WP:GNG, Eurovision performers have been deemed notable.--BabbaQ (talk) 07:21, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I am closing this discussion as one is already taking place at the songs page.BabbaQ (talk) 22:08, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 23 February 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to S!sters. While the opponents quoted MOS:TMRULES, they seem to neglect its provision that unless a significant majority of reliable sources [...] consistently include the special character in the subject's name. Evidence by Yaksar and Asukite is compelling enough to support the move. There's also consensus that in this case disambiguator is unnecessary. No such user (talk) 07:54, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sisters (German duo) → S!sters (German duo) – It was never stylized like this, it was always S!sters. Europe2016 (talk) 19:10, 23 February 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 19:35, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Spelling it without a special character is not stylization. Grk1011 (talk) 20:37, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: if moved to S!sters, a disambiguator is probably not needed. HandsomeFella (talk) 23:14, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Please see MOS:TMSTYLE, and please read up on Wikipedia's Manual of Style before raising any future move requests. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 10:06, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Those guidelines tell us not to use invented names and stick only to ones that are in common use in reliable sources. I'm struggling to find evidence that the current name is at all in common use -- can anyone else? Otherwise, per the guidelines being cited, this would need to be moved.--Yaksar (let's chat) 23:35, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:BANDNAME and MOS:TMRULES. — Ætoms ^[talk] 10:34, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Question The nomination itself is lacking, and I see we have a number of !votes already opposing under our stylism guidelines. But our guidelines aren't just that we never are forbidden to use weird stylisms like this one regardless of usage -- it's that we default to our standards as long as usage in reliable sources is mixed and shows the "normal" one is clearly in use. That's why we have Pink (singer) and not P!nk, for example. Is that the case here though? At least from an initial skim, it appears to be pretty overwhelming, if not universal, that reliable English sources of all stripes are calling the subject S!isters. Unless we find otherwise, the oppose !votes are incorrect here and this would be a clear support.--Yaksar (let's chat) 17:05, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support Upon further research, the proposed name appears to be universally, or at least near-universally, used across English language sources of all stripes, from books to mainstream news to industry coverage. Therefore, using an unused invented name, even if it appears more "normal," both violates our naming policies and makes Wikipedia lose serious credibility by choosing to actively differ from what the band's name is both in official and reliable source usage contexts.--Yaksar (let's chat) 17:10, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I guess the very basic question we need to answer first is: what reliable English sources use the current name? Are there any? If the answer is not yes, then the guidelines cited in the above !votes clearly tell us to move the page away from the unused invented name.--Yaksar (let's chat) 02:30, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Yaksar: just to be clear, you prefer S!sters (German duo) rather than just S!sters? If so, could you explain why? Colin M (talk) 15:12, 8 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oh whoops, no, that's on me for looking more at the arguments than the nomination. The disambiguation would certainly not be needed, thanks for pinging me!--Yaksar (let's chat) 17:23, 8 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Weak support (rename to S!sters, no need for a dab here) - I'm leaning on Wikidata for this a bit, which shows that the majority of other wikis use "S!sters" (not that that means much, and puzzlingly the German one doesn't). One of the only English language sources I've found so far was Eurovoix, which was also from dewiki. Google news searches for "sisters" are a bit ambiguous, but there certainly is coverage for "S!sters", so comparing usage is a bit difficult here. ASUKITE 20:17, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for finding actual data, User:Asukite! I actually think that one Eurovoix mention may refer to the song, not the band -- in other articles, the outlet always refers to the band as S!sters (or sometimes S!ster), but they seem to regularly mess up and refer to the song as both "Sisters" and "Sister" (example, example. And in that article they first refer to the band as S!sters. But either way, it does look like the current name is exceedingly rare to never used, and therefore fails both the common name and specific stylism guidelines.--Yaksar (let's chat) 20:24, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I was referring to its use of "S!isters" as the band name. I thought at first it may have referred to the song but I noticed that too. I'm seeing that from looking through google news, I haven't found much evidence of the current name yet. ASUKITE 20:33, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support move to S!sters per evidence of RS usage described by Yaksar, and per Yaksar's explanation of how our policies on trademarks depends on use in RS. Colin M (talk) 15:17, 8 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose stylism not present in all reliable sources In ictu oculi (talk) 09:00, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Which?--Yaksar (let's chat) 13:11, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.