Talk:Solar vehicle

Lede of article

I removed two sentences from the lede of the article. They read: "They run by the suns energy. Solar vehicles will go up to 80 mph." Of these, the first sentence is redundant; earlier sentences in the article make clear that a 'solar vehicle' runs on the sun's energy. The second sentence is false. Solar vehicles, especially race vehicles, have traveled faster than 80 mph, and there is no reason to think that solar vehicles built in the future would necessarily be limited to this speed. Besides, there is no source attributed to the 80mph statistic quoted. Bry9000 (talk) 06:22, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

x-x- Just did a correction on the Solar Taxi. Louis did a fantastic job driving the Solar Taxi and deserve a lot of credit and recognition for an electric vehicle. Solar Taxi is not a solar car, it is an Electric Vehicle with SOLAR ASSIST. A trully solar car only use energy it can harvest from its own solar array. Solar Taxi puggled every night. The claim that was a large solar array in Germany by Q-Cell was a good marketing guimik and an insult to the solar car community. Vehicles competing at WSC, NASC and XOF1 are only fueled by solar energy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.206.23.177 (talk) 03:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Categories

Solar Car

"Solar car" is a category commonly associated with race vehicles designed and raced in one of several competitions including the World Solar Challenge, North American Solar Challenge and many regional races. Tens of thousands of people have been involved in designing, building and racing hundreds of these cars over two decades. There are numerous other categories of solar powered vehicles including solar powered bicycles, boats and planes.

I recommend a parent category "Solar Powered Vehicles" with three multiple categories for cars, bicycles and planes (instead of renaming this page).

FN 01:36, 5 May 2007 (UTC)fnazeeri

Don't forget solar boats, the most practical solar vehicles of them all. --Theosch 16:28, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

The article on Solar Cars needs a mention of the potential for hybrid electric vehicles to utilize solar power as an additional source of battery charging and to extend the range while driving. The UltraCommuter is concept hybrid that does just that.

Most passanger vehicles don't have enough surface area to benefit from the additional energy that could be captured by a PV array on the vehicle. Even under ideal conditions only about 1 mile could be gained by a BEV that consumes .2 to .4 kWh per mile. A far better idea would be to install a larger stationary grid-tied PV array at home, perhaps with a tracking system, such that it could produce a few kWh per day to suppliment the charging of a BEV at night while providing grid power durring the day when it's needed most. This also eliminated the need for a stationary battery to home, instead it could be located in the car and used daily for commuting to work or such. Not that I'm opposed to using PVs on a more effecient lightweight type EV or for technology proving purposes as they are currently. --D0li0 12:03, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

I might also update the article to be named Solar Vehicles, unless that category is too broad as it could include anything from solar powered aircraft to the mars rovers.

Sounds like a good idea most of the other similar articles are named something Vechicle. --D0li0 12:03, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

