Talk:St. Thomas More Collegiate

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Removal of history content - please discuss[edit]

Good day. Please do not remove large sections of historical content that relates to this article with no explanation. This is factual and referenced material. I invite you to share thoughts on the matter here. I am refering to this text, which has been removed a few times with no explanation:

"In the 1990s, criminal proceedings began against members of the Christian Brothers in Newfoundland, several of whom were teaching at STMC (Edward French, Joseph Burke, Edward English, and Kevin Short.[1] The proceedings were based on allegations of sexual and physical abuse against boys at the Mount Cashel Orphanage. It was alleged that the Brothers were allowed to escape prosecution at the time (1980s) if they left Newfoundland.[2] The subsequent lawsuits by victims of the Christian Brothers organization threatened to close the school in 2004.[citation needed] The story received considerable press coverage and was covered as widely as in Pakistan.[3]"

Thanks, Hu Gadarn (talk) 17:23, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • I see that anon user 216.232.59.112 has made the same revert with no explanation or edit summary. Can you please explain your rerasoning? Thanks, Hu Gadarn (talk) 22:24, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The same user has again removed the content and now (oddly) removed the entire text from this "discussion" tab (which i have restored).. Hu Gadarn (talk) 23:47, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi folks - I see that someone again deleted this section with no explanation. Please discuss here. This is an important, albeit difficult, time in the school's history. It needs to be captured here as much as any significant piece of history. I welcome your thoughts. Thanks, Hu Gadarn (talk) 04:57, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

edits[edit]

Removed names about accused working at STMC.

  • citation mentioned, says nothing of the sort. In fact, It doesn't mention STMC or Mount Cashel. Proper citation needed.
  • Joseph Burke conviction was overturned. In other words 'Not Guilty'. Should not use this name.

Removed section about alleged brother's were allowed to leave Newfoundland.

  • citation used, also dosen't state this fact.
  • This is an allegation, not a fact.
  • This has nothing to do with STMC's school history.

Removed section of covered as far as Pakistan.

  • Not relevent to the schools history.
  • News article is dated 2002 and section stated the 'threatened to close the school 2004'. Pakistan News doesn't read the future.

Moved citation from Pakistan News.

  • Can be used to, show how the lawsuits threatened the school.

Moved paragraph to section called 'Notes'

I left parts of your contributions, because they are true. But you need to provide proper citations. Your contribution seems bias. Wikipedia needs to provide a neutral point of view.

Also, I noticed that you started the articles on Kevin Short, Edward French, & Edward English at the same time and same information. I will edit your article on Joseph Burke. The reason being that his conviction was overturned.

It is unfortunate that these abuses happened. But STMC form BC is not responsible for what happened in Mount Cashel in Newfoundland. But like the victim's of Mount Cashel, STMC is also a victim of the actions of these brother's. I hope you can see this.

I've been as fair and respectfull as possible in editing this article.Iota 9 (talk) 18:51, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think you should declare your personal interest in the above. Do you have any connections whatsoever with the institution or the people concerned because the above remarks certainly convey that impression. This would enable other editors to decide if you have broken Wikipedia's rules on providing a Neutral Point of View in its articles.--Jtomlin1uk (talk) 19:08, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I do believe this story needs to be told. But not through STMC's history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iota 9 (talk • contribs) 19:17, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's not answered my previous question. Do YOU have any connection with the institution?--Jtomlin1uk (talk) 07:44, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, I do not have any connections to the institution.

  • I, never contributed finacially to STMC
  • I, don't have any children who are, or have been, at STMC
  • I, was never a student at STMC
  • I, don't teach at STMC
  • I, am not employed at STMC, or by STMC
  • I, am not related to Kevin Short, Edward English, Edward French, or Joseph Burke.
  • I, am not a Christian Brother
  • I, am not part of the Catholic clergy
  • I, do not have any connections with Mount Cashel ophanage, in any way, shape or form.

I hope this answers your question. In good faith, Iota 9 (talk) 17:24, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    • Wow - someone added an explanation on the diuscussion page instead of just removing the text. Thank you for this. I will remove my text (which I just (re)added) until I can find appropriate references. That said, this *is* an important part of the school's history - it was frequently in the news (print and TV) during this period and covered widely. Some convictions were overturned - not all were - some of the brothers were sentenced to prison. Ultimately though the convicons are less important than the class action lawsuit launched against the Christian Brothers, which threatened to result in the sale of the STM. Again, I will revert the text now (to remove mine), find appropriate references and then re-add this material. Thanks, Hu Gadarn (talk) 05:02, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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