Talk:Slide (musical ornament)

This article was nominated for deletion on 24 January 2012. The result of the discussion was keep.

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Comments[edit]

Is someone on a vendetta? This information is of value to musicians. The French Wikipedia has an article around 3 times the size of this one.

Instead of deleting information, consider merging it to another article an leaving a redirect. --Uncle Ed (talk) 20:08, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If the French Wikipedia jumped off a bridge, we wouldn't follow it. If the French Wikipedia has reliable sources, feel free to add them here. If not (it has zero sources), that's no help. Two sources on two different subjects does not equal an article on the English Wikipedia. - SummerPhD (talk) 00:40, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and no, don't merge one random quote about the ornament and the unrelated bit (fully half of the sources...) about a German late-medieval dance form in 3/4 metre. - SummerPhD (talk) 01:17, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your efforts to improve this article. I agree that the 3/4 time dance isn't relevant to an article about a musical ornament which is more like a trill. --Uncle Ed (talk) 05:45, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming article: Slide (music)[edit]

In my attempt to beef up this article in order to avoid deletion, I notice that numerous authors call it by its English name: Slide. So I propose to rename the article Slide (music). Currently, that name gives a redirect to Legato without further explanation. I will deactivate the redirect. If no one objects, I'll do this in a few days. -- kosboot (talk) 18:26, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, in all the furor over whether the thing itself is worthy of a standalone article, I almost forget what it meant. Isn't it related to glissando, too? --Uncle Ed (talk) 19:03, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, no. The Schliefer is a specific ornament used predominantly in Baroque music. It's not the same as glissando, or legato. -- kosboot (talk) 20:38, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about an ornament that is neither a slide (nor a turn, nor a grupetto...) nor a German folk dance. Yeah, if we completely re-write the article so that it's about something else (preferably something notable) and rename it to match the new topic, I suppose we could then keep the article, preserving Ed's edit count and article's created count. Failing that, it's a still-born article about two non-notable topics and should be deleted as such. - SummerPhD (talk) 21:31, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Grove, Neumann and other treatises all consider Schleifer to be the Slide. Why do you think it is not? -- kosboot (talk) 21:37, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, seems our four sentence perma-stub contradicts itself. Does this connect two notes (as a slide does) or does it instruct the musician to start one or two steps below the marked note, independent of the preceding note, with a trill at the end?

Tastes great, less filling AND a German folk dance... - SummerPhD (talk) 00:54, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, who are you kidding? It was never going to remain a permanent stub. It just needed some clean up. I hope you will not persist in using AfD for clean-up. And the German folk dance was already taken out, with a nice pre-article italic link by Hrafn. --Uncle Ed (talk) 00:15, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This article was a stub for four years. Yes, I use AfD to "clean up" unsourced, useless stubs and quote farms. (Incidentally, there is a German folk dance with the same name.) If you have a problem with my editing, this is not the place to discuss it. You should know that. - SummerPhD (talk) 02:20, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Notation picture[edit]

The "hand-written" image looks rather cool, but most people don't look at hand-written scores. What does the notation look like in a modern score? Thanks DavidRF (talk) 21:33, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, the image issue is a major one, since there are several symbols for a slide, and there are several ways to execute it. I'm hunting for some public domain examples. -- kosboot (talk) 01:52, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Differentiate[edit]

Should it be mentioned that this ornament is different from the gruppetto/turn? And shouldn't all the interwiki links pointing to that term in other Wikipedias be removed? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:02, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. As SummerPhD was saying above, this musical ornament should not be confused with grupetto nor trino, nor anything else; and it seems the misconception is spread over more wikis. I already changed the interwiki link from the article in Spanish about gruppeto, because it was pointing here. I'll check if there is an appropiate article in Spanish for slide or schleifer; but if not, these links to other wikipedias should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isacdaavid (talk • contribs) 02:04, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It is different, but according to at least CPE Bach and Türk (and maybe others who I can't remember), it is very similar. CPE Bach's symbol for the slide is a horizontal turn sign. But it would work to untangle the difference. -- kosboot (talk) 02:32, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nice.--Isacdaavid (talk) 03:43, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The picture is rotated 180°. The squiggle should be at the bottom left. See for instance the start of the slow movement of JS Bach's organ sonata BWV 525. You can download a facsimile of Bach's manuscript and of the Bach Gesellschaft edition at IMSLP to verify this. Orlp (talk) 20:19, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the main picture is correct - note the "tail" at the beginning. I've seen it that way in some (definitely not all) sources. I'd prefer a different picture, since so many sources use different symbols. -- kosboot (talk) 20:26, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect interwiki links[edit]

There seems to be a large number of interwiki links. With one exception, they're all wrong - they're mean to link to the turn, not the slide. If someone knows how to stop the bots, stop them. -- kosboot (talk) 03:35, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Schleifer[edit]

Schleifer is now a disambiguation page. I am unsure about a hatnote or a Wikilink here, so I will leave it to other editors.--DThomsen8 (talk) 12:46, 30 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Quilisma[edit]

Why does the picture of the Schleifer look exactly like the St. Gall quilisma of 9th- to 12th-century Gregorian chant? This question needs to be probed. If the Schleifer did not originate from the quilisma, then here is a bizarre coincidence: The most supported interpretation of the quilisma by the evidence is a rising slide, and both symbols are allegedly peri-German in origin. Coemgenuslcp (talk) 17:11, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]