solar car

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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Why are solar cars not being marketed and commercialized? Rahul Cost of electric cars plus costs of solar panels ? (solar cell makers are a oligopoly) --Altermike 20:27, 1 May 2007 (UTC) Solar cars are primarily technology demonstration vehicles for PV, Motors, composite materials, and aerodynamics design. So they aren't marketed and commercialized because you can not collect enough energy via PV given the surface area, weight, and creature comforts of a normal cars, you would only collect about 1 mile worth of energy per day under ideal conditions. Better to install a larger quantity of PV in a fixed/tracking stationary location (like on your homes roof), such that you can collect enough power to run your home and offset the fuel costs for your (non-PV) battery electric vehicle (which you can't easily buy, yet)... --D0li0 03:38, 2 May 2007 (UTC) Because the tech just isn't there yet to make them viable. Plus, with maybe 1kW of useful sunlight falling on each square metre even at noon in tropical-desert climates, you need quite a large surface area to get a useful average charging power even if you had 100% efficiency (compared to a current, best-commercially-available figure of about 15%). Something like a large but light-framed, boxy van may have 10 sq mtr of usable panel space. Say you're somewhere with 12 hours of guaranteed, cloud free sunlight. Get the total insolation by RMS, so roughly 71% of 120kWh = 85kWh falling on it (not bad, enough to travel for 4 hours at approx 65mph on sun alone without any batteries, assuming good aerodynamics for something with that cross-sectional and frictional area). But then consider the efficiency... and you have about 12.5kWh daily. Maybe an hour at 55mph, two at 40, or thirty minutes at 77mph, which even my small bike with its 2-gallon tank (takes about 20 seconds to fill) can sustain for about two hours. And rememeber this is under ideal weather conditions, with a large, ideally-aerodynamic vehicle, idealised traffic and geography, etc. I don't even consider a BEV that will get me 80 miles IF I travel slowly (or 50 if I keep up with traffic) super practical - and that's something that can be reliably charged, every night, in about 4-5 hours (late night, early start) from a UK household power socket. Factor in the typical weather and variable "raw" sunlight availability in a temperate climate, that few people will want to buy what is essentially an underpowered, square-edged delivery van for day-to-day use, the incompatibility of aero with panel positioning, hills, building/hill/foliage shadows, snowfall, traffic etc and you've got a vehicle that may well leave you with an impractically short range many days... unless you also keep it plugged in on charge. You certainly couldn't use it WITHOUT batteries, unless you're committed to some serious flexitime (when's the best sunlight? midday, when you're at work. when's it get dark? commuting time), and basically taking three months off in winter. It may be useful to save a little on charging bills and show committment to the environment, but right now, it'd be stupidly expensive. BEVs are themselves overpriced next to ICEs, and unless you keep it for a very long time, drive near to the max range each day, and have good luck with the battery wear, you won't actually recoup the extra cost even with european fuel prices. Solar panels have something like a TEN YEAR break-even return on investment when you look at their install cost vs the saving made against domestic power - and that's the bulky, best possible power:cost ratio roof-install ones, not sleek slimline vehicle-suitable models. Put the two together and you've got a battery-solar car that you have to keep about fifteen years just to make it a financially sensible choice vs a BRAND NEW fossil powered one. I tell you now, I couldn't afford it - I have always had to buy used, and never spent more than a third of the purchase price of what is currently the cheapest dealer-retail car (on something that would have been considerably more expensive in the first place). I went for a used motorcycle because, running the maths for purchase, upkeep, fuel, gear and tuition, it'd still be something like a 3 year ROI, and after that, solid savings because just 1500 miles (about 4 fills in the car, or 6 working weeks) of 2 wheeled travel is enough to pay for the insurance, tax, safety test and basic maintenance. 10+ years would be a fools game, because there's no reasonable guarantee I'd still be alive, working or living in the same place, etc... THAT'S why it hasn't yet been commercialised. The technology isn't good enough for practical real world use, or cheap enough that anyone in their right mind would buy it. It simply wouldn't be worth the effort. Maybe when some of the endlessly-promised high efficiency (30+ percent conversion) panels and high-capacity batteries come along, and the economies of scale from leaseable city-electrics and rooftop solar kick in, the story will start changing. If you could, say, have enough onboard charge capacity that the panels help juice up the batteries - or do it all by themselves at the weekend - and then suffer a net discharge over the week (similar to filling the tank whilst shopping on saturday), being almost depleted on friday, you could get away with light usage without having to plug in OR use fossil fuels. But that day's a few years off. And, being relatively poor, and doing 40+ miles on a typical day (never mind the atypical ones where I might do 100 or more, or even 300 in extreme cases), it won't be for me for a few years after. 193.63.174.10 (talk) 10:59, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Graffiti

Any ideas why this page is vandalized so frequently? It seems a pretty harmless topic, but attracts a lot of vandals. Is this normal? FN 01:52, 6 March 2007 (UTC)fnazeeri

They are petro-vandals --Altermike 20:27, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

vandals

I believe that it is perfectly normal for randoms to vandalize innocent web sites. If need be, they should be encouraged to vandalize. P.S. try the veal. --jon666 06:33, 2 May 2007 (UTC)ass for pepole

Proposed Name Change: robert

Actually Solar Vehicles are manufactured and distributed. They are called Cruise cars! You may know them Golf Carts however thanks to NHTSA (National Highway Transportation Safety Administration) and their new ruling of LSV'S (Low-speed-vehicles) you can now own a street legal and nationally distributed Solar/Electric Vehicle. They are offered in 2 to 14 capacity seating with many ad-on's and extras. Travel between 20 to 25 miles per hour. Are equipped with Headlights, taillights, turn signals, rear view mirrors and seat belts. The solar panels are designed to last up to twenty years!

Here's how it works: Think of the batteries in a Golf Car or Electric Vehicles as the gas tank in your automobile. When full, you have 150 gallons of fuel or amps. Let's say you use 50 gallons or amps in a day of driving. On a clear and sunny day, the Solar Top will replenish 12 gallons or amps in the winter when days are shorter and 18 gallons or amps in the summer when the days are longer. If you don't drive the vehicle for 3 days and you park it in the sun, the Sunray Solar Top will generate 36 gallons of fuel or amps in the winter and 54 gallons or amps in the summer. So, in effect, you would fill your tank in 3 days.

