Talk:Sama–Bajaw languages

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Complete List of Sama-Bajaw Languages[edit]

When looking at this page I see that the complete list has been edited down to a smaller list of languages. This has occurred several times, so I want to find out if there is a good reason for it. These are the currently represented languages:

   Abaknon/Inabaknon, Sulu–Borneo: Bajaw ,Sama, Pangutaran Sama

In the past these were the languages:

   Sulu-Borneo languages: Mapun (sjm), Indonesian Bajau (bdl), West Coast Bajau (bdr)
   Inner Sulu Sama: Central Sinama (sml, Balangingi (sse), Southern Sinama (ssb), 
   Western Sulu Sinama: Sinama Pangutaran (slm)
   Other: Yakan (yka), Abaknon/Inabaknon (abx)

I am pretty sure this second list is how the linguists are defining the Sama-Bajaw Language Group. The ethnologue link that I included as a reference in my former post makes that clear. http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=1464-16

Please advise. Sinama-Webmaster (talk) 04:07, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnologue is not a reliable source. They get stuff off of websites or books from 50 years ago. You need to find what the researchers of these languages are saying. — kwami (talk) 09:46, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Kwami, I have only today seen this statement by you. To claim that Ethnologue is an unreliable source is unfounded. I know the information in this article from first hand experience. Ethnologue is just the best reputable source to prove it. It is updated yearly if I am not mistaken and mainly by field linguists. I am colleagues with those that provided the information from the Ethnologue on several of the Sinama languages. They are trained linguists and also fieldworkers who speak said languages. As the article stands it does not provide useful information for anyone trying to learn more about these languages. I propose undoing your reduction of the Sama-Bajaw languages.

Sinama-Webmaster (talk) 03:17, 10 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Then you should use those reputable sources for this article, and not rely on Ethnologue. No linguist will tell you Ethnologue is reliable -- there's often little reason to believe that a "language" listed in Ethnologue actually exists, for example, though they are improving. Glottolog is another general source, rather more reliable, and give a summary of the lit for each language. — kwami (talk) 20:51, 13 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Cut from Bajaw language[edit]

Removed the following from Bajaw language, as the topic is that of this article. — kwami (talk) 09:46, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Bajau languages are part of the Greater Barito languages, and can be classified into two groups:

Inabaknon/Abaknon/Capul Language (Eastern Visayas)
Sulu-Borneo languages (7 languages):

Borneo Coast Bajau:

Indonesian Bajau Language (East Sulawesi)
Sabah West Coast Bajau Language (Malaysia)
Mapun Language (Tawi-Tawi, Philippines)

Inner Sulu Sama:

Balangingi Language (Philippines)
Central Sama Language (Philippines)
Southern Sama Language (Philippines)
Pangutaran Sama Language (Sulu, Philippines)

The languages are called different names by its speakers. In fact, Bajau people do not refer to themselves as Bajau in their language, but as Sama, Simunul, and others (Mostly names of their place of origin). It was the British that labelled them collectively as Bajau (In Malaysia), for administrative purposes.

There exists at least 31 dialects that are spoken in Malaysia & the Philippines (Information on Indonesian Bajau Languages are not available):

Ubian (Sulu & Tawi-Tawi)
Sallogan
Sapa'
Sikubung
Sapa'-Sapa' (Tawi-Tawi)
Tando' Bas/Tandubas (Tawi-Tawi)
Basbas (Tawi-Tawi)
Tando'/Tandu Banak (Sibutu, Sabah)
Ungus Matata (Basilan)
Lo'ok Nato'/Luuk (Basilan)
Kohek/Kohec (Secubun, Sapa-Sapa, Tawi-Tawi)
Bannaran/Banaran (Sapa-Sapa, Tawi-Tawi)
Sitangkai (Tawi-Tawi)
Simunul (Tawi-Tawi)
Sibutu' (Tawi-Tawi)
Pangutaran (Sulu)
Siasi (Sulu)
Laminusa (Siasi, Sulu)
Nusa (South Ubian, Tawi-Tawi)
Larapan (Semporna, Sabah)
Musu' (Siasi, Sulu)
Manubal/Manubul (Pandami, Sulu)
Pala'u
Kota Belud (Western Sabah)
Sama (Western Sabah)
Sisangat (Siasi, Sulu)
Siamal
Tabawan (Lahad Datu, Sabah)
Kagayan/Kegayan (Sabah)
Banguingui/Bangingi'/Balangingi
Tatabuan/Tetabuan-Kaniogan (Sandakan, Sabah)

Final glottal stop[edit]

The article needs to adopt a common form for syllable-final glottal stops -- either the [q], the ['], or by eliding it. It is confusing to see multiple forms of the same words. (Note: I didn't notice elision in the article, but I've never encountered a Southern Sinama speaker who used any grapheme for a glottal stop ... you just have to know from context. Linguists and foreigners prefer the glottals to be written explicitly, for obvious reasons.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.214.237.72 (talk) 03:21, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Merging Sama language and Bajaw language into this article[edit]

Unless I am mistaken, it appears that there is no single "Sama language" nor a single "Bajaw language". It appears that different languages are either named "Sama" or "Bajaw". Based on this, it seems more appropriate to merge these two pagers here. Any thoughts? WikiEditor50 (talk) 13:33, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support. These two "languages" seem to largely match with the subbranches of Sama-Bajau in Ethnologue and Glottolog. So we could also move them to become subgroup articles. But then I am not very confident about these divisions (and Panguturan Sama clearly is distinct from the Sama lects in Sulu archipelago), and the terminology is weird ("Borneo Coast Bajau" comprises "Indonesian Bajau", which is however spoken all over eastern Indonesia). So yes, the best thing is to merge them as proposed. –Austronesier (talk) 18:14, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 09:41, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]