Talk:Single-ended signaling

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Misleading Statements[edit]

"SE is the SCSI standard" is not entirely correct, given that SCSI-3 SPI-2 (i.e. Ultra2, etc. SCSI) introduced Low-voltage differential (LVD) signaling. --AlastairIrvine (talk) 14:59, 12 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Odd statement[edit]

re single ended transmission... "This technique is less expensive to implement, but its limitations are that the signal cannot be transmitted over long distances or quickly"

I dont know why the writer thought that. Several GHz can be transmitted, and routinely is using stripboard and co-ax. As for distances, even in the 1800s single ended phone circuits were working distances amounting to a sizeable percentage of the US, ie 1000s of miles. So I'll remove the above statement. Tabby (talk) 22:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"SE is the SCSI standard, and viable cable lengths range from 1.5 meters to 3 meters."

... however the very short length limit has little to do with its single endedness.

crosstalk.... "This limits the bandwidth of single-ended signalling systems."

only in some cases, mainly where multiple parallel circuits are fed down ribbon cable and very high speeds are being attempted. For many apps its not the limiting factor at all, and makes no difference to circuit bandwidth. Tabby (talk) 22:33, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Connectors[edit]

@Gutten på Hemsen: Why have you removed the information on connectors from this page. These are indeed de facto standards in the audio world. I don't see why this is not relevant here. SpinningSpark 11:37, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@SpinningSpark: I agree it was a hasty decision and therefore I have restored the removed section. I do, however, believe that we should aim to improve this article as I find it somewhat lacking. One example is the section on standards. The reason I removed the mention of audio connectors in the first place is that connector type doesn’t determine the signaling scheme (and this is an article about a signaling scheme after all). A TS phone connector could be used with single-ended or differential signaling. What I believe is more accurate is that analog audio typically utilizes single-ended signaling (at least in the consumer sphere). Gutten på Hemsen (talk) 11:48, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That is true of course, but oftentimes a signalling scheme has certain connector types asscoiated with it. I could in principle use anything, even 12mm copper plumbing connectors, if I was so inclined. But that's not the point. The point is that what engineers and manufacturers commonly do to implement the scheme is relevant to this article. SpinningSpark 17:27, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@SpinningSpark: That’s a good point; you’ve convinced me. I’m thinking maybe the section could be restructured slightly to focus on the signaling standards and then include common connector types for said standard. So instead of “RCA connector for audio signals”, we could have “Analog audio which often utilizes RCA and Phones connectors”. Does this sound reasonable? Gutten på Hemsen (talk) 12:14, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good to me. SpinningSpark 19:56, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Disadvantages[edit]

The disadvantages in the intro to this article were not disadvantages of single-ended signaling, but rather unbalanced lines.

I’ve rewritten the paragraph to include actual disadvantages of single-ended signaling when compared to differential. Gutten på Hemsen (talk) 14:11, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Earth return telegraph[edit]

@SpinningSpark: Is it important to the telegraph example that they at one point used earth return lines? Wasn’t telegraph single-ended even earlier when they used another conductor for the return?

To be clear, I definitely think telegraph is a good example of single-ended transmission and it should not be removed from the list of examples, but I would like to know why the earth return variety is any more relevant than two conductor telegraph in this instance. Gutten på Hemsen (talk) 11:26, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You are right that single-ended telegraph does not have to be earth return. But I think the point is that earth return was hugely economically significant and can only be done with single-ended signalling. Thus it is an important historical example. Earlier systems, before the development of commercial telegraphy and large networks, were often isolated single circuits. For an isolated circuit, it is not possible to distinguish between single-ended and differential. Yes, you can designate one conductor as the common, but if the circuit is isolated that is still identical to the differential case. True single-ended only becomes possible at the point of development when multiple circuits are run along the same line. Then use of a common return conductor becomes possible. Even so, some early systems were intrinsically differential and impossible to implement single-ended. Examples of this are the Cooke and Wheatstone five-wire system, and even earlier, Sömmerring's electrochemical telegraph (although the latter was only ever an experimental construction). SpinningSpark 10:21, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the thorough explanation! You have me convinced :-) Gutten på Hemsen (talk) 02:18, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]