As you see more and more manufactures getting in the game with electric vehicles solar will be playing a big part. Now the big three are getting involved and with the gas crunch things will happen a lot faster. Until then there's always Cruise Car, Inc. (http://www.cruisecarinc.com)Cruisecarinc 17:58, 4 May 2007 (UTC)cruisecarCruisecarinc 17:58, 4 May 2007 (UTC)!

Thank you for the information. On the other hand, I suggest change the name of the article to solar vehicle, as proposed. --HybridBoy 19:00, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

cruisecarinc.com looks like a Golf cart or perhaps ‎Neighborhood electric vehicle per the LSV regulations, I suppose because they are equipped with PV roofs the might be mentioned here in this article. Now to the point of this section, I'm not sure that Solar vehicle would be a better title as this article which focuses primarily on cars, as opposed to planes or boats which can also be solar powered and are vehicles. But then again the line is a little blurry between Car ie:Automobile and Vehicle with regards to other articles names... --D0li0 09:20, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I vote Negative: I believe that based on the content of this article, if any name change should be made, it should be something along the lines of "Solar Race Cars/Vehicles". A separate article for "Solar Vehicles", i.e. the more commercially viable sort would be logical as well. ~Gertlex 18:00, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

No. Rememember there are also solar airplanes and solar space vehicles. 199.125.109.127 03:26, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

True... this article refers soly to cars. Someone else has taken the initiative and removed the name change template. More nay votes than yay. Case closed, methinks. ~Gertlex 16:31, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Nice advertisement, but I'd rather buy my electric golf buggy from someone who doesn't think that it's battery gets full of "amps"... (even if you actually meant amp-hours, the figure is meaningless without knowing the voltage, and therefore the total watt-hour storage - which, if we're credulous, gives a potential range figure, assuming you get a similar 200-300Wh/mile efficiency as everyone else. My car's starter & accessory battery holds 65Ah after all). Oh, and how far will that "tank that takes 3 days to fill" (in summer) take me, at all of 25mph? Rename the article to suit your company trademark, I think not. 193.63.174.10 (talk) 11:15, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I have proposed a split of the article, as set forth below. Bry9000 (talk) 21:13, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

"Electrical system" needs more information

Mentions voltages , but not (in numbers) current, power, wiring gauge/type , peaks, averages. amper hours of the batteries.

Link to a NZ site is questionable, as it is selling Raztec sensors.

And it does not say how as in with what kind/type of electronics the on board computer controls power use.--Mark v1.0 18:18, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

A lot of this information varies quite a bit. Furthermore, many teams keep a lot of these details largely non-public. I believe the World Solar Challenge article mentions the battery capacity limit (and it probably was different for the two classes of cars in the most recent race). Ultimately, these are details that you're not going to get a lot useful information on. ~Gertlex 01:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Races section

I have reorganized this section, and I propose to move the details of the 2005 race, and most details of the 2008 new NASC sponsorship, to the North American Solar Challenge page.Bry9000 02:20, 1 December 2007 (UTC) Done. Bry9000 (talk) 21:14, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Proposed article split

I propose to split this article into two: Solar vehicle and Solar car racing, with the latter as the sub-article. Right now, the former category describes general applications of solar power for powering all vehicles, including bikes, planes, and cars, and it need not be limited to photovoltaics. The latter category is a specific type of vehicle and event all its own. Bry9000 (talk) 20:00, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

No one has commented for two weeks, so I split the article. All of the technical details from this article are on the new Solar car racing page. Please don't revert my changes before discussing them here. Bry9000 (talk) 04:42, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Off-topic

Discussion page structure

This discussion lacks structure and is unreadable. Therefore I can't be bothered to try to discuss how other than race solar cars fit into the picture. Discussion can't be a list of opinions but a category of subjects. Teemu Ruskeepää (talk) 09:03, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Solar vehicle not category/vehicle on its own

A "solar vehicle" is not category/vehicle on its own. Please discard the category and page and merge it into the electric vehicle or battery electric vehicle category/page.

Thanks. KVDP (talk) 16:11, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree. These three pages are confusing: green vehicles, electric cars, solar cars. And no page answers the question: "What types of solar/electric/oxygen powered/etc car exist now in the world?" Which seems to me as one of the most important questions in this section. I can help with examples and pictures of solar cars, but I am not sure where to put them...Electric cars? or here 3DRivers (talk) 11:46, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Popular Culture

Is there a place for solar energy in popular culture in this article ? Or does this belong in the specific articles (i.e. solar sail) Solar vehicles have obviously captured the popular imagination of inventors and science fiction writers. But the reason I mention it is that much of the concept behind the 1980s anime The Mysterious Cities of Gold was the use of the sun for energy by the ancient civilisations (Maya and Incas) including some really interesting concepts of solar boats and solar aircraft. --EvenGreenerFish (talk) 02:23, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Panel lifetime

30 years eh ... not bad. Never actually thought of a solid state thing such as that having a particular lifetime, but if LEDs can slowly dim and burn out, and transistors too, why not PVs. Sad that it may mean the "death" of many future classics (should solar vehicles become practical) thanks to their original panels wearing out... either upgrade to a modern, probably different-looking equivalent (in, say, 2060), or leave it as a stationary exhibit somewhere with the old ones in situ. Still, few vehicles actually last that long anyway.

It does help answer some of my potential queries as regards home solar though. It takes about 10 years (at current panel and domestic electricity costs) to break even on your purchase. So the lifetime cost of a solar panel is actually minus twice that of its purchase price. IE if you're prepared to make a very long term investment (buy them at the same time as taking out a mortgage?), they'll repay it twice over. Not bad. If they stay the course and no other factors change ;)

Heck, even when you DO have to replace them, all things being equal, you're still 1x the original price in profit after that. It makes a compelling argument, if you are confident you won't be moving, for installing a great surplus of the things and selling the extra power back to the grid. More risk, more potential profit. Shove the proceeds into an early mortgage repayment fund.

However, how many of us keep the same car for 10 years? 193.63.174.10 (talk) 11:23, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

merge this page into pv in transport

There's plenty of complementary material between the two articles putting them together would get the article closer to critical mass. This article has general material on PV best discussed in the general page Photovoltaics.Oldboltonian (talk) 15:02, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Solar vehicle and solar-charged EV not the same

I would like to reiterate what a couple of others have already noted: There is a decided difference between a solar vehicle and a solar-charged electric vehicle -- in most cases.

A solar vehicle has on-board solar panels that power that vehicle 100 percent, for instance the PlanetSolar boat making its way around the world, the Solar Impulse plane that's preparing to fly around the world, and, of course, the innumerable MIT-like solar vehicles that compete in various solar vehicle races around the world.

In contrast, a solar-charged vehicle is a vehicle that has onboard batteries that have been charged with solar electricity generated off-board the vehicle. Of course, there are hybrids of the two -- vehicles that have solar panels on them, but whose solar panels are not enough to power the vehicle by themselves and therefore require additional electricity from an outside source, which could be a solar array on a house, building, solar carport, etc.

If this article must be merged -- and I don't necessarily feel it must be -- I would agree that PV in transport would be the best place for it. But, of course, that would potentially somewhat bury the electric vehicle component that is foregrounded here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cbdh19 (talk • contribs) 02:24, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree. Solar-charged vehicle are a completely different subject matter. Marcus Qwertyus 02:47, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree too. I am removing the merge tag.-Mariordo (talk) 21:03, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Auxiliary power

A zillion yacht owners worldwide use solar panels to charge their batteries. Is every tom, dick and harry who does the same on their car going to get an entry in this article? I vote not, unless it is declared to be a notable achievement by an RS.Greglocock (talk) 23:06, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

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A Man's got to know his Limitations

We had a section called limitations. Apparently it wasn't very good. But, Shirley, it would be worth having a section like that?Greglocock (talk) 02:05, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Futile addition of photos electric car charging stations to this article.

Perhaps the two IP editors (or any others) who wish to add these photos should describe their reasons here. Otherwise I'll continue to delete them. Using my crystal ball eventually somebody will get annoyed and the Perth and Adelaide IPs will probably get blocked. It is no skin off my nose. Greglocock (talk) 01:51, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

• These editors (or maybe it's just one editor) have been using many different IP addresses to add pointless content to many pages, I know some of their previous IP addresses have been blocked before. Jakendx832 (talk) 03:03, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

• No skin off mine either. You conveniently ignore good contributions to other pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.178.163.8 (talk) 03:08, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

• • I looked at your contributions and they're mostly unhelpful. If you're going to make so many edits then get your own account. Jakendx832 (talk) 14:36, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

• • A lot of the edits are quite okay. Especially when it comes to adding sources or fixing mistakes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.150.30.211 (talk) 09:19, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Semi-protected three days. Looking at the history, I see that there are concerns that the images can be construed as advertising. IP, can you please address these concerns instead of simply reverting? --NeilN ^{talk to me} 04:49, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

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